241 replies to this topic

[Inubashiri]

I have no skin in the server and no opinion other than most likely it will be section 9's responsibility should there be the decision to implement a macro potting feature which will undoubtedly attach a stigma on us of stupid proportions

[Kadelia]

TIL volunteers can somehow be forced to do something they aren't comfortable doing.

[VModCinnamon]

Any further none constructive/troll post or an attempt to stir drama will not be tolerated, stay on topic or risk your posting rights.

[schia]

everyone could just go back to cheating, keep crying about it and have nothing done, or resolve it on their own.   Like i said in the past, this is a community driven problem.  Perhaps we should look at what causes the community to cheat in the first place.

 

Since no one wants to identify the root cause in the past, I don't think any of the staff or community can or will do something about cheating.  Legalize autopotting? Sure that would mask some symptoms, but we'd still not have addressed the issues that caused this in the first place.  No one takes any of you guys seriously, yes that includes you forum knights and community leaders, because everyone tries to hide their intentions.  No one actually cares about the community except for their own clique.  This problem will continue to persist until we resolve this on a community level.  First step would be identifying the problem.

 

Addressing why the community wants to cheat may also identify why certain members continues to troll and ask others to post upon their behalf and users don't want to get involved because of this kind of one sided crap. The impression these rants are giving are terrible and drives people away.

[Kadelia]

Basically IRO (and maybe most western games) is populated with sociopaths (people who want to get what they want without regard to future consequences for themselves or their environment, whether they must lie, cheat, or harm to do so.)

Edited by Jaye, 10 August 2015 - 07:48 AM.

[Ambur]

whether they must lie

Sounds like every weekly "discussion" thread that is started using a call out / some sort of passive aggressive bullying but is justified in a more righteous way.

 

Agree with schia, these rant threads just drive more people away.

[Kadelia]

Indeed. One wonders what is productive and what isn't, but a tactic may need to be tested before it can be labeled ineffective.

[Kadelia]

Politicians are frequently regarded as possessing sociopathy as a prerequisite; consider instances where poloticians have persecuted people for on belief or lifestyle, only to later be outted as someone of that Proclivity themselves. It can be baffling. I think in the end, at least in this scenario, is some cheaters see GMs as tools to be weilded against their enemies. Catch all the people who are cheating, so that I may be the only one left cheating, perhaps? Possibly. Personally I think its destructive to the game to have automation at all, regardless of whether or not allowing everyone to cheat levels the field for "fairness". Its pretty lose-lose.

[Rythen]

Sounds like every weekly "discussion" thread that is started using a call out / some sort of passive aggressive bullying but is justified in a more righteous way.

 

Agree with schia, these rant threads just drive more people away.

 

Well if it drives away cheaters then I don't see how that's bad.

 

Plus I think a discussion would be a good idea except it's pretty hard to have a discussion when users are constantly jumping in trying to ruffle feathers and provide no substance to the thread other than "lol another one of these."

[Myzery]

This needs to happen

[UnknownBeing]

Going with my original post since the mocked up one was removed:

Cheating has always been a thing in gaming. Punishing cheaters depends on the situation. If it doesn't benefit or affect the company, usually no action is taken. Again, depends could mean they will take action on a political scale. I will not expand on this but those who knows politics would know what I mean.

Discussions are fine but I will say it will go nowhere to put it bluntly.

Edited by UnknownBeing, 10 August 2015 - 08:56 AM.

[Nathy]

People are only caught with ap because it's adjusted too high. If people were smarter about it no one would even know they were using ap. Not even their guild.

That's why they may as well legalise it because it's virtually unprovable and these gms definitely do not have the resources and knowhow to detect it.

[UnknownBeing]

Adding cooldown would solve it but it's fair to say there will be floods of QQs from players disliking the mechanic.

[Havenn]

send me the video link

[Ambur]

Well if it drives away cheaters then I don't see how that's bad.

Plus I think a discussion would be a good idea except it's pretty hard to have a discussion when users are constantly jumping in trying to ruffle feathers and provide no substance to the thread other than "lol another one of these."

It drives good people away. Cheaters will never care, hence weekly rant threads ensue. If a discussion is what was wanted there are better ways to do it than the current, but as such it's started with fire and filled with fire. It's silly that people think it's not obvious to other forum goers.

[VModCinnamon]

Again, discussing why a discussion is going on or the actual cheat issues? Choose, but this still stands by the way.

[UnknownBeing]

It drives good people away. Cheaters will never care, hence weekly rant threads ensue. If a discussion is what was wanted there are better ways to do it than the current, but as such it's started with fire and filled with fire. It's silly that people think it's not obvious to other forum goers.

I agree. For that same reason, I stopped caring about the game and the community.

[Ambur]

So we can't discuss how multitudes of threads were created and how that's detrimental to a real discussion?

Call out threads renamed as a discussion after woe is an issue.

Classic is in a sad place and these endless threads haven't had any results for months due to the way they were created / started.

But I've said my peace for now. I've been largely staying out of these recent threads for a reason. Poor Classic.

Edited by Ambur, 10 August 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[schia]

- they want to win

everyone wants to win, but why would people choose to cheat to want to win?  Is there no other alternative to winning besides needing to cheat?

 

- it pisses off the other side (cheating to troll)

what caused them to feel like they need to troll the opposing side?

 

- there are no repercussions

why do they feel that there are no repercussions to cheating?  Are players not policing themselves?

 

- they think it is a mechanic that should be in the game by default

what other game mechanics support cheating?  Too much supply?   Would addressing the infinite supply meta relate to autopotting?

 

- it is something they have used and is accepted on other servers

What led them to believe that rules for different servers are the same and that it is accepted on a different server?  Is there a lack of communication?  If so, why are both sides not communicating effectively.

 

- they believe the other side is cheating.

Are both sides cheating?  If not then why do both sides believe each other is cheating?  Is there a lack of effective communication or perhaps there is lack of trust?

 

- it's so endemic, that guildleaders are frightened to act as they will lose too many people.

Why?  Is the leadership poor and has no firm grasp on player retention?  Is there a lack of intra-guild communication here?  Perhaps there is a lack of respect of the leadership so community guidelines set by the leadership isn't followed.

 

 

 

 

Talking between each other or amongst themselves means nothing if both sides don't listen or respect each other.  At the moment, all i'm seeing is 2 sides shoving fingers in their ears screaming lalalalalalala every time the other person tries to address anything.  Both sides are at fault here, and no one wants to admit to anything.  If people don't want to grow up and actually discuss things and talk about actions they did that led to the other side reciprocating then nothing will get accomplished here.  Everyone would, and still continue to, waste their time while continuously bloating their own ego while pretending to be righteous. 

 

The longer this continues the more difficult it will become to actually get any relevant discussion. Quite frankly, once this reaches the boiling point and both sides resorts to stomping their feet and throwing a tantrum then it would only result in everyone packing up their stuff and leave.  Game over, take the ball home, and find another park to play in.  If people are content in wanting to bicker non stop without even pretending to want to listen, then the only person that they can blame for killing their own game is themselves.  Legalizing autopoting or not does not matter.   Hell legalizing cheating entirely and releasing a client with built in nodelay, maya purple hacks, multi equips, max zoom, and a built in botting feature would still mean absolutely nothing. The base problem that led up to this is still here and people refuse to address it.

 

 

So let me repeat myself.  Why does the community think that it is necessary to cheat to beat the other side?

[squirreI]

GMs need a way to set a players hp/sp to ~20% and then simply restore it. Do that a couple times to detect very fast reaction speed. This is a tool that should be used when players aren't near a fight.

 

If this can't be done, just legalize it. Getting kind of annoying.

[squirreI]

You'll have a lot of people dying because they forget to turn it on, and the fact that the GMs are doing something will stop enough people already. Need a server announcement before woe along the lines of, "We're monitoring woe today, and we're serious this time." I don't know who would set autopot to below 20%. Players need to be able to cast a spell at least too. When there's no action they might want to do that.

I still stand by what I said.

Edited by squirreI, 10 August 2015 - 12:14 PM.

[Gn1ydnu]

No matter what happens I feel wicked bad for the staff. They simply can't please the community as a whole.

-Enforce something that they have admired to being "unenforceable due to catching it and proving it without a doubt". Aka ineffective and does nothing to please the community.

-Legalize it. Puts woe more "even" but will piss off parts of the community.

-go ban heavy. Ultimately innocents will get caught up in this and that would ruin even more credibility. Aka counter productive.

-pretend nothing bad is going on. Aka situation stays the same.

Basically, the poor staff is screwed regardless of what they do or don't do.

[Xellie]

This is where we ask Oda how he would approach the Kobayashi Maru test.

[HeYxNoPe]

lol prevalent ... as if the server has big numbers.

 

Oda: User has been previously banned for causing problems on the forums. Continuing to troll post with alts after a perma ban will result in ingame account suspensions and more. 

[6773131031232342973]

but the question is .  Is gm can detect if that person use Auto Pots ?

 

if xellie can, then gms staff can

Edited by 6773131031232342973, 10 August 2015 - 01:26 PM.