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God Item Creation/WoE Rebalance


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#1 Campitor

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 02:24 PM

Recently there have been concerned raised regarding the density of God Items on the classic server and if things continue as they are the density issues will only get much worse and prevent new users from being able to participate in WoE.

 

What are the user's thoughts on this? Do you have any proposed solutions?

 

Please post below or join us Feb 24th in game on the classic server for a town hall meeting on this!

 

We have a few ideas that have been previous been floated around however we want to get the communities thoughts before we do our first proposal.

 

 

 

So far our idea has a two parter solution.

 

1. God Item Quest Change

Currently the God Item quest kill counts don't reset on failure. This allowed users who have failed creation to be very passive about the next attempt and does not encourage competition in any way.

 

The Change:

Going forward any new kill counts will be flagged for reset. This would stop rewarding on going failure. For a time there would be guild leaders hanging around who won't be reset until they successfully create. This would cause the creation to really be competitive.

 

2. Restructuring of WoE

The future domination of WoE by God Items is both a bad and good thing. Players should be able to reap rewards from their efforts. However they should not be able to use those rewards to completely lock out any contenders future participation in WoE.

 

The Change:

The Current WoE 1 and WoE 2 get merged into the same rules set.

WoE 1 then gets sub divided into a two part WoE that happen at different times.

 

1. Part 1 is the continued full power WoE: God Items and MVP cards fully allowed

2. Part 2 is a more protected WoE; God Items and MVP cards are disallowed/nerfed 

 

The realms that are assigned to Part 1 / Part 2 of WoE 1 would then start rotating on a quarterly basis. Treasure boxes would also be rebalanced. By making each WoE event smaller this would encourage competition. New guilds would also be able to participate as they would have the protected WoE to find in.

 

A secondary option would be to have Both the Protected and full power WoE run at the same time.

 

 


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#2 Divine

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:42 PM

The "Density" of God Items on the Classic server is located within a single guild.

 

If you've noticed, noone right now is mass producing God Items because the 100 Seal quest requirement is absurd given Classic's population. Why are you trying to reduce the number of future god items, when only one guild currently has the majority of god items? You're essentially gimping/making it more difficult for other guilds to create gods and compete in WoE. 

 

I like the idea of the Town Hall Meeting, but so many guilds have quit because nothing has been done to address the real problems. Can you do announcements in game, or have this idea more advertised so we get more guilds participating and not just the 3 or 4 guilds that are left on the server. It'll end up being a back and forth between two guilds and we want progression.

 

Solutions:

- Work harder on the Server transfers that were so hyped about before, I think alot of people are still interested in this.

- Keep up with the Turn-Ins. I dont know how Juperos TI is going, but my guildies have been doing Dragon parties every single day and have been helping many newbies lvl up. Spice it up and add an option to obtain Guild Supply Boxes instead of EXP so that it invokes more party play or players can sell GSB as a source of revenue (since the only way to get GSB is through Guild Dungeon / 1 MvP)

 

- In regards towards WoE -> Focus on what really matters: We dont want econ resets (screws over the work guilds have put in)

  • Look into the cheating : Nodelay, Portal Recalling, Botting
  • Fix loots : All the slotted armor/shoes/garments/shields are useless -> Put an exchange NPC to turn them into something useful (Elu, GSB)
  • Do constant checks for Duped MvP cards / +9 / +10 gears / Malangdo Enchanted Gears
  • Reduce # of castles (possibly) until Classic's population goes back up
  • Incentivize WoE : Someone suggested bragging rights for the top 3 guilds, give more reason for new guilds to participate
  • Guild Cap / Ally Reduction

Edited by Divine, 17 February 2015 - 05:00 PM.

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#3 Tribe

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:17 PM

You cant do anything on this server without making people mad... Get some great ideas together and then make a new server with a real road map and fixed rules.


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#4 Xellie

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:36 PM

Well I do keep saying I have 3 megs to make, I'm just waiting to complete another set so I can do 2+2 instead of 2+1 *le yawn* I'm also giving people a chance to realize what I'm about to do because I KNOW it's a harmful thing to do. When it happens, people are going to use it to argue for changes or balance or cry about god saturation in Valhalla, whatever you want to call it. It's BAD. I don't like it. I want my megs but lol.

 

It's closer than you think, but I doubt anyone plans on making 4 gods in the same timespan I do, I'm asking it to be harder for myself. I can be 2 ahead or 4 ahead or w/e.

 

Normally, guilds wouldn't share plans like that, but I think it's going to be very upsetting when people see *that guild* popping out multiple megs of all things. Maybe Megs should use all the seal power, or something like that.

 

God Items don't counter god items, mvp cards and miniboss cards counter god items. One belt user means nothing to another belt user. I don't think I can stress this enough.

 

Also we have less than you think right now.

 

5 megs/3 hammers/2 bris /2 sleips

 

BUT! That is about to change


Edited by Xellie, 17 February 2015 - 05:39 PM.

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#5 Quanta

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:48 PM

Xellie showed us on-stream how many god parts she has stockpiled just for giggles. It's kinda scary. And yet, nobody seems eager to stop that -_- from happening except her. That's kinda -_- up.


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#6 Phil

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:59 PM

All I know is that there is this new daily event in Classic that happens around 7 pm CST where a Asprika is being auto-generated everyday to almost no fail.

 

So 1 year = 365 asprikas yay


Edited by Phil, 17 February 2015 - 06:00 PM.

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#7 Xellie

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:59 PM

*snorts*


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#8 Rythen

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 06:01 PM

And when we finish our final five Asprika sets, we'll do the same thing with Megs.


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#9 Quanta

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 06:03 PM



And when we finish our final five Asprika sets, we'll do the same thing with Megs.

iIlRtOI1JnhfQ.gif


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#10 Xellie

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 06:30 PM

I'm ok with them keeping the creations as is I guess on two conditions:

 

- people are ok with the perceived status quo becoming real. (The difference between us having 5 megs and 8 megs is going to be really big, even though there are woes we don't use all our items currently....)

 

- that a serious discussion takes place on how this affects people coming to the server. Through my experience with livestream and recruiting players, the biggest question they all ask is "how many god items are there on this server?"

I can't stress this enough, it's the biggest question future competitive players ask me.

 

Valhalla is a VERY big guild by classic's standards. If you think of god items per capita rather than per player/per guild suddenly our numbers make a lot more sense. I recently received a talking to myself wherein I was told that what we did is a preservation of how hard we've worked. Taking that into account, I should have no qualms about continuing on the same route.

But we bring it up because we are concerned about the server's growth. On one hand, we could be responsible for ruining the server and making people not want to play, on the other hand, that's just us playing the game.

It's not fair that this kind of decision is pushed on to the players of the game. That's why people want to know what the GMs think and if they're ok with this current state of affairs which is pushing the very reason that people may chose to not play on the server.

 

In the interests of fairness, I am just going to leave you with the facts that I have stated here and let others say their piece/argue their case. Ultimately, I don't want to feel like the server's fate hinges on whether or not I continue to continue actually playing the game and achieving the goals set out before us. If it doesn't change, we will just continue with our double creations or space them out to do denials. If it changes, we will just continue to play at that slower pace, having to make more characters. Whatever change they make will affect VH as much as any other guild, so the relativity doesn't actually matter. The only thing that will change is the pace. If they hadn't changed it, we would have still been ahead (As we were before the changes), etc.

 

The same thing applies to economy. Perhaps there should be a bonus for having 100 econ (such as the ability to preserve the 100 econ, or trade it for another castle within the same realm, with a penalty). I'm not saying that because I have 100 econ, please feel free to nuke it if we still have it by the time the reset rolls around, even if others are allowed to keep theirs.

 

 I hope we can find a compromise that helps both sides and the growth of the server

 

- Xellie

 

 

 

 


Edited by Xellie, 17 February 2015 - 06:45 PM.

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#11 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 06:49 PM

Recently there have been concerned raised regarding the density of God Items on the classic server and if things continue as they are the density issues will only get much worse and prevent new users from being able to participate in WoE.

 

What are the user's thoughts on this? Do you have any proposed solutions?

 

Please post below or join us Feb 24th in game on the classic server for a town hall meeting on this!

 

We have a few ideas that have been previous been floated around however we want to get the communities thoughts before we do our first proposal.

 

It is too late to do anything, honestly.

 

The "saturation" is all within a single guild as Divine has mentioned. They *only* have 5 megs of there own, yet borrow and use an additional 5 from other guilds that have quit or players who have personal gods. That is 10 megs alone being used in a single guild, that is more then all of the other WoE 1 god items combined in the rest of the server. I am not putting down that guild, they worked very very hard<> to obtain a monopoly on god items. That should be rewarded.

 

Limiting the rest of the server to catch up is just as bad. 

 

Anyways, there isn't a simple solution. Best thing to do would be break all of the god items back down into parts, which has been done in the past, and put in a system where there can only be X amount of megs, X amount of hammers, X amount of sleps ect on the server at a single time.

 

There is no "right" solution. This is damage control 2 years too late. Regardless of what you chose people will quit, although you guys probably know that already. I am sorry about the situation, but it is very much self inflicted.

 

Wipe the server and start fresh. Final note, town meeting at what time? That doesn't sound too good since only limited amounts of people will be able to make it on a Tuesday. Most people are productive with their own lives and are in school or work. 


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#12 Tolrin

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 06:49 PM

I am completely against any increase in difficulty of making items.  If anything the creation process should be made more accessible.  The bottleneck on item creation should be in pvp, holding econ successfully, getting desirable forts, etc, not on a lack of motivation to do repetitive npc turn-ins to close seals.

 

If you wanted the total number of items to be smaller, then drop rates should have been decreased earlier.  It is a little late now to be playing with drop rates, since all it would mean is less new items, and taking people's current items away seems likely only to drive more players away.


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#13 Xellie

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:00 PM

It is too late to do anything, honestly.

 

They *only* have 5 megs of there own, yet borrow and use an additional 5 from other guilds that have quit or players who have personal gods. That is 10 megs alone being used in a single guild, that is more then all of the other WoE 1 god items combined in the rest of the server. I am not putting down that guild, they worked very very hard<> to obtain a monopoly on god items. That should be rewarded.

 

Although I want to hear what Valkyrie has to say in particular, I'm not going to sit here and let lies like that be told. Valhalla has no access to either Wrecking Crew's items - Those are in the hands of wc players who remain and actually do not woe with us on saturday and only half of sunday. And usually play wizard/scholar.

 

Regarding Yumi's meg, we don't use that either. Although people seem to believe that we had, I have not had access to their accounts until recently. It had been used against us more than by us.

I currently do not have access to that item. It is not kept on the account I have access to.

 

Please don't fearmonger and keep to facts. And regarding that one person I sold a creation to that is in guild? s/he plays a bomber and does not share the megingjard with Valhalla. Thus is it unused during WoE.

 

Have we had access to such in the past? For one or two exceptional WoEs we have pulled out the "lend us all of your items" card and been denied many times. Not every time, but often enough.
 

To reach a suitable solution, every side needs to be listened to, so I am asking you, politely, to not invent numbers and facts. I have laid down my guild's plans and goals in enough detail to be screwed over hard to show how genuine I am about this.


Edited by Oda, 17 February 2015 - 10:07 PM.

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#14 queenmastersmith

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:12 PM

How is it that everyone seems to be going on about the godly density in one guild when that guild still had to follow the new creation rules? It's not like they ever had or presently have a free ticket to gods, unless hard work exhibited by a very small number of people (fewer than I could count on my hand) counts as a free ticket. Every other guild on the server is bound by the same ruleset.

 

The fact that creations still occurred at a similar rate following the quest revamp is, of itself, a testimonial to the fact that it's still not that hard.

 

Now just imagine if everyone put in the time to roll seals and pawn off the stones or contribute them to their guild fund instead of just a couple of dedicated individuals.


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#15 etansit

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:34 PM

You know, there's a twitch stream that shows what we do quite often. 

I would look into that. When I said that last sentence, i was using massive sarcasm.


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#16 Shomaye

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:47 PM

It is too late to do anything, honestly.
 
The "saturation" is all ... That is 10 megs alone being used in a single guild, ...
 
Anyways, there isn't a simple solution. ...
 
There is no "right" solution. This is damage control 2 years too late. ...

 

Just felt like I had to pop in here and make a quick reply to this post.  You are a respected member of the community and I personally value your ability to bescumber suggestions on the boards and contribute to the overall discussion.  You, I think, were one of the only people to see this problem coming and if your advice had been taken in the first place we wouldn't even be in this mess, and I think for fairness' sake this needs to be pointed out.
 

Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:45 PM
One thing is for certain, we need to make it reduce the amount of characters to roll.


Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:28 AM
Also reduce number of characters required to roll seals to 50.


Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:59 PM
...please the majority of the server is to reduce roll to 50...
And BAM everybody is happy. Your welcome.


Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:40 PM
No new god item quest, reduce seal roll to 50 chars,

Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:55 PM
Just do this: No new god item quest, reduce seal roll to 50 chars,


Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:16 PM
Server wont be flooded, ..

 

I only had time to scan through one thread.  I'll admit hindsight is 20/20 but we can probably all feel better about taking your advice in the future now that we see you were right after all.  Do you think reducing the number of characters required to roll the seals would still be a viable option to prevent the creation of too many god items?  It couldn't possibly hurt, right?


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#17 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:18 PM

Te server was a different place back then. You can pull 1 liners out of the air, but your leaving out the context. We needed changes a long time ago to help keep guilds motivated to play. TE fact that nothing was done at all (on any fronts) has made it so the "big guilds" have left. The situation currently is drastically different and more dire then when I posted those surgestions.

Fact of the matter is the gods have been skewed for a long time and nobody else cares enough or has enough time to invest to this game besides one group of players. Thy have been rewarded for their hard work and have earned most of it. Not puttin them down at all, they have invested a great deal of time into talking to NPCs.

The current situation is... Change the God quest to limit future creations and one group will maintain the monopoly even more. Result people will quit. Dont do anything and pop will continue to drop, especially with econ wipe. There is nothing they can do besides damage control which will mean some players will quit over thier decisions.

It's 2 years too late. A monopoly has been made and with players quiting/selling items, it all ends up in one place. Similar thing happened on renewal with animos.
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#18 Xellie

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:38 PM

A blue ball and a red ball are placed on a flat surface, the blue ball is placed three feet behind the red one.

They are both traveling at 2mph.

 

Assuming no outside forces are at work, including surface friction or air resistance, how long until the blue ball catches up to the red one?

 

Bonus points: How long would it take for the blue ball to catch up or overtake the red ball if the velocity of both objects is  changed to 1mph?


Edited by Xellie, 17 February 2015 - 09:46 PM.

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#19 Cinquine

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:44 PM

A blue ball and a red ball are placed on a flat surface, the blue ball is placed three feet behind the red one.

They are both traveling at 2mph.

 

Assuming no outside forces are at work, including surface friction or air resistance, how long until the blue ball catches up to the red one?

 

Bonus points: How long would it take for the blue ball to catch up or overtake the red ball if the velocity was changed to 1mph?

 

the answer is eat cake and cry


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#20 queenmastersmith

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:00 PM

The answer never ofc. The other ball is red, and red things go three times faster.

 

Law of Chromatic Superiority aka. The Aznable Effect.


Edited by queenmastersmith, 17 February 2015 - 10:04 PM.

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#21 Hrishi

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:13 PM

Wipe and start over. This damage control should have been done at the server's inception. It's stupid that the bottleneck is the quest, and not the acquisition of pieces. Not to take away from the hard work of anybody who has made items, but honestly it's a little stupid when the creation of god items is predicated on who is willing to quest a lot. Any control you do now would not change anything in the slightest, in my opinion. God items per capital is way too high.

 

Pieces should not have dropped at such a ridiculous rate from forts. Gum should never have worked on pieces, nor should have drop events.


Edited by Hrishi, 17 February 2015 - 10:14 PM.

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#22 Themes

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 11:38 PM

There really isnt going to be a way to solve this that will make everyone (anyone?) happy.


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#23 AmericanPie

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 03:04 AM

create another classic server. LOL


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#24 Quanta

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 03:36 AM

create another classic server. LOL

Am I the only person who thinks creating another server is dumber than just scrapping/reducing the number of God items on this server? Not only is this saying "-_- your hard work on Gods," but it adds the additional layer of "-_- your hard work on all of your characters." If you're going to screw people, just screw them once.
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#25 HansLowell

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 03:53 AM

No matter what people say it doesn't fix the problem. Over time there will be alway more god item and mvp. How many time will you wipe a server when thing go saturated. This is not a fix, neither is making the god quest harder. God item are in the game to be made. And just with that fact no matter what happen they will stock up at a certain rate until it go saturated again. Im not interested at all in temporary solution. People can be smarter than that.


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