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[Classic] Future Uncertain


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#1 Xellie

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 09:31 AM

I didn't want to have to make a thread about this, but there's only so many time one can bump a thread trying to get an answer before losing patience.

 

The threads

 

Classic 2015 Q1 Roadmap, God item creation/WoE rebalance and WoE 2 castle changes

 

 

mention:

 

-Reducing castles

-Economy resets

-Investigating possible reduction of power of ultra-powerful mvp cards during WoE.

 

The Change:

The Current WoE 1 and WoE 2 get merged into the same rules set.

WoE 1 then gets sub divided into a two part WoE that happen at different times.

 

1. Part 1 is the continued full power WoE: God Items and MVP cards fully allowed

2. Part 2 is a more protected WoE; God Items and MVP cards are disallowed/nerfed

 

 

Target Date: 3/18

Process:

Since its kind of unfair to remove castles from only certain guilds all castles will undergo a one time ownership reset. This reset would also include a Econ/Defense Reset.

 

 

Now why am I bringing this up? We've passed the target date for these things. Not only has WoE devolved into an extremely poor state due to the issue being ignored, but the uncertainty I experience as a guildleader is like this

 

  • Should I even bother making these 5 god item sets I have into god items, if they're just going to get disabled after creation?
  • We've been done with our econ castle a long time, but there's no point starting a new one because reset may come soon maybe?
  • What's the point of defending when those who don't defend walk off with multiple castles of a higher econ value than mine anyway?
  • Same thing with MVP cards, I'm tied up in deals to buy/trade MVP cards, but do I really want to do it? Will they magically stop working when the next person complains?

Really need some answers, because right now, doing anything in WoE that involves "planning" is completely pointless.


Edited by Xellie, 02 April 2015 - 09:32 AM.

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#2 Misos

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 09:50 AM

A little info/confirmation helps. We can't wait another 6 months.


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#3 Tribe

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 10:14 AM

Doing anything outside of woe will soon be pointless!

What's next people will say that +7 and up gear should be disabled in woe cause its unfair to the people that don't play the game and only play woe?
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#4 Kuyami

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 10:25 AM

I'd like to hear about the changes too... It would be nice to know if something will change or not.


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#5 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 11:00 AM

I'm kind of hoping they do the "vanilla" WoE's. I think it should be an additional WoE and not a replacement, could really market it well to "other" ro players. 

 

But yes, answers would be nice.


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#6 Shomaye

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 11:52 AM

Q1 is over, Q2 is here.  Would be a great time to review what has been done and what still needs work.  The points in the OP have been discussed pretty well.  Hopefully gms have enough input now that they can make the changes or at least put together a final proposal.  We are all looking forward to the Q2 roadmap as well. 


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#7 Xellie

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 12:34 PM

I'm kind of hoping they do the "vanilla" WoE's. I think it should be an additional WoE and not a replacement, could really market it well to "other" ro players. 

 

But yes, answers would be nice.

 

Vanilla WoEs as in editted so they aren't classic? Wouldn't that not be vanilla? herpderp


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#8 Rang

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 12:46 PM

God Items and MVP cards are disallowed/nerfed

 

So then why should I bother playing this game? Why should I sink countless hours and KP into earning rare, powerful cards just to have them rendered useless in what is arguably considered this game's "end game" (ie. War of Emperium)?

 

What is the point? So that "joe-shmoe" that logs on 4 hours a week can have "equal footing" in WoE to players like me who, despite being a full time student and has a job, pours nearly 10x more hours into this game than they do?

 

If "equal footing" is your goal, then bring back USRC.

 

Event WoEs are fine; as in, TEMPORARILY restricting items for a WoE with LITTLE TO NO REWARDS at the end of it (read: Just for fun).


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#9 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:01 PM

Vanilla WoEs as in editted so they aren't classic? Wouldn't that not be vanilla? herpderp

 

Any of those changes in OP are edits so they aren't classic. In fact Classic isn't really "classic" at all with the amount of custom changes (most very good infact). I do not see the value of pulling the "its not classic" card at this point, since this server isn't really and never was really "classic". Econ resets, castles reduction, ect in the OP are all edits as well. 

 

If the goal is to get more people on the server, then we should offer something to invite players to come back or switch to Classic from other servers. Currently there are too many gods on the server for anybody to want to make the switch to come here and I am not singling you out because I have more personal WoE 1 gods then I can equip (nothing uses megs+ hammer at same time that's useful lol). This server is so flooded that there are personal woe 1 gods and more gods then WoE players. I have earned mine for sure and others have earned theirs. Good job and keep going, I know I will. But I want to play with people and against people, so I see no harm in an additional WoE with no gods/mvps. It has such a big opportunity to attract more players/guilds. I can put my gods/mvps down for an additional WoE if that will help generate population for the server.

 

It is important to note, that in my opinion, they should add an additional WoE and NOT disrupt the ones/format we currently have. I agree that gods/mvps should be used and goals for individuals/groups. Realistically, we need to offer some sort of excitement for players/entire guilds to come and want to play this server. Having a vanilla woe could be a nice welcoming thing and then once they get more established they could move up to real WoEs or do whatever they want.


Edited by Gn1ydnu, 02 April 2015 - 01:06 PM.

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#10 Xellie

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:13 PM

5 megs split over 50 players isn't that many .-.

 

You over exaggerate the number of gods on the server greatly.

 

I'm not against non-god/non-mvp content, but it shouldn't detract from the genuine WoE experience


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#11 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:17 PM

I agree and that is why I think an additional WoE would be good. Plus the current WoEs placement is horrible. Eats up the entire weekend and very limited time between them if you run into supply issues between WoEs or any number of other things. Less then 20 hours separates 2 WoE's a week kinda sucks (end of woe 1 to beginning of woe 2). 

 

For gods vs players, I was including all gods like asprikas/bryns. Honestly, that number has to be pretty close. 

 

The "vanilla" woe could just be a great marketing tool. Get people to join server. They invest time into it and might want to fully participate. Win/win, imho. Worst case scenario people join, stimulate the market by leveling/gearing, and only do that single WoE. The pop still goes up and many factors will push them into participating in all WoE's. I know I'd badger my GL if they only did the vanilla woe and didn't participate in the rest.  


Edited by Gn1ydnu, 02 April 2015 - 01:20 PM.

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#12 Xellie

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:21 PM

I agree and that is why I think an additional WoE would be good. Plus the current WoEs placement is horrible. Eats up the entire weekend and very limited time between them if you run into supply issues between WoEs or any number of other things. Less then 20 hours separates 2 WoE's a week kinda sucks. 

 

For gods vs players, I was including all gods like asprikas/bryns. Honestly, that number has to be pretty close.

 

well when you can go take random 100 econs that aren't defended, everyone gonna have them.

 

you're trying to tell me asprika matters when there are infinite acid bombs available? /derp

 

 

personal woe 1 gods

???????????????????????????????????

 

Who is the fool that makes personal WoE 1 gods for people? Maybe if the GMs weren't making 3x gods per roll or allowing freebies when the quest messed up then there wouldn't be "personal woe 1 gods"


Edited by Xellie, 02 April 2015 - 01:47 PM.

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#13 schia

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:47 PM

Could have 4 woe's a week.  Re-open up all the castles for woe.

 

Have normal woe with all mvp/gods on the same times but only have valf for woe 2, and payon/pront for woe 1 for the 2 normal woes.

 

The days after or before have no gods/mvp woes where its only niff for woe 2, and the other 2 for 2 additional no god/mvp woes.

 

You get more consolidated fights to simulate a "denser" population while also giving players what they want.  Obviously this would require a complete econ/ownership reset.  Loot would also probably have to be redistributed.  To make it more difficult for god items to be acquired, i'm thinking half the pieces should spawn in one realm, while the other half spawn in the other realm.  This would make it so someone dominating in 1 woe type won't be able to non stop farm god items to hand out to their members like candy.

 

For example valf 1 2 3, and niff 4 and 5 should each spawn a set piece.  That way they have to cycle through all 5 castles to farm that god item, they would also have to compete with everyone else without their gods/mvps to complete the sets.  Addressing the gods/mvp disparity would also give starter guilds a better chance at starting up.  Established guilds attempting to attend 4 woes would be extremely taxing on their supplies and their members, so it would be much more difficult to compete in every aspect and dominate it all.  It would be more likely that 2 sets of players would develop, the currently established players that don't want to give up their gods because they don't want an actual challenge and newer/former players that quit due to the huge power disparity would attend the other.  God items would be impossible to just be put on farm without cooperation between multiple guilds, this would either force players to get along and maybe make the woe environment less toxic, or create much more competition to attract more players.  Both aspects would be beneficial to the current -_-ty classic environment.

 

Of course, this should also come with a server wipe.


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#14 Shomaye

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:50 PM

... because I have more personal WoE 1 gods then I can equip (nothing uses megs+ hammer at same time that's useful lol). ... I have earned mine for sure and others have earned theirs. ...

 

o.o Personal dual megs? Did you roll the seals twice when I wasn't looking? Otherwise lemme know what you said in your ticket to get it for free plzzz.


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#15 needmorezleep

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 02:42 PM

its a sad state of woe when i have more fun dropping bwings and sitting novices down in castles than fighting the enemy


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#16 Tribe

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 04:52 PM

The only thing that is going to bring back a non trivial number of players is a new server/reset.
Focus needs to be on how to make the remaining players experience entertaining. If anyone thinks that any change to the current server will get a sizable numbers of players to come back/start is delusional.
Disabling God/mvp items will just cause more people to quit.
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#17 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:01 PM

The only thing that is going to bring back a non trivial number of players is a new server/reset.

 

Which would kill 99% of the existing playerbase fyi. They won't start again, and it's not even a certainty that new or previous players would join given how Loki Classic's name is dragged through the mud in the wider RO community and their personal experiences here.

 

@topic I god damn absolutely want a CM response on this thread. Yesterday.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 02 April 2015 - 05:32 PM.

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#18 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:35 PM

The only thing that is going to bring back a non trivial number of players is a new server/reset.
Focus needs to be on how to make the remaining players experience entertaining. If anyone thinks that any change to the current server will get a sizable numbers of players to come back/start is delusional.
Disabling God/mvp items will just cause more people to quit.

 

It goes like this. No change = bad/losing players. Change = bad/losing players. The major difference is if change has a good chance of bring more players.

 

Ragnarok servers with pre renewal mechanics ("classic" mechanics), has 10's of thousands of players in the playerbase. The amount of people that play pre-renewal is insane for how old it is! 

 

Problem is, people want different things. If people wanted to play on Classic, as is, it would be booming. Obviously something is wrong with the server and that can be factually backed up by looking at how many players/vends/bots are logged in. If something is wrong with the server, that means it can be fixed. I am going to make a thread in the suggestions about why a mid week WoE could be a huge marketing tool for attracting more playerbase.


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#19 Xellie

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:40 PM

It goes like this. No change = bad/losing players. Change = bad/losing players. The major difference is if change has a good chance of bring more players.

 

Ragnarok servers with pre renewal mechanics ("classic" mechanics), has 10's of thousands of players in the playerbase. The amount of people that play pre-renewal is insane for how old it is! 

 

Problem is, people want different things. If people wanted to play on Classic, as is, it would be booming. Obviously something is wrong with the server and that can be factually backed up by looking at how many players/vends/bots are logged in. If something is wrong with the server, that means it can be fixed. I am going to make a thread in the suggestions about why a mid week WoE could be a huge marketing tool for attracting more playerbase.

 

The problem is the management o.o

 

It has nothing to do with gvg crap


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#20 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:15 PM

The problem is the management o.o

 

It has nothing to do with gvg crap

 

What is the problem with management?

 

GvG is part of the game and was since before it got labeled as "gvg". It just has a term to call it for when two guilds fight and the fight isn't involving a precast from either side. That and the population that enjoys that is -_-ing huge!!!!!!!

 

http://forums.warppo...ctice-addition/


Edited by Gn1ydnu, 02 April 2015 - 06:15 PM.

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#21 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:21 PM

thankfully as shown by pservers recreated by the same owner 3 times in under a year players will be back after a wipe despite saying otherwise

 

Well in this case they do have us by the (figurative) balls here in that Classic is the last official Pre-Renewal server. Some people will want to support it because it's the last of its kind, blindly hoping that kRO will see potential in the idea.

 

Nobody I've talked to has said they'll be fine coming back after a wipe though. Nobody really wants to do it all again. imo a server wipe would just be a game of russian roulette with 5 chambered bullets. WP goes first.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 02 April 2015 - 06:21 PM.

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#22 Xellie

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:22 PM

What is the problem with management?

 

GvG is part of the game and was since before it got labeled as "gvg". It just has a term to call it for when two guilds fight and the fight isn't involving a precast from either side. That and the population that enjoys that is -_-ing huge!!!!!!!

 

http://forums.warppo...ctice-addition/

 

 

  • response times
  • lack of acknowledgement of game issues
  • lack of knowledge of game mechanics
  • plans are put out and not followed through
  • implementation of game changing items/mechanics without community consultation
  • cash shop milking
  • lack of foresight
  • lack of advertizing
  • lack of actual game promotion
  • BiS/Meta gear in RNG cash shop boxes
  • mental pots/mega resist pots same deal

 

I could go on....

 

gvg is a construct made by people who sucked at politics. WoE is "war" not a predetermined set of rules regarding numbers/placements/items.

 

There's a time and a place for gvg, but woe shouldn't be built around it, that is silly.


Edited by Xellie, 02 April 2015 - 07:01 PM.

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#23 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:25 PM

 

  • response times
  • lack of acknowledgement of game issues
  • lack of knowledge of game mechanics
  • plans are put out and not followed through
  • implementation of game changing items/mechanics without community consultation
  • cash shop milking

 

I could go on....

 

gvg is a construct made by people who sucked at politics. WoE is "war" not a predetermined set of rules regarding numbers/placements/items.

 

There's a time and a place for gvg, but woe shouldn't be built around it, that is silly.

 

 

You forgot

  • Consulting the community about trivial -_- that doesn't even matter, that anyone with experience in the game could just push straight in without problems.

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#24 schia

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:29 PM

What is the problem with management?

 

GvG is part of the game and was since before it got labeled as "gvg". It just has a term to call it for when two guilds fight and the fight isn't involving a precast from either side. That and the population that enjoys that is -_-ing huge!!!!!!!

 

http://forums.warppo...ctice-addition/

 

management did some poor choices in the implementations they did, but they did it all based on player feedback.  People are blaming the management instead of looking at themselves.  Its like someone shooting up a school, and blaming the gun dealers for the deaths instead of the shooter.  People want a scapegoat, and blaming the management is the easy way out.  While the management are partly responsible for doing implementations that catered towards short term goals instead of long term goals, its still the ultimately the player's fault for pushing for such things and abusing the hell out of it to the point where they ruined their own server.


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#25 Xellie

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:31 PM

management did some poor choices in the implementations they did, but they did it all based on player feedback.  People are blaming the management instead of looking at themselves.  Its like someone shooting up a school, and blaming the gun dealers for the deaths instead of the shooter.  People want a scapegoat, and blaming the management is the easy way out.  While the management are partly responsible for doing implementations that catered towards short term goals instead of long term goals, its still the ultimately the player's fault for pushing for such things and abusing the hell out of it to the point where they ruined their own server.

 

Actually they chose not to listen to the majority of us (see god items, etc.)


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