1165 replies to this topic

[Magmag]

Do it. You been leading since Windfall.

[Xellie]

Do it. You been leading since Windfall.

 

bro

 

Valhalla is older than windfall.

 

But let's assume I was going to bite, inspire me. What is the good side of this? What awaits me and how can I close the 8 year gap between myself and anim, knowing all the gear I could have inherited ended up in anim?

[Magmag]

My bad! Wild blade days!

As much as others would have to believe, WoE is pretty nice when the other guilds don't butterfly wing away from you. I don't have gods and I still far well. And they kill us when they actually try. Gods and all. Renewal has new dynamics. So until you learn those I don't know how well you'd fair but once you know what skills can do and what their opposition is you can go against whatever

Why not woe with us for a week? See how we do things. Get the full experience.

Plus I doubt money is an issue for you and you can buy all the gear you could possibly need.

Damn a phone auto correct

Edited by Magmag, 11 November 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[Xellie]

My bad! Wild blade days!

As much as others would have to believe, WoE is pretty nice when the other guilds don't butterfly wing away from you. I don't have gods and I still far well. And they kill us when they actually try. Gods and all. Renewal has new dynamics. So until you leader those I don't know how well you'd fair but once you know what skills can do and what their opposition is you can go against whatever.

 

So you know me well enough to know that I'm a pretty tenacious leader and don't give up easily. You want to see that from your enemies, is that what I'm reading?

 

Now I've only done a couple of WoEs on renewal so far, but I don't think that they don't try. There reaches a point though when it stops being fun and the amount of work required just doesn't seem worth it for the 6 hours a week.

 

I can't possibly think of anything that can inspire me to put in the amount of work to close that gap. I'm asking you to try and talk me into this, because if your words can inspire me, they might inspire someone else.

 

So here's a theoretical question for you. And I haven't asked anybody on renewal about this and it reflects the plans and feelings of nobody, but assume that the feelings that are put across on this thread are legitimate and assume the GMs do nothing.

 

If other guilds stop playing, what will Ani do? Will we see livestreams of them defending empty forts with 3 people again, a la Ymir and is that fun?

Is this the future people want?

 

Re: me woeing on ani side, I already sent a message to Dan about that on FB a couple of days ago. Please ask him to answer me!

Edited by Xellie, 11 November 2014 - 03:41 PM.

[Magmag]

Animosity would fight itself. So those who want woe will come to animosity to have organized woe fights. In turn others will step up to play I would suppose. In the best of cases.


In the worst there wouldn't be woe. Nothing stops animosity from WOEING.



There is nothing I could say to make you want to do something. It is shown in this thread itself.


If you want to be the defining factor. You can be it. You know what you need to do to win and are more than capable of doing it.


You just need to try.


It would be better to text him. He never checks Facebook. I can ask if you'd like.

Edited by Magmag, 11 November 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[DeltaRay]

1.Honestly the most realistic thing would be skill balancing, iRO needs to be able to buy customizations from kRO, in other words modify the skills to be more balanced.....iRO NEEDS to talk to kRO. if kRO still wants to keep the money comming then iRO needs customizations.We dont need to hear "we need to permission from kRO to do this" this is a terrible response.The changes in kRO are based on their players it isnt based on ours we arent getting anywhere if we keep waiting like this.

2.God items arent everything all I can say is that good players with god items will be godly, but bad players with gods is only gonna make them bad tbh...

in fact if gravity decided to do 1 week rentable versions of the gods in kp shop i wouldnt care because they will hardly have any effect on the woe scence the really good ppl will know how to get by, but the bad ppl wont.

 

for the record im a retired player but Im just curious to see what ppl had but it looks like nothing.

Edited by DeltaRay, 11 November 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[Xellie]

Animosity would fight itself. So those who want woe will come to animosity to have organized woe fights. In turn others will step up to play I would suppose. In the best of cases.


In the worst there wouldn't be woe. Nothing stops animosity from WOEING.



There is nothing I could say to make you want to do something. It is shown in this thread itself.


If you want to be the defining factor. You can be it. You know what you need to do to win and are more than capable of doing it.


You just need to try.


It would be better to text him. He never checks Facebook. I can ask if you'd like.

 

Yeah, ask him please.
 

You know me pretty well tho, but not well enough to know that my response is

 

"ugh. effort."

[Magmag]

Your legacy precedes you. Lol

[KiyokoHasami]

Animosity would fight itself. So those who want woe will come to animosity to have organized woe fights. In turn others will step up to play I would suppose. In the best of cases.

In the worst there wouldn't be woe. Nothing stops animosity from WOEING.

There is nothing I could say to make you want to do something. It is shown in this thread itself.

If you want to be the defining factor. You can be it. You know what you need to do to win and are more than capable of doing it.

You just need to try.

It would be better to text him. He never checks Facebook. I can ask if you'd like.

 

What there needs to be is an incentive and changes for people to WANT to come woe. If you can't even entice Xellie who is an established veteran then there is no way you're going to entice new people. There have been some pretty good suggestions so far besides the guild and alliance cap that's been mentioned.

 

I myself think that changing battle grounds to help supply woe could possibly help with that gap between poor and rich guilds. Make it so that the woe supplies are vended for 0 and can ONLY be used in a castle.

Edited by KiyokoHasami, 11 November 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Xellie]

Your legacy precedes you. Lol

 

heh. Cute.

[Easyy]

Whatever. 

Thats the attitude!

[Alaska]

Seems to me like the majority of posters are trying to get their points across as well as they possibly can.

[KiyokoHasami]

I was not taking sides at first, now I feel like animosity is the one playing it cool and this thread has become well ... Lol

 

To be honest it doesn't matter really which side you're on. The purpose of this thread is to have changes made whether it be to Guilds, Alliances, Castles, Supplies..ANYTHING. People from both sides have expressed concerns. Woe is dying and needs looked into.

Edited by KiyokoHasami, 11 November 2014 - 04:29 PM.

[AmonRA]

The reason many of people cant seem to graps is probably it doesnt make sense. I am not taking the Animosity alliance side. I am not taking either side. I am taking a stand on my point which does not favour both sides, the winning alliance and the losing alliance, but favour new players.

You put a guild cap and so what? People are not stupid. When they see an Animosity emblem, they will just b.wing even there are only 36 Animosity because they all know that if the 36 people having a hard time to fight/defens, they will bring other NAPs guilds to help.

So how would guild cap benefit new players and new guilds who just start off WoE with couple members and have bad gears?

Are you trying to save WoE in iRO in general or are you trying to change the game to your favour, so you could have fun?

Until you can answer this question, I will always be against the guild cap because I cant seem to grasp the idea of how it will solve the problems as a whole except favouring the losing alliance just because they dont like allying.

 

Umm yeah still NAPs on, but make more hard help you allys with only NAPs. (I hear recently about those Bwing trolls, make me fun momments xD)

 

About your questions:

1.- Hell yes, just tellme what happen in your mind when you see a guild with 10 players in a guild with 56 spaces and what happen when you see a guild with the same 10 players but with a limit of 36, new players have more confidence.

 

2.-Im not trying anything because i tired about this game (Actually you just need a credit card and outnumbers to win), just play sometimes because of my friends, but if i must be choice any those 2 options, i can tell you is for help iRO WoE. because my opinion or your opinion is important, why? because no matter is stupid or idiot your/my opinion maybe someone read it and get a better idea.

 

I love where this thread is going No where!

I want people to step up to the challenge

Did I get that wrong? All idea benifit small guilds only!

You know it's funny someone told me this yest and kind of true

Everyone wants to make a certain alliance do what they want, but they don't want to listen or do what they want either.

It is that idea is why this thread is going no where!

 

1.- I love too.

2.- Everyone, not just you.

3.- Of course only benefits small guilds, but at same time benefits big guilds too, because if small guilds are happy and begin to play WoE, made in a future a competition for the big guilds right? or you tell me if animosity leave CS and the barricade guild (AKA Sinergia) they cant fight? is wrong right? so what is the problem?

4.- That right, is funny, both sides doing the same, so yes that why this thread is not going anywhere

 

Before you go about the lag, lag affers both sides. If Animosity enjoys the lag but you dont, you can b.wing and let WoE die because apparenrly Animosity wont break down. For me personally, I enjoy the lags if I can see 100+ players on my screen. It makes me feel excited and makes me remember old days RO.

 

No, in pre-renewal have more fun without 100+ people, just 4 guilds with 20 or less in a casttle fighting between them and strategy plays, now if i remember, in pre-renewal dont have that damm lag, idk why now we have those lag spikes.


Anyway, i dont know why people still aks for a no-Godgears in WoE, outside megs i dont see the problem with others godlikes.

 

I see some hypocrites players say "Stop QQ and deal with us", but they before play on Medium/small guilds and complaining every day about this, and now contradict... just saying this because is annoying.

Now, so much trash talk about allys, but dont forget about the damm casttle drops, my idea is the same in the past, give you food materials inside treasure boxs, change Boots [1] for 30 Blood of wolfs., of course made a negative or a change in this drop chance when economy is high, like if you have 50 or higher economy you get 5 Warg Blood -_-tail instead of 30 Blood of wolfs and if you get max economy, you get a +10 INT Box food instead 5 Warg Blood -_-tail (INT Foods)

 

Anyway, good luck folks time to rank again in LoL Q____Q

[Tofu]

I've considered it, but giving what I'm going up against, I'm not sure it will be worth the effort?
 

 

 

One of the things which we are lacking on Renewal are experienced leaders. This is, in part, why there aren't too many guild vying to try and help consume those floating members who wish to WoE. Leading a guild takes time, dedication and yeah...experience helps. Someone like you offering that time and experience might help level the playing field, simply because it is a role which desperately needs to be filled. 

 

Cutting numbers in the larger guilds is only one part of the equation. Finding a viable guild for serious players or those who are interested in participating in WoE is another. 

[Viri]

Something needs to be done to make leading AND joining a smaller guild appealing.

[Kadelia]

This game is old, and the people who lead guilds are old players. For the health of the game, new people need to be able to step up. But they can't when their formative experience is being curb stomped out of the gate and being made to think they fail.

 

What Viri said sounds nice, but implausible. I'd love to hear some feasible ideas on what would make being a small/inepxerienced start-up worthwhile, like the dream of being big doesn't get squashed right out of the box.

Edited by Jaye, 11 November 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[miliardo]

One of the things which we are lacking on Renewal are experienced leaders. This is, in part, why there aren't too many guild vying to try and help consume those floating members who wish to WoE. Leading a guild takes time, dedication and yeah...experience helps. Someone like you offering that time and experience might help level the playing field, simply because it is a role which desperately needs to be filled. 

 

Cutting numbers in the larger guilds is only one part of the equation. Finding a viable guild for serious players or those who are interested in participating in WoE is another. 

 

 

i think a large number of people who used to lead woe guilds have stopped playing for the most part. What is left were a few remaining leaders who did not want to keep it up solo. So people joined other guilds to lesson workload. I come from valk server so dont know much of leaders from other servers besides most well known ones. Valk server had the most leaders of any server at the time of merge, but the merge put a lot of doubts about future of woe. Box items most guilds selling items because they were not going to be able to lend anymore. After all was said and done, most people left due to all the changes and uncertainty of their items(not to say a lot did not quit well cause they grew up). I want to say that woe was balanced, and fun in the begging with lots of action and guilds.

 

So, what we need to do its like what LYC did get a few of those previous woe leaders together and make a new guild. Look where that went to the rise of a top guild.

[Tofu]

Something needs to be done to make leading AND joining a smaller guild appealing.

It's too bad so many people are more interested in "winning" instead of "playing well." I left Animosity because I got tired of "winning" while doing absolutely nothing. I could (and have) literally just sit on my ass in a castle all WoE and not move, and "win."

And even if you do "win", you still get nothing out of it. 150% of the loot from any castles held go towards keeping the guild afloat. None of the individual members get anything out of it, other than a handful of supplies and a WoE experience.

[holatuwol]

So far, we've gotten a decent number of (repeated) suggestions across 44 pages. So, let's see what happens if we combine three of the suggestions: decreasing guild sizes, decreasing alliance sizes, and creating incentive to participate separately in a small group rather than as a NAP. We ignore "free" supplies, since it has a 0.1% chance of being implemented because it puts a dent in Gravity's current WoE-related revenue stream.

To achieve the three suggestions simultaneously, let's examine a totally arbitrary scenario that combines them all. We do this by first assuming that people playing Ragnarok Online really love cute hats. And I mean, really love them in scary, irrational ways.

To cater to that while implementing all the other suggestions, the GMs decide to disable alliances and implement a cute costume event hat that can only be collected from treasure chests of some specific castle during some month. WoE will only be available to guilds without guild extension (max size of 16) and Urgent Call is updated to have requirements so that WoE still has a vaguely stealth element to it.

Naturally, previous friendships dissolve at the mere thought of possessing an exclusive, cute hat in Ragnarok Online. People who are married to each other will now feel no remorse at front sliding a mado mechanic into their loved one. Former alliances are no more, because there is no "us" in Cute Costume Hat. It will be exciting and wonderful and you will have a cuter sprite at the end of it, if you win.

What will this change in WoE dynamics do for new guilds who are considering WoE but aren't because of the overwhelming material and numerical advantage of established guilds? What will happen to them when they try?

It might have been interesting a year or two ago, but with enrichly hammered glorious weapons, enrichly hammered WoE sets and cat ear berets, carefree black rosaries, and shadow costumes in play (essentially like a billion zeny in defense gear), new guilds would get one-shot by everything dished out by the current player base and hardly make a dent in anyone, even in a 16v16 situation.

Sure newcomers might not be as overwhelmed because they wouldn't be suffering a numerical disadvantage and therefore have some foolish hope that they'd succeed. But, getting crushed by a one-ton anvil and getting crushed by a five-ton anvil isn't really all that different.

So now that we've looked at the hypothetical scenario, let's be honest. Very few of the suggestions in this thread actually handles anything vaguely resembling a newcomer guild problem. All the players who think about WoE, their desire to participate is shaped by how surmountable they perceive the barrier to entry is, and it's mostly gear. Otherwise, they'd already have joined the existing two party system that supplies WoE for them.

So what's the problem that the suggestions so far would address?

People in medium-sized alliance are tired of being treated as "entertainment" by the larger-sized alliance. I mean, its members are playing the game for their own fun, not to be other people's fun. In reply to that, the larger-sized alliance members are saying, "Why do things need to change? You're entertained by it too ... sometimes!"

Of course, if you're in the medium-sized alliance, you're wondering what narcotics the larger-sized alliance members are using, because they clearly are out of touch with how you perceive the game right now. If you're in the larger-sized alliance, you're wondering how many needles the medium-sized alliance members have stuck in their eyes, because they clearly have no idea how you perceive the game can soon be in the future.

So like everyone is saying, each side is just trying to create a stable state that favors whichever way they envision is an ideal state for the game, which through no coincidence is the way they are currently playing the game. But what very few people are saying is that while the suggestions in the aggregate work to favor the existing medium-sized guilds, smaller guilds would still be steamrolled for a long time, so we're still going to be fighting the same people just in a slightly different unit size.

With that being said, when your WoE population is at like 300 and there are always 10+ castles in play, favoring medium-sized alliances with action spread across multiple castles is likely to be better for server health than favoring larger-sized alliances where all action is concentrated in one castle, even if small guilds still get kicked to the curb. So while the suggestions so far wouldn't change who participates, they would make it more sustainable for many of the people who currently participate, and so it's a step in the right direction.

[Demeris]

To fix woe, the game just need to have more players.

End of Discussion.

More players are going to quit and the same problems are going to happen all over again.

[DeathDealer]

Animosity would fight itself. So those who want woe will come to animosity to have organized woe fights. In turn others will step up to play I would suppose. In the best of cases.


In the worst there wouldn't be woe. Nothing stops animosity from WOEING.



There is nothing I could say to make you want to do something. It is shown in this thread itself.


If you want to be the defining factor. You can be it. You know what you need to do to win and are more than capable of doing it.


You just need to try.


It would be better to text him. He never checks Facebook. I can ask if you'd like.

I was actually part of the Animosity alliance during last 6 months of Ymir. They did NOT fight themselves and pretty much everyone but a few core members left Ymir for Valk/Loki. We literally had no one to fight except like 2-6 people from A2S or Dead server (idk) that would occasionally show up and a few 1 member guilds breaking empty castles. Entire WoEs of doing nothing but sitting in empty castles with massive econ going uncontested because everyone was sick of the status quo and left the server while we farmed it ez mode. If WoE is not fun even Animosity has all but quit before except for the few placeholder members who farm. Thats what were talking about right, trying to make WoE fun for EVERYONE? In case you have not noticed, a lot of people here are not having fun. In all honesty I think it would go a long way in helping the health of the server if Animosity were able to stand on their own just like many feel that a competent mega alliance with PDF coordination would help the server. Problem is mega alliance vs. mega alliance is not that fun for most of us due to the lag. Since neither is going to happen I think GM intervention of alliance/guild cap will help the health of the server and possibly tone down the lag some. It can be done realistically and doing nothing will not end well for any of us.

Edited by DeathDealer, 12 November 2014 - 02:36 AM.

[meli]

I find it really amusing when I read X guild/alliance would fight itself. It's undeniable how Ymir ended.

Edited by meli, 12 November 2014 - 02:58 AM.

[lylylight]

Sincere REQUEST ..... PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE AND KINDLY EXPRESS UR VIEWS

 

Hello People Good Day,

If we look at the current situation of woe with unbiased eyes, We are facing 3 main issues imo ….

1. Decreasing WOE  population
2. WoEs becoming uninterested / unfair.
3.  Main problem is people feels unimportant during woe hours ( either losing smaller opposition or GvGing boerd bigger alliance. )
4. Thing is we need to make people FEEL IMPORTANT during those 2 hours and lets make them feel they are doing some kinda GOOD WORK and they are enjoying it.

I have 3-4 MODELS, as sugesstions to solve these problems

 

1.

Rather than limiting size of guild and alliances we can limit the size of castle, that will make fixed number of people can enter woe castle, equal from both parties aka (attacking 40 vs defending 40).  So like if 40/40 ( 40 attackers / 40 defenders) enters castle then that  castles woe starts.  Here problem will be selecting who can go in. Only guild leaders can register for particular castle. Or for fair chances we can set  following - guild or party doing fastest instace ( smaller ones like Faceworm) can register 1st according to their timer. For multiple parties can we can keep options like parties finishing in 1st 10 timers of same guild or things like that. Once a guild owns that castle other guilds will try to take over it during next part.

 

2.

We can introduce timed entry instance to access to WoE maps. Like, if we say woe is 2 hours, it should begin with instance costing around 30 mins or so.  So parties doing fastest instance can access woe map earlier than other ( this will promote lots of team play /party work in the guild on the both sides aka Bigger / smaller alliance).  If GMs/ WP is not having time to make these instance - we can take 2 instances ( ET or Malangdo hard mode) as pre -req to entry WOE map every siege woe1/2 we do ( this will promote team play and important will for sure increase woe population as guild will need more members, better organization and woe dead / pvm portion of server will also join cz of ZENY they can make and also have FUN alongside.

 

3.

We can turn whole Castle Realm map into PVP and when u enter woe realm ur party is spawned at random position.  So u have to reach guild castle  and secure it on ur own or allying and teaming up with random people u can find. This helps in dispersing ppl with Big allaince and small guild ppl can have opportunity for the FAIR game play and tactics. Turing Realm map into PvP will also prevent zerg rushes from particular guild and zerg defenses from particular guild cz it wnt be easy to team and group in a map, where ur spawning randomly. Basically when things dnt work …. Throw in RANDOM summation in it.

 

4.

Finally, We can turn Guardian Stones / Barricades/ Emperium into MVP actually ( i mean turn emperium into Emprium MVP who will attack only attacking guild and he will not attack defending guild). So defending party can heal and take care of that MVP. MVP will roam freely in the particular room like emp room or stone room. This will get rid of stupid precast set up and tactics and also it will give attacking  Guilds more fair chance of since attacking  stone who is MVP now needs to be taken down and he is not into fixed setup …. Also same time defending party can still protect it. This throw up mix of things for both parties and they will have more fair chances of breaking castles and defending it. This will also promote peoples gameplay and positioning skills, gear switching skills … than age old precast setups with fixed mobility and fixed tactics.

 

 

KINDALY ..... let me know your FEEDBACKS ..... and do i even sound any goood about this thing.

Edited by lylylight, 12 November 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[miliardo]

Sincere REQUEST ..... PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE AND KINDLY EXPRESS UR VIEWS

Hello People Good Day,
If we look at the current situation of woe with unbiased eyes, We are facing 3 main issues imo ….

• Decreasing WOE population
• WoEs becoming uninterested / unfair.
• Main problem is people feels unimportant during woe hours ( either losing smaller opposition or GvGing boerd bigger alliance. )
• Thing is we need to make people FEEL IMPORTANT during those 2 hours and lets make them feel they are doing some kinda GOOD WORK and they are enjoying it.

I have 3-4 MODELS, as sugesstions to solve these problems

1.
Rather than limiting size of guild and alliances we can limit the size of castle, that will make fixed number of people can enter woe castle, equal from both parties aka (attacking 40 vs defending 40). So like if 40/40 ( 40 attackers / 40 defenders) enters castle then that castles woe starts. Here problem will be selecting who can go in. Only guild leaders can register for particular castle. Or for fair chances we can set following - guild or party doing fastest instace ( smaller ones like Faceworm) can register 1st according to their timer. For multiple parties can we can keep options like parties finishing in 1st 10 timers of same guild or things like that. Once a guild owns that castle other guilds will try to take over it during next part.

2.
We can introduce timed entry instance to access to WoE maps. Like, if we say woe is 2 hours, it should begin with instance costing around 30 mins or so. So parties doing fastest instance can access woe map earlier than other ( this will promote lots of team play /party work in the guild on the both sides aka Bigger / smaller alliance). If GMs/ WP is not having time to make these instance - we can take 2 instances ( ET or Malangdo hard mode) as pre -req to entry WOE map every siege woe1/2 we do ( this will promote team play and important will for sure increase woe population as guild will need more members, better organization and woe dead / pvm portion of server will also join cz of ZENY they can make and also have FUN alongside.

3.
We can turn whole Castle Realm map into PVP and when u enter woe realm ur party is spawned at random position. So u have to reach guild castle and secure it on ur own or allying and teaming up with random people u can find. This helps in dispersing ppl with Big allaince and small guild ppl can have opportunity for the FAIR game play and tactics. Turing Realm map into PvP will also prevent zerg rushes from particular guild and zerg defenses from particular guild cz it wnt be easy to team and group in a map, where ur spawning randomly. Basically when things dnt work …. Throw in RANDOM summation in it.

4.
Finally, We can turn Guardian Stones / Barricades/ Emperium into MVP actually. So defending party can heal and take care of that MVP. MVP will roam freely in the particular room like emp room or stone room. This will get rid of stupid precast set up and tactics and also it will give attacking Guilds more fair chance of since attacking stone who is MVP now needs to be taken down and he is not into fixed setup …. Also same time defending party can still protect it. This throw up mix of things for both parties and they will have more fair chances of breaking castles and defending it. This will also promote peoples gameplay and positioning skills, gear switching skills … than age old precast setups with fixed mobility and fixed tactics.


KINDALY ..... let me know your FEEDBACKS ..... and do i even sound any goood about this thing.

Negative on all that don't make any since mvps in stones? So your telling me that you can't defend a castle anymore. Making attacking easier will destroy the game and would come down to even more alliances. People trying to defend would need more people to fight MVP/ protect precast in front.

Sorry but only the alliance cap guild cap will work

I do like the idea of a whole realm of pvp lol I can see no one wanting to go in castle though.

Edited by miliardo, 12 November 2014 - 06:31 AM.