649 replies to this topic

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Did you read what I said about idiots? I still think it's a good start.

 

Yeah that's the thing though it would catch like... 2 people. And deter nobody else.

[squirreI]

Not a command but certainly Angra Manyu would do it.

 

Can you do this while staying invisible? Someone attacking you might trigger the reaction before they actually take damage.

[Thyrial]

Yeah that's the thing though it would catch like... 2 people. And deter nobody else.

 ^ this

 

The thing is, it would catch the people that aren't very familiar with the programs and haven't used them a lot while the people that have been cheating all this time or are familiar with them from pservers will have absolutely nothing to worry about.

[squirreI]

Sort of why I mentioned that it should be done on people who aren't in direct combat. You'll get a few of the smarter people.

[Thyrial]

Sort of why I mentioned that it should be done on people who aren't in direct combat. You'll get a few of the smarter people.

 

Nope cause the smart people have it hotkeyed and enable/disable between combat. I understand your hope and love the optimism but it just won't have any real impact.

[Inubashiri]

Can you do this while staying invisible? Someone attacking you might trigger the reaction before they actually take damage.

 

auto attack?  Sure.

[Ambur]

I like how easy people make it sound in words. Too bad it doesn't work like that. How do you enforce it, while not completely killing the population, while being fair (this is a big concern), while not making it severely time consuming and costly? 1 person can easily take a dozen people with them when they go, if not more. Just from thinking of Renewal, you'll lose a huge chunk of that woe population enforcing AP. Can the population handle that? Sadly there is a huge picture behind each punishment and reward.

I wish there was a way to server side block such things because of such but as far as I have read, that isn't possible. :\

[Viri]

I like how easy people make it sound in words. Too bad it doesn't work like that. How do you enforce it, while not completely killing the population, while being fair (this is a big concern), while not making it severely time consuming and costly? 1 person can easily take a dozen people with them when they go, if not more. Just from thinking of Renewal, you'll lose a huge chunk of that woe population enforcing AP. Can the population handle that? Sadly there is a huge picture behind each punishment and reward.

I wish there was a way to server side block such things because of such but as far as I have read, that isn't possible. :\

 

All they have to do is make a formal announcement a few days/a week in advance or whatever. We will be looking for this, if we catch you, permaban. No do overs. If people still do it, let them get banned.

[ZeroTigress]

Drinking animation for potions. I'd love to see how our characters use the stuff while trying to smack others.

[Inubashiri]

Can I play devil's advocate for a minute, is it really permaban if its first offense?  Shouldn't people get a chance to reform or does it have to be absolute?  I can tell you courts of law don't always do that if circumstances warrant it.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Drinking animation for potions. I'd love to see how our characters use the stuff while trying to smack others.

 

 

And obligatory macho posturing after the drink ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 25 June 2015 - 03:04 PM.

[squirreI]

Nope cause the smart people have it hotkeyed and enable/disable between combat. I understand your hope and love the optimism but it just won't have any real impact.

 

Some players will try harder to avoid getting caught because they want to use the cheats.

 

Other players will stop cheating because they don't want to cheat and the other side isn't cheating/isn't cheating as much anymore.

 

Other players will fail to hide from the GMs.

 

Then you have to ask, which population is the biggest? For it to make a real impact, does it have to stop more than half of the autopotters?

 

auto attack?  Sure.

 

Then I hope you've been provided you with an option that hasn't been considered yet.

 

I like how easy people make it sound in words. Too bad it doesn't work like that. How do you enforce it, while not completely killing the population, while being fair (this is a big concern), while not making it severely time consuming and costly? 1 person can easily take a dozen people with them when they go, if not more. Just from thinking of Renewal, you'll lose a huge chunk of that woe population enforcing AP. Can the population handle that? Sadly there is a huge picture behind each punishment and reward.

I wish there was a way to server side block such things because of such but as far as I have read, that isn't possible. :\

 

Think about the players you will keep though. I can't confirm that's a larger population than the amount of cheaters, but I'm going to assume it is. Also, I like Viri's comment. Serious warning is enough for perma bans.

Edited by squirreI, 25 June 2015 - 03:13 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

But he's not smacking anything while chugging. :U

[KamiKali]

Some players will try harder to avoid getting caught because they want to use the cheats.

 

Other players will stop cheating because they don't want to cheat and the other side isn't cheating/isn't cheating as much anymore.

 

Other players will fail to hide from the GMs.

 

Then you have to ask, which population is the biggest?

 

 

Then I hope you've been provided you with an option that hasn't been considered yet.

 

 

Think about the players you will keep though. I can't confirm that's a larger population than the amount of cheaters, but I'm going to assume it is. Also, I like Viri's comment. Serious warning is enough for perma bans.

 

I think she's (Ambur) saying if they legalize AP, they'll lose a horribly large amount of WoE population on renewal.

[squirreI]

I think she's (Ambur) saying if they legalize AP, they'll lose a horribly large amount of WoE population on renewal.

 

Well I don't know anything about renewal. And I think I just read "enforcing autopot".

[Xellie]

Some players will try harder to avoid getting caught because they want to use the cheats.

 

Other players will stop cheating because they don't want to cheat and the other side isn't cheating/isn't cheating as much anymore.

 

Considering they cheat against people who aren't cheating in the first place ¬.¬
 

[squirreI]

Considering they cheat against people who aren't cheating in the first place ¬.¬
 

 

That's a good point lol. But I will say that some people are convinced that a lot of VH uses autopot. So I still stand by what I said, but I guess you can move a little bit of that population distribution to the top sentence.

 

Accusations are kind of a waste of time though.

[Xellie]

That's a good point lol. But I will say that some people are convinced that a lot of VH uses autopot. So I still stand by what I said, but I guess you can move a little bit of that population distribution to the top sentence.

 

Accusations are kind of a waste of time though.

 

Yeah, not really interested in the accusations, only in defending the position of my guildmates who push for a cheatfree world and say that 3pps are the mark of a bad player

 

Which raises the other point, it'll never go away because everyone thinks everyone is using it, true or not.

Edited by Xellie, 25 June 2015 - 03:37 PM.

[Kadelia]

Detecting third party apps is exactly what security software like gameguard and harmony do, guess how long it took them to bypass Harmony? (which is far better than gameguard)... about a day.

You can't encrypt memory addresses, that's not the way it works. You can have them shift every time the client restarts but all you need to do is add a simple analyzer that asks you to put your HP in, change it, put it in again, change it and put it in again and poof it'll find the new address. And even if they managed to completely hide the HP number in some mystical impossible way, you can just write an AP program that uses the actual in game HP display as it's measurement instead of the actual HP value in memory.

All of these things have been tried by the pserver community and beaten by the people making these programs repeatedly.


I wish it would, but as I've said before, visually autopotting is identical to macro potting or potting with multiple keys. Even with no visual clutter there's no telling who is and isn't using it.

@encrypting memory
Sure you can!
Do it the analog way.
Cipher the data.

Split hp into 2 addresses where the first has an arbitrary cap, and wish people the best of luck figuring out where hp is stored.

[Nyuunyan]

@encrypting memory
Sure you can!
Do it the analog way.
Cipher the data.

Split hp into 2 addresses where the first has an arbitrary cap, and wish people the best of luck figuring out where hp is stored.

 

Security through obscurity is almost never the answer, there are plenty of people who would come to RO just to break the security on the client for fun and ego. I participated in a national cyber security contest not too long ago and one of the challenges was to break a binary obfuscation very similar to what you've described, I managed to complete it in about 15 minutes and I'm sure many other people got it even faster.

[Thyrial]

@encrypting memory
Sure you can!
Do it the analog way.
Cipher the data.

Split hp into 2 addresses where the first has an arbitrary cap, and wish people the best of luck figuring out where hp is stored.

 

Except as I said, reading the HP from memory is only one way to do it, there are already auto potters that work from the visual data of the client as opposed to reading from memory. As long as we can see our own HP, auto-potting will work.

[needmorezleep]

so oda unlocked when?

http://forums.warppo...cussion-thread/

[Kadelia]

Security through obscurity is almost never the answer, there are plenty of people who would come to RO just to break the security on the client for fun and ego. I participated in a national cyber security contest not too long ago and one of the challenges was to break a binary obfuscation very similar to what you've described, I managed to complete it in about 15 minutes and I'm sure many other people got it even faster.

I doubt this would happen ... RO isn't as popular as we'd like.

[Inubashiri]

so oda unlocked when?

http://forums.warppo...cussion-thread/

 

nao

 

I doubt this would happen ... RO isn't as popular as we'd like.

 

Please go back and read posts of myself, ren, needmorezleep and Nyuu before you respond again please ~_~

Edited by Inubashiri, 25 June 2015 - 04:38 PM.

[renouille]

there are already auto potters that work from the visual data of the client as opposed to reading from memory

in b4 "replace hp display with captcha image"