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#26 Nirvanna21

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:06 PM

That cooldown reduction for Axe Tornado looks nice but like mildcontempt said it would make Mecha become like RC GX.  This might actually killed the ODB red version as Sea cap can make AT more spammable. Maybe make this hat to reduce Axe Boomerang cooldown instead, as this can be alternative way for Axe Mecha to use Axe Boomerang. That's what I would recommended. I was hoping it would be PS, but that would technically kills ODB hat. And for the +7 bonus, I'm not sure how it will goes, but maybe a small boost like 10% to either axe boom/power swing/axe tornado should work.

 

P/S: Axe boomerang build has limited items diversity. So maybe the cooldown reducs should help a bit. :thx:

 

I could propose it boosting AT and AB.

 

**EDIT**

 

Tweaked Sea Captain's Hat. Now also does Axe Boomerang. Reduced the amount of CD reduction, as I do not want this hat to completely surpass say the Bio5 equivalent.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 07 December 2017 - 12:13 PM.

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#27 RioCyrus97

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:12 PM

I could propose it boosting AT and AB.

That would be nice :p_love: :thx: , the one that you present already looks nice. It just I would prefer +7 bonus to give slight boost of 10% (any mecha skills should work) and the cooldown reduction to other skills so mecha can diversify a bit in its build (prefer axe boomerang) :heh:


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#28 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:13 PM

Ordinary Black Magician's Hat
Increases the damage of ^0000FFChain Lightning^000000, ^0000FFCrimson Rock^000000, ^0000FFEarth Strain^000000 and ^0000FFJack Frost^000000 by 20%.
If upgrade level is +7 or higher,
Matk + 5%
If upgrade level is +9 or higher,
Bypass 30% of Mdef of normal monster and boss monster targets when performing a magical attack.

 

Id like OBMH to stay the way it is right now, minus fixing the glitch with Chain Lightning damage formula maybe. All my OBMHs are +13 or above, this gives at least 36% MDEF bypass, adding on Magicians Gloves will make it 86% or more. Your proposal will nerf it back to 30% MDEF bypass and only 80% with Magician's Gloves.

 

More importantly, all the zeny and real life money I've spent to upgrade my OBMHs, you are telling me that they are all wasted and theres no difference upgrading it from +9 to +10 above. Why penalize the players who overupgraded their items?

:rolleyes:

 


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#29 mildcontempt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:19 PM

Yeah, being able to 193 Axe Tornado is pretty intense. On the one hand I feel like axe mechs are long overdue for a nice buff, but on the other hand I guess invalidating their end game headgear does seem like a weird choice. 

 

Rio does have a good point though, maybe reducing Axe Boom cooldown by one second instead of AT? That way they could 193 axe boom with aftercast delay gear. It wouldn't immediately make the skill OP, and would still require them to gear for it and use the supplemental part dex. 

 

/shrug

 

EDIT: I see the edits since I posted this and like them, but Nirvanna, I'd suggest you change the cooldown reduction to 1 second (as the supplemental part dex already reduces it by 2 seconds) so that they'd have to wear both (sacrifices must be made! Also that part gives aftercast delay anyway) and also you listed 'axe tornado' twice in the description :)

 

This would allow someone to 193 axe boomerang and get 3 axe tornados per second (which is awesome but not OP, IMO). 


Edited by mildcontempt, 07 December 2017 - 12:23 PM.

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#30 Nirvanna21

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:23 PM

Yeah, being able to 193 Axe Tornado is pretty intense. On the one hand I feel like axe mechs are long overdue for a nice buff, but on the other hand I guess invalidating their end game headgear does seem like a weird choice. 

 

Rio does have a good point though, maybe reducing Axe Boom cooldown by one second instead of AT? That way they could 193 axe boom with aftercast delay gear. It wouldn't immediately make the skill OP, and would still require them to gear for it and use the supplemental part dex. 

 

/shrug

 

I reduced AT cd by 0.7, so with a Tornado Axe this would make it 0.3 second cool down, aka 3 attacks per second (which seems pretty good). I could make it 0.5 for 2 attacks per second but would still like more input. It also reduces axe boomerang cooldown by 2 seconds. This means 1 AB per second. The skill damage mod is 35%, which I averaged out to be at max level... 1890% skill mod achievable, if not more depending on weapon weight etc.

 

**EDIT**

 

Changed to 1 second!, Didn't realise there was a 2 second reduction from a set :D


Edited by Nirvanna21, 07 December 2017 - 12:24 PM.

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#31 mildcontempt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:27 PM

I had my post open for a while and didn't see the other comments/changes, I left an edit in my above post though. 

 

0.5 second cooldown is what I was thinking as well, but 0.7 cooldown is fine too. This could potentially still make it better than ODB though because we already have over 100+ axe tornado mods possible from accessories and other gear, so the diminishing return on the ODB makes it that the added spammability is more DPS overall. Regardless, I can dig either approach. 

 

I do think the axe boom cooldown should only be 1 second from the headgear to force using the verus stuff though. 

 

edit: saw your edit! right on! 

 

hahaha ok I'll stop. 


Edited by mildcontempt, 07 December 2017 - 12:27 PM.

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#32 Nirvanna21

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:29 PM

I had my post open for a while and didn't see the other comments/changes, I left an edit in my above post though. 

 

0.5 second cooldown is what I was thinking as well, but 0.7 cooldown is fine too. This could potentially still make it better than ODB though because we already have over 100+ axe tornado mods possible from accessories and other gear, so the diminishing return on the ODB makes it that the added spammability is more DPS overall. Regardless, I can dig either approach. 

 

I do think the axe boom cooldown should only be 1 second from the headgear to force using the verus stuff though. 

 

edit: saw your edit! right on! 

 

hahaha ok I'll stop. 

 

I will make Axe Tornado 0.5, that makes for 2 hits per second. It still makes it a really nice hat but not so powerful as to nullify the Bio5 equivalent etc :U


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#33 mildcontempt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:39 PM

I like that idea. Arquien's necklace gives 1% per 3 levels for AT (so 58% for each, 116% for two) and you can get another 25% from the supplement con part, and an extra 30% from the hat which puts you at a total of 171% -- firmly in diminishing return territory for the hat, especially since the true-howard card gives you up to 60% extra AT damage (I'll only count 1 true howard card since I assume people will be using the Tornado Axe weapon).

 

At that point, spamming 3x a second at 231% definitely beats casting 1x a second at 321% (assuming +12 ODB).

 

At 0.5 seconds it'd be 2x at 231% compared to 1x at 321% which is still technically more but the added bonuses of the ODB can make it the better choice, especially if you land that ATK % enchant and more so if you plan to use PS which you can still get 193 spam at. 

 

edit: BTW you still have AT listed twice in the cool down section of the description, where one of them should be axe boomerang :V


Edited by mildcontempt, 07 December 2017 - 12:41 PM.

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#34 Ashuckel

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:52 PM

I kinda spoke of on TS to make the RG hat kinda like a reflect hat, but it isnt very easy to pull it off without making some very absurd stuff :/ Earth Drive could work too i guess, removing the cast and delay of it.


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#35 Nirvanna21

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:57 PM

I kinda spoke of on TS to make the RG hat kinda like a reflect hat, but it isnt very easy to pull it off without making some very absurd stuff :/ Earth Drive could work too i guess, removing the cast and delay of it.

 

It would be nice to get some input from some regular RG players, but ED could be a nice way to do it.


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#36 mildcontempt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:09 PM

The inclusion of the Anemos shield (350 weight) effectively gives an upward base skill mod of 2,100%; that's higher than Ignition Break with a fire endowed weapon within the 3x3 AOE, currently. 

 

I think reducing it's cooldown by 3 seconds and it's cast time by 100% at +9 is pretty good, and would allow for spamming if one were to stack after cast delay gear. 

 

Having said that, I don't play RG, so no clue what's actually good or not in practice. 


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#37 Nirvanna21

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:17 PM

The inclusion of the Anemos shield (350 weight) effectively gives an upward base skill mod of 2,100%; that's higher than Ignition Break with a fire endowed weapon within the 3x3 AOE, currently. 

 

I think reducing it's cooldown by 3 seconds and it's cast time by 100% at +9 is pretty good, and would allow for spamming if one were to stack after cast delay gear. 

 

Having said that, I don't play RG, so no clue what's actually good or not in practice. 

 

I have changed it to be Earth Drive focused, it allows for 4 ED per second assuming the user has enough ASPD. It should work out since the skill is forced to be Earth property after all~


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#38 Ashuckel

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:17 PM

it gives randel card a purpose :T


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#39 mildcontempt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:20 PM

TBH I didn't know you can reduce global aftercast delay for a specific skill only. Interesting. 


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#40 Nirvanna21

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:25 PM

TBH I didn't know you can reduce global aftercast delay for a specific skill only. Interesting. 

 

I am fairly confident you can, and if not I hope it can be a request made to kRO to do so.


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#41 RioCyrus97

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:30 PM

Hmm the Sea cap looks legit for me. This kind of open up new possibilities for Axe mecha to play. An alternative hat for axe mecha to use until they can use ODB when 170. The cooldown reducs kind of scared me a bit for AT, but I think it should be fine. :no1: :no1:


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#42 mildcontempt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:19 PM

It doubles the current boost to the skill mods and reduces only the mdef pierce effect of +11 or higher. 

 

Overall I'd say it's a boost since 10% extra to the skill mod is quite significant, and since there are so many other mdef piercing sources from gear to cards. I imagine average DPS would be more for the skills in question.

 

/shrug


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#43 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:33 PM

[Poring]
 

It doubles the current boost to the skill mods and reduces only the mdef pierce effect of +11 or higher. 
 
Overall I'd say it's a boost since 10% extra to the skill mod is quite significant, and since there are so many other mdef piercing sources from gear to cards. I imagine average DPS would be more for the skills in question.
 
/shrug

 
It is not a boost actually, lets do an example calculation. Assume it is me or Haseo with Sunflower Boy, Magician's Gloves and +11-14 OBMH, and that our Crimson Rock does 100k damage(which includes all other factors like raw MATK, % MATK, fire magic damage increase, etc). Now keeping all else constant except for Crimson Rock damage and MDEF modifiers, adding 2 x True KK Cards(60% damage increase to Crimson Rock each), and going up against an average monster with 100 MDEF, my result shows this:
 
Formula: Actual Damage = Base Damage x (1 + 2 x True KK CR bonus + OBMH CR bonus) x (1 - MATK Reduction)
Damage with +14 OBMH(current formula): 100k x (100% + 2 x 60% + 10%) x (100% - 9.64%) = 207.828k
Damage with +13 OBMH(current formula): 100k x (100% + 2 x 60% + 10%) x (100% - 11.05%) = 204.585k
Damage with +12 OBMH(current formula): 100k x (100% + 2 x 60% + 10%) x (100% - 12.41%) = 201.457k
Damage with OBMH(proposed formula): 100k x (100% + 2 x 60% + 20%) x (100 - 15%) = 204k
 
As you see, my own calculation shows that Crimson Rock gets nerfed so long as OBMH is upgraded to +13 or above, and it gets worse the higher MDEF a monster has. For your reference, when wearing magicians gloves, +14 OBMH gives 88% MDEF bypass(9.64% reduction), +13 OBMH gives 86% MDEF bypass(11.05% reduction), +12 OBMH gives 84% MDEF bypass(12.41% reduction), and the proposed change would give 80% MDEF bypass(15% reduction).
 
But thats not even the most important point being made here. The key fact is that OBMH has always had bonus per refine level, which has encouraged ppls to upgrade it past +10. Its common to see OBMH at +12 or above. Removing the refine level is a slap in the face of whoever spent billions of zeny or hundreds of dollars to get their OBMH to +13 and beyond. The investment made into over-upgrading OBMH will be completely wasted, I dont even recall Cylinder being treated like this. I know most community headgears' bonus stop at +9 like AHB, but OBMH is a different story and it has been this way since it came into existence. Unless a very good reason is provided, I am afraid this will not make the over-upgraders happy.


Edited by VModCinnamon, 07 December 2017 - 04:08 PM.
Mod edit: Removed response to hidden content.

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#44 mildcontempt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:05 PM

That's only Crimson Rock with a diminishing return on the skill mod from 2x True KK cards... If you calculated it without 2x True KK cards then the new hat would be better, even when compared to the current +14 OBMH (at least using your own formula). 

 

The new hat would buff 3 other skills as well, which would serve greatly to help people level since you would not want to just rely on crimson rock for everything. 

 

Nevermind if people decided they don't want to stack mdef pierce from their headgear but would prefer to use the NCT/NPyramid set (or use a piercing staff with 2 slots :D). 

 

 

 

 


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#45 VModCinnamon

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:13 PM

Greetings,

This is supposedly a suggestion/feedback topic, so kindly keep your postings within that.

If you disagree about something be polite about it and respond in a constructive manner. Resuming the trolling behavior and the aggravated postings will not be tolerated any further.

 

Number of postings have been removed.


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#46 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:26 PM

That's only Crimson Rock with a diminishing return on the skill mod from 2x True KK cards... If you calculated it without 2x True KK cards then the new hat would be better, even when compared to the current +14 OBMH (at least using your own formula). 

 

The new hat would buff 3 other skills as well, which would serve greatly to help people level since you would not want to just rely on crimson rock for everything. 

 

Nevermind if people decided they don't want to stack mdef pierce from their headgear but would prefer to use the NCT/NPyramid set (or use a piercing staff with 2 slots :D). 

 

Yeah, but I have 2 x True KK Cards, and got them legitimately. So I believe I can voice my opinion that, at least with 2 x True KK Cards, the proposed version is worse for over-upgraded OBMH. I understand that some ppls may not want to stack MDEF piercing, it is a matter of choice. But then, for ppls like me who enjoy stacking up MDEF piercing, it is also a perfectly valid choice/playing style that should not be denied.

 

Also as I mentioned, some ppls have already upgraded OBMH beyond +12 going at the added refine bonus for MDEF bypass. It is not fair to compare OBMH to other community headgears like AHB, which have always had bonus capped at +9. Imagine HWHB's effect is modified and will always give 15% Cast Delay Reduction at +9 or above, I dont think those with +12(17% reduction) or +15 HWHB(20% reduction) will be happy to accept such a change.

:)


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 07 December 2017 - 04:28 PM.

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#47 Nirvanna21

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:32 PM

Yeah, but I have 2 x True KK Cards, and got them legitimately. So I believe I can voice my opinion that, at least with 2 x True KK Cards, the proposed version is worse for over-upgraded OBMH. I understand that some ppls may not want to stack MDEF piercing, it is a matter of choice. But then, for ppls like me who enjoy stacking up MDEF piercing, it is also a perfectly valid choice/playing style that should not be denied.

 

Also as I mentioned, some ppls have already upgraded OBMH beyond +12 going at the added refine bonus for MDEF bypass. It is not fair to compare OBMH to other community headgears like AHB, which have always had bonus capped at +9. Imagine HWHB's effect is modified and will always give 15% Cast Delay Reduction at +9 or above, I dont think those with +12(17% reduction) or +15 HWHB(20% reduction) will be happy to accept such a change.

:)

 

It's a fair assessment, but at the end of the day it's one case of a 1% overall damage increase versus a dozen others where it is a hell of a lot more than that. In all other instances it's a buff. It also allows one who has started the game and just reached third class to have a very nice hat to last them until they have the opportunity to get up there with the stronger players, as are all the hats being proposed. That's the point. Overall, it's a buff, and this is not the first case of heavy investments being made redundant, and it will not ever be the last considering on a monthly basis the dice is rolled or even via future updates from new episodes.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 07 December 2017 - 04:34 PM.

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#48 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:00 PM

It's a fair assessment, but at the end of the day it's one case of a 1% overall damage increase versus a dozen others where it is a hell of a lot more than that. In all other instances it's a buff. It also allows one who has started the game and just reached third class to have a very nice hat to last them until they have the opportunity to get up there with the stronger players, as are all the hats being proposed. That's the point. Overall, it's a buff, and this is not the first case of heavy investments being made redundant, and it will not ever be the last considering on a monthly basis the dice is rolled or even via future updates from new episodes.

 

OBMH under the original effect is already a nice hat for those who has just reached third class with or without this change. There have been cases when heavy investments were made redundant, but I definitely dont recall that an important effect of a gear is directly nerfed/removed like this. Even if it has happened in the past, it was more or less a bug/glitch with the gears that was fixed, while OBMH's MDEF bypass bonus per refine level is working as intended. It is not bugged or overpowered, so I fail to see a reason why it needs a change.

 

Yes every month OCP box comes and render heavily invested old gears less desirable, but it doesnt make the old gears useless at all. Simply better and more expensive alternatives have come into existence, while the original effects of old gears remain in tact. Your proposal however, will turn OBMH into a completely different headgear, it is a different story. I would recommend something more lenient, like a brand new community headgear that has the effect as you have proposed, maybe calling it NBMH instead. This way you can make new players happy without completely wasting zeny and efforts made by old players.

 

I am just saying, alternative solutions exist and it is possible to make a compromise without forcing one way or another. The point is to give choices to players, more choices the better.

 

 

 


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#49 Nirvanna21

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:12 PM

OBMH under the original effect is already a nice hat for those who has just reached third class with or without this change. There have been cases when heavy investments were made redundant, but I definitely dont recall that an important effect of a gear is directly nerfed/removed like this. Even if it has happened in the past, it was more or less a bug/glitch with the gears that was fixed, while OBMH's MDEF bypass bonus per refine level is working as intended. It is not bugged or overpowered, so I fail to see a reason why it needs a change.

 

Yes every month OCP box comes and render heavily invested old gears less desirable, but it doesnt make the old gears useless at all. Simply better and more expensive alternatives have come into existence, while the original effects of old gears remain in tact. Your proposal however, will turn OBMH into a completely different headgear, it is a different story. I would recommend something more lenient, like a brand new community headgear that has the effect as you have proposed, maybe calling it NBMH instead. This way you can make new players happy without completely wasting zeny and efforts made by old players.

 

I am just saying, alternative solutions exist and it is possible to make a compromise without forcing one way or another. The point is to give choices to players, more choices the better.

 

However it's not a different headgear. It reduces the overall obtainable MDEF in place of more skill damage.


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#50 mildcontempt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:15 PM

I'll drop the pretense LY. I think you're just speaking from the perspective of what benefits you, and I think that's short-sighted.

 

In your above example you posit the change should not be made because of a 2% damage boost it gives you if and only if you are using 2x True KK cards and are willing to over upgrade the headgear.

 

In every other case, the proposed new form of the headgear would be better (and cheaper to get the full effect out of). 

 

If we are talking about options and choices, I believe the new version would benefit more people giving them better damage output and efficacy and would even benefit you for the other 3 skills that don't have a huge skill mod from another source (like True KK). 

 

 

 

 


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