876 replies to this topic

[Nirvanna21]

if people hate gramps decide to do bounty boards instead, then are not the bounty boards replacing gramps for these people? instead of arguing semantics, can you address the point i made regarding embs? you claim to want to give newbies a shot but you're taking away something that helps them level the playing field.

 

What something was intended for and what people use it for are always going to be different things

 

 

Yeah, I tried that. Apparently I'm the only one willing to step up and get my hands dirty.

 

The thing is, like most things proposed in most games, people are usually pretty hesitant about them. They like them a hell of a lot more once implemented and of personal use.

Edited by Nirvanna21, 12 June 2015 - 05:53 PM.

[Necrohealiac]

i'd still like a response from zero. how do you propose people who decide to forgo gramps and go w/ bounty boards get embs if the embs are removed from bounty boards?

also i find it ironic that in a thread requesting feedback, feedback is completely blown/brushed off.

[Inubashiri]

Okay okay okay, lets all calm down and take a step back.

 

If EMB is being abuse, chunk them and replace it with something else...BG Badges or Prize Medals come to mind just to name a few.

 

We can give feed back with out the friction.  As someone who has gone thru this same process of being a lightning rod or the face of some project.  Less confrontation and more convincing...you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar.

[Necrohealiac]

it was a perfectly reasonable question. apologies if the tone came across as negative in any way. however, i'd still like a response to it. by the way, i couldn't care less about EMBs. i get like 2 a week total; if i wanted to farm that stuff i'd run low TI on my 40+ level 99s. i use BBs primarily to level.

keep in mind that for non-vips, reset stones are required to get to third class. additionally, you need 1.285 mil just to trans. selling reset stones via embs is a surefire way to get the zeny/items you need to advance in this game. that's not even mentioning what other useful things embs can be exchanged for via merry badger.

[Toxn]

If EMB is being abuse, chunk them and replace it with something else...BG Badges or Prize Medals come to mind just to name a few.

 

 

The only true abuse I have seen actually done for EMBs is when novus gets put into gramps. Removing EMBs doesn't change anything at all for established players, most of them most likely don't even care that the boards give EMBs. But it does hurt new players as Necro has said above me.

 

Removing all EMBs because of 1 massive exploit is probably the worst possible ways to go about a situation.

Edited by Toxn, 12 June 2015 - 06:33 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

The Bounty Boards are supposed to be tested on, not heavily relied on as if they're finished products. People shouldn't expect them not to change.

If people want to go back to Gramps because they don't want to help test them anymore, I'm not going to stop them. Just because people don't treat the boards as unfinished products, that doesn't mean they aren't.

[Toxn]

Might as well stop making multiple boards in that case.

 

Because without an incentive to do entire boards, there is no reason to do 99% of the boards existing. Why do goats, sleeper and pecos when Harpy is faster and gives more reward why do any of the licherns on Mora's board as two examples.

 

Offering so many options but no reason to do them is bad design

Edited by Toxn, 12 June 2015 - 06:40 PM.

[fuyukikun]

how long the test period will end?

[ZeroTigress]

Might as well stop making multiple boards in that case.
 
Because without an incentive to do entire boards, there is no reason to do 99% of the boards existing. Why do goats, sleeper and pecos when Harpy is faster and gives more reward why do any of the licherns on Mora's board as two examples.
 
Offering so many options but no reason to do them is bad design

Guess you can call me kRO 2.0.
 

how long the test period will end?

Depends on how long it takes for the iRO team to help me finish the boards.

[Nirvanna21]

it was a perfectly reasonable question. apologies if the tone came across as negative in any way. however, i'd still like a response to it. by the way, i couldn't care less about EMBs. i get like 2 a week total; if i wanted to farm that stuff i'd run low TI on my 40+ level 99s. i use BBs primarily to level.

keep in mind that for non-vips, reset stones are required to get to third class. additionally, you need 1.285 mil just to trans. selling reset stones via embs is a surefire way to get the zeny/items you need to advance in this game. that's not even mentioning what other useful things embs can be exchanged for via merry badger.

 

I agree with the reset stone, not so much with the zeny amount. It is a lot more easier nowadays to save up that amount of zeny even if you didn't loot while leveling.

 

EMB shouldn't be what someone strives for to get further in the game.

 

The only true abuse I have seen actually done for EMBs is when novus gets put into gramps. Removing EMBs doesn't change anything at all for established players, most of them most likely don't even care that the boards give EMBs. But it does hurt new players as Necro has said above me.

 

Removing all EMBs because of 1 massive exploit is probably the worst possible ways to go about a situation.

 

A lot of things get removed because something was exploited. Case and point, Endless Tower.

 

Might as well stop making multiple boards in that case.

 

Because without an incentive to do entire boards, there is no reason to do 99% of the boards existing. Why do goats, sleeper and pecos when Harpy is faster and gives more reward why do any of the licherns on Mora's board as two examples.

 

Offering so many options but no reason to do them is bad design

 

Not true, the point of multiple boards isn't to hoard each and every quest but to offer a variety of kills for a variety of builds. The boards in general encourage exploration but the targets of the boards need to be broad, not just experienced base. Board experience should always be X amount of the combined experience earnt killing X amount of mobs. In the case of Harpies, if they happen to give more experience then that's really all she wrote, and mobbing them would be easy because they are fast and aggressive. This is pointing out how a monster was developed by the game as opposed to how the BB system works with it.

[Necrohealiac]

I agree with the reset stone, not so much with the zeny amount. It is a lot more easier nowadays to save up that amount of zeny even if you didn't loot while leveling.

i guess you can run bbs 37x to get the zeny you need to transcend. unlike other MMOs, doing quests in and of itself does not award you with zeny.
 

EMB shouldn't be what someone strives for to get further in the game.

 
their utility doesn't end with reset stones. reset stones just happen to be the only thing that can be sold. kvm, job manuals, life insurance, and tokens of seigfried are all super useful as well. kafra cards have also been discussed as being added in the future. honestly, newbies need to start somewhere, short of just opening their wallet and shoving their cash into WP.
 

A lot of things get removed because something was exploited. Case and point, Endless Tower.

correct me if i'm wrong but ET today actually resembles the way kRO was always meant to be. I'm not sure why iRO had a customized build in the first place.

Edited by Necrohealiac, 12 June 2015 - 07:45 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

i guess you can run bbs 37x to get the zeny you need to transcend. unlike other MMOs, doing quests in and of itself does not award you with zeny.
 
 
their utility doesn't end with reset stones. reset stones just happen to be the only thing that can be sold. kvm, job manuals, life insurance, and tokens of seigfried are all super useful as well. kafra cards have also been discussed as being added in the future. honestly, newbies need to start somewhere, short of just opening their wallet and shoving their cash into WP.
 

correct me if i'm wrong but ET today actually resembles the way kRO was always meant to be. I'm not sure why iRO had a customized build in the first place.

 

Re: the first thing

 

There are also drops as well, oddly enough while small amounts in the beginning don't show a lot of promise they add up to small chunks of zeny at late game.

 

You can even have a merchant alt to oversell goods to npcs (an even easier feat nowadays thanks for the HUGE boost you get at lower levels thanks to the starting zones and early boards).

 

Re: reset stones.

 

True, but all of the mentioned items outside of KVM are kafra shop items; items purely meant to make the game more convenient. It is nice at all that they give players access to these outside of paying considering they serve as nothing more than enhancers. And KVM technically should be farmed by performing in battlegrounds; the issue being it really isn't feasible (at least I don't think it is, never really bothered with it myself so don't know how active they are now).

 

Re: endless tower.

 

And yep, true, but hot damn if the iRO version wasn't better. Never have I felt so punished for dying without tokens when you make a mistake. The new ET is fun and challenging to a degree, but a horrible experience overall in terms of mistakes having been made. Just gonna say it, not everything kRO implements is better.

 

But seriously, newbies do need to start somewhere, but with all of the stuff that is available now, they don't "need" EMB to get places, what they "need" is to truck on, save up and slowly progress through the game like others have.

[Necrohealiac]

well as much as we might all pine for the days of paid subscriptions and hundreds of people in a single castle every woe, it's a new era of gaming and making it prohibitively tough for completely fresh players to move on up is ultimately going to hurt WP's bottom line.

also re: ET yeah but as you can see, a combination of poor coding and unsavory people trying to get an edge over the competition always leads to a good thing being ruined. and ET's just one such example.

Edited by Necrohealiac, 12 June 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

well as much as we might all pine for the days of paid subscriptions and hundreds of people in a single castle every woe, it's a new era of gaming and making it prohibitively tough for completely fresh players to move on up is ultimately going to hurt WP's bottom line.

And giving away Kafra items for free doesn't hurt WP's bottom line?

Last I checked, people came back to RO because other MMOs were too easy. So allowing players to level up quickly so they can get bored faster and leave the game doesn't really help, either.

[Necrohealiac]

And giving away Kafra items for free doesn't hurt WP's bottom line?

not if it ends up with the player paying for subscription. everyone knows VIP is like crack. all you need is a taste and you're hooked.

Last I checked, people came back to RO because other MMOs were too easy.

i can't believe you believe this.

[ZeroTigress]

not if it ends up with the player paying for subscription. everyone knows VIP is like crack. all you need is a taste and you're hooked.

Most players would never pay for VIP if free alternatives exist.

i can't believe you believe this.

I'm still here after playing several other MMORPGs. There is some truth to it.

[Nirvanna21]

not if it ends up with the player paying for subscription. everyone knows VIP is like crack. all you need is a taste and you're hooked.


i can't believe you believe this.

 

People either pay for VIP or they don't xD Usually giving away certain items doesn't act as an incentive in this case, though maybe for leveling players showing them the difference between % loss would do.

 

Most players would never pay for VIP if free alternatives exist.


I'm still here after playing several other MMORPGs. There is some truth to it.

 

True and true. RO always seems to get me back somehow, and the funny thing is there isn't really a reason too it, it just does.

[Necrohealiac]

Most players would never pay for VIP if free alternatives exist.

you can get fake vip via reset stones in the game, but it's obviously nowhere as powerful as normal vip. however, you still need reset stones for that, and you can get reset stones via EMBs. this mini-vip has been around forever but i doubt actual VIP sales have been diminished by this.

I'm still here after playing several other MMORPGs. There is some truth to it.

RO may keep calling you back (hell it called me back) but is it truly because the other MMOs are too easy?

RO always seems to get me back somehow, and the funny thing is there isn't really a reason too it, it just does.

RO has a unique large-scale pvp system that i've never seen replicated in any other MMO i've played, has a unique 2D/3D combination of gameplay, and my god the cute hats. what you won't find on the list is the korean grinder nature of the game as something that appeals to the playerbase. if that were the case people wouldn't be asking for exp events and bmx3s as they scramble to get to max level as fast as possible.

[ZeroTigress]

you can get fake vip via reset stones in the game, but it's obviously nowhere as powerful as normal vip. however, you still need reset stones for that, and you can get reset stones via EMBs. this mini-vip has been around forever but i doubt actual VIP sales have been diminished by this.

VIP buffer - Players have already come up with buff bots that the CMs are allowing to exist.
VIP EXP/Drop Bonus - Players can just buy manuals and gum from others.
VIP teleports - Already covered by teleporting alts.

VIP sales may have not been diminished, but they're not rising that much either. How many regions of the world do we host now and our sales are still not significant enough for kRO to give a crap? If we want to make VIP appealing, we need to hinder the free alternatives. Otherwise people aren't going to see much reason to shell out for VIP.
 

RO may keep calling you back (hell it called me back) but is it truly because the other MMOs are too easy?

That's the most common complaint I hear about other MMOs and I've played enough of them to see that trend.

[1392140604170018137]

Lol Vip buffs stack with regular buffs. Non VIPs can buff themselves until they're blue in the face but can't readily get the +7 to all stats without vip

That's the most common complaint I hear about other MMOs and I've played enough of them to see that trend.

Other mmos being too easy doesn't mean that people flock to RO because it's super grindy. No one outside of Korea wants to spend weeks leveling on the same map on the same monsters till the world implodes. Do you?

Edited by 1392140604170018137, 13 June 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

Lol Vip buffs stack with regular buffs. Non VIPs can buff themselves until they're blue in the face but can't readily get the +7 to all stats without vip

The fact remains that unless VIPs provide something in-game that players absolutely cannot get for free in some way, it's not going to be enticing enough to attract a lot of players to buy it.

[Nirvanna21]

Lol Vip buffs stack with regular buffs. Non VIPs can buff themselves until they're blue in the face but can't readily get the +7 to all stats without vip

Other mmos being too easy doesn't mean that people flock to RO because it's super grindy. No one outside of Korea wants to spend weeks leveling on the same map on the same monsters till the world implodes. Do you?

 

Some do, but you would be surprised sometimes at the sheer level of botting that accompanies most korean players in MMOs.

[1392140604170018137]

The fact remains that unless VIPs provide something in-game that players absolutely cannot get for free in some way, it's not going to be enticing enough to attract a lot of players to buy it.

  

You are limited to 3 chars per account unless you get legit VIP. That is the biggest difference and I would argue a critical one. more chars per account means more flexibility in your playstyle and makes it so the player has many options when tackling content.

Some do, but you would be surprised sometimes at the sheer level of botting that accompanies most korean players in MMOs.

So the sheer amount of botting is a damming indictment of just how unappealing it is to level in grinders like RO. This just further proves the point that people play this game for reasons other than it being super fun to grind like 260+ levels per char. Why are pservers so popular?

[Necrohealiac]

Why are pservers so popular?

probably the pvp scene. most servers have inflated exp rates so you get to whatever the max level is in an instant. they can then go and start on the end game content. i have no idea what the numbers are like population wise across the various illegal servers out there, but i would (hope) that iRO at least has an advantage in that regard. make it easier for players to get up and running here and ideally you'll start bringing players back.

[Nirvanna21]

  

You are limited to 3 chars per account unless you get legit VIP. That is the biggest difference and I would argue a critical one. more chars per account means more flexibility in your playstyle and makes it so the player has many options when tackling content.


So the sheer amount of botting is a damming indictment of just how unappealing it is to level in grinders like RO. This just further proves the point that people play this game for reasons other than it being super fun to grind like 260+ levels per char. Why are pservers so popular?

 

It used to be because it was free and there was a lot of customisation that came with private servers. The only thing they have now is speed and accessibility to items.

 

To be honest it is nice to see iRO having adopted certain "ideas" from pservers, but they can't follow all the things a pserver offers otherwise it would ruin the game right to the bitter end.