317 replies to this topic

[CaNehDa]

does that mean every other class with magic attacks need to be nerfed too? idk how your logic works

what other class has a magic attack? ._.

[Kaizy]

what other class has a magic attack? ._.

All of them.

[CaNehDa]

All of them.

example of one magic attack that should be considered solly magic?

I don't consider stuns a "magic" attack

[Irtofu]

any champ that loses to a cleric as is now deserves to be shot imo

1v1 raiders vs champs is more or less balanced until you throw in buffs once buffs come into play champs start off with a heavy advantage

Orly? let me see you win a decent battle cleric with no buffs and same refine gear as you lmao... with that first stun + 12 second mute lmao

[Irtofu]

example of one magic attack that should be considered solly magic?

I don't consider stuns a "magic" attack

Champ- space attack, soul wreck, battle cry
bourgs- zulie storm
raiders-venom knife, poison knife, flame hawk,plasma falcon, mystic knife
scout- has one I believe?
arti-hypno shot

need anymore?

[Kaizy]

^ What he said.

Except I'm not sure if scouts have one or not. I thought maybe phoenix arrow but it might not be. Anyway every class but scout has them. Knight has sword force and soul wreck btw.

[ChickenBucket]

gunbourgs have zulie storm but launcher has none

[BrownBear]

Orly? let me see you win a decent battle cleric with no buffs and same refine gear as you lmao... with that first stun + 12 second mute lmao

You are right to say that they are weaker when unbuffed. Mainly because they have the least amount of self buffs. But with the amount of PvP that occurs fully buffed, its hard to ignore how strong they are with full buffs.

Maybe they can change one of their defense or movement speed passives to a low to moderate percentage active buff? Like change quick step to a 20% dash with 7 minute duration. Leave charge the way it is, and have that as an extra burst of speed? Would make them weaker cleric buffed but a little stronger self buffed (if thats even necessary). Just throwing stuff out there.

Edited by BrownBear, 16 November 2010 - 03:10 AM.

[gEddeh]

Some people here clearly have no idea what an intelligent discussion is...

[Metaleux]

You are right to say that they are weaker when unbuffed. Mainly because they have the least amount of self buffs. But with the amount of PvP that occurs fully buffed, its hard to ignore how strong they are with full buffs.

Maybe they can change one of their defense or movement speed passives to a low to moderate percentage active buff? Like change quick step to a 20% dash with 7 minute duration. Leave charge the way it is, and have that as an extra burst of speed? Would make them weaker cleric buffed but a little stronger self buffed (if thats even necessary). Just throwing stuff out there.

I was thinking exactly the the same but was too lazy to explain it. They are the best when buffed but far from the best self buffed and this would be the kind of solution to look into IMO.

Oh yeah, that and weap req on skills for the ones who didnt see

[ChickenBucket]

[intelligent thought]looks like mike is making a champ or has one he is defending them wayyy too much [/intelligent thought]

[Phish]

Champ- space attack, soul wreck, battle cry
bourgs- zulie storm
raiders-venom knife, poison knife, flame hawk,plasma falcon, mystic knife
scout- has one I believe?
arti-hypno shot

need anymore?

Phoenix arrow for scouts is magic, also swords of divinity and sword force for mace knights. Everything mages have except fierce cudgleing and staff stun, everything that clerics have.


Giving champs another weak self buff wouldn't hurt anyone, but I think they should make the hp buff staminal assist more useful if anything.

Edited by Phish, 16 November 2010 - 05:25 PM.

[Irtofu]

[intelligent thought]looks like mike is making a champ or has one he is defending them wayyy too much [/intelligent thought]

I have become inactive and you probably know that I dont usually stick to one class, I have played almost ever class, except battle arti, and I am just pointing out what I see from a champs view

[CaNehDa]

Champ- space attack, soul wreck, battle cry
bourgs- zulie storm
raiders-venom knife, poison knife, flame hawk,plasma falcon, mystic knife
scout- has one I believe?
arti-hypno shot

need anymore?

the game may consider those attacks "magic" i don't.

[BrownBear]

the game may consider those attacks "magic" i don't.

They are just as magical as the mute skill. Lets not have double standards.

[Kaizy]

They are just as magical as the mute skill. Lets not be retarded.

[poopiehead]

I'm pretty sure the devs got the point that people think champs have too much def and mspeed from the previous 10 threads

just gotta wait til they do something about it, whenever that may be.

[AlisiaMT]

The Wise Choice Process:
1.How is the situation at the moment? All the characters are off in balance, especially champs.
2.How would I like the situation to be? Everyone has stats good for their job but still [marginally] balanced compared to other jobs
3.What choices can I make? Get rid of champs passives, nerf champs, up everyone else's mspeed, etc
4.What are the consequences of those choices? Pissed off champs for the most part.
5.Which will be chosen? It's up the the Mods
6.Evaluate. Thats what the forums are for to make sure there is balance in game.

Since this is supposed to be an intelligent thread about champs' abilities, has anybody considered taking an approach other than what can we take away from champs to make them equal? Instead I think we should organize each specific class into categories

ie. Champ Physical offense
knight physical defense
mage magical offense
cleric magical defense
raider mspeed/physical offense
scout aspeed/physical offense
dealer ?
bourg ?
(I'm a cleric through and through so these may be horribly innaccurate )

This would mean that a lvl 215 raider without any special equip should be faster than a champ of same lvl and regular equip. a champ would be stronger than a knight but a knight would have more def. Clerics should have the strongest buffs and mages the strongest "magical" (whatever your definition would be) skills. Instead of focusing on champs, focus on the builds of all the jobs and rank them in each category. AP #1 champ, #2 knight etc. Def knight, raider(should be clerics cuz we're hella weak x.x but it isnt so its okay..), champ. (once again cleric *points to self*)

Note: I am horrible at explaining so bear with me here. No insults please!

Edited by AlisiaMT, 17 November 2010 - 10:28 AM.

[BrownBear]

Am I the only one that feels like we have been doing that the whole time?

I'm pretty sure the devs got the point that people think champs have too much def and mspeed from the previous 10 threads

just gotta wait til they do something about it, whenever that may be.

We can't assume they get it till that day actually comes.

Edited by BrownBear, 17 November 2010 - 12:13 PM.

[xHydra]

1. Remove mspd passives or drasticly decrease them/add to hawker tree
2. Remove or greatly decrease amount of debuffs champs have on damaging aoes/lower % of debuffs
3. Change defense passives to accuracy passives, move defense training to knight tree
4. Increase staminal assist % and lower amount of SP needed.
5. Lower amount of SP needed for aspd passive to 5.


That should do it.

Edited by xHydra, 17 November 2010 - 03:56 PM.

[Gwyn]

IMO
take the ms passive
leave the burst ms skill (so that they can rush to their enemy)
and i believe they are the one class with all the passives available for them
*def passive
*hp passive
*hp regen passive
*ap passive
*crit passive
*accuracy passive
*ms passive
*aspd passive
god they even have
+mp +mp regen passive
(what a surprise they dont have evasion passive )
this job realy need rebalancing

[Phish]

If charge didn't remove your previous mspeed buff it might actually be worth using. 4 seconds of high speed to lose it just doesn't seem worth it even if they were made to be the slowest class. (I don't think removing all the mspeed passives is a good idea.)

[AlisiaMT]

If charge didn't remove your previous mspeed buff it might actually be worth using. 4 seconds of high speed to lose it just doesn't seem worth it even if they were made to be the slowest class. (I don't think removing all the mspeed passives is a good idea.)

As a muse you have the opportunity to learn the wallop charm (atk). Once you turn cleric and max wallop you can learn clobber, a more powerful atk buff. valkyrie, or the additional damage buff, you can learn after you start lvling up the clobber charm. Clobber is a stronger version of wallop, but valkyrie is an entirely different buff. If they are to change a mspd passive to a skill, I agree in the sense that it shouldn't get rid of a speed buff. Therefore, if this were to take place they should make the build similiar to a cleric. As a soldier they have a speed buff but once they turn champ they should have a new faster spd buff and a seperate increased speed buff. That way there will be two different buffs and the original buff wont disappear at the end of the short lived increased spd buff.

[Phish]

Thats a good idea, I think that could work well.

[trupein]

IMO with the exceptions of all the debuffing champs do they are pretty balanced.
I think other classes are off.
The Hawker class more m-spd than Champs
Clerics definately more m-spd and take away the atk spell reqs to learn the passive def tiers
Mage unsure as I don't currently have one
Arti not really meant for battle in my personal opinion but a little more ap and maybe a aoe of sort for lvling
Bourgs yet again unsure but seem ok as they have pretty good ap and ranged atks

So debuffing mixed with stun and mute is what makes it unbalanced IMO
but if they didn't debuff stun and mute wouldn't seem so bad i think

and yes i have a champ