327 replies to this topic

[Mwrip]

you dont do enough or anyting to be worth exp share or anything in Ragnarok for taht matetr stupid fail noob scrub i on u.. leaarn to play before making up useless banter

the end

Edited by Mwrip, 29 November 2010 - 09:43 AM.

[ArmaniExchange]

^ you


ME > YOU anytime

[Caelum]

you dont do enough or anyting to be worth exp share or anything in Ragnarok for taht matetr stupid fail noob scrub i on u.. leaarn to play before making up useless banter

Armani, we are trying to have a discussion about skills and deficiencies of the Warlock class. This forum is not the place to attack and troll others. Please take your business elsewhere if you can't fight that urge.

[Akin]

I'm saying that's not so. It kills BEYOND that up to 1 and 1/2 screens (plural) NOT including the screen that the Lock is on.

ok so I mistook what radius does..^^;;; Is it possible to just set it in a way that it does not hit off screen monsters? Seems like that would make the most sense. It would not involve nerfing or changing any other aspect of the skill.

It may very well not be killing monsters outside of the Warlock's screen. If it's 27x27, that's a 13 cell radius. That's no where near off my screen when I play at a resolution over 1280x1024, but it would be off my screen if I played at 1024x768. The server doesn't and can't adjust AoE size based on whether other people are playing at lower resolutions or are zoomed in.

I've been KS'd by Jack Frost plenty of times, but that skill doesn't 1 shot my mobs and I don't get upset by it. In fact, I'm usually happy because part of my mob freezes so I don't have to pot as much and the EXP tap it nice. That's not to say that I try to make it happen, it's quite easy to locate a Warlock on a map and try to pull monsters around them. As far as magmarings are concerned, why wouldn't anyone level there?

[ArmaniExchange]

Armani, we are trying to have a discussion about skills and deficiencies of the Warlock class. This forum is not the place to attack and troll others. Please take your business elsewhere if you can't fight that urge.

ya we are soo gtfo ir ur not contributing.. he donest know what hes talkinb abouit duhh... AB dont buff enuf lol.. look at all the HP's AB outer theree noob

[Trixdee]

Hey Armani take a chill pill you don't need to talk to people like that

[Orlandoprah]

The Warlocks Jack Frost needs to seriously be reassessed. KSing is supposed to be illegal but if you have a Warlock using that on the map.. You are going to get ks'd no matter what. Some don't do it on purpose but I think most do, using other players to hold monsters for them (w/o them knowing) then casting just so they can get more kills. Also the all but instant cast of that skill makes it impossible to move your kill/s out of Frost's range.. especially since it kills everything for several screens beyond where the Lock is at.

It's a nice skill.. Would hate to see it actually be gotten rid of but maybe cut the area of attack down to say a 6x6 cell and give it a slightly longer cast time (2 sec fixed cast would be plenty) to reduce unintentional ksing and giving time for ppl to move their kills should a lock purposefully try to ks you.

I play a wiz.. well not as much anymore since HW's, let alone lowly wiz's are pretty much useless now.. but I would still love to get her up to a warlock and be able to use that skill.. However I do NOT want to have to constantly worry about ksing ppl because of it.. Right now the skill is impossible to use "legally" without ksing unless you're on the map by yourself or the only other ones are in a party with you.

people dont get angry at juperos, rachel or magma dungeon for example, or at least never see someone complain about it. Only at veins field some people complain about their lava porings getting KS. Use fly wing thats all, or change map. Magmarings is like the new gators map.

Wiz branch needs the biggest AoE skills, if the range gets nerfed then the rest of the classes should get their AoE nerfed too

[Hiban]

FYI I also play a HP soon to be a AB, a Chaser, A Sniper soon to be a Ranger, and many many others, including a Wiz. While I agree that the survival rate of the Wiz class is very low and that the MATK was nerfed all to hell.. I still do not think that a skill such as Jack Frost needs to be able to kill EVERYTHING on the screen and then some in one shot.. Especially since most of what they kill is KS'd from other players who are trying to lvl honestly and working hard at it. Partying with them is an option.. IF you don't mind ksing other ppl while you're at it. EVERY other class's AoE is at max a 9x9 cell. Most are even smaller then that. 5x5 is the norm from what I've seen. Perhaps a 6x6 is a bit small but it gives you more control. You may have to cast it more then once to get as many kills.. but guess what.. So does everyone else. As for the Locks Frost MATK being nerfed.. umm.. I've watched many a Lock come in on Magmas and start ksing the entire map with little to no reguard for other ppl who are trying to lvl.. and yes.. they 1 shot everything. I for one don't want to party with someone like that. I find them rude and offensive.. (especially when they just.. LOL or hahaha at you when you ask them to please watch it and then proceed to ks you again the very next time you're trying to kill something) since they're doing it on purpose most of the time. Those that don't do it on purpose will use Cold bolt or whatever unless they think they're clear to cast Frost. I'd have no problem with partying with those ppl.. Though chances are you're still going to wind up ksing someone just because they were off your screen and you didn't see them.

There is no reason for that AoE to extend THAT far without any way for other players to get out of the way. I'd be saying the exact same thing if my Wiz was a Lock. I do NOT like to ks ppl and I do NOT like to be ks'd.

Oh and a 6x6 was an example, ONLY Mainly it just needs to be so that the Lock can actually SEE everything that JF is going to hit and NOT hit things that are off your screen.

You are being too bias, and you are also labeling every warlock for your bad encounter with one (don't let this anger dominate your opinion). what you are doing is no different from racial prejudice. And it seems you have not obtained enough knowledge on warlocks to have made such proposal.

Edited by Hiban, 04 December 2010 - 05:38 PM.

[Brindizer]

Frost Misty should only hit monsters I can see, huh?

Good thing I'm playing at 1920 x 1080!

[Rishelle]

I still say that JF needs to be reduced and it's not just me. I have now played a warlock personally and yes.. it's impossible not to KS someone that is on the same screen as you, already hitting something before you cast, even 1 to 1 1/2 screens over at STANDARD resolution. I play in 1280x800 res and still was hitting things OFF my screen and killing them, not just freezing them. It's bad enough that you have to be extremely careful about using it and can only use it if NO ONE is already on your screen killing a monster. This makes it difficult at best (if not impossible) to use effectively and LEGALLY in PvM. As for nerfing the other AoE's.. LOL How much more can you nerf a 3x3 AoE and still call it such? Largest AoE the Priest class has is a 7x7.. and that isn't attacking. Largest attack for them is a 5x5. Hunter/Sniper/Rangers.. don't really have AoE's per-say though some traps might be considered that.. at about 3x3 or maybe 4x4. GX's.. yep. 3x3 AoE and they have to be cloaked first to use it thus another skill must be used first. Same for SC's.. different attacks, same range and must be in hiding first. Royal Guard.. Not sure but Cru's have a 5x5 attack.. RK's.. They don't need one.. their CS is overpowered enough. heh

What could be done to keep people happy is yes.. lower the AoE of JF quite a bit to make it possible to use in PvM without the worry.. but FIX the MATK. Cause yeah.. that seriously sucks. Took 1 SG hit for a group of goats prerenewal at lvl 90.... Same lvl post renewal and it takes 4 casts.. After a super long cast time that wasn't there before.. not nearly THAT long anyway. Wiz is dead before even the second cast can go off unless they're being tanked/ heal bombed with an uninterruptable cast.

[Mwrip]

If you want to do roughly 2000% MATK to a 7x7 area, using water element, you may want to look at the Wizard spell list. You'll find a skill that already serves that purpose, especially with the future update that reverses the freeze chance progression.

If JF is going to be nothing but a Gust that takes twice as long to cast for the same damage (actually less damage with that update!), than it serves no purpose whatsoever. At that point, just grab the new SG, and remove the Mist/Frost combo completely from the game.

Has anyone suggested lowering bow range from 15 to 12? It's just as common for rangers to KS you because they're firing so far that they're hitting things that don't look engaged, but actually are. So, should we nerf rangers because they can accidentally KS? Of course not.

Really, RO should just switch to a more modern exp system, where accidental KSes don't leech exp. It makes things a lot more civil, and players a lot less worried about accidentally blasting someone else's monsters while frantically trying to stay alive.

Edited by Mwrip, 07 December 2010 - 11:13 AM.

[LethalJokeChar]

The problem is when accidental KSes turn into intentional KSes to help level the said "victim" along faster. Cause apparently leveling any bit faster is a big no-no in renewal. Trying to make a new exp system up that will ignore a few accidental KSes isn't worth the time and effort trying to make something complex like that which can be abused. And also... we are straying very far off of warlocks, aren't we?

[Trixdee]

It seems there is no middle solution to the problem. People will be getting more and more mad about being KS'd by Jack Frost whether meant to or not. Reducing the area in which the skill actually hits monsters would open up a whole other nerf can of worms. So I guess just ban Warlocks from leveling at Magmarings -___-; Maybe I have not seen the problem on Ymir, usually if someone is KS'd we apologize and go our way.

Edited by Trixdee, 07 December 2010 - 05:51 PM.

[Mwrip]

The entire warlock class can be summed up with "great idea, terrible execution". If melee AoEs are going to be instant and do more damage than wizard spells, the lock spells can't just be melee AoEs with a cast bar - they have to be impressively powerful, or you're just a slower, squishier melee that no one wants to party with, and everyone finds is in their way when they're trying to play on the same map.

The whole "let's let you blast the whole screen" thing is a great idea IF the system has a way to stop that from KSing people you can't even see. Unfortunately, they forgot to code that part. You'd think with all the QQ that happened when LoV came out, that they would've gotten around to that in the last 6 years or so.

The many ways the spells combo and flow together is cool, but again... useless in a game where the monsters aren't a threat. No one is going to wait for you to set up that combo when they can melee AoE it to death in 0.5 seconds, and you haven't even launched the first spell yet, much less the followup that does actual damage.

The whole "precast a small list of spells, freeze them, then fire them off at the right moment" thing is awesome... or would be, if there were monsters that were actually worth employing that kind of strategy against... but there isn't.

Drain life would be a great way to make the class more solo-friendly... if it didn't heal less than a heal clip.

Really, someone needs to take a serious re-look at what they've built here. If locks worked the way their skill tree suggests they should, it'd be a complex, powerful, fun class. Instead, it's a very interesting, flashy joke... but a joke nonetheless... and a joke that isn't very funny to those finding their monsters on the wrong end of the terribly coded Jack Frost.

-Take jRO's MATK formula
-Actually do what you said you were going to in the party thread to return challenging play to the game
-Fix Drain Life and Hell Inferno to not fail at life.
-Get a system that prevents KSing in play
-Get 3rd jobs to use 70 skill points since the job before them did
-Fix the MDEF curve so it's not ridiculously easy to take away half of our damage... or at least give us an option to pierce effectively

Bam, playable, fun class, and no one getting pissed off at it.

Edited by Mwrip, 07 December 2010 - 07:16 PM.

[Wizard]

So... when are we going to get access to "El Dicastes" so we can get these "Ultimate Books"??

[Orlandoprah]

I still say that JF needs to be reduced and it's not just me. I have now played a warlock personally and yes.. it's impossible not to KS someone that is on the same screen as you, already hitting something before you cast, even 1 to 1 1/2 screens over at STANDARD resolution. I play in 1280x800 res and still was hitting things OFF my screen and killing them, not just freezing them. It's bad enough that you have to be extremely careful about using it and can only use it if NO ONE is already on your screen killing a monster. This makes it difficult at best (if not impossible) to use effectively and LEGALLY in PvM. As for nerfing the other AoE's.. LOL How much more can you nerf a 3x3 AoE and still call it such? Largest AoE the Priest class has is a 7x7.. and that isn't attacking. Largest attack for them is a 5x5. Hunter/Sniper/Rangers.. don't really have AoE's per-say though some traps might be considered that.. at about 3x3 or maybe 4x4. GX's.. yep. 3x3 AoE and they have to be cloaked first to use it thus another skill must be used first. Same for SC's.. different attacks, same range and must be in hiding first. Royal Guard.. Not sure but Cru's have a 5x5 attack.. RK's.. They don't need one.. their CS is overpowered enough. heh

What could be done to keep people happy is yes.. lower the AoE of JF quite a bit to make it possible to use in PvM without the worry.. but FIX the MATK. Cause yeah.. that seriously sucks. Took 1 SG hit for a group of goats prerenewal at lvl 90.... Same lvl post renewal and it takes 4 casts.. After a super long cast time that wasn't there before.. not nearly THAT long anyway. Wiz is dead before even the second cast can go off unless they're being tanked/ heal bombed with an uninterruptable cast.

warlock KS - magmaring map

how much it can nerf? 3x3 -> single target, thats it. As I say, people only complain at magmarings thats all. If a magmaring was harder to kill no one will get angry. Try to kill a salamander or kasa with FM.

btw I never seen a warlock KSing every soul on magmaring map.
I dont know what will happend to this discussion because most warlocks love the skill and I think in some months the skill range will be something normal and everyone will love it too =) <3

If warlock get skills nerfed, they will nerf these skills too? Just 2 examples
http://irowiki.org/wiki/Dragon_Breath
http://irowiki.org/wiki/Reflect_Damage

[wazzzup]

Warlocks are underpowered..plain and simple..

Everyone knows it, Melee is simply the best.
The staff cannot deny it just take a look.

They get one shot in pvp/woe, anywhere idc your level.

Make Warlock's need a boost to make them more effective, I couldn't really say yet most of its been previously said..
The cast delay on the reading spellbook is awful, I could honestly nearly cast crimson rock 4 times before using the stupid insta cast 4 times..the delay is so bad.
Please look this over and understand that Warlock's do need some help in pvp, even if you made us more like Sorcerers I would be happy.
Elemental damage nowadays just seems terrible.

[Wizard]

Please fix TV bug when using Earth Ball =)... It doesn't work against ppl in hidden status...

Ja na

[Trixdee]

I think the 5 sec cast of energy coat is a bit overkill. I'm sure I'm not the only one. It slows down things a lot. To me it's typical to kill the mob tele find a safe place to heal up and recoat and get back to action but such a long cast time for coating makes it really cumbersome.

Edited by Trixdee, 16 December 2010 - 01:07 AM.

[Wizard]

^ indeed... but dunno everyone else but I kinda got used to it...

If there will be a way to fix a lil bit the matk formula so we can have more matk... that would it be a good change =)

[Charon]

^ indeed... but dunno everyone else but I kinda got used to it...

If there will be a way to fix a lil bit the matk formula so we can have more matk... that would it be a good change =)

odd
I stopped using energy coat, unless I need to go afk for a few sec or something LOL

[MrMajestic]

i do not want anything on this class to be reduced. they are an important class in woe and the AoE coverage they get is well deserved for being so squishy. and I don't play Warlock and never even played a High Wizard, let alone a wizard or a Mage. I just want there to be threats other than RKs and Royal guards. Deal with there KSing, chances are your probably leveling up a whole lot faster than these guys any way. learn to share. Check the 150 winners, those guys are all RKs and Snipers, royal guards and genetics. there is nothing over powered about this class. they are perfect the way they are. put your efforts into re vamping real under powered classes. actually, maybe since they keep complaining about cast time reduction you should probably reduce some of those skills they ask for. but by all means, they do not need a buff in Matk. they're not a DPS class, they are there in WoE to slow every enemy down or damper their abilities to the point people are almost entirely ineffective. Hope this class remains played, unlike the extinct mechanic.

Edited by MrMajestic, 16 December 2010 - 07:54 PM.

[DeltaRay]

i do not want anything on this class to be reduced. they are an important class in woe and the AoE coverage they get is well deserved for being so squishy. and I don't play Warlock and never even played a High Wizard, let alone a wizard or a Mage. I just want there to be threats other than RKs and Royal guards. Deal with there KSing, chances are your probably leveling up a whole lot faster than these guys any way. learn to share. Check the 150 winners, those guys are all RKs and Snipers, royal guards and genetics. there is nothing over powered about this class. they are perfect the way they are. put your efforts into re vamping real under powered classes. actually, maybe since they keep complaining about cast time reduction you should probably reduce some of those skills they ask for. but by all means, they do not need a buff in Matk. they're not a DPS class, they are there in WoE to slow every enemy down or damper their abilities to the point people are almost entirely ineffective. Hope this class remains played, unlike the extinct mechanic.

What are you high or something? this class needs MATK buffed wizards pre trans were part of the fire power, they were a threat soo much of a threat that they invented a skill called Magnetic Earth.Once ME was taken down the battle is pretty much over Knights job was to rush into enemy and take down ME from there the wizards take it, Crusaders were meant to sac wizards and sages to delay them from dying too quick.Trans came along and wizards were still a threat there was still "ME Battles".3rd class comes along and we cant even kill 1 person unless we get help from other classes... thats sad you have to wear hibrams to do some good damage.

You dont play mage/wiz/warlock so you have no right in saying whats good and whats bad specially when you haven't really gotten any experience, and yes they are a DPS class i dont know what kind of MMOs you been playing.They should really integrate jROs matk formula.

Edited by DeltaRay, 16 December 2010 - 08:28 PM.

[Wizard]

What are you high or something? this class needs MATK buffed wizards pre trans were part of the fire power, they were a threat soo much of a threat that they invented a skill called Magnetic Earth.Once ME was taken down the battle is pretty much over Knights job was to rush into enemy and take down ME from there the wizards take it, Crusaders were meant to sac wizards and sages to delay them from dying too quick.Trans came along and wizards were still a threat there was still "ME Battles".3rd class comes along and we cant even kill 1 person unless we get help from other classes... thats sad you have to wear hibrams to do some good damage.

You dont play mage/wiz/warlock so you have no right in saying whats good and whats bad specially when you haven't really gotten any experience, and yes they are a DPS class i dont know what kind of MMOs you been playing.They should really integrate jROs matk formula.

^ As he said... but you are wrong in something... Warlocks can actually kill several ppl... it depends in what skills to do you have... regular spells like CR, JF won't do much damage, even Comet is not that great thanks to WoE reductions... but TV is a 1 shot K.O. skill w/o doubts about it... the only way you won't kill with TV is either u had bad luck choosing your elements or the target has more than 45k HP... other than that, you can kill even w/o Hibram Shoes... it depends also in how good can you manage your matk/demi human damage... believe me... is not that easy but is not that hard either... the only sad thing is that those dragon balls only last 30 seconds and TV has cooldown of 15 seconds... other than that, heck even with Sacrament you have an almost instant cast 1 hit K.O. skill...

Edited by Wizard, 17 December 2010 - 12:51 AM.

[DeltaRay]

Warlocks shouldnt be using a 1 targetted skill that has a cool down, they never been a target skill they been a AOE skill with good damage also tetra takes a lot of skill points.

Edited by DeltaRay, 17 December 2010 - 01:14 AM.