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A Post Regarding Client Edits and Third Party Programs


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#51 Mulder1

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 06:11 AM

Is there a cosmetic feature that will transform mah warlock into a gundam?? Strike Freedom or Exia perhaps?

 

Thank you.


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#52 fuyukikun

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 08:30 AM

"are we playing the same game?" - me looking at heavily edited RO client on woe vids. i just wonder if it is legal, why dont the client be updated and put those edits on video configuration option?
"are we playing the same game?" - me looking at heavily edited RO client on woe vids. i just wonder if it is legal, why dont the client be updated and put those edits on video configuration option?
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#53 4782131221082418730

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 08:44 AM

Poor management bad decisions. We have no faith in GM/CM.


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#54 ClickClickClick

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 08:59 AM

What about making it so one can see what an item is without identifying it?

 

I believe it used to fall under quality of life edits that were allowed, can we now assume that falls under harmless cosmetic edits, or client performance?


Edited by ClickClickClick, 11 November 2015 - 09:03 AM.

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#55 WiseFabre

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 09:24 AM

Poor management bad decisions. We have no faith in GM/CM.

 

The non-cheaters would feel that way.  These players followed the original rules of don't edit.  But the cheating players who finally convinced the GMs/CMs to finally allow various client hacks as being legal feel the happy about that.  The CMs don't seem to have learned from life's lessons that tolerance of crime only begets more crime in the future.  Is their decision made as a way to get those using hacked clients to stop their negative whining and indirect threats to convince others that the game is not worth playing unless hacks are used?   That's a terrible logic for players to say they won't play a game unless they use hacked clients.

 

For the CMs to say that client hacks are legal to use but limit the knowledge of hacks to only those who were already using them is also perpetuating the unfairness upon those who do not.  If it is legitimate, then discussion should be allowed.  Furthermore, if it is legitimate, then WP should provide it.  If WP doesn't provide it, then it wasn't all that legit to begin with but was merely WP just giving permission to the cheaters and botters to use such tools so that they would shut up and stop complaining.

 

There's plenty of honest players who don't use hacked clients.  But perhaps the CMs don't hear these players complain.  The silent majority ends up the loser when the CMs support client hacks.  It's yet more stuff for the silent majority to be unhappy about and quit the game when they find out.  And here's the catch.  By forbidding future talk about where to get hacks, the CMs think that type of censorship will prevent or reduce the unhappiness problem with the silent majority?  No!  It will not.  It will only increase the amount of disgust among many parts of that audience and make them quit all the sooner or even refuse to recommend the game to their friends to come and try the game out. 

 

Tolerating crime has never worked out in the real world (except for the criminals and those who benefit from unprosecuted crime that has been "legitimized").  I don't see why that same lesson is not applicable here where many players have the same sensibility versus whether or not they continue playing a game where hacks are legitimized for a subset of the players but not allowed for the other players because "where to download the hack info" is not provided.  For CMs/GMs to provide such type of favoritism to those who would use such hacks in the first place is disappointing.


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#56 ZeroTigress

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 09:30 AM

If the CMs/GMs are going to be so nitpicky about what's allowed and what's not, then yes, they should just provide an official add-on instead of letting players do it themselves and get banned for it. It would put an end to all this confusion about the rules once and for all. This debate has been going on for years, it's about time the CMs/GMs finally man up and put their foot down instead of being wishy-washy like they always have.
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#57 Haro

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 11:35 AM

If the CMs/GMs are going to be so nitpicky about what's allowed and what's not, then yes, they should just provide an official add-on instead of letting players do it themselves and get banned for it. It would put an end to all this confusion about the rules once and for all. This debate has been going on for years, it's about time the CMs/GMs finally man up and put their foot down instead of being wishy-washy like they always have.

Aren't the GMs working on a client add-on?


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#58 ZeroTigress

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 11:54 AM

Aren't the GMs working on a client add-on?


If they are, then why haven't they said as much in this thread to clarify confusion?
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#59 Xellie

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:51 PM

The non-cheaters would feel that way.  These players followed the original rules of don't edit.  But the cheating players who finally convinced the GMs/CMs to finally allow various client hacks as being legal feel the happy about that.  The CMs don't seem to have learned from life's lessons that tolerance of crime only begets more crime in the future.  Is their decision made as a way to get those using hacked clients to stop their negative whining and indirect threats to convince others that the game is not worth playing unless hacks are used?   That's a terrible logic for players to say they won't play a game unless they use hacked clients.

 

For the CMs to say that client hacks are legal to use but limit the knowledge of hacks to only those who were already using them is also perpetuating the unfairness upon those who do not.  If it is legitimate, then discussion should be allowed.  Furthermore, if it is legitimate, then WP should provide it.  If WP doesn't provide it, then it wasn't all that legit to begin with but was merely WP just giving permission to the cheaters and botters to use such tools so that they would shut up and stop complaining.

 

There's plenty of honest players who don't use hacked clients.  But perhaps the CMs don't hear these players complain.  The silent majority ends up the loser when the CMs support client hacks.  It's yet more stuff for the silent majority to be unhappy about and quit the game when they find out.  And here's the catch.  By forbidding future talk about where to get hacks, the CMs think that type of censorship will prevent or reduce the unhappiness problem with the silent majority?  No!  It will not.  It will only increase the amount of disgust among many parts of that audience and make them quit all the sooner or even refuse to recommend the game to their friends to come and try the game out. 

 

Tolerating crime has never worked out in the real world (except for the criminals and those who benefit from unprosecuted crime that has been "legitimized").  I don't see why that same lesson is not applicable here where many players have the same sensibility versus whether or not they continue playing a game where hacks are legitimized for a subset of the players but not allowed for the other players because "where to download the hack info" is not provided.  For CMs/GMs to provide such type of favoritism to those who would use such hacks in the first place is disappointing.

 

I'm a non cheater. I'm not going to sit here and justify it to prove it to you past saying that my guild is very hardline against cheating. They don't like it... they think it changes the game, they think it's "scrubby" (yes, elitism), they think it encourages bad/sloppy play, they think its not fair that half the players have access to a thing that others do not.

 

But you do have to look at some of these edits in another way. Some of them are actually harmless, close to nothing but skin changes. Many modern games have such things, RO has been left behind in this regard. I'm referring to auras, cast circles and palette swaps.

 

However, some of the other stuff, the so called "Quality of Life" improvements... This term "QoL" is a term that encompasses everything from bug fixes, to advantages. Big card, grey world, etc. These are things that people always have done/always have been able to do and always will do and let me tell you there is nothing that can be done, other than to punish those who make video/stream... that is... the people who publicize this server's very existence.

 

So the best question to ask is why are they doing this? it's an interesting topic that delves into some of the flaws of the game compared to others and what people expect from games nowadays. I think Classic is a great example, where many people mod their clients/use RCX just to gain access to Renewal features such as party window locking or buff timers.

 

Perhaps there needs to be a push from the community for these kinds of features to be official. If enough people stand up and shout and say "there's X problem with the game and Y 'cheat' fixes it, we need it!" they will listen.

 

I do not agree with them allowing this behaviour tho, in terms of encouraging players searching other sites and finding other... less than good things. I can't stress enough how there needs to be an official host of these edits to discourage the googling that uncovers bad things. It's not fair that only people with technical knowhow or pserver contacts have the access to the changes. In this regard it becomes an "advantage" no matter how small.

 

There's plenty of honest players who don't use hacked clients.  But perhaps the CMs don't hear these players complain.  The silent majority ends up the loser when the CMs support client hacks.  It's yet more stuff for the silent majority to be unhappy about and quit the game when they find out.

 

 

Stop being so silent. I've felt like I've battled against these stuff publicly alone for a long long time. Perhaps if more honest players spoke up, then the rest of the honest players would feel supported by the rest of the community. There's a lot of you out there, I know this well from my PM box.

 

So please start talking. But don't assume that everyone in favour of some of these changes is a cheater.


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#60 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 02:00 PM

Unless officially offered to the community, the giant status ailments edits must not be allowed.
Not only when playing with effects off that it gives an advantage of knowing whats happening. Even with effects on, but with all the messed screen by other skills(SG,LoV,etc) you can still know that ppl got X or Y debuff.

Well, if the main problem is just seeing them while effects are off, just grf edit them with the same sprite of the game, so you can see it with effects disabled. Changing color? Ok. But dont make that stupid giant text. Its not necessary. Not sayin that as screen polution, but it makes it too damn obvious to know when 1 or 5 ppl are disabled when you cant even see them in the middle of everyone.
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#61 Synapsse

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 03:54 PM

Unless officially offered to the community, the giant status ailments edits must not be allowed.
Not only when playing with effects off that it gives an advantage of knowing whats happening. Even with effects on, but with all the messed screen by other skills(SG,LoV,etc) you can still know that ppl got X or Y debuff.

Well, if the main problem is just seeing them while effects are off, just grf edit them with the same sprite of the game, so you can see it with effects disabled. Changing color? Ok. But dont make that stupid giant text. Its not necessary. Not sayin that as screen polution, but it makes it too damn obvious to know when 1 or 5 ppl are disabled when you cant even see them in the middle of everyone.

this is basically what i was getting at. It's a little ridiculous and unnecessary. if you want effects, simplify effects like SG where you can't see anything or just use rohook/rcx or something personally.  don't need to have some giant word for sleep/stun/freeze etc


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#62 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 03:59 PM

Unless officially offered to the community, the giant status ailments edits must not be allowed.

 

this is basically what i was getting at. It's a little ridiculous and unnecessary. if you want effects, simplify effects like SG where you can't see anything or just use rohook/rcx or something personally.  don't need to have some giant word for sleep/stun/freeze etc

 

Yeah it's totally unnecessary to have that kind of stuff given to the community at large. Then you'd lose the advantage! Gotta retain the one thing keeping you afloat and competitive right <>?


Edited by VModCinnamon, 21 November 2015 - 01:18 AM.
Removed.

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#63 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:09 PM

Randomly google'ed images (omited servers/chars name just in case)

Normal client
fM4kkRW.jpg

Modded status ailment grf
q9hRwXM.jpg?1

I dont think i need to further explain why this should not be allowed right?(unless iRO team disponibilizes this for every single person)

 


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#64 Xellie

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:11 PM

Obviously, but can you prevent it?

 

Or will this remain in the hands of the chosen few forever?


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#65 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:14 PM

no one can prevent, thats the saddest part. but i dont see a reason to allow it w/o giving this to the ppl (wich is what gonna happen and we all know that)


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#66 Xellie

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:16 PM

no one can prevent, thats the saddest part. but i dont see a reason to allow it w/o giving this to the ppl (wich is what gonna happen and we all know that)

 

Well that's the big question

 

why do they do it

 

and is it REALLY that big of a deal? Frozen for example, stands out quite a lot without the edit. I mean think about it hard, what's the big difference and should such information actually be so difficult to see?


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#67 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:19 PM

how much seconds did you spend to see how many ppl have status ailments or not in the 1st and 2nd pic. This seconds/miliseconds of faster reckoning of whats happening around you can change your decisions on a fight greatly.
So the player with this edit clearly has an advantage. 
And you know how ppl are either against changing their clients or just lazy to search for these kind of stuff, therefore staying handicaped against those who use this.


Edited by Ashuckel, 11 November 2015 - 04:24 PM.

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#68 Xellie

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:26 PM

There's a lot less statused people in that picture, so that's an unfair question from the offshoot.

 

If you don't think RO needs to be modernized a bit that is fine, but it's not all just about seeing the enemy. If I want to know they are stunned, I can turn on sound effects, or just look. The large text doesn't make them easier to target in those mobs and .... some of it is about also being able to see your own statuses.

 

 If I'm stacked in a mob of people, I kind of want to be able to see if I'm sleeping or frozen, not just generically unable to move. It's a frustration of RO that probably should be addressed. I would personally do it via status icons on the side or in the party window. But the reason people make these edits is because RO is in the stone age.

 

Don't get me wrong, I play with out and enjoy the overall look of RO as it is, but If people want their RO to look like some completely other game, so long as it actually plays the same... it doesn't bother me that much as long as we all have the option.

 

Now if you're gonna say its ugly as hell, I'll agree. If you're gonna say it just makes it easier to see thinks at a glance streamlining gameplay, I'm going to ask... is that REALLY so bad? And if you're gonna say RO doesn't need changes to make it more appealing to modern audiences I will disagree vehemently.

 

If what you're getting at is that everyone should have access to the same stuff, then I agree whole heartedly.


Edited by Xellie, 11 November 2015 - 04:27 PM.

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#69 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:33 PM

If what you're getting at is that everyone should have access to the same stuff, then I agree whole heartedly.

Now you got my point.

If the actual game makes those changes to make it easier to see, its fine, i'd love it. Not with a mod that, like already said, stays in the hands of few chosen.


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#70 Xellie

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:34 PM

Now you got my point.

If the actual game makes those changes to make it easier to see, its fine, i'd love it. Not with a mod that, like already said, stays in the hands of few chosen.

 

Then we're on the same side :P They need everything to be accessible to everyone, or nothing at all.

 

Greyworld provides similar advantages.... as do minimaps.


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#71 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:45 PM

I dont find greyworld that big of an issue, but minimap i do, at least for woe castles.


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#72 Xellie

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:49 PM

Well think about how much easier it makes seeing stuff in general, AoEs, status etc. maybe not to the same extent, but the same benefit is present


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#73 3452140212150117003

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 06:48 PM

I dont find greyworld that big of an issue, but minimap i do, at least for woe castles.

one question regarding greyworld. It absolutely remove everything from map and left only the gray tile. That make me thinking, on certain map, you will need to rotate the screen to actually see people hiding in certain spot. For example, Mid Payon castle. On the entrance, there is a big ass tree that block the view of whoever hiding behind it. But if you have greyworld, then you should be able to see pass that tree. 

 

Is this kind of advantage is really allow? It will make a whole difference since you dont need to rotate your screen anymore to get clearer view.


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#74 ChakriGuard

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 06:52 PM

Obviously, but can you prevent it?

 

Or will this remain in the hands of the chosen few forever?

 

You cant stop it but the cheaters cant post his -_- to show his noob proness either  :heh:


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#75 Nirvanna21

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 07:00 PM

I don't use edits at all, but if there were two I would love to be officially made it would be bigger cards (just slightly bigger as to notice them over junk) and increased zoom (to feel less packed in tight/small maps).

 

With that said, using none at all is still fine, but they would be neat additions.


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