221 replies to this topic

[DietSodaa]

Anyhow, those are 2 different features. 1 is just relied on luck. If ur lucky, u get loot. Gate thing is completely different, also offtopic 

[xkazehanax]

I hope that we could close this topic since there are a group of people who are lobbying for the change, while there is more people who disagree to it. Changing something in such a large scale that affects the whole gameplay and requires everyone consent, non could see eye-to-eye with each other.

 

Instead, what I have noticed during the discussion is that everyone agrees on the shift of actions between PF and MF. Whenever a fight clashes out in one map, the other map are left with only the defender (sometimes even nobody). It is also can be seen that people who wish for removal of gate as well as those that are against it, both agrees to the idea of having separate days for WoE in PF and MF, including myself as I think that this would improve the focus of player's directions in WoE as well as the concentration of players in a certain area, leading to more action packed PVP scenes or the "Server vs Defender" scenario.

 

Since that is something that everyone could agree on, perhaps we should push towards that direction instead.

Edited by xkazehanax, 09 January 2016 - 09:11 AM.

[5318130516144610857]

I say again, this was suggested for small guilds to increase participation. Thread itself wasnt posted by a big woe guild member. Big guilds has no problem with opening it, as u have noticed these past woe's. I wonder how u can repeat same thing after reading everything and still not understanding the point of the discussion. 

 

I'm not even going to reply to you, it's pointless and I have nothing to add new. Edit: Actually, I have. Everything that I said and all of my reasoning has always been since the beginning of the discussion with both maps in mind, ever since Freyja merged into Odin to be more precise. Your or someone else's claim that I am thinking of an old "server vs prontera" scenario is plain false, and that never even crossed my mind. I haven't said anything yet until now because clearly you are the one who is mistaken and didn't understand that. I hope now this helps to get your mindset straight in regards to my points of view and can drop that beaten line of "you didn't udnerstand the point of the discussion cus you are thinking of old stuff scenario" which is completely false.

 

EDIT: Yep, PvE is off topic here.

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 09 January 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[crafter4epics]

Unfortunately with the current seeds and horrible imbalance there is right now. there is no way of getting "stronger" if we let RNG skills and crits hones, vip, p2w and runes dictate the way we pvp. The only time there was any sort of skill involved was back in LOTS. Anybody now claiming to be the best or attempting to say to git gud in our current meta of balance needs to look at the imbalances first before claiming l2p or git gud or nice try kid.

 

T h a n k s :^)

Yes the right path to solve any other PVP(entrance camping, cls, etc) & also pve aspects of the game. Clearly we have less veteran players in this game but well there are still new players. as veteran player will state that the game needs to be balanced as per other problems said. i've played this game since beta & even old problems are not yet been resolved. i will explain this & how it's related to the situation of gate removal. for some overview i've explained some here https://forums.warpp...y-some-players/

W/ the current meta, i'll make an example for knight & sinx w/c most likely hits 1-shot or kill groups fast(warrior counts as knight - dps & tanking potential). We could add priest to this equation perma stuns & imba DoT's ignoring def. As of now, you could even macro sins' grimtooth or knight's boomerang other skills etc even if no one is around while waiting. some would say that is pvp now but let's tackle that later. A quick explanation a knight tumbles upon a max raid & does dmg and killed low hp classes due to BT. Survivors stunning him until he dies & for a tank, he would get more kills. For this let's say his average of 15. sinx kills should be lower but since they could dmg 150k+ a well positioned grimtooth kills 7 & dies after stun presumably much faster than knight, everything situational. Because of this 1-shotting galore ratio of kills to attacker is higher, defending any position in the map is an advantage. Defending the gate w/ 2 knights destroying a raid who recalled is an easy defense as it is. raid ecalled will be in one position & will be dissolved easily by aoe(1-shots is the problem). If ever the defenders were killed, it is also a fast dps at the gate(if 1-shotters are included in that raid) but defenders could relay the msg for a counter ecall. whichever have better positioning(not to get 1-shot from aoe) will most likely win. melee attackers of gate are prone to booms, grimtooths or such. it is a better strategy to move defenders away from each other. ratio attacker to kills.

LOTS has been more fun for pvp just as i've cited https://forums.warpp...-players/page-2
sinx before will cast a cycle of skills or more to achieve a kill. casting the kick skill, double atk twice, casting ulti, running around to avoid opponent's stun or aoe, stunning them while waiting for cooldown, shadow armor if opponent casts ulti, etc thus lets you think w/c skill is right in that situation. You could kill cloth types w/ few skills as sinx is a dps killer type. Today, you only need hide & grimtooth or cross impact, shadow armor to avoid groups. Even for long fights, you most likely don't need to cast your ulti since CI has more dmg w/ no requirement(ulti needs 5) & high vigor is fast cd.

As for getting geared up, everything could be achieved in the game except max runes. For how imba these seeds are, i had power 28 & 27 before on a ranger(bow & quiver) & i got complete eddga during its 1st week & almost 1 shotted a pvp monk at woe w/ remaining around 10k+ of target's hp. Imagine that on a knight & the max one could get is power 40 x 2 w/ offhand. There are formulas just search the forums. now 40% x 2 power will multiply a constant by 80%, as sample of 100,000 w/ 80% increase will be 180,000, Someone not having offhand w/ power 40 will be 140,000, now comparing to average power available power 15 will give 115,000. See the gap there? Would i be willing to buy a power 40, armor 25, shock 20? But since they are removing chaos's seeds(serenia don't include them anymore for cap, gloves & shoes) it would be better to wait for the said balance & reserve funds for later use.
Now, what could devs do about seeds?
. they could remove them & next set of gears will only require purple runes(cls for pvp,bind for pve)
   - average pvp & casual players will be happy, elite players who got power 40 most likely from black market will not be happy
. they could edit the chance to get max runes higher then make the power & armor to number values(% of dmg increases as new content comes) as to rework other greens shock 20% chance is way to imba
   - average pvp & casual players will be happy, elite players will be happy
. they could balance as said above & then they could sell seeds at kafra shop
   - average pvp & casual players will be happy, elite players will be happy, gravity & WP also happy

these said runes are most likely from black market anyways that gravity & WP doesn't benefit from them
We also don't know for sure if they will introduce new runes that seems to serve as power or armor runes w/c lets us abandon the use of green, blue or red runes & use new runes for the next set of gears.

Edited by crafter4epics, 09 January 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[7843140731162112220]

I say again, this was suggested for small guilds to increase participation. Thread itself wasnt posted by a big woe guild member. Big guilds has no problem with opening it, as u have noticed these past woe's.

 

If big guild has no problem opening it, so why should remove it? 'Small guild' can just participate Prontera's WoE after the gate have been opened by 'big guild'.

 

Is there any reason 'small guild' can't pass the gate even after 'big guild' opened it, that they need to open themselves?

 

Does 'big guild' don't want to open it? Or rather can't open it so use the excuse of so called 'small guild' to remove gate completely?

Edited by 7843140731162112220, 09 January 2016 - 09:20 AM.

[crafter4epics]

Now why we don't need to remove prontera main gate next woe's starting position is good for explanation. Legend for castle forts gates(starts 0 or closed) & guilds who acquired them

                        PFC-B

                 WG-0           EG-0

                                              PFE-C

PFW-A

                            MG-0

     PFS-A

Numbers depend on the strategy, we know A got morroc they could defend & put more players there

A:

1

A gets PFC

PFC-A WG-1 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-C MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFE

PFC-A WG-0 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-A MG-0 PFS-A

assuming no one opposes them when they acquire & clear all prontera

2

A gets PFE

PFC-B WG-0 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-A MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFC

PFC-A WG-0v1 EG-0v1 PFW-A PFE-C MG-0 PFS-A

assuming no one opposes them when they acquire & clear all prontera

3

B gets PFW

PFC-B WG-0v1 EG-0 PFW-B PFE-C MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFC

PFC-A WG-1 EG-0 PFW-B PFE-C MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFW

PFC-A WG-0 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-C MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFE

PFC-A WG-0 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-A MG-0 PFS-A

assuming no one opposes them when they acquire & clear all prontera

4

B gets PFW

PFC-B WG-0v1 EG-0 PFW-B PFE-C MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFE

PFC-B WG-0v1 EG-0 PFW-B PFE-A MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFW

PFC-B WG-0v1 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-A MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFC

PFC-A WG-1 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-A MG-0 PFS-A

assuming no one opposes them when they acquire & clear all prontera

5

B gets PFE

PFC-B WG-0v1 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-B MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFC

PFC-A WG-1 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-B MG-0 PFS-A

A gets PFE

PFC-A WG-0 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-A MG-0 PFS-A

assuming no one opposes them when they acquire & clear all prontera

6

B gets PFS

PFC-B WG-0v1 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-A MG-0 PFS-B

A gets PFC

PFC-A W-1 EG-0 PFW-A PFE-A MG-0 PFS-B

* this is an optimum strategy for B assuming if B is unable to get PFW & PFE due to defenders if they want to get back to the castle fast by opening south orb

 

simulation of all possible outcomes of battles and so on but to explain the pront main gain elimination or south's orb usage. any guild including castle owner must have at least 1 fort to get back castle fast if their castle is destroyed. west or east for faster run next reset, south for an instant run thru the gate.

[deathcauser]

Strong and bold statements written here. It's not my place to tell a fellow VCR on simply how to be stronger through better strategy, planning, coordination between guild members and execution of plan, but I do have a few questions that I would like to ask a reputable member of this community. 

 

You dont have to. last woe i came in with nothing more than my runes/hones and no vip or p2w bless buff and no collector. I killed "top" players From the "top guilds" by my self. I am a Assassin but i actually know how to play it rather than lol1shot here. Now if i had a group of players i can do a lot more damage but any amount of Planning or strategy can be foiled by a Crit bt shield boom or a crit grimtooth or a stun chain or a choke point.

 

Are we all not under the same game parameters when we login to server specifically RO2 Odin?

In the current state of the game yes, Assuming we all started fresh. Pre sea merge you had some p2w'ers some costumes and some minimal impact from some players who manged to RNG them selfs a power 40% or a high quality seed/RNG Hone. After the Sea merge Sea did bring over a lot of runes with are now in the market, Some runes according to my friends database arent supposed to exist anymore but they still show up in a certain facebook market. Also you can argue some players horde of Purple explorer pot is not under the same parameter as i expect nobody from NA would buy them for a dollar a piece.

 

Do certain players get more privileges while others dont's with the exception of the castle/fort buffs that increases a small amount of HP and speed which they earned it through capturing of WoE properties?

 

Woe buffs =/= arent hones, cards, and high end runes. Also you can argue that they do get more privilege as the castles/forts drop +10 refinement stones further boosting a guilds players while smaller guilds still struggle to get their first optimization on their gear. Also with no limit on how many castles/fort a guild can own. A guild can monopolize and have higher chances of getting more refinement stones per fort/castle due to drop rates.

 

Are the Knights or any classes of the same kind in a successful guild differs from others? What makes you think they are more successful ? 

If your asking this and dont see the potential of Shield boomerang wiping out a squad of players. Let alone multiple shield booms cast on players. Let me ask you this. Would a guild of full wizards win against a guild of knights?! 

 

If you are referring to the class imbalances, why is this being discussed in this thread? Does the Main gate at Prontera Fortress has anything to do with it? The gate 1 hit killed you?

Technically it can if the defenders have a ton of fire power on the area. 

 

Please do assist me with these questions as I would very much so like to participate into this special privileged group of players if they do ever exist.

I dont understand the question. 

 

edit : Ohh yeah... Thank you in advance

your welcome tbh

 

Edited by deathcauser, 09 January 2016 - 12:07 PM.

[Cartian]

Are we all not under the same game parameters when we login to server specifically RO2 Odin?

 

Do certain players get more privileges while others dont's with the exception of the castle/fort buffs that increases a small amount of HP and speed which they earned it through capturing of WoE properties? 

 

Are the Knights or any classes of the same kind in a successful guild differs from others? What makes you think they are more successful ? 

 

If you are referring to the class imbalances, why is this being discussed in this thread? Does the Main gate at Prontera Fortress has anything to do with it? The gate 1 hit killed you?

 

Please do assist me with these questions as I would very much so like to participate into this special privileged group of players if they do ever exist.

 

edit : Ohh yeah... Thank you in advance

 

Adding to deathcauser's enlightenment to you.  I'll just show you what was said in 2014 before the sea-server merge which happens to answer your questions in 2016.  Your statement do want to make it sound like we are under the same server yet hiding the fact that we weren't under the same server.

 

https://forums.warpp...10#entry1900935

 

https://forums.warpp...11#entry1901034

 

Btw, I still have doubts on things like these https://forums.warpp...back/?p=1900169.  Back in the Guild vs Guild days in Greedy Mines when pet wasn't disabled it definitely make a difference, even when we were all logged into the same Odin server.  If that is legit, there must be many legit max capped seeds brought to Odin at the time.

[flukeSG2]

I definitely feel sorry if this is the only intelligent 1 liner that you can come up with attempting to discredit my arguments. I do not wish to discuss on something that is off topic and has no benefit for the community.

 

Let me simplify my arguments if I may. A child that do not know how to open a wrapper (in this case the main gate) will not be able to to taste the sweet nectar of candies (yes... it means fort/castle). There are plenty of other kids in the hood who knows and will make an effort to unwrap the candy. Going to the parents(Warp Portal) and asking them to unwrap the candy shows the level of maturity the child is currently at. Even if the parents unwrapped the candy, the other kids would have already eaten more candies and continue to do so in the near future.

 

Im also puzzled why hasn't anyone started a thread to request the removal of the poring rock at Jawaii Island. Coz the main gate at Prontera Fortress and the Poring Rock plays the same part. Only those who can open the gates are worthy of going in for the lucrative loots. Perhaps its because someone is guarding the prontera main gate and not the poring rock ?

 

Quite literally the worst argument I've ever seen.  As already stated by someone else, that comparison is completely ludicrous.  Once again shows how some people view the upper forts as free gifts for owning Prontera Castle.  Which just goes right back to the heart of this entire feedback thread to prove (and it's been thoroughly proven) why the majority believe the gate should be removed to provide a more level playing field across both maps, which would provide for more fun PvP encounters, new tactics, new strategies to be employed.

 

I hope that we could close this topic since there are a group of people who are lobbying for the change, while there is more people who disagree to it. Changing something in such a large scale that affects the whole gameplay and requires everyone consent, non could see eye-to-eye with each other.

 

Instead, what I have noticed during the discussion is that everyone agrees on the shift of actions between PF and MF. Whenever a fight clashes out in one map, the other map are left with only the defender (sometimes even nobody). It is also can be seen that people who wish for removal of gate as well as those that are against it, both agrees to the idea of having separate days for WoE in PF and MF, including myself as I think that this would improve the focus of player's directions in WoE as well as the concentration of players in a certain area, leading to more action packed PVP scenes or the "Server vs Defender" scenario.

 

Since that is something that everyone could agree on, perhaps we should push towards that direction instead.

 

Well that's your opinion, I mostly see one guild defending what is usually their possession, where as more people from several guilds agree with the idea that removing the gate would be better for WoE now.

 

Also while most do agree that separating the days that each WoE map plays upon would be a good solution, you should know as well as I that it's been said by Njoror something on the order of that magnitude would take a great deal of coding and time and not likely to be seen soon.

Edited by flukeSG2, 09 January 2016 - 02:35 PM.

[TomatoChan]

well I mostly see only one guild defending on the removal of the gate while more and several people from other guild is opposing the removal of gate as it is not the best solution. That's what I see anyway, since guild name are not to be mention.

[flukeSG2]

well I mostly see only one guild defending on the removal of the gate while more and several people from other guild is opposing the removal of gate as it is not the best solution. That's what I see anyway, since guild name are not to be mention.

 

I think you are confused who belongs to what guild then.  I see at least 4 guilds I recognize posting and 3 of them are for the removal.

 

Also can I just say wow, what a great woe today and great example why the gate should be removed!

[5318130516144610857]

To me the argument that the entire removal from the start should be done as incentive for smaller guilds to participate doesn't make sense. Every WoE with few exceptions, the main gate has been opened and I only see 1 small guild on the maps. Where are all the others? It doesn't stick. If it was a given fact that more smaller guilds would participate in a manner that makes a difference to ownership outcomes, I wouldn't mind to remove it to save a low population pvp game. But it isn't, it's all speculation. If you really want to adjust the map dificulty to smaller guilds removing the main gate alone won't suffice, you would have to nerf a lot more if we want to go that way. I don't want to remove the gates for all reasons I've already stated.

 

 

why the majority believe the gate should be removed to provide a more level playing field across both maps, which would provide for more fun PvP encounters, new tactics, new strategies to be employed.

 

 

If the majority wants to remove the gate then why don't they do it themselves to create the more level playing field across both maps? Why ask devs to remove the fun of doing it themselves ?

 

And the beat goes on....

[Rhein14]

Gate opened most of the time and the result is amazing. PVP in whole map, more action, and can move in a large area of map. 

 

Final Result was WOE was great, everyone having a good time, participation of players increased. If these events continues opening the gate most of the time more players will be spreading the news to come and join WOE means more participants. Was reading and monitoring Pub chat as well and guild recruitment.

 

But please put your comments more and suggestion on this thread. Thank you for participating and replying my on my thread. 

 

 

Assassin VCR

Edited by Rhein14, 10 January 2016 - 10:06 PM.

[TomatoChan]

Gate opened most of the time and the result is amazing. PVP in whole map, more action, and can move in a large area of map. 

 

Final Result is WOE is great, everyone having a good time, participation of players increased. If these events continues opening the gate most of the time more players will be spreading the news to come and join WOE means more participants. Was reading and monitoring Pub chat as well and guild recruitment.

 

But please put your comments more and suggestion on this thread. Thank you for participating and replying my on my thread. 

 

 

Assassin VCR

 

Having more participants does in fact increase the chances of Main gate falling down, and this in return encourage more participants in WOE. By having a guild willingly take down south and open the orb or having multiple guilds attacking main gate & south fort is a better strategy than having main gate removed entirely.

 

As for the someone who quote me claiming that I've misunderstood. I reiterate, that is from my point of view*, of course you may have your own point of view as well, however, in my opinion your arguments is invalid and not supported by substantial evidence. A pre-school student may have a better argument than you do, please come out from your delusional world and face the reality that not everyone agrees with you*. Stop twisting facts and adding your own words as well. Go Google up how to construct your thought into words and backing your argument with actual facts and not assumption, hope to see some improvement in your future feedbacks.

 

 

I Strongly disagree on the removal of the main gate of Prontera Fortress and I stand alone for my opinion.

Edited by TomatoChan, 09 January 2016 - 10:22 PM.

[5318130516144610857]

it's been said by Njoror something on the order of that magnitude would take a great deal of coding and time and not likely to be seen soon.

 

 

I find it hard to believe, shutting down temporarily access to a map is something probably very easy to do. I don't buy it!

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 09 January 2016 - 10:14 PM.

[TomatoChan]

I find it hard to believe, shutting down temporarily access to a map is something probably very easy to do. I don't buy it!

 

Come to think of it, temporarily shutting down access to WOE map had been done a while ago due to Jawaii pet bug. Having to modified a map ie: PF main gate may involved more coding imo. Maybe Njoror could kindly enlighten us on this?

[5318130516144610857]

Ideally both maps should be free to access during WoE, only one with war and the other isn't. If this takes a lot of time and coding, then a simple solution until the server gets that patch would be to shut down for 1 hour twice a week the map in which WoE isn't taking place. Just an idea.....

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 09 January 2016 - 10:25 PM.

[flukeSG2]

To me the argument that the entire removal from the start should be done as incentive for smaller guilds to participate doesn't make sense. Every WoE with few exceptions, the main gate has been opened and I only see 1 small guild on the maps. Where are all the others? It doesn't stick. If it was a given fact that more smaller guilds would participate in a manner that makes a difference to ownership outcomes, I wouldn't mind to remove it to save a low population pvp game. But it isn't, it's all speculation. If you really want to adjust the map dificulty to smaller guilds removing the main gate alone won't suffice, you would have to nerf a lot more if we want to go that way. I don't want to remove the gates for all reasons I've already stated.

 

 

If the majority wants to remove the gate then why don't they do it themselves to create the more level playing field across both maps? Why ask devs to remove the fun of doing it themselves ?

 

And the beat goes on....

 

I dunno dude, go ask a guild that doesn't attack Prontera why they don't attack?  The beat only goes on in your head cause you march to the beat of a different drummer.

 

I find it hard to believe, shutting down temporarily access to a map is something probably very easy to do. I don't buy it!

 

If you don't believe it go ask him yourself.  I don't know what to tell you, you don't believe much except what comes out of your own mouth.

[flukeSG2]

Having more participants does in fact increase the chances of Main gate falling down, and this in return encourage more participants in WOE. By having a guild willingly take down south and open the orb or having multiple guilds attacking main gate & south fort is a better strategy than having main gate removed entirely.

 

As for the someone who quote me claiming that I've misunderstood. I reiterate, that is from my point of view*, of course you may have your own point of view as well, however, in my opinion your arguments is invalid and not supported by substantial evidence. A pre-school student may have a better argument than you do, please come out from your delusional world and face the reality that not everyone agrees with you*. Stop twisting facts and adding your own words as well. Go Google up how to construct your thought into words and backing your argument with actual facts and not assumption, hope to see some improvement in your future feedbacks.

 

 

I Strongly disagree on the removal of the main gate of Prontera Fortress and I stand alone for my opinion.

 

I have provided plenty of facts.  Today's WoE was a great example of how it would work if the gate was not there.  All I see is you voicing your opinion, no facts or defense of your opinion at all.  Not to mention just a bunch of slanderous comments after wards.  I don't need to google anything, my sentences and thoughts are well constructed on my own.  Also I would challenge you to face reality instead of living in that bubble of yours, I see the larger picture here not just for my own guild but for the sake of the game.  I'm not biased because I own or don't own a fortress.  Try to see past your own egos for once.  I hope to see some facts and evidence to back up your opinions on feedback threads in the future, until then good luck with that tiny bubble.

 

Come to think of it, temporarily shutting down access to WOE map had been done a while ago due to Jawaii pet bug. Having to modified a map ie: PF main gate may involved more coding imo. Maybe Njoror could kindly enlighten us on this?

 

WoE maps were not shut down, ch10 was closed.  The WoE maps still functioned on all remaining 9 channels.  WP was aware and monitored in case the Fort and Castle Emperiums spawned and were able to be taken.  Fortunately this was not the case and they did not spawn on the remaining channels.

 

Get your facts straight before you start before you start talking down to people, you'll sound much less like a presumptuous ass.

[TomatoChan]

I dunno dude, go ask a guild that doesn't attack Prontera why they don't attack?  The beat only goes on in your head cause you march to the beat of a different drummer.

 

 

If you don't believe it go ask him yourself.  I don't know what to tell you, you don't believe much except what comes out of your own mouth.

 

Since "you dunno" and I know, I will answer you.You may have your own conclusion on why other guilds doesn't attack Prontera Fortress already. Kindly be reminded that "not everyone thinks the same as you", this applies to players preference of playing RO2, be it PVE or PVP. If you have been social enough to ask around, you would of notice the significantly large number of PVE based players and guilds. These players and guild have no interest in WOE solely because they are of a more PVE orientated background. Besides that, some of them may also be inexperience or have not much exposure to WOE. However, these PVE type of player are not to be misunderstood for being under-geared or incompetent in PVP, they may just prefer hitting mobs than another player.

 

Of course any player would questions something when there is a doubt arisen, to be honest you haven't exactly earn enough credibility to be trusted, hence seeking enlightenment from a Game VCR or GM is plausible. He/she/anyone have their right to not believe especially when the statement is not on credible source, would you cite me in your university assignment? or a research paper? how strong would that be? Anyway don't take my examples as it is, this is a "figurative" example. Do take note before you misunderstood me again.

 

 

Another Quote for you would be, "you cant fill in more water in a cup that is already full".

 

 

 

"WoE maps were not shut down, ch10 was closed.  The WoE maps still functioned on all remaining 9 channels.  WP was aware and monitored in case the Fort and Castle Emperiums spawned and were able to be taken.  Fortunately this was not the case and they did not spawn on the remaining channels. Get your facts straight before you start before you start talking down to people, you'll sound much less like a presumptuous ass."    <--- to this I would clarify again, I'm no game developer or IT intelligent person, Imo means in my opinion (which is not on professional background, just a player) as I always pray that you would finish reading someone's sentence before reacting; to no avail. I ask Njoror about his "professional" view about this. Assumptions made, clarification seeked. your facts does in fact contradicts with my facts, wanna tabulate, poll and form a table anytime soon?

Edited by TomatoChan, 09 January 2016 - 11:34 PM.

[flukeSG2]

You can not blame players for not ganging up on a single map when there are in fact two maps to play upon and one is far more open than the other.  There is no incentive to those who can sit in a fort or a castle on the other map to even participate when it leaves a gaping whole in their own defense.  As it's been explained multiple times now, Morroc castle doesn't automatically come with two free forts and a single point to defend the whole map from.  For what reason should Prontera remain so?  For example, if the defending guild owning the Morroc Castle decided to attack Prontera, they'd first have to attack the main gate correct?  However, in an attempt at retaliation, the Prontera Castle holders have no such line of defense to penetrate and have a straight shot towards their castle.  Does that seem fair or balanced?  Not to me it doesn't.  If the majority of the server believes in Class Balance, why would you not also believe in Map Balance?

 

For whatever it supposedly loses in defense strategy, I say supposedly because the tactic of guarding the same area still exists and is still just as valid, it gains in multiple attack and defense strategies.  For those who say its a guild's lack of strength, from what do you draw this assumption from?  All I see is numbers, a larger number vs smaller ones.  From how can you judge another's strength when you simply out number them?  How do you know what equipment we are using, what seed runes and what hones we have (in my own personal case this is easy because I choose not to hide my info)?  This would be the same as me assuming you are weak because you hide behind numbers.  That thought is equally as ludicrous.

 

From this feedback thread, I see a lot of wishing things were like they used to be as reasoning not to change things, not accepting how things are currently.  Another thing I see is a lot of bias because of where players happen to be on which side the that main gate.  I also see a few who are looking at the bigger picture and giving multiple cited examples only to be met with very egotistical responses.  The majority I speak of is the majority of guilds participating in this thread, not necessarily the majority of players.  This isn't about one guild, it's about the entire server and who's left player in it.  Accommodations should be made to make the game equally enjoyable for everyone.

[TomatoChan]

You can not blame players for not ganging up on a single map when there are in fact two maps to play upon and one is far more open than the other.  There is no incentive to those who can sit in a fort or a castle on the other map to even participate when it leaves a gaping whole in their own defense.  As it's been explained multiple times now, Morroc castle doesn't automatically come with two free forts and a single point to defend the whole map from.  For what reason should Prontera remain so?  For example, if the defending guild owning the Morroc Castle decided to attack Prontera, they'd first have to attack the main gate correct?  However, in an attempt at retaliation, the Prontera Castle holders have no such line of defense to penetrate and have a straight shot towards their castle.  Does that seem fair or balanced?  Not to me it doesn't.  If the majority of the server believes in Class Balance, why would you not also believe in Map Balance?

 

For whatever it supposedly loses in defense strategy, I say supposedly because the tactic of guarding the same area still exists and is still just as valid, it gains in multiple attack and defense strategies.  For those who say its a guild's lack of strength, from what do you draw this assumption from?  All I see is numbers, a larger number vs smaller ones.  From how can you judge another's strength when you simply out number them?  How do you know what equipment we are using, what seed runes and what hones we have (in my own personal case this is easy because I choose not to hide my info)?  This would be the same as me assuming you are weak because you hide behind numbers.  That thought is equally as ludicrous.

 

From this feedback thread, I see a lot of wishing things were like they used to be as reasoning not to change things, not accepting how things are currently.  Another thing I see is a lot of bias because of where players happen to be on which side the that main gate.  I also see a few who are looking at the bigger picture and giving multiple cited examples only to be met with very egotistical responses.  The majority I speak of is the majority of guilds participating in this thread, not necessarily the majority of players.  This isn't about one guild, it's about the entire server and who's left player in it.  Accommodations should be made to make the game equally enjoyable for everyone.

 

Life is about making decision. Scarcity forces someone to consider about opportunity cost (OC), the oc of contesting in PF is the possibility of losing any possessions in MF with a chance of not being able to hold any possession in PF. Hence, it is wise to consider your number of woe participants and what are your strength, map-wise. In this, you sub-consciously agreed that the problem does in fact lies on the insufficient number of people in your guild going for WOE (or any guild with a small amount of participants).

 

The gate in PF can be taken down by direct hit, or opening the orb (with/without the ownership of south fort) of course owning south fort would make it easier to open the orb. In some of the suggestions regarding having different WOE timings for MF and PF, this could actually reduce the case whereby one map is abandoned while another is much more favoured, as ALL WOE Guilds would be contesting in the same map, and the problem with "main gate being impossible to down" or "too big a hurdle" will be solved. The problem would lie in implementing these changes without causing more bug, *in my not professional, just a player opinion*

[flukeSG2]

Since "you dunno" and I know, I will answer you.You may have your own conclusion on why other guilds doesn't attack Prontera Fortress already. Kindly be reminded that "not everyone thinks the same as you", this applies to players preference of playing RO2, be it PVE or PVP. If you have been social enough to ask around, you would of notice the significantly large number of PVE based players and guilds. These players and guild have no interest in WOE solely because they are of a more PVE orientated background. Besides that, some of them may also be inexperience or have not much exposure to WOE. However, these PVE type of player are not to be misunderstood for being under-geared or incompetent in PVP, they may just prefer hitting mobs than another player.

 

Of course any player would questions something when there is a doubt arisen, to be honest you haven't exactly earn enough credibility to be trusted, hence seeking enlightenment from a Game VCR or GM is plausible. He/she/anyone have their right to not believe especially when the statement is not on credible source, would you cite me in your university assignment? or a research paper? how strong would that be? Anyway don't take my examples as it is, this is a "figurative" example. Do take note before you misunderstood me again.

 

 

Another Quote for you would be, "you cant fill in more water in a cup that is already full".

 

 

 

"WoE maps were not shut down, ch10 was closed.  The WoE maps still functioned on all remaining 9 channels.  WP was aware and monitored in case the Fort and Castle Emperiums spawned and were able to be taken.  Fortunately this was not the case and they did not spawn on the remaining channels. Get your facts straight before you start before you start talking down to people, you'll sound much less like a presumptuous ass."    <--- to this I would clarify again, I'm no game developer or IT intelligent person, Imo means in my opinion (which is not on professional background, just a player) as I always pray that you would finish reading someone's sentence before reacting; to no avail. I ask Njoror about his "professional" view about this. Assumptions made, clarification seeked. your facts does in fact contradicts with my facts, wanna tabulate, poll and form a table anytime soon?
 

 

That was a facetious comment, not to be taken seriously, because I've already explained in great detail why they don't attack Prontera.  However your comment about PvE guilds and how they are supposed to relate to WoE, oddly trails off and never gets to a real explanation as to why a PvE guild has anything to do with attacking Prontera WoE map.

 

I guess I can't give you any more information because you are already overflowing with knowledge?  That is how I read that quote in relation to your statements prior to the quote itself.  However, might I suggest a more fitting quote you should have used is "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

[TomatoChan]

That was a facetious comment, not to be taken seriously, because I've already explained in great detail why they don't attack Prontera.  However your comment about PvE guilds and how they are supposed to relate to WoE, oddly trails off and never gets to a real explanation as to why a PvE guild has anything to do with attacking Prontera WoE map.

 

I guess I can't give you any more information because you are already overflowing with knowledge?  That is how I read that quote in relation to your statements prior to the quote itself.  However, might I suggest a more fitting quote you should have used is "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

 

The problem lies in you not taking another individual's opinion seriously, or with respect. Your ability to understand conversations is unbelievably low. You were asking "why these guild doesn't attack PF" a PVE guild that doesn't attack in WOE/PF falls right in this category, and the link to WOE is there. I cant do anything about your ability to comprehend simple Q's and A's, but do try re-read say 10 times, if you don't get it.

 

Of course it is good to share what you know to someone who appeared to not know, this is called knowledge sharing. Good Quote anyway, in my interpretation that is GM will see these suggestion, and it will still be up to them to decide on making any appropriate changes.

Edited by TomatoChan, 10 January 2016 - 12:11 AM.

[flukeSG2]

Life is about making decision. Scarcity forces someone to consider about opportunity cost (OC), the oc of contesting in PF is the possibility of losing any possessions in MF with a chance of not being able to hold any possession in PF. Hence, it is wise to consider your number of woe participants and what are your strength, map-wise. In this, you sub-consciously agreed that the problem does in fact lies on the insufficient number of people in your guild going for WOE (or any guild with a small amount of participants).

 

The gate in PF can be taken down by direct hit, or opening the orb (with/without the ownership of south fort) of course owning south fort would make it easier to open the orb. In some of the suggestions regarding having different WOE timings for MF and PF, this could actually reduce the case whereby one map is abandoned while another is much more favoured, as ALL WOE Guilds would be contesting in the same map, and the problem with "main gate being impossible to down" or "too big a hurdle" will be solved. The problem would lie in implementing these changes without causing more bug, *in my not professional, just a player opinion*

 

I agree with changing WoE maps time tables to not occur on the same day and time.  That said, I will repeat that Njoror has stated an implement like that would take a great deal of time and coding and wouldn't be likely seen soon. 

 

Your agreement in this issue seems to me like an acknowledgement of the underlying problem which you also state in your comment "insufficient number of people."  You agree that changing WoE maps to alternate times would reduce the case whereby one map is abandoned while another if more favored.  Yet you disagree with the fact that removing the main gate would in fact promote activity on both maps simultaneously as seen today, because the main gate was controlled often by opposing guilds to that of the castle holder.  Interesting contradiction if I may say so.

 

Your clarification on how to open the main gate is unnecessary as it's been stated several times, however it seems that you and several others think simply explaining how it's done changes the fact that the orb, south fortress, the castle and remaining forts can all be defended by one choke point.  And that simply explaining this gives the guilds who choose to stay in the safety of the other map, the needed incentive to come and attack it.  When sadly this is not the case as I explained in my last post.