296 replies to this topic

[Bendersmom]

I wana see how this will works wen most of fs know about this, an sugest for me in CD, JUST FREAKING GROUP WITH A CLERIC FS EASY than waiting for a cleric join... Im geting sick of seeing many ppl asking for nerf most of classes principal clerics... Y ppl dont acept the classes they are atm?? Ik there should need to be changed smthing but keep nerfing classes made everything worst...... It even made me sick most of classes geting nerfed, even the vendors made me like idk, is like i just wana give up in buying stuff from others players.... 7b++ for an epic +15 100 dura random gem.... Srsly... Thats watd mading the prices mutch expensives .... I dont have more nthing to say but i dont wana ppl come cryimg to gms n SCREW MORE THE CLASSES this is my opinion in this patchnote n maybe the rest of patchnotes in changing stats/skills/etc in the classes, idk if i have more anything to say, depends the rest of the comments i read ....

 

To sum it up for Jeremy  Filipito is sick of all of the changes.  And don't wait for a FS cleric to join Cd, group with one first.  And they are sick of changes to clerics and that all of the changes lately are just making the game worse.  And they are sick of buying really expensive items and the changes are making prices go up even more.  and people need to stop complaining to the GMs who then mess up the classes more.  And Filipito may say more depending on what other comments people make here.

 

At least I believe that is what Filipito said.  We are a mixed group that play Rose and no one should feel that they can't come to the forums and post their thoughts.  And not all speak English as a first language or well in general.  So I would suggest that if you can't read a post then ignore it, or ask a question, but not insult the person for trying to post and give their opinions.  We need a lot more in the community to read the forums and post more.

 

Destiny - I only use mana shield in dire emergencies and actually it is for all clerics and mages, otherwise I would not be able to get it.  And there are some of us that actually like it.  But whether you use it or not, the mage should not be able to take all of the MP from any class in one shot.  No class should effectively shut down another class with one skill in my opinion.  And mana pots give back so little mana that they are really not helpful at all. 

Edited by Bendersmom, 26 April 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[jerremy]

Never intended to come over as insulting, I ask if he can be more clear in his spelling and all he says is that I don't try enough to understand him. Oh well, guess I'll just ignore it next time.

[bl0b]

1. Mana burn(pvp) is OP, Mages can usually drain non muse classes in one hit. 

2. Movement speed debuffs, (mages and dual raiders), last way too long for a skill that can practically immobilise you for like 10-20 seconds.. don't know the exact time. stuns last 2-3 seconds, sleeps are fine since one wakes up as soon as he's disturbed.. why should this status last so much longer then stuns and sleeps and can only be countered by purify. (which has never happened to me). 

 

No facts and figures to back me up, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited by bl0b, 26 April 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[jerremy]

Don't think the movement speed down (dual raider one, at least, mage was always intended to be a snare of sorts) was ever intended to immobilise players. As someone who's been doing the snaring, and getting snared myself, I can feel your pain, but with the current setup lowering the duration wouldn't work out very well. Perhaps slightly scale down the effect so it won't have the 'snaring' effect, and would just be a strong slow in most occasions.

Edited by jerremy, 26 April 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[DestinyDeoxys]

 And mana pots give back so little mana that they are really not helpful at all. 

 

Thanks I finally remember what I forgot. You just reminded me that I was going to ask Leonis if he will change the mechanic of blue pots, currently a blue pots recover 1025MP, is quite big for non-muse classes, but is very insignificant for a mage that go for a full MP + mana shield build.

My mage has around 38K MP buffed I think, and when I pop a blue pots, it doesn't even go up. So I hope Leonis will change the blue pots from fixed value to percentage based.

[3722121031200347517]

Cleric exists to HEAL, not to buff. Buffs are a global factor. 

 dude you said clerics exits to heal but you have said earlier posts to purify too? 

its kinda hard to heal players and purify in cd and if you only want clerics to heal then goodluck no fun in this game anymore since charm items are all we have earned for..and one more thing try playing cleric like jin suggested(oh how i would love to see you play cleri) before you tell something about it

 

 

 

not mad or anything just want to help

Edited by 3722121031200347517, 26 April 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[EmoCutt]

 dude you said clerics exits to heal but you have said earlier posts to purify too? 

its kinda hard to heal players and purify in cd and if you only want clerics to heal then goodluck no fun in this game anymore since charm items are all we have earned for..and one more thing try playing cleric like jin suggested(oh how i would love to see you play cleri) before you tell something about it

 

 

 

not mad or anything just want to help

 

This..

[Feuer]

Purify is a type of heal. 

To further illustrate the point I made on Purify, the current purify in-game is based off the suggestion I made for it. After it was done guess what, it was no longer an issue. 

 

Buffs are not heals, they are an enhancement.

Purify "heals" the person of an affliction.

 

Two completely different mechanical points of interest. 

Edited by Feuer, 26 April 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[Ahya]

Anyway, solution from me:

 

If your idea is to make the selfbuff stronger than cleric, I suggest to leave cleric's buff to be as it is right now in live server, and make other classes' selfbuff stronger to buff himself only, not to pt. So if they want their stat better, they will just invest some charm and waste some skill point for their own. For who don't want to invest SP for selfbuff and rely on cleric's buff, they can spend their sp in some other thing that can help to protect clerics.

 

So with this even team lack of classes, they still can progress to protect cleric as the same from that cleric buff. And if some class like champ/knight who want themselves have more ap/def/and hp, raider/scout who want more mspd and atsp or bourg/artisan who want more accu, they have to give up their skill point and charm for it.

 

Note: Right now there are less FS Clerics around in GA because many of them turn to BC and please consider it again that not to make FS cleric disappear.

 

 

Agreed. Nothing else to add actually, this pretty much sums up everything I have in mind. Even better. Powerful self buffs that would overpower the clerics' would make people take them, no matter if it costs SP or not. So long as it makes themselves strong, they would take it. And in case they choose otherwise, the cleric is always there to provide the weaker (current) buffs that they have. 

 

Of course, adjusting the charm scaling of those self buffs to equal or surpass most clerics' buffs is a must in a way that they cannot obtain those buffs without sacrificing a little portion of their stats for charm.

 

 

2. If you feel that you have to change the cleric buffs please do not decrease the mspd one. Right now there are so few escape routes for clerics.  We can't heal through 2-3 attackers and with all of the stuns and sleeps and silences and mutes we can't heal ourselves.  And with Purify randomly taking debuffs it rarely takes mspd down. The only chance we have is to try to run.  And very few clerics use mspd gear, they need more def.  I don't remember people saying mspd was way too high on any class with or without buffs.  So I would not change the mspd buff.

 

3. I didn't see any changes to mana burn.  A lot of mages are going high charm and are able to take away many classes full MP in one cast.  That doesn't seem right to me.

 

 

2. Yes, of all buffs, the only thing that bothered my ass to hell is the mspd one.

 

3. Honestly, all those full/high charm mages who are able to take away many classes' full MP in one cast aren't OP. An INT build for a mage, rather than CHA, would get so many other things than a CHA mage would get from Mana Burn. In exchange of all those AP and crit, he gets to be able to terribly disable an enemy. If he goes INT rather than CHA, his PvP Mana Burn would not be able to do the same. More crit, accu and AP, and survival. Each has its own pros and cons, and every one of those got a proper tradeoff in exchange for what they have. I pretty much just expressed Destiny's statement in my own words.

 

 

The "Cleric run out of mana" thing is under the assumption that you get hit 3-4 times, but do you know how long it takes to land this skill 3-4 times? It takes 24 sec to drain a cleric with a regular mage and it takes 16 sec to drain a cleric with a CHA mage, do you think a CHA mage can stand more than 5 sec? Not to mention many clerics have mana flames to back them up, and do you know the stats of a mana flame? one mana flame recover 9% MP every 3 seconds, two mana flame recovery 18% MP every 3 seconds.

 

 

Edited by Ahya, 27 April 2014 - 05:13 AM.

[3722121031200347517]

lets just put it this way sir, i play cleric in cd and i have an idea(first person point of view) on how clerics do in cd and you have a third person point of view which is completely different points of interest. So you are suggesting to remove cleric's buff and suggest grouping before queueing in cd its not you said it like that but eventually go to something like that..this is just my point of view btw

 

[Filipito98]

To sum it up for Jeremy Filipito is sick of all of the changes. And don't wait for a FS cleric to join Cd, group with one first. And they are sick of changes to clerics and that all of the changes lately are just making the game worse. And they are sick of buying really expensive items and the changes are making prices go up even more. and people need to stop complaining to the GMs who then mess up the classes more. And Filipito may say more depending on what other comments people make here.

At least I believe that is what Filipito said. We are a mixed group that play Rose and no one should feel that they can't come to the forums and post their thoughts. And not all speak English as a first language or well in general. So I would suggest that if you can't read a post then ignore it, or ask a question, but not insult the person for trying to post and give their opinions. We need a lot more in the community to read the forums and post more.

Destiny - I only use mana shield in dire emergencies and actually it is for all clerics and mages, otherwise I would not be able to get it. And there are some of us that actually like it. But whether you use it or not, the mage should not be able to take all of the MP from any class in one shot. No class should effectively shut down another class with one skill in my opinion. And mana pots give back so little mana that they are really not helpful at all.

yap is more or less that but i was also talking about others classes not just the clerics, ... How can i explain? Like, do u guys like your fav class get nerfed more n be unable to play? Is not just about the clerics but yes the wole classes in rose, but ofc there always ppl who wana nerf more others classes cause they thing them "op", btw sry about dat jerremy :I

Edited by Filipito98, 26 April 2014 - 11:23 PM.

[Feuer]

@

3722121031200347517

I didnt say remove buffs, except in one THEORY crafting post. where I also stated it would not be a good idea to do it until much later. You miss-interpret far too much to be interjecting or attempting to point out a factual statement about my thoughts. 

Eventually, there should be a separation between Buffs + Heals. They're not the same type of support function, and should eventually be separated. Not saying REMOVE them from clerics, I'm saying they should be set apart, in a method that al lbuffs across all channels & Classes are equal, but using a class feature buff [Hawker Mspd] is more beneficial for one self/party. Is that really so hard to understand? 

[3722121031200347517]

ok then. i get that buff from other classes such as stat modifiers. got that 

 

but before you comment on support(buffs+heals) i would like to see you play cleric first before i agree on what posts you put in because its always easier said than done. i agree that you understood the game but its always different when youre at it(in action, i mean)

[Feuer]

I've had a number of them through out the years, I really just don't enjoy that play style as a preference, but if it will prove a point in validity to make, yet another, cleric and show you, then I will.

[3722121031200347517]

fair enough

[kwayan19]

How about just remove some buffs.. and keep a few ones unique to the cleric... having classes with same buffs is redudundant...

I know pvm will be harder but since people here says that a cleric is a HEALER NOT A BUFFER...
Plus it will encourage party play when leveling...

Use buff pots....

P.s. another patch another nerf to the cleric .. clap clap
P.p.p.s. iknowitsnotfinalbutstill

Edited by kwayan19, 27 April 2014 - 04:13 AM.

[Bendersmom]

Suddenly making a cleric to go into Cd will only give you half of the picture.  Playing it a lot and for a long time will give you a much better picture.  

And I guess my issue is about changing the function of a class that I have played, and enjoyed playing, for years.  It is kind of akin to saying that knights are attackers and support but we think taunt is too much so we are going to take it away.  I think that is changing the function and fun of the class.

 

I understand that a lot of you think the Buffs are too OP.  And if you are talking an ubuffed team against a buffed team you are definitely right.  But in all other scenarios (1vs1, 1vs3 clerics, etc.) both teams typically have equal buffs.  And in TG wars everyone buffs up with a max int cleric outside.  In dungeons it is so hard to do a dungeon without a cleric, but it can be done and is challenging.  but if you have a cleric all get the same buffs.  And you can level and farm without buffs but yes, it is much easier to do it with a cleric.  But it is not necessary.

 

So if you get rid of buffs or even take them from the cleric and distribute them throughout all of the classes I think people will be crying like hell that they can't get a good party so they can get all of the buffs.  And I don't think it will make more players play the under powered classes just to give others a party buff.  And dungeons only allow 5 people so if you don't group up before hand you will not be sure to get all of the buffs, and even then some will be missing.  And people won't go randomly into dungeons either, not sure what team they will get.  If you are trying to level in Rose as it is, you will only have your self buffs, unless you are really lucky and find someone else to party with. And the mobs will probably have to be changed for those that only have partial or no buffs.  

 

In addition, a lot of people that have played cleric a long time have played it because they like to help the "team".  We don't (or at least didn't in the past) level as fast as the fighters since we don't kill well, a FS cleric can't go out and farm alone anymore, a FS cleric can't do a dungeon without buffs and help from other classes (we can't kill anything).  And why would you want a FS cleric in dungeons if they don't have buffs?  People can use pots and really don't need many heals (although that will probably change without buffs).

 

To me, just being able to heal is kind of worthless.  That is a lame skill really and only needed in Game Arena.  No challenge, no real reason to get the best gear, no way to improve yourself really.  It's not like you will go into CD with max charm gear.  There is no fun in helping noobs anymore when you are bored. There really isn't a reason for people to help you farm or level or do quests.  And trying to get a party with all classes to farm will be really tough and we will be like scouts in dungeons, people will let us be there but not seek us out for the team.  So it will really change the role of cleric and the whole idea of them being able to support the team in everything.  

 

Not to mention all the money we have spent on party buffs throughout the years, and gear and skills that will be worthless.  That will really get people raging I would think.  

 

In my opinion it is time to add some new content, time to fix some of the problems in game, time to get the database done.  Stop messing with classes and the system.  People want the big things changed and the classes are basically balanced atm.  Everyone says some tweaks here and there.  But too much time will have to be spent on the buff system you are suggesting and to me it is not the way to go - reasons see above.  We want new gear, better drops system, better crafting system, new content, etc.  

Edited by Bendersmom, 27 April 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[LeenaLove]

Suddenly making a cleric to go into Cd will only give you half of the picture.  Playing it a lot and for a long time will give you a much better picture.  

And I guess my issue is about changing the function of a class that I have played, and enjoyed playing, for years.  It is kind of akin to saying that knights are attackers and support but we think taunt is too much so we are going to take it away.  I think that is changing the function and fun of the class.

 

I understand that a lot of you think the Buffs are too OP.  And if you are talking an ubuffed team against a buffed team you are definitely right.  But in all other scenarios (1vs1, 1vs3 clerics, etc.) both teams typically have equal buffs.  And in TG wars everyone buffs up with a max int cleric outside.  In dungeons it is so hard to do a dungeon without a cleric, but it can be done and is challenging.  but if you have a cleric all get the same buffs.  And you can level and farm without buffs but yes, it is much easier to do it with a cleric.  But it is not necessary.

 

So if you get rid of buffs or even take them from the cleric and distribute them throughout all of the classes I think people will be crying like hell that they can't get a good party so they can get all of the buffs.  And I don't think it will make more players play the under powered classes just to give others a party buff.  And dungeons only allow 5 people so if you don't group up before hand you will not be sure to get all of the buffs, and even then some will be missing.  And people won't go randomly into dungeons either, not sure what team they will get.  If you are trying to level in Rose as it is, you will only have your self buffs, unless you are really lucky and find someone else to party with. And the mobs will probably have to be changed for those that only have partial or no buffs.  

 

In addition, a lot of people that have played cleric a long time have played it because they like to help the "team".  We don't (or at least didn't in the past) level as fast as the fighters since we don't kill well, a FS cleric can't go out and farm alone anymore, a FS cleric can't do a dungeon without buffs and help from other classes (we can't kill anything).  And why would you want a FS cleric in dungeons if they don't have buffs?  People can use pots and really don't need many heals (although that will probably change without buffs).

 

To me, just being able to heal is kind of worthless.  That is a lame skill really and only needed in Game Arena.  No challenge, no real reason to get the best gear, no way to improve yourself really.  It's not like you will go into CD with max charm gear.  There is no fun in helping noobs anymore when you are bored. There really isn't a reason for people to help you farm or level or do quests.  And trying to get a party with all classes to farm will be really tough and we will be like scouts in dungeons, people will let us be there but not seek us out for the team.  So it will really change the role of cleric and the whole idea of them being able to support the team in everything.  

 

Not to mention all the money we have spent on party buffs throughout the years, and gear and skills that will be worthless.  That will really get people raging I would think.  

 

In my opinion it is time to add some new content, time to fix some of the problems in game, time to get the database done.  Stop messing with classes and the system.  People want the big things changed and the classes are basically balanced atm.  Everyone says some tweaks here and there.  But too much time will have to be spent on the buff system you are suggesting and to me it is not the way to go - reasons see above.  We want new gear, better drops system, better crafting system, new content, etc.  

 

They really do not understand the hell they're going too stir up. It's getting too the point where, there's no reason to even focus on this game when everything that we adjust they, get's changed right away. Honestly, work on new content and everything else bendersmom just stated. Screwing up the cleric class that much will just reduce this games numbers even more. Have you GM not realised that everytime you screw this game up even more, the numbers drop? I'm not even getting started on everything else you're doing wrong with this pegasus update, but this is just a big NO-NO. But yeah, go listen too feuer because he did wonders in his suggestions for this game so far. Keep it up the great work!

[Bendersmom]

I have not played Pegasus yet.  And I would imagine the changes to buffs are not a huge thing.  And once pegasus is up with Leonis server I will try it.  But again, I don't think that the changes to buffs are that big of a deal.  It is really about the constant changes to clerics I guess.  And I really don't believe that giving each class a party buff and taking them from the cleric is the right way to go.  Most people play the other classes to kill and be active and do damage.  Or be able to go farm or quest alone if they have to.  Most of the players are not going to take the party buff just to help the party.  I might be wrong, but in my experience that is how the players play.  And I really don't understand the difference in lowering the buffs or keeping them the same.  There will still be a difference between those with buffs and those without.  And a team with no buffs will not bother fighting in CD.  So maybe I am missing the point.  I still say do the change to have all classes have a buff and take the cleric's away or leave it as it is and move on to other things.  And if you take the buffs away you will need to think about ways to make the cleric worthwhile to play....and just being able to heal isn't the answer.  

[Valakas]

I have not played Pegasus yet.  And I would imagine the changes to buffs are not a huge thing.  And once pegasus is up with Leonis server I will try it.  But again, I don't think that the changes to buffs are that big of a deal.  It is really about the constant changes to clerics I guess.  And I really don't believe that giving each class a party buff and taking them from the cleric is the right way to go.  Most people play the other classes to kill and be active and do damage.  Or be able to go farm or quest alone if they have to.  Most of the players are not going to take the party buff just to help the party.  I might be wrong, but in my experience that is how the players play.  And I really don't understand the difference in lowering the buffs or keeping them the same.  There will still be a difference between those with buffs and those without.  And a team with no buffs will not bother fighting in CD.  So maybe I am missing the point.  I still say do the change to have all classes have a buff and take the cleric's away or leave it as it is and move on to other things.  And if you take the buffs away you will need to think about ways to make the cleric worthwhile to play....and just being able to heal isn't the answer.  

If buffs are taken off we need to consider the impact of it on DG and other GA mode as well. They may have been addressed with a solution but I haven't been reading.  DP and DG are all capped at 5 players maxed , taking buffs away from clerics will be a devastating blow to these players. 

But buffs of a cleric as an essential base plus the self buffs of individual classes that excel more in a particular of their buffs could do the trick. This will of course require higher Charm and charm based gears. Will definitely damage the in-game market even more if carried on. I Strongly suggest extra precautions and considerations be made before making any final decision regarding this. 

Do understand that no matter how small a stone is, if u throw it into a huge calm lake, it will create ripple that will travel throughout the entire lake. Throw a rock of this size into the lake will cause some water be overflown out from the lake. A very logical question here is, how big is our lake ? And exactly how big this rock is ?  

I am not for or against anything here, i am a very adaptive player and no matter how things are , I try my best to make the best out of it and refuse to surrender. I am only suggesting that other elements be taken into consideration. It will have a chain effect , so please be extra careful and gentle if you must  , to lower the risk and effect it will have on the general public. 

[Cristal]

Leo...what ever you guys intend to make changes on cleric please stop. It will make the cleric from Hero to Zero. I believe current cleric is good enough for a fair and good game play. Please concentrate on others classes and others  that need more attention. Like dealer class.   

[MidnightSmurf]

@

3722121031200347517

I didnt say remove buffs, except in one THEORY crafting post. where I also stated it would not be a good idea to do it until much later. You miss-interpret far too much to be interjecting or attempting to point out a factual statement about my thoughts. 

Eventually, there should be a separation between Buffs + Heals. They're not the same type of support function, and should eventually be separated. Not saying REMOVE them from clerics, I'm saying they should be set apart, in a method that al lbuffs across all channels & Classes are equal, but using a class feature buff [Hawker Mspd] is more beneficial for one self/party. Is that really so hard to understand? 

 

I think I understand what you're trying to say here, lemme try to give an example to see if I got it right. You kinda wanna divide the cleric tree into 2 mini-classes kinda. I've seen this in many other games I've played; how one can be a type of Enchatress that focuses more on buffs while another section is more about healing and there's often some kinda support from a third class as well that's insignificant compared to the other two but still there as a support-option. In these games buffs hasn't had such a radical effect on gameplay, you could play without and still not be a complete weakling.
The problem is that buffs has such a mega-affect on gameplay in Rose and I think myself, and many others, would hate to see buffs go. They are good fun after all.

 

 

Perhaps it's better to stick with how Rose has been for once rather then changing it up too much. It's leading to frustration among the players when this skill balancing aint finishing soon enough and fundamentals keep changing. I, believe we, want some sort of stability in the game. Clerics are here to support, let's make them feel it worthwhile. I like the return of BC's but I think they gotten a tiny bit too good and is overshadowing the FS currently. We don't have to nerf the BC, we can buff the FS a little bit. And we can buff the FS in ways that doesn't affect the class itself. We can adjust other classes to have less impact on what the clerics need to do. For one thing I hear many is saying that the dual speed debuff is OP. Have you seen it when they use it in SoD? It's kinda fun. By nerfing this a bit then purify aint that much of an aspect anymore in that scenario; it's fair that the dual and team get a chance to kill the person but it wont be a sure kill cause if they don't get the kill fast enough the person get a chance to actually run away.. And we don't have to nerf the slow itself, we can nerf the cooldown - up it by quite a bit so you can't "spam" it. See where I'm going, we don't have to change the FS anymore, give us some stability and do minor changes. Naturally if a change is desperatly needed I'm not saying we shouldn't, I'm saying there are other options to consider as well.

I'm looking forward to when the selection is done so we can get a more organized feedback on things. I don't understand why this is posted pre-that. Let the representatives gather constructive feedback from the community in forums but mainly in game. It's in-game we see most players, we're a mere fraction on these forums that are active. This is the dev gathering information once again, want the representatives to sort it through later? Let them know before so they know what they're supposed to do, it's nothing other then fair imo. Give them information of what changes you're thinking of to help guide them in their search for feedback on things given by the community in-game as well. Isn't that their purpose after all.  Putting things on pegasus for testing, some radical changes, before the voting of representatives is done.
Either you want their help or you don't. And the arguement that you wanna hear the commuities feedback isn't wrong but given the fact you are having a voting for class representatives at this very moment and then throw this class changes out before the voting is done tells me something. It's done backwards.

[Infinity49]

You are going too far with this update.

Clerics have always been healers & buffers. You can't blow the buff system like that and destroy months/years of work from the clerics to gear themselves/spending money in tomes etc.

Even if I agree to decrease the impact of buffs in game (less damages/more survi/more healing possibilities in PvP/more interesting fights/slightly increase difficulties in PvM), the other classes should not have better buffs than clerics, that's just a huge non-sense.

 

I'm glad to see a update on soldier/axe champ (they will cut us in 2 : D).

 

I also think ROSE need more contents. This will probably make players happier than modified classes every months, and also bring new/old players back ig.

 

And please, we really need a system to make fair team in PvP, one of the biggest issue of ROSE. Just make a system where people choose between DPS/SUPPORT/TANK to create teams. 

 

I will dl Pegasus when i will be back to test this, but even without playing, that's kinda scary.

Edited by Infinity49, 27 April 2014 - 10:42 PM.

[Feuer]

I understand that a lot of you think the Buffs are too OP.  And if you are talking an ubuffed team against a buffed team you are definitely right.

 

And in TG wars everyone buffs up with a max int cleric outside. 

 

 

1: Completely validates my point

 

2: Max int? ....

[MidnightSmurf]

Obviously she meant max Charm + Int