1165 replies to this topic

[Pred]

Why is this thread still going, other than to fuel people's need for drama.

 

We're not going to deally and fight against our friends.  You're not going to ally and work with your friends.  That much as been made abundantly clear, yet keeps coming up.  It serves ZERO purpose bringing it up other than stir the pot and start a flame war.  Unfortunately, this thread has too many people who are only interested in instigating a fight, and really don't give a about resolving any kind of issue.

 

Let's face it, no changes made to WoE will make new guilds want to WoE.  New guilds require a leader.  If someone wants to WoE, they're not going to go through the effort of starting up their own WoE guild.  That takes time, effort, and a ton of sacrifice.  Why would someone want to put themselves through that?  People would rather join an existing guild than start their own.  Neither disabling alliances, nor lowering the guild cap, nor disabling gods/mvps is going to change that.  This game is just too old for people to be willing to make that kind of sacrifice.

 

The problem is that you would have to a level of passion, conviction, dedication, and leadership (and a touch of insanity) to run a guild, and very few people have that.  Everyone that has that is either already running their guild, or used to run their own guild and got tired of it and (understandably) quit.

 

You want a solution to make new guilds start WoEing?  Make it so WoE isn't the only guild end-game anymore.

 

RO was fun when ET runs were guild events.  Nowadays, everything except WoE is soloable. Most WoE guilds got started as a non-WoE guild that had something to do together, nowadays anything interesting there is to do you can do on your own.  Guilds will start popping up again if they have a reason to outside of WoE.

 

For instance, we need harder, challenging, rewarding instances.  Imagine instances where you need 10-15 people to complete them, not because it's difficult, but because it's functionally impossible to complete with less.  I don't mean something like TT with party limits on a door.  Make it so the 10 people have to actively be doing something that individually is difficult.  Make it rewarding by having the loot that drops from the instance/MVP be temporary, but game changing.  Like a scroll that gives a GTB card like effect for 1 minute.  Or a piece of rental gear that has a Thanatos Card effect, but goes away after a month.  And then make it so the ONLY way to get that item is through this instance/MVP.

 

Make a guild fun to run outside of WoE, you'll find that new guilds will start showing up inside of WoE.  The way RO is now, there's almost zero reason to even be in a guild until that emp goes up.

Edited by Pred, 11 November 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[WarlockFier]

They sure seems extremely disorganized when they tried to take Gloria 3 from us and can't. And tried taking Gloria 1 from us and can't too.

 

It seems like they are underplaying our alliance's side ability to plan as well and just here to keep saying other guild alliances are weak and disorganized. Of course when we get outnumbered, any kind of plan gets thrown out of the window and it becomes a cluster mess of disorganization.

 

As for MVPs, you forgot only GTB and Maya purple are disabled in WOE TE. And I never disagreed with you about the Gods, its just there will be people arguing about why fight/ work for them if you can't use them. Thus I stood out of arguing against it and said the only solution is the geared people help the undergeared grow and branch out to smaller guilds.

[Tofu]

Let's face it, no changes made to WoE will make new guilds want to WoE.  New guilds require a leader.  If someone wants to WoE, they're not going to go through the effort of starting up their own WoE guild.  That takes time, effort, and a ton of sacrifice.  Why would someone want to put themselves through that?  People would rather join an existing guild than start their own.  Neither disabling alliances, nor lowering the guild cap, nor disabling gods/mvps is going to change that.  This game is just too old for people to be willing to make that kind of sacrifice.
 
The problem is that you would have to a level of passion, conviction, dedication, and leadership (and a touch of insanity) to run a guild, and very few people have that.  Everyone that has that is either already running their guild, or used to run their own guild and got tired of it and (understandably) quit.

I've toyed with the idea of starting my own guild. However, given the current situation, what would I even do?

1. Fight against full alliance A or full alliance B, as a single guild.
2. Join an already existing alliance.
3. Try to find one of the 2 or 3 other small solo guilds out there, and hope alliance A or B don't interrupt us.
4. Wait until the last 15 minutes to look for a castle, and hope alliance A or B don't show up.


I love having a reason to fight. Whether it's trying to defend a castle, or break a defense. However, one of the goals of alliance A is to first break every single castle as WoE starts, to prevent someone from having an "easy econ." If a single guild is putting up a good fight defending it, allies are called to make sure the castle breaks no matter what. So basically, there's no point in defending unless you've got a full alliance to back you up.

Because you can't defend unless you have a full alliance, that means the only ones defending are those with a full alliance. A single guild, cannot feasibly go against a full alliance by themselves. Therefore, a single guild cannot attack a defense.

Because of these two things, this basically means single guilds have almost NO place in WoE right now, except to fight other random single guilds that happen to be passing by.

[Pred]

That's exactly why I'm saying that the only way a new guild can form is if they have a reason to form outside of WoE.

 

WoE is war.  Nobody should get a participation trophy for showing up.  You have to earn your keep.  The fact that a new guild would have to START OUT in that environment is that's wrong with the game.

 

Because everything is soloable, WoE isn't just the end-game for a guild anymore.  It's the ONLY game for a guild.  THAT is the problem.

[KiyokoHasami]

Even if we we're able to magically pull people out of our a** and be able to GVG the other alliance that STILL won't solve the problem about smaller guilds. So you people that keep saying to ALLY UP ARE NOT OFFERING ANY SOLUTION.

[Sirolrex]

That's exactly why I'm saying that the only way a new guild can form is if they have a reason to form outside of WoE.

 

WoE is war.  Nobody should get a participation trophy for showing up.  You have to earn your keep.  The fact that a new guild would have to START OUT in that environment is that's wrong with the game.

 

Because everything is soloable, WoE isn't just the end-game for a guild anymore.  It's the ONLY game for a guild.  THAT is the problem.

 

Considering nothing of actual importance actually comes from castles anymore, it would seem that having really fun fights might be the whole goal behind siege for people.  Running over the rest of the server with massive numbers doesn't do anything except make less people participate. 

[Tofu]

That's exactly why I'm saying that the only way a new guild can form is if they have a reason to form outside of WoE.
 
WoE is war.  Nobody should get a participation trophy for showing up.  You have to earn your keep.  The fact that a new guild would have to START OUT in that environment is that's wrong with the game.
 
Because everything is soloable, WoE isn't just the end-game for a guild anymore.  It's the ONLY game for a guild.  THAT is the problem.

That still doesn't solve anything in WoE.

Let's even assume a new super-instance comes out, that requires 50 people to complete. Those 50 people got together, to complete the instance, not to WoE. But now, they want to WoE! They still can't, because they need at least 2 other 50+ guilds that just formed to ally together. If you happen to be the odd man guild out when it's time to pick who's gonna be in the alliance, you've got little choice but to just sit and wait for another 2 guilds to form.


WoE isn't a war. It's a game. If it's not fun, people will leave.

Considering nothing of actual importance actually comes from castles anymore, it would seem that having really fun fights might be the whole goal behind siege for people.  Running over the rest of the server with massive numbers doesn't do anything except make less people participate. 

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

 

 

This. WoE has become a numbers game. And contrary to belief, WoE is meant for any individual playing the game whom wishes to participate. It isn't and shouldn't be geared only towards those whose numbers can annihilate any threat. Alliances, as they stand now, dominate WoE and intimidate smaller guilds out of even participating because it wouldn't even be a fraction of a fair fight. 

 

Point blank: WoE being end-game content isn't the issue. WoE being end-game content ZERGED by massive alliances is the issue. 

[WarlockFier]

The derail starts when people preach about how organized one alliance is as if the other isn't.

 

There are situation that proven otherwise. I'm only bringing it up in defense of our alliance can be very well organized too not to be overshadowed by all these boasts and praises to the mega alliance when they are a cluster mess at many times.

[Trance3D2Y]

Disable Gods/MVP but introduce WoE-only-godlike-gears available only from Cash shop. Server happy, newbies happy.

[Sirolrex]

Disable Gods/MVP but introduce WoE-only-godlike-gears available only from Cash shop. Server happy, newbies happy.

 

The problem isn't MVP's or Gods, The problem is an imbalance of numbers in one alliance.  There are not enough guilds left that even if they all allied would equal the numbers from the one alliance.

 

 

On the topic of MVPs and Gods,  Anyone stop to wonder if those would be as powerful as they currently are if KVM's were properly capped at +10 like they should have been?  

[miliardo]

@ Mods
You delete my post but not the posts dogging Animosity? Bias right?

Yup when it's vs anyone else but animosity auto delete

[Viri]

Just report the posts if you think they're offensive. They won't remove an unreported post most likely.

[Xellie]

Or maybe the "posters here from Animosity who feel they are being biased against" just need to learn how to express themselves better, plenty of people from Ani have not had their posts touched!

Edited by Xellie, 12 November 2014 - 09:17 PM.

[Magmag]

Maybe Xellie should stay on Classic cause that's all she knows~

[Viri]

Or maybe "Animosity" just need to learn how to express themselves better

 

I feel like the people antagonizing them are just making the issue worse. There's nothing really the GMs can do if that very large group wants to work together against all the people trying to spite them here. If I was in their shoes I would just continue recruiting and working as a huge group JUST because it pisses everyone off and they keep trying to be spiteful because of it.

[KiyokoHasami]

Yup when it's vs anyone else but animosity auto delete

 

Pretty sure I'm not in Animosity and I've had posts deleted and edited.

[Inubashiri]

@ Mods

You delete my post but not the posts dogging Animosity? Bias right?

 

If you read the other pages I've warned many times off topic posts will be deleted, but since people seem to have forgotten I will remind it here.  And I've been removing my own close friends posts, but bias right?  I don't even WoE or belong to a guild period, but bias right?  There is no replacement for facts.  Its why I'm not commenting on the direction of renewal WoE, only encouraging debate for both sides.

 

 

Yup when it's vs anyone else but animosity auto delete

 

I defended your right to post your opinion a few times until you got ugly with it and got banned a few days as a result, I still would but your posts are doing nothing but using personal attacks.  Look back at yourself before you blame others.

Edited by Inubashiri, 11 November 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[WarlockFier]

A lot of our posts got deleted too. :U So I don't know what's the bias.

[miliardo]

I feel like the people antagonizing them are just making the issue worse. There's nothing really the GMs can do if that very large group wants to work together against all the people trying to spite them here. If I was in their shoes I would just continue recruiting and working as a huge group JUST because it pisses everyone off and they keep trying to be spiteful because of it.

Haha that is what they doing and look how many more pages come on this thread

[Tofu]

I feel like the people antagonizing them are just making the issue worse. There's nothing really the GMs can do if that very large group wants to work together against all the people trying to spite them here. If I was in their shoes I would just continue recruiting and working as a huge group JUST because it pisses everyone off and they keep trying to be spiteful because of it.

People are free do this. There are no rules against it.

However, it is the duty of those who manage the game to intervene, if they believe someone's actions are detrimental to the health of the server, even if those actions were "within the bounds" of what is legally allowed.

The CMs/GMs are the ones that need to be convinced that change is needed, not players. The players on both sides of this issue are pretty clearly dead set on their views.

[Magmag]

Whatever. 

 

Edited by Magmag, 11 November 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[Xellie]

Maybe Xellie should stay on Classic cause that's all she knows~

 

This topic is super interesting to me since I've been moving back to renewal. I'm jumping around guilds to scope out the situation before committing, but I'm pretty biased since Anim acquired practically every god item created on Chaos during Ymir and it's the reason I left in the first place.

 

So the tooting of their own horn about how hard they worked comes across as offensive to me. idk. All I see is a giant superiority complex and no attempt to understand the other side.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I don't want to end up playing on a server that's nosediving faster than Classic

[Viri]

People are free do this. There are no rules against it.

However, it is the duty of those who manage the game to intervene, if they believe someone's actions are detrimental to the health of the server, even if those actions were "within the bounds" of what is legally allowed.

The CMs/GMs are the ones that need to be convinced that change is needed, not players. The players on both sides of this issue are pretty clearly dead set on their views.

 

I just think the idea of manipulating the game to make it harder for the winning side to win is just going to make them try and win harder and it'll keep their momentum going for recruiting. The only way to fix WoE is to have people in that alliance leave of their own accord and that can be done by making it more lucrative or beneficial to not be in such a big group.

[Magmag]

This topic is super interesting to me since I've been moving back to renewal. I'm jumping around guilds to scope out the situation before committing, but I'm pretty biased since Anim acquired practically every god item created on Chaos during Ymir and it's the reason I left in the first place.

 

So the tooting of their own horn about how hard they worked comes across as offensive to me. idk. All I see is a giant superiority complex and no attempt to understand the other side.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I don't want to end up playing on a server that's nosediving faster than Classic

 

I'm not quite sure I agree with our supposed superiority complex. I mean, maybe I'm bias, I know the people.

But I do know there is a certain je ne sais quois needed to try and change the dynamics of a whole game.

Edited by Magmag, 11 November 2014 - 03:27 PM.

[Xellie]

Make a guild. Solves problem. More competition.

 

I've considered it, but giving what I'm going up against, I'm not sure it will be worth the effort?