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#26 Necrohealiac

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:25 AM

we already have two renewal servers, and staff can barely mange those 2 + classic. we are not going to get a third one.
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#27 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:44 AM

I know the staff is busy with Thor right now, but since the Russian server will end this month, that'd be a nice workaround for all the newplayers that will arrive here. I also know that this might be impossible right now, but I'd just like to discuss the avaiability of this idea.


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#28 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:45 AM

Uh, no they don't.

 

Do you really think that from this new wave of non-american newcomers NO ONE wants to WoE and that's why there isn't a single competitive guild? Really?

 

Sometimes people want to play as their own guild and they can't because they'll NEVER compete against the active guilds. So they don't even hype enough to start here since they'll be OBLIGATED to join one of the two allies if they want to WoE.

 

Well, can you tell me then one simple thing.

 

Outside of guild owned god creation and fun, what is the reason to do WoE?


Edited by Nirvanna21, 10 November 2015 - 10:57 AM.

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#29 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:54 AM

Well, can you tell me then one simple thing.

 

Outside of guild owned god creation and fun, what is the reason to do WoE?

Uh, are you serious? The reason is because it's fun, it's fun to gather up 30ish friends and log in to play against a real challenge, not an AI Mob that reacts exactly the same. It's also the same reason why MOBAs are so popular nowadays, people want to have fun against real people not only grind against computer controlled monsters and do instances like if it was an obligation everyday.

 

Also, this question was pretty pretentious, I could ask you the same thing about EVERYTHING.

 

"Outside being successful, achieving your personal goals and having fun in your life, what's the reason to be alive?"

 

That makes no sense.


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 10:55 AM.

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#30 Havenn

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:56 AM

Ygg introduced some of the best players into Chaos


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#31 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:57 AM

Uh, are you serious? The reason is because it's fun, it's fun to gather up 30ish friends and log in to play against a real challenge, not an AI Mob that reacts exactly the same. It's also the same reason why MOBAs are so popular nowadays, people want to have fun against real people not only grind against computer controlled monsters and do instances like if it was an obligation everyday.

 

Also, this question was pretty pretentious, I could ask you the same thing about EVERYTHING.

 

"Outside being successful, achieving your personal goals and having fun in your life, what's the reason to be alive?"

 

That makes no sense.

 

Clearly one did not read the entire message. Try again.


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#32 Kadelia

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:58 AM

Ygg introduced some of the best players into Chaos


oh ho ho you certainly are.
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#33 Havenn

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:59 AM

 

Clearly one did not read the entire message. Try again.

 

 

What reason other than fun do you need to explain why someone plays a game, are you kidding?

 

 

 

oh ho ho you certainly are.

 

 

I didn't mean me =P


Edited by Havenn, 10 November 2015 - 11:00 AM.

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#34 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:02 AM

Clearly one did not read the entire message. Try again.

Yes, I did. And answered you. 

 

Well, it has to be another reason outside >being successful< and >having fun< with your friends? For me and MOST people that's enough. 

 

"What it is PvM reason outside fun, drops and time sink?"

 

I mean, you just took out all the good parts of something and ask what's the other reason? That really makes no sense.


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 11:02 AM.

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#35 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:02 AM

 

 
 

 

What reason other than fun do you need to explain why someone plays a game, are you kidding?

 

 

 
 

 

I didn't mean me =P

 

 

This isn't about RO in general, but WoE.

 

I am not referring to the people who "currently" play WoE, they clearly play it for reasons a or b, but I am asking about the "what else".

 

No offense intended, but I simply replied to the fact that he did not read that I already mentioned fun.

 

 

Yes, I did. And answered you. 

 

Well, it has to be another reason outside >being successful< and >having fun< with your friends? For me and MOST people that's enough. 

 

"What it is PvM reason outside fun, drops and time sink?"

 

I mean, you just took out all the good parts of something and ask what's the other reason? That really makes no sense.

 

No, what I meant was I already stated fun in the current reasons to play, you completely ignored that and then answered people play it for fun. I am aware of that and am branching out to the other "what" answers.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 10 November 2015 - 11:04 AM.

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#36 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:04 AM

Ygg introduced some of the best players into Chaos

Exactly, maybe there's some really good WoE players/guilds around that don't play here because they won't stand a chance in the actual scenario.

 

 

This isn't about RO in general, but WoE.

 

I am not referring to the people who "currently" play WoE, they clearly play it for reasons a or b, but I am asking about the "what else".

 

No offense intended, but I simply replied to the fact that he did not read that I already mentioned fun.

 

 

No, what I meant was I already stated fun in the current reasons to play, you completely ignored that and then answered people play it for fun. I am aware of that and am branching out to the other "what" answers.

 

 

Well, there isn't "What Else". I really don't know what answers you're looking for. 

I completely ignored because it's dumb to remove all the good factors of something and asking what are the other good factors just to try to discredit something.


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 11:08 AM.

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#37 RichieDagger

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:05 AM

Turn Thor into a ladder server. 1000% EXP and drops; wipe everything twice a year.


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#38 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:10 AM

Exactly, maybe there's some really good WoE players/guilds around that don't play here because they won't stand a chance in the actual scenario.

 

 
 

 

Well, there isn't "What Else". I really don't know what answers you're looking for. 

I completely ignored because it's dumb to remove all the good factors of something and asking what are the other good factors just to try to discredit something.

 

It's simple, clearly options A and B are the reasons people currently play WoE, which leaves to the needing of the "What else" to gain more. What I am referring to in the case is the lack of "personal incentive" that comes with almost every other PVP situation in every other game aside from this one.


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#39 Havenn

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:11 AM

Exactly, maybe there's some really good WoE players/guilds around that don't play here because they won't stand a chance in the actual scenario.

 

I certainly would not have learned as much about the game jumping into Chaos. I agree with your thoughts on this entirely, new servers are pretty fun and they definitely do bring in new blood. Yes, they bring in lots of old toxic blood trying to farm it all right away but at least it's a level playing field minus skills/knowledge. 

 

My only fear is that, at this time, we barely have enough staff to handle what we have. This might just turn into a neglected server, or cause issues for the current ones. If it didn't, then yea I would see this as a good thing to do.

 

No offense to anyone on Thor, but creating a brand new server off of that would have been the way to go. It's kinda weird to have a server looming with +15 KvMs....that's definitely not going to bring in anyone new.

 

Not sure what the right decision is, but i appreciate you thinking of something to try to help


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#40 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:13 AM

It's simple, clearly options A and B are the reasons people currently play WoE, which leaves to the needing of the "What else" to gain more. What I am referring to in the case is the lack of "personal incentive" that comes with almost every other PVP situation in every other game aside from this one.

So what are the 'personal incentives' in other games outside from "Being Successful" and "Fun". I'm really curious about that. Also, let's be clear we're talking about >GvG< here, which is something really different than PvP.

 

 

Turn Thor into a ladder server. 1000% EXP and drops; wipe everything twice a year.

Welp, I wouldn't say 1000% but creating a server which is closer to actual competitive games like MOBAs/FPS would be truly amazing. If we could get a PvM/WoE ranking and after x Season ranked people got rewards. 


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 11:23 AM.

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#41 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:22 AM

So what are the 'personal incentives' in other games outside from "Being Successful" and "Fun". I'm really curious about that. Also, let's be clear we're talking about >GvG< here, which is something really different than PvP.

 

So what are the 'personal incentives' in other games outside from "Being Successful" and "Fun".

 

In most PVP environments (especially with RPGs), you gain gears which are specifically for PVP. These gears are only really useful in PVP, and they usually are very powerful for the combat.

 

Usually you would gain some type of points to redeem PVP items, in which can be gained by participating in PVP activites.

 

Now RO offers PVP (well WoE) specific items; as well as, PVP items in general throughout different pointless means.

 

Now here is the kicker of it all, not only do most (but not all, I stress this part) of the WoE or PVP items not live up to the standards of what general PVP items stand for (aka being good enough to act as an equaliser for PVP environments), but you can get every single one of them without needing to do ANY sort of PVP activity... AT ALL.

 

What should have happened, is they should have incorporated Glorious items, KvM items, WoE Items etc into a particular subset of rewards gained from points earning in WoE (maybe gaining points for defending a base, breaking an emp with the party etc etc), but this was never actualised before implementing the current methods.

 

This would have added a personal incentive to attend for players who do not fit the current state of a and b and MAYBE have provided a means for new guilds to get better within a "PVP/GVG" environment over time.

 

Also, let's be clear we're talking about >GvG< here, which is something really different than PvP.

 

But it still is PVP at it's core.


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#42 Kadelia

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:28 AM

If there was like a quest system where once per week in a castle your guild owns, you falk to an npc and it increments a quest line that takes a few months, and rewards with an item that made wanderer not suck, orboosts your favorite class in some way, I'd probably woe frequently. But the rewards are either neigh unattainable and hard to share ownership on (godlikes) or not applicable to my classes. So I can see why woe only motivates a certain subset if the RO population.

Edited by Jaye, 10 November 2015 - 12:00 PM.

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#43 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:37 AM

So what are the 'personal incentives' in other games outside from "Being Successful" and "Fun".

 

In most PVP environments (especially with RPGs), you gain gears which are specifically for PVP. These gears are only really useful in PVP, and they usually are very powerful for the combat.

 

Usually you would gain some type of points to redeem PVP items, in which can be gained by participating in PVP activites.

 

Now RO offers PVP (well WoE) specific items; as well as, PVP items in general throughout different pointless means.

 

Now here is the kicker of it all, not only do most (but not all, I stress this part) of the WoE or PVP items not live up to the standards of what general PVP items stand for (aka being good enough to act as an equaliser for PVP environments), but you can get every single one of them without needing to do ANY sort of PVP activity... AT ALL.

 

What should have happened, is they should have incorporated Glorious items, KvM items, WoE Items etc into a particular subset of rewards gained from points earning in WoE (maybe gaining points for defending a base, breaking an emp with the party etc etc), but this was never actualised before implementing the current methods.

 

This would have added a personal incentive to attend for players who do not fit the current state of a and b and MAYBE have provided a means for new guilds to get better within a "PVP/GVG" environment over time.

 

Also, let's be clear we're talking about >GvG< here, which is something really different than PvP.

 

But it still is PVP at it's core.

 

First of all, please watch this video:
https://youtu.be/nvK8fua6O64
Just because it's like this in >ONE< MMORPG, it doesn't mean we GOT to do the exact same thing. They're both different games and just because it isn't WoW enough, doesn't mean it's bad.

 

Second, we got rewards, unlike most pservers that got WoEs just for the e-peens boost and forum flamewars we got the gods which are not only REALLY good but also REALLY valuable.

 

 

.This would have added a personal incentive to attend for players who do not fit the current state of a and b and MAYBE have provided a means for new guilds to get better within a "PVP/GVG" environment over time.

 

Not at all, people still wouldn't stand a chance against active guilds so only the bigger guilds would get the rewards, that said, we would still be in point 0.

 

 but you can get every single one of them without needing to do ANY sort of PVP activity... AT ALL.

 

Uh, because since this wasn't done since the beggining people already got advantage over new guilds and new guilds only option to get PvP items is from PvM, if you remove it, you'd increase even more the gap between big guilds and new guilds.


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#44 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:44 AM

First of all, please watch this video:
https://youtu.be/nvK8fua6O64
Just because it's like this in >ONE< MMORPG, it doesn't mean we GOT to do the exact same thing. They're both different games and just because it isn't WoW enough, doesn't mean it's bad.

 

Second, we got rewards, unlike most pservers that got WoEs just for the e-peens boost and forum flamewars we got the gods which are not only REALLY good but also REALLY valuable.

 

 

.This would have added a personal incentive to attend for players who do not fit the current state of a and b and MAYBE have provided a means for new guilds to get better within a "PVP/GVG" environment over time.

 

Not at all, people still wouldn't stand a chance against active guilds so only the bigger guilds would get the rewards, that said, we would still be in point 0.

 

 but you can get every single one of them without needing to do ANY sort of PVP activity... AT ALL.

 

Uh, because since this wasn't done since the beggining people already got advantage over new guilds and new guilds only option to get PvP items is from PvM, if you remove it, you'd increase even more the gap between big guilds and new guilds.

 

Just because it's like this in >ONE< MMORPG, it doesn't mean we GOT to do the exact same thing. They're both different games and just because it isn't WoW enough, doesn't mean it's bad.

 

Not just one.

 

Second, we got rewards, unlike most pservers that got WoEs just for the e-peens boost and forum flamewars we got the gods which are not only REALLY good but also REALLY valuable.

 

What rewards?

 

Not at all, people still wouldn't stand a chance against active guilds so only the bigger guilds would get the rewards, that said, we would still be in point 0.

 

You do know the concept of gaining points wouldn't JUST determine capturing a castle, but for multiple things. And just because certain guilds could get to the objective faster, doesn't change the fact that eventually the lower geared guilds would eventually reach the threshold.

 

Uh, because since this wasn't done since the beggining people already got advantage over new guilds and new guilds only option to get PvP items is from PvM, if you remove it, you'd increase even more the gap between big guilds and new guilds.

 

Not if you implemented a good point system and gave people additional reasons to WoE.

 

BBL in 40mins to reply to further crud.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 10 November 2015 - 11:49 AM.

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#45 RichieDagger

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:47 AM

Maybe some kind of tier system? You'd incentivize the better equipped guilds to move up, leaving a vacuum for entry guilds to get established. You'd run into a similar situation at the top, but the curve to that point would be much more gradual.


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#46 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:55 AM

 

Not just one.

Yes, this one and all those other copies that use the exact same graphics, metagames, type of quests etc.

 

What rewards?

God Items and OCAs

 

You do know the concept of gaining points wouldn't JUST determine capturing a castle, but for multiple things. And just because certain guilds could get to the objective faster, doesn't change the fact that eventually the lower geared guilds would eventually reach the threshold.

 

Yes just like Kill Counts, Emp breaks, Support Skills and everything else eaMod had already done for pservers? And really? Do you realize ONE fully-geared character can wipe a whole regular geared guild right? They would get to objective faster and would increase even more the gap existing between them, making nearly impossible to lower geared guilds getting anything.

 

Not if you implemented a good point system and gave people additional reasons to WoE.

 

Do you realize people don't play WoE because they CAN'T compete against known guilds right? You can add 999 another motivations, small guilds will still struggle trying to get a random lucky last minute break while bigger guilds wipe all realms in the last minutes and get 3~5 forts each. 

 

 

 

Maybe some kind of tier system? You'd incentivize the better equipped guilds to move up, leaving a vacuum for entry guilds to get established. You'd run into a similar situation at the top, but the curve to that point would be much more gradual.

 

Yep, that'd be amazing!  I mean, WoE is the only competitive feature we got in RO, we could at least update to something like the actual competitive games scenario.


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 12:08 PM.

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#47 Necrohealiac

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:10 PM

we already have two renewal servers, and staff can barely mange those 2 + classic. we are not going to get a third one.


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#48 RichieDagger

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:13 PM

Yep, that'd be amazing!  I mean, WoE is the only competitive feature we got in RO, we could at least update to something like the actual competitive games scenario.

 

Bottom line, there are quite a few options better than a new server that could be done to expand and polish the GvG and PvP elements of RO. However, the piss-poor coding and kRO red tape also makes them the lest feasible options.


Edited by RichieDagger, 10 November 2015 - 12:14 PM.

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#49 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:20 PM

 

we already have two renewal servers, and staff can barely mange those 2 + classic. we are not going to get a third one.

 

 

Again, I will quote this for you:

 

 

"I know the staff is busy with Thor right now, but since the Russian server will end this month, that'd be a nice workaround for all the newplayers that will arrive here. I also know that this might be impossible right now, but I'd just like to discuss the avaiability of this idea."

 

We're here to share and discuss ideas and hopefully we get something useful out of this discussion that could help the staff to solve the actual WoE problem.

 

I'm going to try to be respectful here Necro. I know you're not into WoE , but please, stop acting like you're from staff and trying to "close" the thread. You're not from the staff neither you are into WoE so this won't affect you. Please just stahp.

 

 

 


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 12:21 PM.

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#50 Necrohealiac

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:27 PM

again i'm going to state that you are failing to understand my message. the point is that there is barely enough staff to support the servers we currently have. thor isn't a temporary server. they're not "busy" with it any more than they are with any of the other servers. compensation has been awarded, almost all the character restorations have been handled. where are all the staff resources for your new server going to come from? WP isn't exactly hiring an entire new gm team.
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