327 replies to this topic

[Hrishi]

Some more options for ignoring MDEF are needed if Warlocks are ever going to compete on even terms in WoE and MVP'ing.MDEF on MVPs is especially ridiculous.

This, seriously. And piercing staff is beyond useless to bypass the MDEF. Should allow Tetra Vortex to bypass MDEF entirely for Warlocks to really compete in MvPing. Maybe a "fake-freezing" effect from Frost Misty so that Jack Frost deals full damage to MvPs.

[BradleyRyan]

Crimson Rock shouldn't stun other players in a PvM environment. It's already bad enough when a warlock ks me but getting stun on top of that is kinda annoying.

[Mwrip]

Crimson Rock shouldn't stun other players in a PvM environment. It's already bad enough when a warlock ks me but getting stun on top of that is kinda annoying.

That's a bug, but I think kRO just fixed it, so we'll get the fix in 2012.

[LethalJokeChar]

It seems wizard skills actually need to have their cast times decreased, seeing as, overall, warlock skills are more devastating, bypass magnetic earth, AND ironically some have shorter cast times. Wizards even have lower stat cap and gear selection...

Also, stone curse is broken. The 2nd (dark) phase where the target is unable to do anything and earth property only lasts for like .1 seconds. Its base time needs to be 9 + skillLv seconds again, and not ridiculously reduced by... god knows what.

Edited by LethalJokeChar, 24 November 2010 - 08:14 PM.

[LethalJokeChar]

I have another suggestion for the warlock/wizard branch, when thinking of how ranger/hunter traps have been vastly improved. These things are DEADLY now. It's basically massive physical damage of a certain property which ignores DEF. It would be nice to see fire pillar with similar lethality. After all, it is a "magical trap". It just has some current issues with being able to stack on itself and not costing bgems.

[Kaijou]

This isn't just exclusive to the Warlock class, but there's issues with the #1-9 macro keys and separate private message windows. I've also posted this over to suggestions but being as this seems to effect Warlocks more I'll post it here as well.

I'm one of those players that doesn't put PM's through the regular chat, and would rather have the window pop up so I don't miss people.

The current problem with this is since renewal and the implementation of the new macro system around the 1-9 key area. When a window comes up, the macros are deselected, and the only way to reactivate the 1-9 macro keys is to mouse over and close the message window. This is absolutely infuriating and problematic when it occurs in the middle of a mob, pvp, or WoE.

It may not be a huge problem for melee users, but for magic users this completely cripples us.

[Rishelle]

The Warlocks Jack Frost needs to seriously be reassessed. KSing is supposed to be illegal but if you have a Warlock using that on the map.. You are going to get ks'd no matter what. Some don't do it on purpose but I think most do, using other players to hold monsters for them (w/o them knowing) then casting just so they can get more kills. Also the all but instant cast of that skill makes it impossible to move your kill/s out of Frost's range.. especially since it kills everything for several screens beyond where the Lock is at.

It's a nice skill.. Would hate to see it actually be gotten rid of but maybe cut the area of attack down to say a 6x6 cell and give it a slightly longer cast time (2 sec fixed cast would be plenty) to reduce unintentional ksing and giving time for ppl to move their kills should a lock purposefully try to ks you.

I play a wiz.. well not as much anymore since HW's, let alone lowly wiz's are pretty much useless now.. but I would still love to get her up to a warlock and be able to use that skill.. However I do NOT want to have to constantly worry about ksing ppl because of it.. Right now the skill is impossible to use "legally" without ksing unless you're on the map by yourself or the only other ones are in a party with you.

[Trixdee]

Their passive skill Radius has made the new AoE's huge. Maybe adjust it so it does not hit monsters in a set distance?

Edited by Trixdee, 28 November 2010 - 01:20 PM.

[Caelum]

maybe cut the area of attack down to say a 6x6 cell and give it a slightly longer cast time (2 sec fixed cast would be plenty) to reduce unintentional ksing and giving time for ppl to move their kills should a lock purposefully try to ks you.

Lolwut? Warlocks, Mechanics, and Rangers are already the 3 most underdog classes in RO...and you want to make one of them worse? Here's a pro-tip, if people are tired of Locks KSing you (either purposely or accidentally) try partying with them and use their range to your own advantage instead of complaining about it.

Locks have the lowest HP mod, lowest survivability, the weakest offensive power (since MATK was nerfed to useless levels)...their only compensation was increased range. You take that away then what's the point of playing the class?

Their passive skill Radius has made the new AoE's huge. Maybe adjust it so it does not hit monsters in a set distance?

Radius doesn't increase the size of each AoE. What it does do is increase the range that a skill can be cast. For instance, if I was going to cast CR on a player, Radius would increase how far that player can stand and I could still cast it on him. This applies to AoEs like Comet (not the area of effect of Comet...but how far I can click to cast it). It doesn't have any effect on JF or FM as they are self-centered skills.

[Mwrip]

The Warlocks Jack Frost needs to seriously be reassessed. KSing is supposed to be illegal but if you have a Warlock using that on the map.. You are going to get ks'd no matter what. Some don't do it on purpose but I think most do, using other players to hold monsters for them (w/o them knowing) then casting just so they can get more kills. Also the all but instant cast of that skill makes it impossible to move your kill/s out of Frost's range.. especially since it kills everything for several screens beyond where the Lock is at.

It's a nice skill.. Would hate to see it actually be gotten rid of but maybe cut the area of attack down to say a 6x6 cell and give it a slightly longer cast time (2 sec fixed cast would be plenty) to reduce unintentional ksing and giving time for ppl to move their kills should a lock purposefully try to ks you.

I play a wiz.. well not as much anymore since HW's, let alone lowly wiz's are pretty much useless now.. but I would still love to get her up to a warlock and be able to use that skill.. However I do NOT want to have to constantly worry about ksing ppl because of it.. Right now the skill is impossible to use "legally" without ksing unless you're on the map by yourself or the only other ones are in a party with you.

Why would you EVER cast this at 6x6? Yeah, let's use a 2 skill combo that does less damage than a crimson rock, with a smaller radius, and takes twice the skill points. Very useful.

The ONLY value of this skill is its range. Would you use a 6x6 LoV over any other wiz attack, even HD? No.

Locks already suck. This is one of the only skills that makes them even remotely viable in PvM. Normal skills kill at about 1/4 of melee speed, this can go up to about 1/2... maybe... if the map isn't crowded.

[Rishelle]

Lolwut? Warlocks, Mechanics, and Rangers are already the 3 most underdog classes in RO...and you want to make one of them worse? Here's a pro-tip, if people are tired of Locks KSing you (either purposely or accidentally) try partying with them and use their range to your own advantage instead of complaining about it.

Locks have the lowest HP mod, lowest survivability, the weakest offensive power (since MATK was nerfed to useless levels)...their only compensation was increased range. You take that away then what's the point of playing the class?



Radius doesn't increase the size of each AoE. What it does do is increase the range that a skill can be cast. For instance, if I was going to cast CR on a player, Radius would increase how far that player can stand and I could still cast it on him. This applies to AoEs like Comet (not the area of effect of Comet...but how far I can click to cast it). It doesn't have any effect on JF or FM as they are self-centered skills.

FYI I also play a HP soon to be a AB, a Chaser, A Sniper soon to be a Ranger, and many many others, including a Wiz. While I agree that the survival rate of the Wiz class is very low and that the MATK was nerfed all to hell.. I still do not think that a skill such as Jack Frost needs to be able to kill EVERYTHING on the screen and then some in one shot.. Especially since most of what they kill is KS'd from other players who are trying to lvl honestly and working hard at it. Partying with them is an option.. IF you don't mind ksing other ppl while you're at it. EVERY other class's AoE is at max a 9x9 cell. Most are even smaller then that. 5x5 is the norm from what I've seen. Perhaps a 6x6 is a bit small but it gives you more control. You may have to cast it more then once to get as many kills.. but guess what.. So does everyone else. As for the Locks Frost MATK being nerfed.. umm.. I've watched many a Lock come in on Magmas and start ksing the entire map with little to no reguard for other ppl who are trying to lvl.. and yes.. they 1 shot everything. I for one don't want to party with someone like that. I find them rude and offensive.. (especially when they just.. LOL or hahaha at you when you ask them to please watch it and then proceed to ks you again the very next time you're trying to kill something) since they're doing it on purpose most of the time. Those that don't do it on purpose will use Cold bolt or whatever unless they think they're clear to cast Frost. I'd have no problem with partying with those ppl.. Though chances are you're still going to wind up ksing someone just because they were off your screen and you didn't see them.

There is no reason for that AoE to extend THAT far without any way for other players to get out of the way. I'd be saying the exact same thing if my Wiz was a Lock. I do NOT like to ks ppl and I do NOT like to be ks'd.

Oh and a 6x6 was an example, ONLY Mainly it just needs to be so that the Lock can actually SEE everything that JF is going to hit and NOT hit things that are off your screen.

Edited by Rishelle, 28 November 2010 - 05:30 PM.

[Mwrip]

FYI I also play a HP soon to be a AB, a Chaser, A Sniper soon to be a Ranger, and many many others, including a Wiz. While I agree that the survival rate of the Wiz class is very low and that the MATK was nerfed all to hell.. I still do not think that a skill such as Jack Frost needs to be able to kill EVERYTHING on the screen and then some in one shot.. Especially since most of what they kill is KS'd from other players who are trying to lvl honestly and working hard at it. Partying with them is an option.. IF you don't mind ksing other ppl while you're at it. EVERY other class's AoE is at max a 9x9 cell. Most are even smaller then that. 5x5 is the norm from what I've seen. Perhaps a 6x6 is a bit small but it gives you more control. You may have to cast it more then once to get as many kills.. but guess what.. So does everyone else. As for the Locks Frost MATK being nerfed.. umm.. I've watched many a Lock come in on Magmas and start ksing the entire map with little to no reguard for other ppl who are trying to lvl.. and yes.. they 1 shot everything. I for one don't want to party with someone like that. I find them rude and offensive.. (especially when they just.. LOL or hahaha at you when you ask them to please watch it and then proceed to ks you again the very next time you're trying to kill something) since they're doing it on purpose most of the time. Those that don't do it on purpose will use Cold bolt or whatever unless they think they're clear to cast Frost. I'd have no problem with partying with those ppl.. Though chances are you're still going to wind up ksing someone just because they were off your screen and you didn't see them.

There is no reason for that AoE to extend THAT far without any way for other players to get out of the way. I'd be saying the exact same thing if my Wiz was a Lock. I do NOT like to ks ppl and I do NOT like to be ks'd.

Every other class is using 5x5 AoEs INSTANTLY, multiple times per second, for more damage per cast than any Lock spell. So let's compare your proposal:

Melee AoE: 3 casts per second
Lock AoE if it doesn't go any further: 1 cast per 3 seconds... and that cast does less damage than a single melee AoE

So you're asking us to do <10% of melee damage, on a class with 1/4 of the HP and 1/2 of the armor of a meleer. Yeah... just take the class out of the game at the point.

Edited by Mwrip, 28 November 2010 - 05:26 PM.

[Brindizer]

If you're getting KS'd by a Warlock, you're doing it wrong. Nothing you ever hit should take less than a second or two to die.

Leave them be and play better.

[Rishelle]

Every other class is using 5x5 AoEs INSTANTLY, multiple times per second, for more damage per cast than any Lock spell. So let's compare your proposal:

Melee AoE: 3 casts per second
Lock AoE if it doesn't go any further: 1 cast per 3 seconds... and that cast does less damage than a single melee AoE

So you're asking us to do <10% of melee damage, on a class with 1/4 of the HP and 1/2 of the armor of a meleer. Yeah... just take the class out of the game at the point.

Hmm.. so let me hop onto my Wiz.. lvl her into a Lock real fast and I'll just start casting JF on the same map as you, ksing your kills because I couldn't see you. Let's see how you like the range, then. Bet you'd be all.. "Stop ksing" even though I wasn't doing it on purpose but ONLY because I didn't see you trying to kill something a screen and a half over.

It's NOT the Matk that I'm complaining about. That is admittedly weak as sin and sucks.. for most skills. I've stopped playing my Wiz almost completely because of that.

It's simply that JF hits things that the Lock can't even see cause they're not on his screen at all. I've had several Locks accidently KS me 2 screens over.

Party.. sure if they're not rude.. however you can't fit everyone on a map into one party.. so if they party is full, you're SOL and have to deal with not only the party mobbing everything but also getting ks'd by JF just because you didn't see that the Lock was 2 screens away from you and Lock didn't see you.

Again the 6x6 was an example. It does need to be cut down to at least stay ON THE SCREEN of that particular Lock though. At least then if ppl see a lock they can avoid it if they don't want to be ksed or party.

Also.. example of melee vs JF..
Melee mobs 4 monsters and casts 3 instant skills in 3 seconds to kill them, then has to find more monsters, mob again and repeat. This takes time

Lock casts once for 3 seconds and kills 15 monsters on the screen and 15 more off screen. (granted, that is IF there is that many monsters in range at the time.. but you get my point, it's often more then 4 or even 5)

Which do you think gets the better exp?

[Brindizer]

Also.. example of melee vs JF..
Melee mobs 4 monsters and casts 3 instant skills in 3 seconds to kill them, then has to find more monsters, mob again and repeat. This takes time

Lock casts once for 3 seconds and kills 15 monsters on the screen and 15 more off screen. (granted, that is IF there is that many monsters in range at the time.. but you get my point, it's often more then 4 or even 5)

Which do you think gets the better exp?

Most if not all warlocks have to use Frost Misty AND Jack Frost.

Also, what skill kills 4 monsters over 3 seconds used 3 times?

I want to know what class you're playing to be complaining about Warlocks.

Edit: Also, 30 monsters in your vicinity isn't common and you know it. It'll happen once in awhile, but most of the time the Warlock is killing far fewer things. The melee class will have killed many more single targets by the time the Warlock finds an adequate mob to kill.

If you're pissed off about Warlocks KSing you, go kill some water property monsters.

Edited by Brindizer, 28 November 2010 - 06:15 PM.

[Rishelle]

Also, what skill kills 4 monsters over 3 seconds used 3 times?

I want to know what class you're playing to be complaining about Warlocks.

Edit: Also, 30 monsters in your vicinity isn't common and you know it. It'll happen once in awhile, but most of the time the Warlock is killing far fewer things. The melee class will have killed many more single targets by the time the Warlock finds an adequate mob to kill.

If you're pissed off about Warlocks KSing you, go kill some water property monsters.

1. Let's see. Chaser for 1.. it's AoE is 3x3 and has to be cast multiple times to kill the mob.. and that is IF you don't loose the mob while you're doing it. That's only ONE of the class skills like that. There are others on other classes.

2. What classes am I playing? lol I currently have a GS, Chaser, Sniper, Chem, BS, Sinx, Knight, Dancer, Soul Linker, Super Novie, HP (ME build), Priest (FS build), Sage, Monk, AND a WIZ/almost HW, just to name a few.


3. lol Guess you didn't read my little (...) after the 15 kills thing. This doesn't deserve a comment.

4. You like being ks'd? Happens.. yeah. But a skill that kills a screen and a half over.. beyond what the Lock can see in any direction is a bit much.

I'm not really pissed about it.. I'd just like to be able to actually use the skill once my Wiz makes it to Lock without having to constantly worry about killing other people's stuff because I can't see what's not on my screen. The rest is an irritant, sure.. It would be to ANYONE.

Anyway, we'll let the GM's decide if a skill that kills everything over a 3x3 SCREEN is a bit excessive. Night.

[Brindizer]

I leveled a Sura, Mechanic, Royal Guard, and a Warlock and if I got my kills stolen, I was like "Eh, whatever. It's just a couple in the tens of thousands I need to kill." If you absolutely must level with Frost Misty and Jack Frost, do it in a map with fewer people -- especially not in a place like Magmarings. Otherwise kill what's on your screen. If someone pulls monsters onto the screen after you've already casted it, too bad. Ragnarok.

[Rishelle]

If you absolutely must level with Frost Misty and Jack Frost, do it in a map with fewer people -- especially not in a place like Magmarings. Otherwise kill what's on your screen. If someone pulls monsters onto the screen after you've already casted it, too bad. Ragnarok.

This is my point exactly.. Listen carefully to what you are saying and what I am saying..

YOU are saying that it kills over just 1 screen.. singular.

I'm saying that's not so. It kills BEYOND that up to 1 and 1/2 screens (plural) NOT including the screen that the Lock is on.

I agree that if someone pulls a mob into your AoE after you've cast.. They're sol (though most of the time I at least apologize for it). However if they don't even know where there Lock is.. they start attacking something then out of nowhere JF comes in from way off screen and kills your mob.. You go in search of said lock just to see where it came from, who hasn't moved yet and have to walk a screen and a half over before you even get a glimpse of them.. That's just.. excessive. JF kills in what.. a 40x40 cell range? Probably not that much but maybe close, I haven't actually mapped it out yet. The least that should be done is cut it down to something like a 15x15 cell range, or whatever is the standard screen size. This gives them 1 entire screen.. or close to it. At least then they'd be able to see if they were going to ks someone BEFORE they cast.

[reden]

idk why everyone is arguing with Rishelle. i would be happy to have this nerf to frost misty/jack frost so i can finally find those skill points i need for other skills.

ps jack frost is 27x27 aoe and from experience i havent been able to hit some mobs i could see on my screen. whether it hits off screen is based on the shape of the map (eg hills/uneven)otherwise it only hits whatever is onscreen. also jack frost does nothing without frost misty/freezing so it will take at least 2 casts and possibly more if they dont get freezing. so if the monster you're hitting suddenly gets freezing maybe move or try to kill it faster? im sure ull say i cant see the warlock how can i move away from him? well theres a good chance that the warlock is in the direction u were heading so move in the direction you came from. yes the monsters are slower because of freezing but if they are getting hit offscreen they are probably JUST getting hit so a few cells will save it.

[Brindizer]

And to think -- it used to go through walls, too! Then it got fixed.

[Trixdee]

ok so I mistook what radius does..^^;;; Is it possible to just set it in a way that it does not hit off screen monsters? Seems like that would make the most sense. It would not involve nerfing or changing any other aspect of the skill.

[Caelum]

If you don't like Locks accidentally KSing you at Magmarings, then why not just go level on Bloody Murderers or Ice Titans. They are the same level, but you won't see a Lock go anywhere near them with Jack Frost.

I love how people ignore the fact that different classes can easily level in various places that Locks can't...but they choose to congregate on the same maps and do nothing but complain.

[Caelum]

And to think -- it used to go through walls, too! Then it got fixed.

When the skill was designed, it was 31x31 but was lowered to do to being excessive. I don't think people realize that these skills were also designed for pvp and WoE as well. A Lock has to be able to deal damage from afar and affect many players at once or else he can just drop dead by looking at him.

ok so I mistook what radius does..^^;;; Is it possible to just set it in a way that it does not hit off screen monsters? Seems like that would make the most sense. It would not involve nerfing or changing any other aspect of the skill.

From my experience, you can't deal damage to "off screen" mobs. All skill's damage is limited to line-of-sight and how many cells that is. It may seem like you can kill mobs you can't see, but 9 times out of 10, that's because of screen resolution, game window is small, or your monitor is small. I've noticed too that the JF animation goes much farther than the damage range, and I think people may be confusing the 2. I ran some tests and I was not able to hit mobs I couldn't see normally anyway (assuming a non-sloped terrain).

Edited by Caelum, 29 November 2010 - 01:15 AM.

[ArmaniExchange]

They switched to an MATK formula where gear is extremely important, without actually releasing any gear. This leaves the class severely underpowered. Who is going to party with a class that does less damage than a meleer, while also having a fraction of the HP and the damage reduction? There is no role for a class with that description.

Wizzies in RO have always been best in parties, where you can blast monsters while a more defensive character holds them off, safety wall others, and generally stand back and lob a variety of spells to help the party, switching between nukes and defensive spells as needed. Partying has been utterly destroyed in Renewal, however. Meleers 1 shot everything, Healers don't do enough healing or buffing to be worth the exp share, and by the time a caster finishes a spell, the meleers have already cleared the screen with instant skills that do just as much damage.

Normally, this just means you fight harder monsters while you have a nuker with you... but why would you ever do that? If you fight 10 levels over you, your exp plummets to nothing, and if you fight less than that, then why are you letting a lock drain exp from you... because that's really all he's doing.

If they're not going to change the penalty, then they need to make 1-2 areas for each level range both much harder and much higher exp, so it actually makes sense to use a real party.

you dont do enough or anyting to be worth exp share or anything in Ragnarok for taht matetr stupid fail noob scrub i on u.. leaarn to play before making up useless banter

the end

[DeltaRay]

FYI I also play a HP soon to be a AB, a Chaser, A Sniper soon to be a Ranger, and many many others, including a Wiz. While I agree that the survival rate of the Wiz class is very low and that the MATK was nerfed all to hell.. I still do not think that a skill such as Jack Frost needs to be able to kill EVERYTHING on the screen and then some in one shot.. Especially since most of what they kill is KS'd from other players who are trying to lvl honestly and working hard at it. Partying with them is an option.. IF you don't mind ksing other ppl while you're at it. EVERY other class's AoE is at max a 9x9 cell. Most are even smaller then that. 5x5 is the norm from what I've seen. Perhaps a 6x6 is a bit small but it gives you more control. You may have to cast it more then once to get as many kills.. but guess what.. So does everyone else. As for the Locks Frost MATK being nerfed.. umm.. I've watched many a Lock come in on Magmas and start ksing the entire map with little to no reguard for other ppl who are trying to lvl.. and yes.. they 1 shot everything. I for one don't want to party with someone like that. I find them rude and offensive.. (especially when they just.. LOL or hahaha at you when you ask them to please watch it and then proceed to ks you again the very next time you're trying to kill something) since they're doing it on purpose most of the time. Those that don't do it on purpose will use Cold bolt or whatever unless they think they're clear to cast Frost. I'd have no problem with partying with those ppl.. Though chances are you're still going to wind up ksing someone just because they were off your screen and you didn't see them.

There is no reason for that AoE to extend THAT far without any way for other players to get out of the way. I'd be saying the exact same thing if my Wiz was a Lock. I do NOT like to ks ppl and I do NOT like to be ks'd.

Oh and a 6x6 was an example, ONLY Mainly it just needs to be so that the Lock can actually SEE everything that JF is going to hit and NOT hit things that are off your screen.

No.
jack frost is our main skill for woe too, this skill and frost misty is what prevents us from already dying quickly to getting smashed in 1 second,yet you want to nerf casting thats another no im a warlock and im getting KSed every once in a while by accident and personally i dont care too much unless you purposely do it.