131 replies to this topic

[Bazzz]

Its bound to happen here aswell ,will take some time though.

 

We could as a player base try to establish a reserve/alternative currency to zeny ... ... but thats pretty much a monster internal community project... 

 

 

Edit: Silvervine could have been a reserve currency and has some of the crucial steps already taken to be just that, but some essential parts are sadly missing

 

There is one it's called US dollars. Your zeny day by day becomes worthless so keep it in sv and wpe codes or gear( but WP will -_- you over if you keep it in this eventually, it's only a matter of time).

[RealGarion]

There is one it's called US dollars. Your zeny day by day becomes worthless so keep it in sv and wpe codes or gear( but WP will you over if you keep it in this eventually, it's only a matter of time).

KP/Silvervine ist tied to US dollar so yes thats on this side a reserve currency ... ... there is none for zeny though making it more and more worthless with every day passing by

[kinkthecat]

renewal economy does the same thing calm down

[TrevMUN]

Dude needs more ROcommunism  XD

 

*Soviet-ish music intensifies*

 

 

 

There is one it's called US dollars. Your zeny day by day becomes worthless so keep it in sv and wpe codes or gear( but WP will you over if you keep it in this eventually, it's only a matter of time).

 

Man, and just last week I had made a comic about MMO inflation. A certain other MMO came up where they are literally able to attach a real-world value to in-game assets due to the ability to buy and sell paid time.

 

All RO needs now is a permanently destroyable gear mechanic and the circle will be complete!

[Kerbera]

is gold selling legal on graal restart? 

<Snip>

Edited by VModPassionFruit, 18 November 2017 - 07:43 PM.
Removed zeny link

[VModPassionFruit]

Please check this Kerbera: Link

[Andini]

They advertise freely in all cities as if it is legal

[yoyoninetail]

So are there any plans on a mass ban wave or is warpportal just going to change some packets every week for the next years?

[RealGarion]

 

 

Man, and just last week I had made a comic about MMO inflation. A certain other MMO came up where they are literally able to attach a real-world value to in-game assets due to the ability to buy and sell paid time.

 

All RO needs now is a permanently destroyable gear mechanic and the circle will be complete!

 

If they do want to stop a hyperinflation they have to take several steps:

1. Create an reserve ingame currency that is purchased by real life Money (thats done -> Silvervine)

2. Make sure Silvervine cant be used to by ingame items (thats done too its only useable for Cash Shop items)

3. Make sure you cant change Silvervine back for real life money (yeap done)

4. Make Silvervine tradeable between players (yeap done)

5. Let players use Silvervine to purchase VIP (not done, would be a good idea its not entirely a nessecity, but would allow f2p people to get thier hands on vip encouraging them to play more and keep paying people more engaged ... good working example for that is Eve Online with plex)

6. Make Silvervine buyable with (a fixed and by gm adjustable) amount of zeny (a cap should be implemented, a somewhat reasonable amount would be 1/2 of the silvervine needed to buy vip for a month ,as a monthly cap) (not done ... and of course bots need to be dealt to even attempt that)

7. Make sure silvervine cant be changed back to zeny ,except with players (thats done too)

 

This way you have  zeny <> silvervine/vip <> real life money .  Zeny is only used for ingame items(or to buy silvervine) , Silvervine is only used for Cash shop items (you should still always implement events like the amistr bag, given f2p the ability to get thier hands on this staff without exchanging to silvervine first) , and real life money is only used for silvervine.  

 

With this you make sure that zeny doesnt loose all of its value, at least its always worth its fixed amount of silvervine that is worth a fixed amount of real life money, this worked on some mmos quite well

[TrevMUN]

So are there any plans on a mass ban wave or is warpportal just going to change some packets every week for the next years?

Mass bans are about as effective as packet switching. Botters just heave out new randomly generated characters once their current accounts are banned.

 

Though I would say with packet switching you at least get a moment of respite as every botting account finds itself unable to log in until their handlers figure out a workaround.

 

If they do want to stop a hyperinflation they have to take several steps:

1. Create an reserve ingame currency that is purchased by real life Money (thats done -> Silvervine)

2. Make sure Silvervine cant be used to by ingame items (thats done too its only useable for Cash Shop items)

3. Make sure you cant change Silvervine back for real life money (yeap done)

4. Make Silvervine tradeable between players (yeap done)

5. Let players use Silvervine to purchase VIP (not done, would be a good idea its not entirely a nessecity, but would allow f2p people to get thier hands on vip encouraging them to play more and keep paying people more engaged ... good working example for that is Eve Online with plex)

6. Make Silvervine buyable with (a fixed and by gm adjustable) amount of zeny (a cap should be implemented, a somewhat reasonable amount would be 1/2 of the silvervine needed to buy vip for a month ,as a monthly cap) (not done ... and of course bots need to be dealt to even attempt that)

7. Make sure silvervine cant be changed back to zeny ,except with players (thats done too)

 

This way you have  zeny <> silvervine/vip <> real life money .  Zeny is only used for ingame items(or to buy silvervine) , Silvervine is only used for Cash shop items (you should still always implement events like the amistr bag, given f2p the ability to get thier hands on this staff without exchanging to silvervine first) , and real life money is only used for silvervine.  

 

With this you make sure that zeny doesnt loose all of its value, at least its always worth its fixed amount of silvervine that is worth a fixed amount of real life money, this worked on some mmos quite well

 

Interesting idea. Not quite sure if the MMO I spoke of does this, but I do know that it is rather ruthless when it comes to your in-game assets. Very few MMOs cause players to lose almost everything they had on their person when they lose a battle. This one does, and it seems like its PvP culture and economy grew around that mechanic: there's always a demand for new assets and the materials to build them as a result.

[RealGarion]

 

Interesting idea. Not quite sure if the MMO I spoke of does this, but I do know that it is rather ruthless when it comes to your in-game assets. Very few MMOs cause players to lose almost everything they had on their person when they lose a battle. This one does, and it seems like its PvP culture and economy grew around that mechanic: there's always a demand for new assets and the materials to build them as a result.

 

Well eve online has a very pvp focused enviroment aswell and even encourages in one way or another huge player battle that burn unbelieable amounts of ressources to always make sure players need to farm more and of course kill of a large amount of currency you cant do that with ro so the silvervine to zeny ratio needs to be adjusted quite often actually and that needs to be done very very carfully.

[yoyoninetail]

Mass bans are about as effective as packet switching. Botters just heave out new randomly generated characters once their current accounts are banned.

Yes, mass banning billions of zeny and deleting them from the game is about as effective as changing some numbers which can be extracted from the client and patched in a matter of minutes.

If you cant even grasp such a simple concept, dont try and argue. You're just wasting everyones time.

[TrevMUN]

Yes, mass banning billions of zeny and deleting them from the game is about as effective as changing some numbers which can be extracted from the client and patched in a matter of minutes.

If you cant even grasp such a simple concept, dont try and argue. You're just wasting everyones time.

 

I understand you were eager to "zing" me and make me look unintelligent in front of everyone, but do you really think those bots hang on to the zeny they make?

 

The real money trading scourge has been present in games for well over a decade. I'm sure that early on botters might have suffered losses like that, but they've had time to learn and adapt. Fair bet that getting their bot accounts banned and deleted is about as much of a setback to them as packet switching.

[yoyoninetail]

Yes, most botters dont immediately trade botted zeny to their real accounts via vending/trade/whatever means. Instead they wait for their bots to generate enough to make the risk worth it. You dont want to get banned/wiped for 10m.

Also, when their bots get banned they still have to reinvest time to set up new Warpportal & ingame accounts/email adresses/characters/jobchange.

Never underestimate peoples laziness.

[TrevMUN]

I don't think the real money traders would be so lazy, and I'm sure they make up the bulk of the bot problem. In any online game with tradeable currency, really. It's a business to them, and even in illicit stuff like this, you don't succeed at business by being lazy.

 

I think the most effective thing would be to get the RMTs shut down. That is how you would remove billions of zeny from the market.

[Navy]

Quite frankly if i would be making an MMO today, I wouldn't add any currency. Only trade in items.

[RealGarion]

Quite frankly if i would be making an MMO today, I wouldn't add any currency. Only trade in items.

Thats an actually pretty old concept ...and didnt entirely work as good as you might think ,it does work better than others and just runs into different problems 

[TrevMUN]

There's few MMOs I can think of which didn't have a real money trader/botting problem. One of them that didn't had been absolutely hammered by a hacker gang, where they had duped the in-game currency and rares to astronomical levels. That might be why there was no runaway RMT issue with that MMO, come to think. They probably saw it as unprofitable.

 

One MMO that did very well for itself and didn't have any major problems (save for its discard-and-draw publisher, ugh) was one of the last remaining games to still run on a subscription system. They did have a free trial mechanic, but players in the free trial could not trade currency or even contact other players by mail. To be sure, there was some RMT nonsense going on, but I received maybe one or two pieces of spam via player mail over the course of a year and then it stopped for good for the rest of that game's life. Even after the game finally joined the freemium business model. Botting as a whole wasn't very noticeable in that game because, although it had a massive explorable game world, most of the quests took place in instanced locations.

 

I'm not sure if the way the game's company handled free trials helped keep the RMT botters and spammers out, but I imagine it at least made it less profitable for them since they couldn't generate in-game currency for free.

[OllieTennifing]

I think the problem are the gold sellers. My suggestion is to throw out something that sells for a high high high price, whoever offers for such item, investigate the -_- outta them, I believe aside from a VERY VERY few individuals, you are not supposed to be able to afford something that is like 2 billion.

[Shanedude]

Agreed. A huge part is the gold buying players. There are only 1000 or so active players on restart, investigate the top 10% and make sure theyre legit. If not legit wipe the account of zeny/items and give them the chance to keep their levels. Do these checks regularly to keep it fair for the legit players that donate to WP and keeping server alive and healthy.

 

Edited by Shanedude, 21 November 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[UlrichStern]

If they do want to stop a hyperinflation they have to take several steps:

1. Create an reserve ingame currency that is purchased by real life Money (thats done -> Silvervine)

2. Make sure Silvervine cant be used to by ingame items (thats done too its only useable for Cash Shop items)

3. Make sure you cant change Silvervine back for real life money (yeap done)

4. Make Silvervine tradeable between players (yeap done)

5. Let players use Silvervine to purchase VIP (not done, would be a good idea its not entirely a nessecity, but would allow f2p people to get thier hands on vip encouraging them to play more and keep paying people more engaged ... good working example for that is Eve Online with plex)

6. Make Silvervine buyable with (a fixed and by gm adjustable) amount of zeny (a cap should be implemented, a somewhat reasonable amount would be 1/2 of the silvervine needed to buy vip for a month ,as a monthly cap) (not done ... and of course bots need to be dealt to even attempt that)

7. Make sure silvervine cant be changed back to zeny ,except with players (thats done too)

 

This way you have  zeny <> silvervine/vip <> real life money .  Zeny is only used for ingame items(or to buy silvervine) , Silvervine is only used for Cash shop items (you should still always implement events like the amistr bag, given f2p the ability to get thier hands on this staff without exchanging to silvervine first) , and real life money is only used for silvervine.  

 

With this you make sure that zeny doesnt loose all of its value, at least its always worth its fixed amount of silvervine that is worth a fixed amount of real life money, this worked on some mmos quite well

 

 

WHY AREN'T WE FUNDING THIIIIS??

[LionelFaylard]

Hell, we can soon use paper currency to represent zeny.

 

[OllieTennifing]

WHY AREN'T WE FUNDING THIIIIS??

 

Because that's dumb? It doesn't solve the problem, it creates a new currency. So instead of saying 2.5 billion for a deviling card, they will simply say 1000x 1000 silver vine boxes, now wait, with the new ceiling thats based on a purchase system, it doesn't even have a standard. 

 

The person who wrote that is either lacking on basic economic skills, or is simply a person that buys WP points on regular basis, and would love to see the prices go up.

[Alstruction]

Thats an actually pretty old concept ...and didnt entirely work as good as you might think ,it does work better than others and just runs into different problems 

 

It's not a bad concept, Path of Exile uses this system and it works great. At the end of the day though, even they run into inflation problems which is why they have 3 month temporary leagues. But right now the inflation in RO has gotten way worse in the last week! Every day people keep increasing the price of high end items by tens of millions! Even if you find a good drop it's not gonna matter because if you dont buy the item right then and there some scumbag is gonna increase the price by 25% plus the next day!

[Arkghyom]

It's not a bad concept, Path of Exile uses this system and it works great. At the end of the day though, even they run into inflation problems which is why they have 3 month temporary leagues. But right now the inflation in RO has gotten way worse in the last week! Every day people keep increasing the price of high end items by tens of millions! Even if you find a good drop it's not gonna matter because if you dont buy the item right then and there some scumbag is gonna increase the price by 25% plus the next day!

 

Because there's not enough market power to bring those prices down. Everyone is looking for back doors to get their hands on quick currency instead of working for it. As long as we have a selected few (oligarchy) controlling the prices, don't expect any true competition to plummet those prices down to real values. Maybe a financial hero will save us from this huge mess!

Edited by Arkghyom, 23 November 2017 - 12:37 PM.