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Class Specific Headgear Foundry Round 2


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#76 Ramen

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 09:31 AM

You know, I still feel that for the Shadow Chaser hat, it would be a really good idea to make it similar to the Witch's Pumpkin Hat and have various buffs tied into wearing it with different masks, that way the hat in and of itself wouldn't be so overpowered, and you could still get all the buffs that you'd want, since Shadow Chaser is pretty much the most diverse class in the game.  This would also allow my autocast skills idea to work, since you wouldn't be able to wear a CD in Mouth while wearing a mask at the same time.  It would also give some value to the various middle & lower masks.

 

So maybe something like this...

 

Annoyed Mask - ATK buffs

 

Goblin Mask - Ranged Buffs

 

Surprised Mask - MATK Buffs

 

Poker Face - Heal Bonus (yes, it is doable to be a healer Chaser. I've supported parties in high TI's with my Chaser in the past)

 

Mr. Smile - Some minor buff like atk+10 matk+10

 

Goblin Leader Mask -  Powerful Buffs to ATK, MATK, ASPD, and Invisibility (Since it's a relatively more difficult mask to get)

 

It doesn't have to be like this exactly, but considering the kind of class Shadow Chaser is, I really think that combining the hat with these masks would be a great way to give Shadow Chasers some flair, and would also give some use to otherwise useless items.


Edited by Ramen, 31 July 2014 - 09:31 AM.

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#77 Kadelia

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:33 AM

Interesting idea, I wonder how keen on that the devs would be...
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#78 belld1711

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:56 PM

I don't really see anyone using cannon spear much, so it might be worth looking into.

 

I think the reason people don't use Cannon Spear has to do more with aligning with the mobs more than the stats of the skill. I think I read somewhere it's kind of the equivalent to using a vertical firewall. If your not right online with the mobs, then it acts all weird, or something. I'll try it out and see.

 

EDIT- Hmmm. Yeah, considering the low damage, the cooldown, and SP cost (at least with my setup), it is pretty subpar right now. Alright, I can get behind this...


Edited by belld1711, 31 July 2014 - 01:09 PM.

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#79 ALSJ

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:52 PM

STR is a heavy factor for Cannon Spear's damage, being directly in the formula. So items like Megs greatly assist it. Its still best to use it in tandem with another skill, like strict lining with Overbrand in a PvM sense, which doesn't change much.


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#80 Ramen

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:21 PM

So I'm curious on how testing is going for the first round, and when we could expect to get to test out some of these suggestions.  Will there be the option to test out each option, or are the options going to be decided behind the scenes and we'll just be stuck with what is decided on?


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#81 Spooky34

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:07 PM

what year this will be implement? :yawn:

how about Omni horn? :yawn:

 

why not allow them to become costume headger same process on king poring hat (+7 head gear> costume)

or  Alora (Eden-NPC) costume exchanger (+8 head gear >> costume)

while waiting for the headgear re-stat........................ :yawn:


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#82 VidarWolf

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:07 AM

to be sincere i would like Very normal hat to buff Triangle shot by more than a mere 25%~30% as a lot of ppl have been suggesting, this is mainly because of one hat that got released in kRO no more than a year ago

 

 

Old Shadow Handicraft gives 4 ATK and MATK every refine and 25% triangle shot damage every 2 refines without limit. i know it is a lvl 170 hat but the skill is worthless with just a 30% buff  they had to increase the damage every 2 refines from 10% to 25% just to make the skill atractive at all

 

 

i would do something like what riakuta said and increase the damage to at least 50% for it to at least be interesting to be used remember the skill haves Cast Time, and 0.5 cast delay no matter the level and requires a huge amount of AGI (120 is better for damage than any points you could invest in luk or dex ) and even with a catapult you require it to be at least at +12 (24% more damage) to be better than an orc archer bow


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#83 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:06 AM

Well then, this is my own proposal for the SC hat, based on one of Ramen's and Jaye's ideas:

 

Very Normal Hat [1]

 

For every level of Snatch learned, HIT + 2, increase damage with Fatal Manace by 10%.

Reduce aftercast delay of all skills by 1% per refine level on the headgear.

 

If upgraded to +7 or higher:

For every Masquerade skill mastered, increase damage with Feint Bomb by 35%.

Reduce this bonus by 5% per 10 Job Levels.

 

If upgraded to +9 or higher:

For every level of Double Strafing learned, Increase Triangle Shot damage by 5%.

 

 

I did some calculations on the improved feint bomb regarding possible no. of masqs that can be maxed at job levels.

 

job level:

0~9 - feint bomb shouldn't do damage because of the formula. Max possible: level 3 Feint Bomb at job 8

10~19 - feint bomb multiplier is now 30% per maxed Masquerade. Max possible: 3 maxed Masquerades at job 18

20~29 - feint bomb multiplier is now 25% per maxed Masquerade. Max possible: 6 maxed Masquerades at job 27

30~     - feint bomb multiplier is now 20% per maxed Masquerade.

40~     - feint bomb multiplier is now 15% per maxed Masquerade.

50       - feint bomb multiplier is now 10% per maxed Masquerade.

 

Aftercast delay reduction is there mainly to cater to triangle shot. It would help with the 0.5 sec cast delay I suppose.

Also, it is impossible to go for every boost given by the hat while still keeping maxed intimidate/preserve in the 2nd class tree.

 

If damage seems too high(in particular for feint bomb due to its unique formula), it could be toned down I suppose.


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#84 Kadelia

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:20 AM

I have to keep reminding people, rewarding based on double strafe level isn't too sensical, since you need double strafe 7 to even get triangle shot. You're only rewarding for the last 3 points, so the difference between someone who got Triangle shot, and someone who would want to sink in for a pvm build, would be 15% of the 50%, there.

 

Also triangle shot does not have an after cast delay. It has a skill-specific cooldown. And not a very long one (0.5 seconds).

 

I feel like making an action replay to show people triangle shot, it may help people decide what would be a fair boost to it.

 

(Halts work on this post while recording action replay in game ... ... ... ... ... DONE!)

 

http://www.megafileu...y-0001-rrf.html

 

(I don't really know any tasteful sites for any type of file upload offhand so I googled and took the first lame one I got xP).

 

Anyways! What to take away from this video?

- Fairly well equipped chaser!

- Chaser is 142/39

- I am doing about 10-13k damage Triangle Shots and 25-30k Arrow Storms.

- I can do about 3-4 triangle shot for every arrow storm.

- I have a LOT of SP, but it goes down fast!

- I am not using that one catapult weapon, but its only a hair better than my orc archer bow.

 

So what is needed? Definitely an SP saver... like Triangle Shot SP cost -25!

Also, like +50% triangle shot damage wouldn't hurt.


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#85 Zayaan

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:32 AM

Also triangle shot does not have an after cast delay. It has a skill-specific cooldown. And not a very long one (0.5 seconds).

 

I watched your replay and it looked like after cast delay to me. All icons got the cat paw icon when you used Triangle Shot.


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#86 Kadelia

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:35 AM

I could be wrong, but regardless, the delay doesn't need to be shortened.


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#87 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:56 AM

Hmm I guess sp is a pretty big issue... Reproduce does eat a lot of sp as well.

I'll modify it(quite a bit) tomorrow. Thanks for going through the trouble of getting a replay.
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#88 michaeleeli

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:05 PM

Just wanted to put this old post about the SC hat from the old thread: http://forums.warppo...eview-3/page-15
 

I have re-read the whole thread and posted a list of every forum member's comment on the chaser hat (so to not miss out anything/be biased). I have added the page number on every reference so you can go back and check it quickly.

Initial comment:
michaeleeli (Pages 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15):
1) Change the 120 base INT requirement to a HBP-like bonus, e.g. At 90 base AGI increase aspd by 1, at 90 base INT increase MATK by 20, etc.
2) Change the +9 effect into +1 aspd per upgrade until +12. Or change it to at +9 increase %MATK (so no need to +12).
3) Halve skill delays from auto-spell to allow more actions.
4) Increase resistance.
5) Buff up Invisibility, such as giving it life steal or bonus aspd/atk/matk.

xFireize (Pages 1, 2):
Fully agrees with removing 120 base INT requirement.
Idea of changing it to base AGI requirement.

Serigeese (Pages 1, 2, 3, 4):
Fully agrees with replacing 120 base INT requirement for HBP-like bonus.
Agrees with reducing skill delay from auto-spell.
Idea for increasing auto-spell proc chance.

Ramen (Pages 2, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14):
Fully agrees with replacing 120 base INT requirement for HBP-like bonus.
Agrees with extra aspd bonus.
Agrees with reducing auto-spell skill delay.
Agrees with buffing Invisibility.
Agrees with increasing auto-spell proc chance.
Idea for buffing Triangle shot damage.
Idea for buffing Fatal Menance and Feint Bomb.

asayuu (Pages 2, 3):
Fully agrees with removing 120 base INT requirement.
Idea for changing the base INT requirement to kRO's fallen angel wing-like (so base stats increase other stat points).
Idea of buffing Triangle Shot/ranged damage.
Disagrees with auto-spell increase proc chance; too complicated to code.

Eternal (Page 2):
Fully agrees with removing 120 base INT requirement.
Agrees with more bonus aspd.

Jaye (Pages 13, 14, 15)
Disagrees with purely flat aspd, instead scale it with AGI to give +% aspd and flat aspd. E.g. 90 base agi +10% aspd, 105 base agi +5% aspd, 120 base agi +2 flat aspd.
Agrees with buffing up Triangle Shot damage.

Ebersu (Pages 13, 14)
Fully agrees with replacing 120 base INT requirement for HBP-like bonus.
Agrees with Ramen's ASPD/Stat bonuses.


Analysis:
I didn't miss out any information so I tried not to be biased at all, it was simply information gathering; so as you can see:
100% of the people agreed on removing the 120 base INT requirement. 99% of the people wants it to be replaced with HBP-like bonus, or at least something that is scaled with multiple stats.
The people who commented on skill delay reduction all agreed with it; although this is hard to do without over-powering other uses.
Most people who commented on the ASPD buff mostly agreed to +5 aspd; although calculations show that +3/+4 should be the maximum limit you can gain from the hat. However, there were also discussions on changing it to +% aspd instead, so that it would scale better for new players.

 

Major ideas that should still stick (and have no reason to change since then):

-Diversity. It's the point of these hats and SC has a chance to be one of the classes to have more diverse options to level with. Have SC Hat give HBP-like bonuses, at least on two important aspects: MATK, ASPD. It would be helpful to add HP/Reduc, ATK, FLEE, Ranged damage, etc.

-Remove 120 INT requirements because no one will ever do so for anything - even for a pure magic auto-spell build

 

Comments on Dev's comments:

Dev comments: They said that the magic attack rate is too high, and Shadow Chaser is able to get to ASPD 193 more easily than other jobs. Also they commented that giving magic and attack speed buffs would be perhaps too big a boost when using  auto-proc on attack spell weapons

 

- I wholeheartedly disagree with the ASPD part. Shadow Chasers are not able to get ASPD to 193 more easily than other jobs (Rangers have AGI boost, RK's have quicken/berserk, maestros have berserk guitars, etc).

In fact, since these headgears are designed for alternative leveling, they are more challenging to do for the masses. Not everyone has unlimited healing and expensive equipment. Thus, we can conclude for most 90% of leveling SC's a shield is needed more than half the time for auto-spell in order to survive. This makes shadow chasers even harder to reach 193 ASPD - not to mention investing 120 AGI means horrible hit rate against high level monsters, lower MATK, or lower VIT for defenses. 

Thus, the conclusion is that a minimum of +2 ASPD or 15% ASPD (depends if we want to favor lower level or higher levels). These can either be given by upgraded bonuses, scaled by stats, or scaled by level.

- Devs probably believe the MATK increase (+30%) is too high because of three conditions; remove the INT 120 requirement along with the 10% MATK increase and we have 20% MATK increase - very reasonable number. Also, 99% SC's don't even reach a reasonable MATK number so % MATK increase is nothing to be scared of.

- It is not a big boost to auto-spell because auto-spell has never been...strong enough to "abuse" or "butter through the game". It's like saying giving +1000% damage to Stone Throw in PvM. We can always smooth the curves by decreasing the numbers a bit on MATK/ASPD and give HP/Reduc/Flee/Heal etc effects.

 

 

 

My proposal of the hat (tried to stick with original proposition + old revision + new revision):

 

Original proposed effect: 

Increases physical attack and magic attack by 10% 

Increases MATK by 10% if wearer’s base INT is 120.

If base STR is 100 or higher, increase ATK by 50.

If base AGI is 100 or higher, ASPD +2 and increase Triangle Shot damage by 15%.

If base INT is 100 or higher, increase MATK by 60.

If base VIT is 100 or higher, reduce damage received from neutral damage by 10%.

If base DEX is 100 or higher, reduce SP cost for Triangle Shot damage by 15.

If upgraded to +7 or higher, increases ASPD by 2.

If upgraded to +9 or higher, increases MATK by additional 10%

For every level in Shadow Spell, increase MATK by 2.

For every level in Vulture's Eye, increase Triangle Shot damage by 2%.

 

 

Numbers were conjured a bit; I think VIT bonus can alternatively provide max HP AND max SP for lengthy leveling, or auto-cast Heal when attacking. LUK bonus could be something exclusive to Invisibility (If base LUK is 100 or higher, increase crit damage by 200% and 0.1% chance to gain HP/SP when attacking) since no matter what, leveling with Invisibility is a pain in the butt but can be fun to those who stick with it. AGI could provide ASPD +1 and % ASPD to cover both lower & higher level SC's.

It sounds weird but I swapped DEX's increase Triangle Shot to AGI (since that is what Triangle's damage based off of), and DEX gives supplementary damage along with SP reduce as a bonus.

 

Those who want to level with Triangle Shot can benefit from STR, AGI, DEX (I think more can be modified on this part though)

Those who want to level with Shadow Spell can benefit from AGI, INT, DEX

Those who want to level with Ignition Break can benefit from STR, VIT (also an alternative leveling method)

Those who want to level with Arrow Storm won't find this hat useful.

Those who want to level as Trapper, there are be better headgears than this.

Easy to code.


Edited by michaeleeli, 04 August 2014 - 02:34 PM.

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#89 Kadelia

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:48 PM

May want to consider what is currently capable without this hat:

 

With a +13 Isabella, 193 is achievable, probably without one of those bakonawa if you want RoFL or something.

 

Also possible to swap a bakanowa for a bison horn and use a thorn shield, so that you can reflect damage for more spell procs.

 

screen_Chaos112.jpg

 

 

Increases physical attack and magic attack by 10%  This is fine if this is as far as magic boosting build goes. Else devs will reject...

If base STR is 100 or higher, increase ATK by 50. This is probably fine

If base AGI is 100 or higher, ASPD +2 and increase Triangle Shot damage by 15%. Aspd+2 is entirely unncessary and it seems like you want the CEILING for a stat to be reached with mediocre/free equipment. Do not like. Triangle shot buffs are OK.

If base INT is 100 or higher, increase MATK by 60. Devs are going to reject this for sure.

If base VIT is 100 or higher, reduce damage received from neutral damage by 10%. Completely unnecessary and makes the hat too good, best in slot really, obsoletes guard's cap, etc.

If base DEX is 100 or higher, reduce SP cost for Triangle Shot damage by 15. Fine though I'd like to see a more drastic cut to the SP.

For every level in Shadow Spell, increase MATK by 2. even more matk boosts? I thought there were matk daggers coming with faceworm nest that makes boosting matk w/ this project unnecessary?

For every level in Vulture's Eye, increase Triangle Shot damage by 2%. Vulture 10 is required to even get triangle shot, this is pointless to reward by skill lvl on.

 

My opinions in red (negative feedback) and blue (positive feedback).

 

How about alternatives to boosting the shadow spell build, such as autocast lvl 1 heal on yourself when attacking, or magic attacks bypass 20% of enemy's mdef, etc?

What about refine-based effects? Aren't these hats set up for a +7 and +9 option?

 

How about this:

ATK, MATK +10%.

[If refined +7 or higher]
For every base 20 AGI, [Triangle Shot] Damage + 5%.
For every base 20 INT, bypass the magic defense of enemies by 2%.
For every base 20 DEX, ranged attacks +1%.
For every base 20 STR, Flee +3 and aspd +1%.

[If refined +9 or higher]
For every base 20 AGI, [Triangle Shot] Damage +10% instead of +5%, and if 120 base, reduce SP cost by 25.
For every base 20 INT, bypass the magic defense of enemies by 4% instead of 2%, and if 120 base, MATK +50.
For every base 20 DEX, ranged attacks +2% instead of 1%, and if 120 base, additional 10% ranged damage.
For every base 20 STR, Flee +5 and aspd +2%, and if 120 base, ATK +65.

Edited by Jaye, 04 August 2014 - 04:56 PM.

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#90 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:10 PM

I'd just like to point out that for atk boost in the 120 str part, 65 might seem a bit much simply because following the RO trend, gears give more matk than atk in such bonuses.

e.g. temporal int boots bonus vs temporal str boots, HBP bonuses.


While I did think that such bonuses would be nice before, I feel that the under-appreciated SC skills deserve a chance to shine.

SCs are diverse, but they can never match up to another class that they copy a skill from. Boosting their abilities like this will increase their damage, but it doesn't change the fact that their damage is inferior. If it did change, it would be too good, since SCs aren't supposed to.

Everyone uses reproduce in order to level. Most choose arrow storm due to obvious reasons, and the hat would make arrow storm the even more obvious option(due to ranged boost).

Since these hats boost and promote more obscure builds, wouldn't it make more sense to strengthen the unique skills that an SC possesses? I haven't seen anyone actually use Fatal Manace, much less use it for leveling. No other class has an AoE like that. Won't it be interesting to have a class that levels by damaging and gathering mobs at the same time due to teleportation?

Feint bomb too, is an interesting skill. It feels good when you press the button, see the mobs gather eagerly and you watch as your copy explodes -- until you see your horrendous damage and wish it did more damage. Again, no other class has a similar kind of AoE.

Last but not least triangle shot. Since bow chasers were given this new skill, it makes sense that this should be buffed considering how underwhelming it is right now.

Autospell SCs can achieve 193 aspd much more easily now thanks to temporal boots, and damage from runaway magic proc. Sure it eats sp fast, but moonlight dagger can be used to recover enough sp to recast shadow spell. After all the proc works even with 0 sp.

Not to mention in the future there will be faceworm queen's leg(a dagger) that gives 120 matk, has 180 atk, is a level 4 weapon with 2 slots, and is able to let player transform into faceworm queen while attacking and autospell lv1 EQ.

aspd is even more achievable via cenere card in a future update(next year mid year-ish probably), which is a garment card that grants +2% aspd per 10 base agi, allowing for a whopping +24% aspd from just this 1 card.

Having seen these things to come, I feel that the hat should be buffing the underused SC skills instead. Stat related buffs may be triumphed by another new kafra shop hat anytime(you never know), so I want to avoid it as much as possible.

Well that's what I think anyway. Sorry for wall of text. |||OTL

Edited by ShinKokuryuu, 04 August 2014 - 06:12 PM.

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#91 Kadelia

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:04 PM

Don't disagree or anything, but we looked into feint bomb and fatal menace, and buffing their damage doesn't seem to be an option.

 

Its better to treat them as a way to assist you in leveling with a reproduced skill (like feint bomb to protect yourself from mob while you arrow storm).


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#92 spikexp

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:30 PM

screen_Chaos112.jpg


so basically a sc needs a billion zeny to get the same aspd as a few million zeny blacksmith?

cruel truth for a poor player TwT
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#93 Ramen

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:18 PM

I'd just like to point out that for atk boost in the 120 str part, 65 might seem a bit much simply because following the RO trend, gears give more matk than atk in such bonuses.

e.g. temporal int boots bonus vs temporal str boots, HBP bonuses.


While I did think that such bonuses would be nice before, I feel that the under-appreciated SC skills deserve a chance to shine.

SCs are diverse, but they can never match up to another class that they copy a skill from. Boosting their abilities like this will increase their damage, but it doesn't change the fact that their damage is inferior. If it did change, it would be too good, since SCs aren't supposed to.

Everyone uses reproduce in order to level. Most choose arrow storm due to obvious reasons, and the hat would make arrow storm the even more obvious option(due to ranged boost).

Since these hats boost and promote more obscure builds, wouldn't it make more sense to strengthen the unique skills that an SC possesses? I haven't seen anyone actually use Fatal Manace, much less use it for leveling. No other class has an AoE like that. Won't it be interesting to have a class that levels by damaging and gathering mobs at the same time due to teleportation?

Feint bomb too, is an interesting skill. It feels good when you press the button, see the mobs gather eagerly and you watch as your copy explodes -- until you see your horrendous damage and wish it did more damage. Again, no other class has a similar kind of AoE.

Last but not least triangle shot. Since bow chasers were given this new skill, it makes sense that this should be buffed considering how underwhelming it is right now.

Autospell SCs can achieve 193 aspd much more easily now thanks to temporal boots, and damage from runaway magic proc. Sure it eats sp fast, but moonlight dagger can be used to recover enough sp to recast shadow spell. After all the proc works even with 0 sp.

Not to mention in the future there will be faceworm queen's leg(a dagger) that gives 120 matk, has 180 atk, is a level 4 weapon with 2 slots, and is able to let player transform into faceworm queen while attacking and autospell lv1 EQ.

aspd is even more achievable via cenere card in a future update(next year mid year-ish probably), which is a garment card that grants +2% aspd per 10 base agi, allowing for a whopping +24% aspd from just this 1 card.

Having seen these things to come, I feel that the hat should be buffing the underused SC skills instead. Stat related buffs may be triumphed by another new kafra shop hat anytime(you never know), so I want to avoid it as much as possible.

Well that's what I think anyway. Sorry for wall of text. |||OTL

 

Thanks for your enthusiasm, but we've already discussed buffing Feint Bomb and Fatal Menace.  It's obvious from the damage formulas that there's not much you can do to buff them.  The best method would be to simply rewrite the damage formula, but that's not something we can or should do through a hat.  To get respectable damage with Fatal Menace, you'd literally have to boost the damage by about 500%.  

 

It's really hard to do much that would make this hat particularly useful without overbuffing, being too specific, or making it a crappy hat.  That's why I was suggesting giving the hat other cool features that indirectly buff the non-conventional leveling builds.  Those would make it very desirable while not having to worry so much about whether matk or whatever else is getting buffed too much or too little.


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#94 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:26 PM

My worry with buffing non conventional builds -- what are considered non-conventional?

If we buff overall stats and damage such as ranged damage and matk, in the end people will still use the same skills as before to level, which defeats the purpose of the hat promoting alternate leveling styles.

If it's aspd, isabella and poring band do the job pretty well, along with temporal agi boots.

If it's matk, CoD greatly aids caster builds due to huge cast reduction and matk boost.

If it's atk or ranged damage, there's evil marching hat. And if ranged damage is buffed, everyone would just copy arrow storm like they normally do now.

I just can't see how buffing stats will help with the promoting lesser builds... unless I'm missing something big somewhere.

I support the triangle shot buffing, so I hope at least that goes in if feint bomb and fatal manace don't make it. I was thinking along the lines of using copied skills as support rather than the main killing skills.

e.g. reproducing shield spell to increase the power of fatal manace/feint bomb to make up for the damage, maybe copying lv10 snatch from samurai specter(if it's still possible) further increases buff to fatal manace, that sort.

Something like sacrificing copy slots or skills that you'd normally get in the skill tree to do decent damage.
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#95 VidarWolf

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:56 PM

 

How about this:
ATK, MATK +10%.

[If refined +7 or higher]
For every base 20 AGI, [Triangle Shot] Damage + 5%.
For every base 20 INT, bypass the magic defense of enemies by 2%.
For every base 20 DEX, ranged attacks +1%.
For every base 20 STR, Flee +3 and aspd +1%.

[If refined +9 or higher]
For every base 20 AGI, [Triangle Shot] Damage +10% instead of +5%, and if 120 base, reduce SP cost by 25.
For every base 20 INT, bypass the magic defense of enemies by 4% instead of 2%, and if 120 base, MATK +50.
For every base 20 DEX, ranged attacks +2% instead of 1%, and if 120 base, additional 10% ranged damage.
For every base 20 STR, Flee +5 and aspd +2%, and if 120 base, ATK +65.

 

i actually really like how this looks at +7 the buffs are good enough and they area really nice at +9 the wording is a little confusing but it can be changed to the typical "additional" to make more sense

 

my only real concern is DEX tho... i know ranged damage would help triangle shot but... it also would make ppl just want to use Arrow Storm even more and ignore Triangle completely  but maybe the Triangle Shot buff would make it more atractive also... but yea i like that


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#96 Kadelia

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:47 AM

so basically a sc needs a billion zeny to get the same aspd as a few million zeny blacksmith?

cruel truth for a poor player TwT


To hit the best metrics in thbe game you should have to spend or earn a bit more than eden gear or one quest. Seriously. The goal of the project is to make useless skills not useless, not obsolete gear that requires effort/mvping/etc.
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#97 spikexp

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:51 AM

@Jaye

I wasn't really pointing at how the hat should give ASPD bonus, just confused as to why the devs said SC can reach 193 'easier' than other jobs, and you showed something that might look 'easy' for most players.

After playing a few different classes (not all, of course) with auto-attack builds using a quite same gear setup, I found it's one of the hardest (not the hardest one of course!) to get desirable ASPD.

But yeah, most of SC players are centered around Reproduce and Intimidate/Preserve in general so I'd rather see a hat that boosts anything but those two (or at least make Reproduce/Intimidate as a support skill to that other build), so I won't force an ASPD bonus on the hat.
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#98 Riakuta

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:01 AM

@Jaye

I wasn't really pointing at how the hat should give ASPD bonus, just confused as to why the devs said SC can reach 193 'easier' than other jobs, and you showed something that might look 'easy' for most players.

After playing a few different classes (not all, of course) with auto-attack builds using a quite same gear setup, I found it's one of the hardest (not the hardest one of course!) to get desirable ASPD.

But yeah, most of SC players are centered around Reproduce and Intimidate/Preserve in general so I'd rather see a hat that boosts anything but those two (or at least make Reproduce/Intimidate as a support skill to that other build), so I won't force an ASPD bonus on the hat.

 

 

They are probably referring to the Bloody Lust skill which does increase your Attack Speed by 30% at the cost of your SP. If you account for this skill it is actually easier to reach max ASPD on a Shadow Chaser than most other classes.


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#99 Kadelia

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:18 AM

Wanderer has the easiest time reaching 193 with swing dance :3
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#100 Ramen

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:38 AM

They are probably referring to the Bloody Lust skill which does increase your Attack Speed by 30% at the cost of your SP. If you account for this skill it is actually easier to reach max ASPD on a Shadow Chaser than most other classes.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Bloody Lust does not effect the SC that casts it outside of WoE.  Still, I would like to know what the developers were smoking when they say that SC can get 193 easier than most classes, cause that's a load of crap.  Unlike most every other class, SC do not have a skill that boosts AGI or ASPD, whether in general, or with specific weapons.  They have no "Quicken" skills.  Other than relying on spending crap tons of zeny for buffs that only last 5 minutes at a time, using cards or gear that boost aspd by 100% for short durations (which any other class can use I might add), or being in a party or having some kind of buff slave follow you around, Shadow Chaser cannot achieve max aspd with any kind of ease or regularity.  So what classes can?

 

Maestro/Wanderer - Berserk Guitar (I know wanderer can't use this, but they can and do regularly achieve 193) and other aspd increasing skills

RuneKnight - Frenzy, or just the right build with two hand quicken

Royal Guard - AGI build with Spear Quicken

Mechanic - Adrenaline Rush and berserks

Guillotine Cross - right build and EDP

Sura - Native agi buffs, Berserk, Gentle Touch Convert

Ranger - need I say more?

 

So yeah.  A lot of classes can get 193 with nothing more than some good gear and their natural buffs.  Shadow Chaser has to go to rather extraordinary measures to achieve a consistent 193 aspd, and have to give up a considerable amount in order to do so, so I don't buy what the developers are trying to sell.  


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