144 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

asfasdasd

 

crit sinx damage is stupid and needs to be controlled, sorry

 

secondly that applies to EMPERIUMS think about it.

 

third, try reducing the duration of CP to 1/4

[rojoky113]

Yeah I mentioned break times changing.

My vote is put the melee reduction that should be there back in if possible, don't mess with the rest especially if all you can change is global skill reductions (for all the reasons already stated). Tone down or change any specific items or effects you think are causing problems whether that be cp, fbh, whatever.

Then get rid of the damn illegit mvp cards flooding the server.

[Xellie]

If they delete all the mvp cards that people bought innocently this server is done

[rojoky113]

Those cards should never have been there to be bought in the first place, and likely would have been way more expensive if they were as scarce and valuable as they should be. Someone somewhere is selling orc heros like every week for less than 3b now, it's a joke. Those trades should be reversed as they do now when they delete duped/genned items, and while that certainly sucks it is way way way worse to leave them all on the server when so many people are screaming about the cheating and the mvp/god saturation as reasons they are fed up, quitting, or refusing to play here. It's a cancer on the game that is killing it already.

 

Also "innocence" is a relative term because anybody who has enough wealth to trade for an mvp card knows damn well how many illegit ones there are around and that there's may not be legit if they don't know the origin, they know there's a risk. People don't get to avoid the removal of cheats or illegal items when it would benefit them. I just don't see that many players that dedicated to this game with any amount of desire to see it played legitly quitting over them finally doing what should have already been done, you'd think most would applaud it. And the more cards they would have to delete, the more ridiculously important it is for the current and future health of the server that they delete them.

 

Minis should be done too and I have a GR and a MP which are a large part of my material wealth I could lose but if it meant the server being purged of the illegit items running around everywhere that shouldn't be I'd give them both up in a heartbeat.

Edited by rojoky113, 11 December 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[Xellie]

Having seen a few people quit first hand from losing items they had for 9+ months

 

Gonna have to politely disagree.

And they were good legit players.

[rojoky113]

How many more do you think have quit, will quit, or will refuse to play in the first place because of the state of the server with all those cards. It's like refusing to chop off an infected hand saying it'd be better to die than live without, knowing it will spread and kill you anyway.

 

Frankly if they say they aren't doing anything about it I would seriously consider it, and I don't just mean that as an idle threat. Or maybe throwing up my hands and opening up my wallet just like the people who threw up their hands and went and downloaded AP/MP hack/etc. Maybe I'd have enough integrity not to but how many people wouldn't when for the price of a few lucky boxes they instead get a shiny delete-proof mvp card, and how many people who refuse to are just going to turn and walk away from playing with that total and utter BS?

 

If there are so many cards that you think the fraction of people who would quit over their deletion will be significant enough to kill the server, we might as well just pull a pRO and put them in the box so the other 50% of the server has them because they must be literally everywhere.

Edited by rojoky113, 11 December 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[Xellie]

I have a Bloody Branch party to attend.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Those cards should never have been there to be bought in the first place, and likely would have been way more expensive if they were as scarce and valuable as they should be. Someone somewhere is selling orc heros like every week for less than 3b now, it's a joke. Those trades should be reversed as they do now when they delete duped/genned items, and while that certainly sucks it is way way way worse to leave them all on the server when so many people are screaming about the cheating and the mvp/god saturation as reasons they are fed up, quitting, or refusing to play here. It's a cancer on the game that is killing it already.

 

Also "innocence" is a relative term because anybody who has enough wealth to trade for an mvp card knows damn well how many illegit ones there are around and that there's may not be legit if they don't know the origin. People don't get to avoid the removal of cheats or illegal items when it would benefit them. I just don't see that many players that dedicated to this game with any amount of desire to see it played legitly quitting over them finally doing what should have already been done, you'd think most would applaud it. And the more cards they would have to delete, the more ridiculously important it is for the current and future health of the server that they delete them.

 

Minis should be done too and I have a GR and a MP which are a large part of my material wealth I could lose but if it meant the server being purged of the illegit items running around everywhere that shouldn't be I'd give them both up in a heartbeat.

 

The impact of losing an item you bought under good faith from another player - with clean zeny and items - and having it taken away from you with no compensation or acknowledgment is quite harsh. It demotivates people having lost so much for nothing, and as has happened many times in the past, they just walk away from the game and never look back. It's like being punished for participating in the player economy, trading with a person that you aren't expected to know the history of for an item that you have know way of determining the legitimacy of, using your own hard-earned zeny and personal items with no way of getting them back if the purchased gear or card turns out to be a dupe or sourced from RMT.

 

As much as I'd like to see the server purged of these items, and believe me I'd like nothing more, they're ingrained so deep in the economy with older RMT'd items having changed hands and circulated so many times now, and with the GMs having done nothing about it, a lot of innocent players (and I mean a lot - pretty much anyone having played this game for over a year) are going to end up losing things they throught were legitimate - that they bought and played with under that assumption - and if / when those items are suddenly ripped from them with no compensation due to their age and history making it impossible to conduct tradebacks, resulting in a significant loss of their, as you so aptly put it, "material wealth", given that many players have the majority of their assets invested in high-end gear, they're just going to drop the game and leave what little they have left behind.

 

Do you remember Solarity at all?

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 11 December 2015 - 03:03 PM.

[Xellie]

I'm pretty sure that most of my stuff is clean because I don't use the market, but not everyone reads forums, engages in the community this way etc. There are people who don't know the most basic things about the server, let alone that duping is an issue.

 

The only way to be sure is to not take part in the market.

 

btw, it applies to all kinds of items, not just cards. +9 twin edges, anyone?

[rojoky113]

 

The impact of losing an item you bought under good faith from another player - with clean zeny and items - and having it taken away from you with no compensation or acknowledgment is quite harsh. It demotivates people having lost so much for nothing, and as has happened many times in the past, they just walk away from the game and never look back. It's like being punished for participating in the player economy, trading with a person that you aren't expected to know the history of for an item that you have know way of determining the legitimacy of, using your own hard-earned zeny and personal items with no way of getting them back if the purchased gear or card turns out to be a dupe or sourced from RMT.

 

As much as I'd like to see the server purged of these items, and believe me I'd like nothing more, they're ingrained so deep in the economy with older RMT'd items having changed hands and circulated so many times now, and with the GMs having done nothing about it, a lot of innocent players (and I mean a lot - pretty much anyone having played this game for over a year) are going to end up losing things they throught were legitimate - that they bought and played with under that assumption - and if / when those items are suddenly ripped from them with no compensation due to their age and history making it impossible to conduct tradebacks, resulting in a significant loss of their, as you so aptly put it, "material wealth", given that many players have the majority of their assets invested in high-end gear, they're just going to drop the game and leave what little they have left behind.

 

Do you remember Solarity at all?

 

It's not like worthy compensation cannot be decided upon and given if a tradeback cannot be done, they don't have to just delete mvp cards and leave a note in its place saying "sucks bro sorry lol". That shouldn't be how it is handled. On that logic they shouldn't be investigating or deleting dupes/gens at all, but they still do afaik. Sucks but you know what sucks worse, playing on a server chock full of illegal rmted mvp cards.

 

At the very very very least as a start they need to begin enforcement to prevent any new illegit items to keep the problem from getting worse, as in develop a system to monitor new mvp/mini cards weekly that can be deleted during maint if illegit. This also needs to be done with god items and god item parts as well.

 

But doing nothing is not an option, it will slowly destroy the game. It is a significant part of what already has started to, managing to be a part of both the oversaturation of overpowered gears problem and the cheating problem. Both of which are regularly causing people to quit or not play in the first place, and both of which will hasten the death of this server.

 

Also please don't take any harshness in my tone or words personally as I certainly am not intending any. I'm sure both you and xellie are aware how much cheating ticks me off, but my intent here is to share my opinion and have a discussion.

 

Edited by rojoky113, 11 December 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[Xellie]

Compensation for +9 red twin when?

 

 

oh campitor, did you think I forgot? It's only been like.. a year?

[AlmrOfAtlas]

It's not like worthy compensation cannot be decided upon and given if a tradeback cannot be done, they don't have to just delete things and leave a note in its place saying "sucks bro sorry lol". On that logic they shouldn't be investigating or deleting dupes/gens at all, but they still do afaik.

 

At the very very very least as a start they need to begin enforcement to prevent any new illegit items to keep the problem from getting worse, as in develop a system to monitor new mvp/mini cards weekly that can be deleted during maint if illegit.

 

But doing nothing is not an option, it will slowly destroy the game. It is a significant part of what already has started to, managing to be a part of both the oversaturation of overpowered gears problem and the cheating problem.

 

They don't compensate if they can't tradeback. Read: they don't. Believe me.

 

Yes they need to deal with it, but it's going to affect quite a few people on the server, both old and new. I'd like to see something done about the vast quantities of illegitimate cards and gear we still have in circulation but they need to approach it extremely delicately or else risk alienating the current playerbase and making the environment inhospitable for new entries. Given the server's poor state atm, I don't think we'll be able to afford letting go of the very few people that can actually claim to still be invested, speaking for the legitimate side of Classic.

 

Please try to think of it from the perspective of these people losing their entire in-game livelihoods. It's quite a big deal.

[Xellie]

If they could get rid of all the bad items and not punish people for sometimes a year of work, I would be all for it.

 

Seeing guildmates punished after they spend 3 months raising zeny then 9 months camping an mvp purely for the weapon they gained, woke me up to the reality of it.

The hardest working (clean) players lose the most because they have no way of knowing.

[rojoky113]

They don't compensate if they can't tradeback. Read: they don't. Believe me.

 

Yes they need to deal with it, but it's going to affect quite a few people on the server, both old and new. I'd like to see something done about the vast quantities of illegitimate cards and gear we still have in circulation but they need to approach it extremely delicately or else risk alienating the current playerbase and making the environment inhospitable for new entries. Given the server's poor state atm, I don't think we'll be able to afford letting go of the very few people that can actually claim to still be invested, speaking for the legitimate side of Classic.

 

Please try to think of it from the perspective of these people losing their entire in-game livelihoods. It's quite a big deal.

 

Yes, they need to deal with it. They need to do it delicately. When they do this they need to give appropriate and worhty compensation if it is determined that a tradeback can't be done and that the items owner is not the one who RMTed/duped it (they get bans).

 

What they need to not do is nothing.

 

I get what you are saying about people losing things they are invested in, believe me. I don't want to see everything get deleted instantly all at once with nothing to show for it. But the other side of the coin is that you have to consider the longer term perspective of the health and future of the server as well as concern for those people. The server is never going to turn around if you refuse to take any action to remove the cancers that are slowly killing it. Appropriate action, delicate action, yes. No action, no.

 

Just like you can't refuse to take any action towards the proliferation of people cheating and using illegal 3PP, or blatantly harassing and abusing people, or these problems will only grow and do more and more damage.

Edited by rojoky113, 11 December 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Xellie]

What they need to is figure out how it is happening first....

[rojoky113]

That's important, but I would say if they can manage a system to monitor new items showing up every week so they can delete them that maint and keep them from really getting out into the server and making the problem worse without knowing those details that's a more important first step. Quarantine the disease before you study it and develop a cure.

[Xellie]

sure keep deleting the previous items possibly "legitly" obtained whilst those people fight vs people who are continuing to gather up illegit items between each maint

 

can you imagine the mindset? Those throwaway accounts? defending this week? throwaway hibram ^.^

Edited by Xellie, 11 December 2015 - 04:19 PM.

[rojoky113]

Er, better that they would be throwing away not insignificant money every week for something that would be deleted and they would be banned for every week rather than spending the same amount for something they get to use indefinitely with no punishment..?

Are you saying preventing any new illegit items from remaining on the server is worse than the status quo?

If you think figuring it out and stopping it altogether is just as easy that would be great I just doubt it is and it would be a temporary stopgap measure.

Edited by rojoky113, 11 December 2015 - 04:31 PM.

[Xellie]

Have you met this community... it already happens

 

 

anyway im done on this topic.... discussion requires more than 2 ppl talking and im hitting the alcohol now

Edited by Xellie, 11 December 2015 - 04:30 PM.

[Undying]

The red twin ordeal was handled very poorly.

-time of disabling was the worst possible (middle of woe for those who didn't have communication with campitor). Very poor.
-no compensation/trade back. Not fair for good willed players.

However, by not doing anything about it (illegal gears/cards and rmt in general) they are more or less making it a grey area. For example, it's breaking the rules however you "don't get banned". The issue and problems have gone on since the beginning of the server with minimal repercussions and the repercussions that did occur were done in the worst ways possible.

Concerned about RO turning into a moba, lol? RO (with no repercussions to rmt) is literally a pay to win game AND the kicker is the kafra shop isn't the problem in the slightest!!!! It's 3rd party websites and players who are reeping all of the benefits.

Why aren't people active on the server? Why would anybody farm MVP cards when they can buy it for cheaper then their internet bill!!! Why work in gears when you can go to a 3p website and (for the price of a mcdouble) buy all of the fm gear needed? RO is so impacted by illegit gears and rmt gears it is disgusting.

^the truth. Not meant for jabs at anybody, but somebody had to say it.

[Xellie]

answer me this

 

where are these mythological new players going to come from and will they stay on a server deader than one that people already leave because it's too empty/anti-social?

 

at this point if we lose more players it may as well reset/open new

[AlmrOfAtlas]

answer me this

 

where are these mythological new players going to come from and will they stay on a server deader than one that people already leave because it's too empty/anti-social?

 

at this point if we lose more players it may as well reset/open new

 

Players giving Classic a try right now are pserver strays, bored people from dying officials, nostalgia seekers with rose-tinted sunnies and...

 

That's about it.

 

Can't get any new players that don't have experience with the game because of WP's refusal to advertise. Anyone considering trying it either already has, and has since left for greener pastures with no intent on returning (early dev incompetence burned a lot of people and gave the server a terrible rep with the community at-large), or will only last a few days before realising that the barrier to entry is too high, and the server's prospects are nonexistent, not even mentioning that I've yet to meet a single person who's gone into Classic with anything but pessismism given the stigma surrounding it. If the current population was shuffled off the server either of their own volition or due to being forced off, Classic Loki would die. It wouldn't repopulate.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 11 December 2015 - 09:42 PM.

[Nathy]

Don't change anything. You throw out the idea of increasing range reduction and from a few posts I saw people saying change other things... You won't be able to get away with changing just 1 thing.

[Angelolol3]

Well, when i was first introduced to RO by a few people i had initially planned on making an account on both classic and renewal. After about 20min of classic not wanting to work, i gave up and made a renewal account. I have legitimately tried to make classic work but it never does, i always get some stupid error. If they want new people to play on that server, make the client freaking work first lol. There probably is a solution somewhere on google, but the fact that i even have to hunt a solution down to play on classic is stupid. And if i feel that way, I'm sure plenty of other people who did want to try it at some point feel that way too.

[zerowon]

This sums up my feelings