649 replies to this topic

[Inubashiri]

New WoE, Rambo Mode, portals now cast Level 5 Crit Wound enter at your own risk, okay done.

[Necrohealiac]

New WoE, Rambo Mode, portals now cast Level 5 Crit Wound enter at your own risk, okay done.

[Myzery]

New WoE, Rambo Mode, portals now cast Level 5 Crit Wound enter at your own risk, okay done.

 

And people defending get fatigue which cuts all stats by half, right?

[Viri]

New WoE, Rambo Mode, portals now cast Level 5 Crit Wound enter at your own risk, okay done.

 

My autopot already pots % heal items, no big deal.

[Xellie]

Well if there is a way to introduce logs without lag, I believe that's the most effective way to detect it.

Alex I believe a larger portion of players probably quit because of autopot than what we would lose. Also I like to think that only 10% of players use autopot. I have a bad feeling that I'm wrong on that number though. Maybe I shouldn't have so much faith in the players. And I dont believe getting a temp ban (at the moment I don't believe in perma bans for some degrees of cheating in woe) on an account publicly shames anyone.

 

WoE 2 sundays ago and the amount of people that logged out over autopot disagree with you. I watch and listen people refuse to play weekly because they catch an opponent autopotting, specifically. If reports worked, none of this would have ever made it to the forums.

 

And here's the thing; the people doing it 90% of the time are temp players who only show up when one or two people hunt the supplies once every other month or something and/or use accounts that aren't theirs anyway - so we know the GM team can't check every player individually.

and we know that the cheaters would need to be reported.

and we know they probably won't be there or on that character the following week.
 

[Synapsse]

You can't really catch someone autopotting when they are a sacrificed target. Most everyone actually pots when apples comes up afaik, don't see why you wouldn't want max HP in WoE. most players spam while under fire, a lot of people have grs, drs, other damage reductions.. you can survive an infinite amount of bombs.

 

Again I don't agree with using it, but you're not going to specifically catch people using it in WoE just bywatching . If you're using skills you pot faster, I'm pretty sure you're aware of that..soo watching the potion animation doesn't really say much either.

 

The only way to really say for sure is if someone is clearly idle, and you lutie them and they start potting..doing that in an active area says nothing at all.

[Xellie]

You can't really catch someone autopotting when they are a sacrificed target. Most everyone actually pots when apples comes up afaik, don't see why you wouldn't want max HP in WoE. most players spam while under fire, a lot of people have grs, drs, other damage reductions.. you can survive an infinite amount of bombs.

 

Again I don't agree with using it, but you're not going to specifically catch people using it in WoE just bywatching . If you're using skills you pot faster, I'm pretty sure you're aware of that..soo watching the potion animation doesn't really say much either.

 

The only way to really say for sure is if someone is clearly idle, and you lutie them and they start potting..doing that in an active area says nothing at all.

 

You'd have to be one helluva weak chick to autopot on a paladin

 

I'm aware of all that. Everyone my guildmates caught was idle and they may have incorrectly assumed that these people aren't turning their autopots off for combat and on to afk!

[squirreI]

WoE 2 sundays ago and the amount of people that logged out over autopot disagree with you. I watch and listen people refuse to play weekly because they catch an opponent autopotting, specifically. If reports worked, none of this would have ever made it to the forums.

 

And here's the thing; the people doing it 90% of the time are temp players who only show up when one or two people hunt the supplies once every other month or something and/or use accounts that aren't theirs anyway - so we know the GM team can't check every player individually.

and we know that the cheaters would need to be reported.

and we know they probably won't be there or on that character the following week.
 

 

Not really sure what part you disagree with, but I'm going to assume it was regarding the temp bans.

 

GMs need to make their presence known before they can consider throwing out perma bans. Once it is known, the people who normally wouldn't cheat will stop.

Edited by squirreI, 25 June 2015 - 01:02 PM.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Not really sure what part you disagree with, but I'm going to assume it was regarding the temp bans.

 

GMs need to make their presence known before they can consider throwing out perma bans. Once it is known, the people who normally wouldn't cheat will stop.

 

N>More manpower

 

N>More money to pay them

 

N>Said manpower to work outside of standard hours for some WoEs

 

N>Intensive training and practical game knowledge so they know what they're looking for

[squirreI]

^Is that justification for throwing out permabans once every ~6 months?

 

Or is that justification for the legalization of autopot? a lazy alternative imo.

 

Woe is only 4 hours, and yes it happens to be on a weekend. If you can't get 4 hours out of a single person on a weekend, then we may have a problem worse than autopot. I do think that 1 GM could make some impact, and players will at least be aware of some risk.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

^Is that justification for throwing out permabans once every ~6 months?

 

Or is that justification for the legalization of autopot? a lazy alternative imo.

 

Woe is only 4 hours, and yes it happens to be on a weekend. If you can't get 4 hours out of a single person on a weekend, then we may have a problem worse than autopot. I do think that 1 GM could make some impact, and players will at least be aware of some risk.

 

Neither. Just saying it's not quite so easy to "get more GMs and ban more people".

 

Pretty sure (not 100% though) the GMs can't be into RO since it's a conflict of interest. Plus they deal with RO 5 days a week already. Would you take time out of your weekend, paid or unpaid, to monitor a game you don't particularly enjoy? They don't have the same commitment to RO that we do.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 25 June 2015 - 01:49 PM.

[squirreI]

Maybe they should move some of those hours to the weekend. I'm not saying work more, I'm saying work on the weekend. The community needs that more it seems.

Edited by squirreI, 25 June 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Thyrial]

^Is that justification for throwing out permabans once every ~6 months?

 

Or is that justification for the legalization of autopot? a lazy alternative imo.

 

Woe is only 4 hours, and yes it happens to be on a weekend. If you can't get 4 hours out of a single person on a weekend, then we may have a problem worse than autopot. I do think that 1 GM could make some impact, and players will at least be aware of some risk.

 

1 GM can't make an impact simply because it's too hard for them to be sure what they are seeing is auto-pot. The question here has never been about what kind of punishment they should give out, it's about that fact that they have zero way of positively identifying auto potters and accidentally punishing legit players is a very quick way to push people off the server.

[Kadelia]

Solution tell kro to somehow encrypt the memory addresses and packets for hp so that autopot programs can't work

Or have client detect if a third party app is reading its memory addresses and respond with a d/c?

Something like that.

Get to it. Chop chop

Edited by Jaye, 25 June 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[Myzery]

They have and do have people watching, but a lot of the time it's hard to distinguish who is and isn't cheating.

NDL on Classic is a bit different, but it's so hit or miss on who gets punished.

[squirreI]

I noticed there was a GM 2 sundays ago. Cell I couldn't step on was moving and MPs didn't show it.

 

Watching isn't good enough. I don't know about you guys, but I think lutie makes autopot look very obvious. GMs should be casting that, not simply watching.

[needmorezleep]

Solution tell kro to somehow encrypt the memory addresses and packets for hp so that autopot programs can't work

Or have client detect if a third party app is reading its memory addresses and respond with a d/c?

Something like that.

Get to it. Chop chop

take a guess what harmony used to do? gepard also does this and it doesnt really work

Edited by needmorezleep, 25 June 2015 - 02:04 PM.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

1 GM can't make an impact simply because it's too hard for them to be sure what they are seeing is auto-pot. The question here has never been about what kind of punishment they should give out, it's about that fact that they have zero way of positively identifying auto potters and accidentally punishing legit players is a very quick way to push people off the server.

 

So true lol. And a typical WoE is an absolute cluster-_- anyway. I remember when I first started and watched other people WoEing I couldn't make heads or tails of what was going on. GMs probably feel the same.

 

Kaliedo should hep with that though. +1 Sec9.

 

They have and do have people watching, but a lot of the time it's hard to distinguish who is and isn't cheating.

NDL on Classic is a bit different, but it's so hit or miss on who gets punished.

 

If they don't show themselves somehow then it's a failure as a deterrence. If people get banned from using AP during WoE the first assumption is that they were player reported.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 25 June 2015 - 02:07 PM.

[Thyrial]

Solution tell kro to somehow encrypt the memory addresses and packets for hp so that autopot programs can't work

Or have client detect if a third party app is reading its memory addresses and respond with a d/c?

Something like that.

Get to it. Chop chop

 

Detecting third party apps is exactly what security software like gameguard and harmony do, guess how long it took them to bypass Harmony? (which is far better than gameguard)... about a day.

 

You can't encrypt memory addresses, that's not the way it works. You can have them shift every time the client restarts but all you need to do is add a simple analyzer that asks you to put your HP in, change it, put it in again, change it and put it in again and poof it'll find the new address. And even if they managed to completely hide the HP number in some mystical impossible way, you can just write an AP program that uses the actual in game HP display as it's measurement instead of the actual HP value in memory.

 

All of these things have been tried by the pserver community and beaten by the people making these programs repeatedly.

 

 

So true lol. And a typical WoE is an absolute cluster-_- anyway. I remember when I first started and watched other people WoEing I couldn't make heads or tails of what was going on. GMs probably feel the same.

 

Kaliedo should hep with that though. +1 Sec9.

 

I wish it would, but as I've said before, visually autopotting is identical to macro potting or potting with multiple keys. Even with no visual clutter there's no telling who is and isn't using it.

Edited by Thyrial, 25 June 2015 - 02:17 PM.

[needmorezleep]

also graphical autopots c:

[AlmrOfAtlas]

One step forward two steps back. Then falling down the stairs and having to start all over again hehe

[squirreI]

So true lol. And a typical WoE is an absolute cluster-_- anyway. I remember when I first started and watched other people WoEing I couldn't make heads or tails of what was going on. GMs probably feel the same.

 

I guess I should have clarified that I know they won't get much out of something like a GvG.

 

I was hoping they would target idle characters and as far as characters not actively involved in a fight. And I know that this isn't going to completely solve the problem, but until that fix, it would be a good start.

 

Do GMs have a command that can reduce a players hp? I'd imagine that could work pretty well.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

I wish it would, but as I've said before, visually autopotting is identical to macro potting or potting with multiple keys. Even with no visual clutter there's no telling who is and isn't using it.

 

Said that before as well, several times in this thread and the long lost Classic Cheating one which was this thing's predecessor. That's why monitoring packets on the backend to pinpoint characters would need to go hand-in-hand with it. Even that's kinda iffy though, so it's not really a viable solution right now.

 

I guess I should have clarified that I know they won't get much out of something like a GvG.

 

I was hoping they would target idle characters and as far as characters not actively involved in a fight. And I know that this isn't going to completely solve the problem, but until that fix, it would be a good start.

 

Do GMs have a command that can reduce a players hp? I'd imagine that could work pretty well.

 

They could probably Coma on demand. Heck even if there wasn't a command they could throw in an item that procs it from a targeted skill at a 100% rate.

 

Idle characters is a stretch. Unlike what happened with a certain stupid Pally most people don't leave their AP on or fail to config it to avoid that situation.

[squirreI]

Idle characters is a stretch. Unlike what happened with a certain stupid Pally most people don't leave their AP on or fail to config it to avoid that situation.

 

Did you read what I said about idiots? I still think it's a good start.

[Inubashiri]

take a guess what harmony used to do? gepard also does this and it doesnt really work

 

Crap you beat me to it, also any encryption has to have a decryption algorithm and its very easy to unpack that in the assembly.

 

also graphical autopots c:

 

Also OCR https://en.wikipedia...ter_recognition C:

 

I guess I should have clarified that I know they won't get much out of something like a GvG.

 

I was hoping they would target idle characters and as far as characters not actively involved in a fight. And I know that this isn't going to completely solve the problem, but until that fix, it would be a good start.

 

Do GMs have a command that can reduce a players hp? I'd imagine that could work pretty well.

 

Not a command but certainly Angra Manyu would do it.