429 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

those cooldown times are joke when you are having a look at RK

 

Cooldowns for 12 or so other lvl 100+ classes are a joke next to RK/Ranger/GX

[Eternityzero]

then nerf pls

[Hissis]

Cooldowns for 12 or so other lvl 100+ classes are a joke next to RK/Ranger/GX

 

At least Ranger die 1 hit for almost everything....

[KyrieDielle]

At least Ranger die 1 hit for almost everything....

 

Haha. True. unless you have TGK, maybe.

[ShinobiEX3]

Cooldowns for 12 or so other lvl 100+ classes are a joke next to RK/Ranger

fixed

[WolfTri]

Well. In popular perception, there's two degrees of uselessness. Things like Wanderer, Super Novice, Expanded Classes, Mechanic, etc. are expected to be and accepted as useless in all or most situations (exceptions like Mech for SD). People have come to terms with the fact that they're useless to the point of unviability. No one does anything on a mechanic when SD is on cooldown. That's just what's expected of that class. Warlock, on the other hand, isn't useless enough to *just* be a Stasis slave. It's sort of in that gray area, and while it's still usable, it feels weak. This might be because it used to be a relatively strong class before WoE set, etc. and before the Mora rebalance update, whereas Wanderer, Mech, Expanded Classes have always been just as useless as they are now. So people won't as easily admit that Warlock is a completely redundant class. 

In my personal opinion, though, Warlock is still pretty good, and brings a reasonable amount of unique utility and a unique form of sustained damage to the WoE scene. I definitely wouldn't call it the "most useless, yet not alt-tab level useless" class. Sienna, White Imprison, Earth Strain, Stasis are all unique in their own right and have a good degree of crowd control. Intensification with Soul Expansion is absolutely devastating with the right gear, and unlike Arrow Storm, it cannot be blocked by commonly used skills such as Pneuma. It is also not easily reducible, as it is Ghost element, and magic type. Getting reductions for that will require you to cut down on other kinds of reductions, typically.

I also think Wanderers' abilities are largely downplayed and underestimated, I wouldn't personally consider them to be alt-tab level :v 

Edited by WolfTri, 13 March 2016 - 08:20 AM.

[Hissis]

Well. In popular perception, there's two degrees of uselessness. Things like Wanderer, Super Novice, Expanded Classes, Mechanic, etc. are expected to be and accepted as useless in all or most situations (exceptions like Mech for SD). People have come to terms with the fact that they're useless to the point of unviability. No one does anything on a mechanic when SD is on cooldown. That's just what's expected of that class. Warlock, on the other hand, isn't useless enough to *just* be a Stasis slave. It's sort of in that gray area, and while it's still usable, it feels weak. This might be because it used to be a relatively strong class before WoE set, etc. and before the Mora rebalance update, whereas Wanderer, Mech, Expanded Classes have always been just as useless as they are now. So people won't as easily admit that Warlock is a completely redundant class. 

In my personal opinion, though, Warlock is still pretty good, and brings a reasonable amount of unique utility and a unique form of sustained damage to the WoE scene. I definitely wouldn't call it the "most useless, yet not alt-tab level useless" class. Sienna, White Imprison, Earth Strain, Stasis are all unique in their own right and have a good degree of crowd control. Intensification with Soul Expansion is absolutely devastating with the right gear, and unlike Arrow Storm, it cannot be blocked by commonly used skills such as Pneuma. It is also not easily reducible, as it is Ghost element, and magic type. Getting reductions for that will require you to cut down on other kinds of reductions, typically.

I also think Wanderers' abilities are largely downplayed and underestimated, I wouldn't personally consider them to be alt-tab level :v 

 

agree

 

but people underestimate expanded classes too 

 

┐(￣ヘ￣)┌

Edited by Hissis, 13 March 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[Kadelia]

Well. In popular perception, there's two degrees of uselessness. Things like Wanderer, Super Novice, Expanded Classes, Mechanic, etc. are expected to be and accepted as useless in all or most situations (exceptions like Mech for SD). People have come to terms with the fact that they're useless to the point of unviability. No one does anything on a mechanic when SD is on cooldown. That's just what's expected of that class. Warlock, on the other hand, isn't useless enough to *just* be a Stasis slave. It's sort of in that gray area, and while it's still usable, it feels weak. This might be because it used to be a relatively strong class before WoE set, etc. and before the Mora rebalance update, whereas Wanderer, Mech, Expanded Classes have always been just as useless as they are now. So people won't as easily admit that Warlock is a completely redundant class. 

In my personal opinion, though, Warlock is still pretty good, and brings a reasonable amount of unique utility and a unique form of sustained damage to the WoE scene. I definitely wouldn't call it the "most useless, yet not alt-tab level useless" class. Sienna, White Imprison, Earth Strain, Stasis are all unique in their own right and have a good degree of crowd control. Intensification with Soul Expansion is absolutely devastating with the right gear, and unlike Arrow Storm, it cannot be blocked by commonly used skills such as Pneuma. It is also not easily reducible, as it is Ghost element, and magic type. Getting reductions for that will require you to cut down on other kinds of reductions, typically.

I also think Wanderers' abilities are largely downplayed and underestimated, I wouldn't personally consider them to be alt-tab level :v 

 

Rather, I think the 5 or so strongest classes get downplayed in their overpoweredness, and the weakest 5 get heavily understated in their uselessness, and people spend all day talking about why the middle 10 should be as strong as the top 5. Makes me want to put the community in a locked freezer.

[Joatmon]

Yeah WL sucks. I only see few WLs in WoE and tons of Suras and SCs. If the class was originally strong, there would be many Wls already. Everyone picks to play the best class for themselves xD

Wl can be strong but you need a lot of passion and dedication. If you complain about Wl, then change to play Sura or SC for WoE and Gen for PvM /2ez

 

Strength isn't really a factor, Suras and SCs are just "flashy troll yay" classes.

[bloodyrascal]

I love Warlock.
I love Warlock.
I love Warlock.
I love Warlock.
I love.....
.............. Warlocked.

[Andini]

a warlock is an amazing class in woe.  i think what a lot of ppl forget to realize is that outside of stasis alts, a warlock can only realize it's true potential which is amazing when sacced by a good rg.  that's one of the reasons you will see more of other classes in woe vs warlocks.  warlocks are truly dependent on the support that they have around them.  if they have that support, they are easily top tier

[KamiKali]

if dini was on any class in woe, it'd be amazing

[Zayik]

In terms of pvm, I do find warlocks to be a little lackluster when it comes to higher end content. (Low TI and Mid TI, they can be amazing but usually the mobs tend to have low mdef and low life).

 

Despite having a matk of roughly 250 + 600  on top of 20% matk from gears, I find that I am unable to compete with most classes in terms of dps/usefullness. This is partially due to the immense fixed cast times that WLs have and the high mdef many higher level monsters have. (I use cast reduction gears as well to help mitigate the cast time, equaling about 80% fcr).  Usually by the time I am done casting crimson rock, or even just releasing spells, another class has already instakilled a high lvl mob. I find myself constantly casting spells that never hit their target due to the mobs already being killed, or dealing minimal damage in which another class will proceed to deal 2-3 times that in roughly the same time.  I also can't think of any other class where it cost resources, 800+ sp, and 1+second(s) of preparation to do 30k avg dmg AoE.

 

 

I don't mind not having the top dmg, I just wish that it was a bit closer to some of the other classes potentials. As a warlock with quite a few gears, I find myself resorting to spamming frost nova on stray monsters that are trying to get to our ABs, At least I have some use there. 

I know there are probably warlocks out there who find much more use in their class, and if so, that is fantastic! This is just my experience playing a warlock.

 

In terms of WoE, I am completely illiterate so I can't give any comments there.

[Ashuckel]

Radius lv3 gives you basically sacra lv4 permanently(when maxed)'-'

Edited by Ashuckel, 13 March 2016 - 04:29 PM.

[Eternityzero]

i have read somewhere, that fixed cast time reductions dont stack, so you are stuck with your long cast times long delays and crappy dmg

 

 

and lets not forget you can not mystical amplify your memorized spells

Edited by Eternityzero, 13 March 2016 - 05:02 PM.

[Sewasan]

i have read somewhere, that fixed cast time reductions dont stack, so you are stuck with your long cast times long delays and crappy dmg

 

 

and lets not forget you can not mystical amplify your memorized spells

 

1.- Percentual fixed cast time reductions dont stack, but the fixed ones do stack, like temporal dex+bellum+sacrament actually do (just with one example)

2.- And yes you can, but is expensive

[yuckani]

i love my wl 

[Joatmon]

I don't care if they're -_-, I love just watching the damned class.

[Kusanagisama]

Funny how a necro'd thread is still alive and kicking.

 

You all can thank me later.

[Kusanagisama]

Well. In popular perception, there's two degrees of uselessness. Things like Wanderer, Super Novice, Expanded Classes, Mechanic, etc. are expected to be and accepted as useless in all or most situations (exceptions like Mech for SD). People have come to terms with the fact that they're useless to the point of unviability. No one does anything on a mechanic when SD is on cooldown. That's just what's expected of that class. Warlock, on the other hand, isn't useless enough to *just* be a Stasis slave. It's sort of in that gray area, and while it's still usable, it feels weak. This might be because it used to be a relatively strong class before WoE set, etc. and before the Mora rebalance update, whereas Wanderer, Mech, Expanded Classes have always been just as useless as they are now. So people won't as easily admit that Warlock is a completely redundant class. 

In my personal opinion, though, Warlock is still pretty good, and brings a reasonable amount of unique utility and a unique form of sustained damage to the WoE scene. I definitely wouldn't call it the "most useless, yet not alt-tab level useless" class. Sienna, White Imprison, Earth Strain, Stasis are all unique in their own right and have a good degree of crowd control. Intensification with Soul Expansion is absolutely devastating with the right gear, and unlike Arrow Storm, it cannot be blocked by commonly used skills such as Pneuma. It is also not easily reducible, as it is Ghost element, and magic type. Getting reductions for that will require you to cut down on other kinds of reductions, typically.

I also think Wanderers' abilities are largely downplayed and underestimated, I wouldn't personally consider them to be alt-tab level :v 

 

I think you're right in most of what you said, but I'd like to see my favorite class' role unchanged. If Wizard and High Wizard used to be the Highest AoE dammage class with some AoE disable, this shouldn't be changed. If I played a tank class that got better at tanking (RG?) OR equal at tanking and better at killing (RK?), it would be ok. If it was a support class that gained the ability to kill or to tank better than before, that would be great, but they kept the classes weaknesses (Squishiness, Long Cast/Delay/Cooldown times), took away a lot of their dammage (in comparison to other dammage oriented classes) and gave them some awkward or extremely situational utility (Like WI, that you can use to tank High Tier MVPs, but you can almost never use it when you are alone, and have little other utility, or Stasis that's great on PVP/WoE, but can destroy your own party if misused).

 

I think that all those classes mentioned as low-tier should receive some love and be buffed... PLUS those outlier OP classes should be nerfed accordingly. From my point of view, wanderers (and even Maestros, that are greatly required because of Strings) would be way more viable if they could cast Severe Rainstorm with a whip/instrument and within a 2nd Class song (with Voice Lessons 5+). Its strange that a game like LoL, wich have more than a hundred characters have, like, monthly character specific nerf/buff packages, and a game like Ragnarok, with just a few classes, receive so little attention in this regard. Even though it's an old game and stuff, Gravity should do a job at least a little better about classes balance.

 

Sorry for the bad english.

Edited by Kusanagisama, 14 March 2016 - 10:20 AM.

[Eternityzero]

"I think that all those classes mentioned as low-tier should receive some love and be buffed... PLUS those outlier OP classes should be nerfed accordingly. From my point of view, wanderers (and even Maestros, that are greatly required because of Strings) would be way more viable if they could cast Severe Rainstorm with a whip/instrument and within a 2nd Class song (with Voice Lessons 5+). Its strange that a game like LoL, wich have more than a hundred characters have, like, monthly character specific nerf/buff packages, and a game like Ragnarok, with just a few classes, receive so little attention in this regard. Even though it's an old game and stuff, Gravity should do a job at least a little better about classes balance."

 

+1 to that

 

i would really like to see some balancing of the classes on the one hand and on the other of the cards, for example give dmg bonus to some -_-ty skill from pre renewal, that today noone uses anymore

 

so instead of pushing out some pointless instances or islands they should fix the game in the first place

Edited by Eternityzero, 14 March 2016 - 10:46 AM.

[Myzery]

I'm not sure why people compare games like LoL to RO.
LoL and other mobas are highly competitive, that's why they are balanced constantly.
When someone is picking a certain champion 70% of the time or is getting banned in 100% of games, there's something wrong.

People on RO have lost a sense of a class being balanced around supporting a party or being supported by someone else.

[ChakriGuard]

Classes are actually quite balanced. Dont you all know RWC? /hmm

Wht makes classes unbalanced are gears ie MvPs and Gods. Im not sure whats hard to undersand xD

[Eternityzero]

i dont know how people are getting the idea of calling WL a support class, when almost all skills are offensive

[Kusanagisama]

i dont know how people are getting the idea of calling WL a support class, when almost all skills are offensive

 

PLUS the original classe from where WL came is an almost purely offensive class.