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A Post Regarding Client Edits and Third Party Programs


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#26 meli

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:20 PM

brOda read my pm.

 


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#27 Calza

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:52 PM

 
 

it sure does look like you're telling them to make snap decisions here.

the ban is on sharing client edits or how to actually edit your client. you can ask about what's allowed vs. what's not to your heart's content. if you're looking for an actual sanctioned client with approved edits from WP, that is what Camp needs to meet with people to discuss.

and if you need it RITE NAO, you could reach out to the people who have these clients individually.

 

Selectively quoting me out of context just makes you look like a bit of a Great Citizen to be honest.

 

From my first post in this thread, I've been questioning why it can't be discussed, NOT why warp portal haven't offered the modification themselves. 


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#28 Campitor

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:59 PM

Selectively quoting me out of context just makes you look like a bit of a Great Citizen to be honest.

 

From my first post in this thread, I've been questioning why it can't be discussed, NOT why warp portal haven't offered the modification themselves. 

You know better than to do that. Don't by pass the filters with images.


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#29 Hideasu

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 02:19 PM

> too many ppl cheating and editing -_- ?
> well make it ok so now everyone can do it !
RIP IRo


Edited by Hideasu, 10 November 2015 - 02:20 PM.

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#30 Calza

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 02:24 PM

You know better than to do that. Don't by pass the filters with images.

 

I do, I do  :heh:

 

Apologies for wasting your time on it though.


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#31 KyrieDielle

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 02:26 PM

When will you prohibit the use of all QUALITY OF LIFE programs? Lets all get back to the stone age when everybody plays fair, and those who don't gets suspended.


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#32 needmorezleep

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 02:46 PM

 

When will you prohibit the use of all QUALITY OF LIFE programs? Lets all get back to the stone age when everybody plays fair, and those who don't gets suspended.

 

the same day kro puts them in the native client

besides you can just go play the other english official which does not allow any of these if playing clean bothers you so much


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#33 KyrieDielle

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 03:18 PM

the same day kro puts them in the native client

besides you can just go play the other english official which does not allow any of these if playing clean bothers you so much

 

other ENGLISH OFFICIAL?! You mean EU? That server is dying faster than iRO. That server is clean because NO ONE will use QUALITY OF LIFE PROGRAMS because NO ONE is there to use one. get it?


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#34 needmorezleep

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 03:22 PM

it still has a normal population quite possibly equal to chaos thou they just want to milk money from their players like every other publisher out there 


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#35 Synapsse

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 03:57 PM

The following are the client edits and third party programs that the GM team is currently not suspending for. What this means if they are not going to ban you if you use it. We do not recommend that you ever edit your client. This can result in game client instability and we cannot assist you if you do so. You may need to reinstall the game to make the client playable again.

 

  • Graphical Edits that help with the display of skill outlines
Ex Gutter Lines, Over Lays that show skill splash Zone
  • Graphical Edits that are purely Cosmetic in Nature
Ex. Big Card Edits (Please note replacing monster or player sprites can be viewed as giving players an unfair advantage and may result in account suspension)
  • Informational Client Edits that help with tracking buff timers
  • Creation of Mini Map files for maps that do not have them.
  • Certain Edits that help with client performance

Ex. Remove Shake, Remove Hallucination

  • Removal of Camera Restrictions on Maps
  • Use of Keyboard/AHK Macros that Do Not Automate Play

 

If something is missing from this list then it means that it is not allowed. Do not push the grey areas on client edits as we will suspend without warning.

 

If you believe that something should be allowed please let Oda know and we will consider it.

 

Do not share or discuss how to edit clients on the forums. If we see this being discussed we will remove the posts/thread as appropriate.

I think  most of these are fine. Maps IMO are fine. This is useful for dungeon maps i.E maze-ish maps(nidhoggur lol), woe, most usually have a flag point of interest or something along those lines...which I also think is fine. By now who has played woe should know them by now..not a big deal. Maps exist for nearly all of these, they just aren't shown in game. Even Endless Tower has a map! As if that's really useful! 

 

 

Shaking and Hallucination are just asking to give you a headache. It's pretty bothersome. So I think those are reasonable as well. buff timer edits as far as I know come directly from RCX(as well as gutterlines, chatscope, colored tiles for skills, etc). I don't think there's a way to add them(buff timers) into a classic client otherwise. 

 

There is also a party window locker to emulate the renewal client's Party window Lock feature, that I believe has gone unmentioned and should be allowed on Classic, This enables people to click names on party window/friend's list as a supportive class without trying to PM them and breaking your battlemode repeatedly. Pretty helpful in tight spaces. 

 

Something I think that is NOT okay that was shown in a capture earlier in this thread, showing text above a target for dispel casts( as well as status effects like freeze, sleep, stone curse/what tarot cards are doing, etc) Things that are not listed but I'm sure someone will mention. Falls under the not allowed list. Player/monster sprite edits. etc. Nodelay(as it's called) autopot..etc. These are like performance enhancing drugs. Get outta here with that. Highly unnecessary. No thank you. Also zoom hack is completely worthless and I'll never understand it's use. You can't click or see further than the original client allows to do so. 

 

Seems fair to me. Now people can stop asking questions and stop doing stupid things!

 

 

@Kyrie none of these are gamebreaking by any means(minus those not allowed, obviously.) It's just clear that many players use some sort of light edit like those listed above to make the game more or less interesting to them. RCX has been in use for at least 6-7 years now. never seen a problem with it and again, most of the above listed comes from that alone. I think these are pretty reasonable and fair "changes"  Especially considering, outside of maybe gutterlines, most of the information is common knowledge.

 

This isn't allowing cheats. it's covering a gray area of things that don't really change the game or effect a players overall effective performance, just what it looks like and how it may run on your PC. (RCX causes problems with my game. i don't use it. Simple as that). To me the only useful features are the  locked party window on Classic(already a feature in the renewal game client)  and no shake effect(fury, meteor storm, heaven's drive, some renewal skills I'm currently not sure of the names are that probably follow these up, etc)


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#36 Xellie

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 06:39 PM

Maps IMO are fine. This is useful for dungeon maps i.E maze-ish maps(nidhoggur lol), woe, most usually have a flag point of interest or something along those lines...which I also think is fine.

 

 

 

it's covering a gray area of things that don't really change the game or effect a players overall effective performance

 

Granted it's something you can learn with a few years, but then you have to ask why they weren't mapped in the first place? Even 10 years later or whatever I can't memorize all the WoE 2 flags - I don't think anyone does unless they're particularly interested in defending a fort, so the difference between players that do and don't have it is a difference.... else they wouldn't use it.

 

And yes, I know we all open up a website to view the flags. The point is that's alt tabbing that can get you killed, Rimi.


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#37 Synapsse

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 07:38 PM

umm who said anything about alt tabbing or using a website? you simply use each flag and then know where it takes you? having a map in game would be really helpful considering new or unfamiliar players woeing for the first time may not know them. it's more of a guideline. not something to live by. most show a flag point too, or color coordinate areas. but thats unnecessary. knowing castle lay out will tell you the flag points anyway


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#38 Xellie

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 07:42 PM

umm who said anything about alt tabbing or using a website? you simply use each flag and then know where it takes you? having a map in game would be really helpful considering new or unfamiliar players woeing for the first time may not know them. it's more of a guideline. not something to live by. most show a flag point too, or color coordinate areas. but thats unnecessary. knowing castle lay out will tell you the flag points anyway

 

And therein lays the point. You're not going to convince me that you just go through every flag until you find the one you want when defending lol

 

It IS an advantage.

one that everyone should have... or not.
 

( as well as status effects like freeze, sleep, stone curse/what tarot cards are doing, etc)

 

 

???? Have you tried playing with effects on ever? If you toggle effects you can see what Tarot cards are being casted... if you play the game long enough you'll know them just by the picture (kinda like flags) I don't even really understand WHAT you're getting at.


Edited by Xellie, 10 November 2015 - 08:18 PM.

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#39 Synapsse

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 08:55 PM

I'm saying the card itself says on the card in text what exactly it does rather than just the picture of the card and the name of the actual card, lol.. this also shows with effects off. I've seen it before that's why I mentioned it. just makes following something up like "DISPELL" written in huge letters over someone's head showing up with effects off is going to give an advantage in overall targetting..how is this different from your map argument?

 

Every castle is the same, for the most part in terms of what flag is where. i.e flags 6-1/6-2 are typically directly in front of the third barricade, and so on throughout the castle to some degree. 4 and 5 are in front of and behind second barricades, typically.  3 puts you near the first, flag 2 is toward the front of the castle, etc.  flags are easy to guess where they go in a general sense and you can figure out  which ones to use and not to use via trial and error every so often


Edited by Synapsse, 10 November 2015 - 08:58 PM.

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#40 Xellie

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 09:18 PM

on one hand you're saying it just displays information you already know

 

and then you're saying that information you already know shouldn't be displayed.

 

 

 

 

...I would argue they do need a better min-effect client but that's aside the point!

I actually like playing vanilla

 

or you could just learn about the skill tarot card

http://irowiki.org/c...ot_card_of_fate

 

or learn the flags

http://irowiki.org/~...woe/rachel2.htm

 

Same argument, different crapola

 

 


Edited by Xellie, 10 November 2015 - 09:25 PM.

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#41 stoenr

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 09:48 PM

im lazy.. can anyone send me all the new allowed edits?
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#42 Synapsse

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:29 PM

One is a mini map showing the layout of a castle. Something you don't really NEED but I'd say this falls under quality of life more so than these other effects.

 

The other is in similar ways to dispel/stun/freeze/sleep being in giant letters, telling you what's happening to the target with effects off.

Sure you know what the card does, but it doesn't display with effects off.  Pretty convenient to know what card you're getting, don't you think? You can't see that a target is truly dispelled either with effects off. I think this is You can still see stunned/frozen targets when they are stunned and frozen with effects off, but it doesn't need to be shown in giant letters over their sprite. I just find it highly unnecessary and a bit overkill.


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#43 gorgoroth1

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:03 AM


Use of Keyboard/AHK Macros that Do Not Automate Play

 

If i'm macro/ahk Acolyte classes to auto Aqua Benedicta creating Holy Water in middle of Mora town.

- I might be alt+tab or etc, if players/GM is checking on me, what is the time given for me to respond? 5 mins - 10 mins - 1 hours?

- And if i fail to respond, what is the punishment? 3-7 days ban or permanent? thanks.


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#44 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 01:46 AM

If i'm macro/ahk Acolyte classes to auto Aqua Benedicta creating Holy Water in middle of Mora town.

- I might be alt+tab or etc, if players/GM is checking on me, what is the time given for me to respond? 5 mins - 10 mins - 1 hours?

- And if i fail to respond, what is the punishment? 3-7 days ban or permanent? thanks.

 

If you can alt tab out of the game and it keeps running a repeat task, it's illegal. Even if you're away from the game for only a few seconds. If it's performing some kind of activity without you being in control, it's no different than botting.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 11 November 2015 - 01:48 AM.

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#45 Xellie

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 02:12 AM

One is a mini map showing the layout of a castle. Something you don't really NEED but I'd say this falls under quality of life more so than these other effects.

 

The other is in similar ways to dispel/stun/freeze/sleep being in giant letters, telling you what's happening to the target with effects off.

Sure you know what the card does, but it doesn't display with effects off.  Pretty convenient to know what card you're getting, don't you think? You can't see that a target is truly dispelled either with effects off. I think this is You can still see stunned/frozen targets when they are stunned and frozen with effects off, but it doesn't need to be shown in giant letters over their sprite. I just find it highly unnecessary and a bit overkill.

 

So.... one shows information that was omitted from the game

and one shows information that you're meant to see but is omitted from the game unless you toggle /effect

 

I really don't understand why you're nitpicking it so hard. I don't think either should be used unless the edits come from WP so that they are available to all - but you're basically picking and choosing what you think should be ok and what shouldn't with no real criteria to it.

 

You can't be like... "well they omitted tarot/dispell etc from having effects turned off and it's supposed to be that way".... then on the same post say "Well they omitted minimaps but we should be allowed to fix that" - maybe they were omitted for a reason too.
 


Edited by Xellie, 11 November 2015 - 02:14 AM.

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#46 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 02:20 AM

One thing is the littles ZZZ above a character head when he's affected by sleep, wich can easily not be seen when in a big group of ppl(same with some other status like stun for example). And then you change that to a f*ing giant text above the characters head wich even blind ppl can see :|


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#47 Kebtung

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 02:21 AM

See all the headaches when you make exceptions to this kind of things.


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#48 Xellie

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 02:28 AM

One thing is the littles ZZZ above a character head when he's affected by sleep, wich can easily not be seen when in a big group of ppl(same with some other status like stun for example). And then you change that to a f*ing giant text above the characters head wich even blind ppl can see :|

 

I wasn't actually even referring to those status changes but since it is a topic and  thing I was thinking about it... its ugly as heck but why is it a problem if someone uses a client you don't find aesthetically pleasing personally?

 

It's much like losing your cursor and using that as a reason to change the colour, sometimes, in some situations status can be hard to see. There's plenty of arguments FOR changing it in that regard... what harm does it actually do? Some people have different colour vision and may actually need to make such enhancements in order to play something like a priest.

 

Arguments against changing it are like.... it's ugly and not ROlike. Ok you know what i agree.... but I'm not the one that has to look at it. It's a bit easier to notice if someone got statused? Maybe. but that could be the difference between standing on a map that is mostly white/blue or one that is yellow.

 

Even if they get the giant red ZZZ in a bunch of people, does that make it easier to tell who it is or to target them? Nope. It actually doesn't.

 

edit: couple of points

 

greyworld makes all this crap easier to see anyway

 

if we're talking about improving the game, then it should be discussed much deeper. I actually think the lack of being able to see anything with effects off is a huge issue. Good game gameplay wouldn't leave you trying to guess what killed you unless you drop your fps to 2 because some jerks are basically using programs to spam packets and effects to the server too fast.

In a good game you would always know what killed you and have a way to be able to address that. Renewal actually has the battle log for this.

Whilst I think those client edits are pretty dire, I don't entirely disagree with the spirit of them

 


Edited by Xellie, 11 November 2015 - 02:38 AM.

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#49 Lambor

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 05:25 AM

  • Graphical Edits that are purely Cosmetic in Nature

Nude kafra time, boys!


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#50 kingarthur6687

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 05:34 AM

Please no, that had to be the most SoBadItsHorrible thing ever. =V
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