Community Created Headgears Final Review - Page 3 - Proposals and Suggestions - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 4 votes

Community Created Headgears Final Review


  • Please log in to reply
325 replies to this topic

#51 LordYggdrasill

LordYggdrasill

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2830 posts
  • LocationWelgaia
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:15 PM

However it's not a different headgear. It reduces the overall obtainable MDEF in place of more skill damage.

 

And then you get why I ask the original question, why it is absolutely necessary to favor skill damage over obtainable MDEF piercing. It is entirely possible to avoid this by just making a new headgear that achieves your proposed effects without touching the original effects of OBMH.

 


  • 0

#52 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:19 PM

And then you get why I ask the original question, why it is absolutely necessary to favor skill damage over obtainable MDEF piercing. It is entirely possible to avoid this by just making a new headgear that achieves your proposed effects without touching the original effects of OBMH.

 

The point of this is to re-work with stuff that exists. It's why I merged the AHB. Red tape can be the death of projects, removing it as much as possible is the best way to end up with a more efficient result. Warlocks have the most MDEF bypassing options of all of the magic base classes, and more are intended on coming in. Anything that could be done before can still be done in an effective way with the exception of your one scenario, that assumes the users have billions of zenies worth of gears.

 

This one scenario, with which literally a number of players I can count on one hand have access to, in a singular situation and that should mean that everyone else gets shafted as a result? I get you could make another headgear, but that would defeat the purpose of what this project was about, well... half of it.


  • 1

#53 LordYggdrasill

LordYggdrasill

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2830 posts
  • LocationWelgaia
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:20 PM

I'll drop the pretense LY. I think you're just speaking from the perspective of what benefits you, and I think that's short-sighted.

 

In your above example you posit the change should not be made because of a 2% damage boost it gives you if and only if you are using 2x True KK cards and are willing to over upgrade the headgear.

 

In every other case, the proposed new form of the headgear would be better (and cheaper to get the full effect out of). 

 

If we are talking about options and choices, I believe the new version would benefit more people giving them better damage output and efficacy and would even benefit you for the other 3 skills that don't have a huge skill mod from another source (like True KK). 

 

It is not short-sighted, it is a legitimate argument. I've also mentioned it in my earlier post that, many ppls have already spent billions of zeny and hundreds of dollars upgrading their OBMHs to +12 or beyond, for the added effects of MDEF bypass. In this case, it is not just what benefits me, it is to whoever that have overupgraded OBMH. 

 

If the refine bonus is completely removed, it makes all the investment wasted. If MDEF bypass bonus isnt desirable, then perhaps, make a different compromise by adding something else(MATK%) as refine bonus. At least, give +10 and above upgrade level a meaning to exist at all.


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 07 December 2017 - 05:23 PM.

  • 1

#54 mildcontempt

mildcontempt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 3421 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:26 PM

I don't think it is legitimate, I think it's purely from a point of self-interest -- but whatever, we're going around in circles. 


  • 1

#55 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:39 PM

https://forums.warpp...k-magician-hat/

 

Answer in here Lord Ygg.


  • 0

#56 LordYggdrasill

LordYggdrasill

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2830 posts
  • LocationWelgaia
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:54 PM

You are still missing the point, this is not a majority vs minority game. I am trying to make a proposal so that you can make some ppls happy without sacrifices from the other sides, while your proposal is one way or another. I am talking about A and B, you are talking about A or B. But whatever, it seems that I was right that any attempt to make compromises is meaningless as it will eventually evolve into full fledged drama.


  • 1

#57 mildcontempt

mildcontempt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 3421 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:57 PM

Ohhhh I'd hardly call this full fledged drama.

 

Anyway, I voted and will repost here for posterity: 

 

Soft yes.

 

 

(I don't really care either way, but do think the new change would be overall better than the old version, but if it stayed the same then it wouldn't bother me. I would not like it to be buffed though since WL is quite strong now).


  • 0

#58 Alanthier

Alanthier

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1431 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:58 PM

Autumn headband should reduce/remove the delay that Ice trap has as well, because it's a completely useless trap in it's current state, since it has the EXACT same damage calculation as fire trap, just a different element but has a 1 second reuse time, which is so retarded.


  • 2

#59 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:06 PM

You are still missing the point, this is not a majority vs minority game. I am trying to make a proposal so that you can make some ppls happy without sacrifices from the other sides, while your proposal is one way or another. I am talking about A and B, you are talking about A or B. But whatever, it seems that I was right that any attempt to make compromises is meaningless as it will eventually evolve into full fledged drama.

 

I am not missing your point. But this is a voting situation. If the mass wants it I will commit, if they don't then they are happy with it's current iteration. I explained part of what this proposal was about. It was about the using the existing community headgears as the base. The project has always slightly moved over time but at the end of the day, it was about making fully functional hats, changing the directions of a good portion of them was to accommodate the fact that so much has passed since their introduction that they have become irrelevant (or in some cases were ALWAYS irrelevant). As the person who has been spear heading this project for the past year, I have the guidelines to which I based this all on and will not budge on them. I personally think the iteration proposed is a fair compromise. It meant that anyone with this hat received the full effects at +9, and in addition the hat in general received a massive boost to skill damage. I get you want to either have your cake and eat it too, or you want to propose an entirely new hat. Neither of those sit right with me personally, hence the thread that was made.

 

Autumn headband should reduce/remove the delay that Ice trap has as well, because it's a completely useless trap in it's current state, since it has the EXACT same damage calculation as fire trap, just a different element but has a 1 second reuse time, which is so retarded.

 

Let me test to see if it is something that CAN actually be reduced.


  • 0

#60 mildcontempt

mildcontempt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 3421 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:17 PM

As an aside, the divine guard hat with Earth Drive will be really good... and when used with a RTE could be able to do 100k damage pretty easily with an Anemos shield. Though you'll be element locked in a rather unfavorable way. 


  • 0

#61 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:08 PM

Autumn headband should reduce/remove the delay that Ice trap has as well, because it's a completely useless trap in it's current state, since it has the EXACT same damage calculation as fire trap, just a different element but has a 1 second reuse time, which is so retarded.

 

Sorry Alanthier, I tested the skills and the results aren't good.

 

Fire trap has no delay and triggers underneath the target no matter what. Ice Trap cannot be placed underneath the target like fire trap can, takes longer to blow up too, however it has nothing to do with something an item can reduce. It would need to be changed by kRO :X


  • 0

#62 SuAvE

SuAvE

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 272 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:THORSUCKS

Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:45 PM

can u make 1 for Rebel and K/O? they don't have this type of HG for them right? :hmm:


  • 0

#63 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:47 PM

can u make 1 for Rebel and K/O? they don't have this type of HG for them right? :hmm:

 

Not making hats from scratch sorry.


  • 0

#64 SuAvE

SuAvE

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 272 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:THORSUCKS

Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:11 PM

ohh ok np  :no1:  hope this project will be implement on live server next year  :heh:  


  • 0

#65 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:43 PM

ohh ok np  :no1:  hope this project will be implement on live server next year  :heh:  

 

I may get back to you in this one, just gotta find out some information.

 

**UPDATE**

 

So I need to get the exact details organized but I have a plan. The plan would involve three steps.

  1. Fix/Update all the existing community hats
  2. Propose 4 new hats
  3. Make them all available via permanent quests (class based), available at level 100

All the existing hats will be fixed/updated based on the community input, I am aiming for the end of the year to have this portion done. It may not include everything on the count of needing kRO to fix some stuff (Chain Lightning, Spell Fist (if possible that is), Fire Trap and Ice Trap (assuming they still don't exist yet).

 

The four new hats will be Warlock (Abnormal Black Magician Hat), Doram (Human Ear Beret), Kage/Obo (name tbd) and Rebel (name tbd). The Warlock hat will be available via quest, the old version will not be. You can also trade in the older version should you please, however some people may choose not too for the sake of their investment.

 

The new hats will have at LEAST 3 months of wait time sadly, but the quicker we have some options for them the better.

 

So brainnnnnn stormmmmmm.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 07 December 2017 - 09:17 PM.

  • 0

#66 blackCROSSCY

blackCROSSCY

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1864 posts
  • LocationSG
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Valkyrie

Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:58 PM

RK's one actually feels like a huge nerf because windcutter is useless, while sonic wave still does pretty good damage. -1.5cd on windcutter doesnt do much cuz on 0.5s cd, its still a crap 350% damage skill. The only way it works is to entirely remove the full 2second CD to justify removing sonic wave. Otherwise, better just remove sonic wave 1sec cd instead. That way sonic wave becomes a pure aftercast delay skill and opens up a new fun way for physical RKs to join parties.

 

Additional explanation:

Black Ribbon is currently still useful for RKs after 170 because of the sonic wave bonus. If you remove the sonic wave bonus and just turn it into the current -1.5sec cd windcutter, it will become entirely obsolete when the RK turns 170, since windcutter damage sucks (350% base). It's actually much worse for the headgear this way. So all in all, I suggest:
A. Remove windcutter cooldown entirely (-2seconds). Making it fully spammable will make this headgear attractive, it is still going to be much lower damage than RC or RG's VP, and honestly many of our server's RKs are going green with envy looking at jRO RKs going fidget spinning too.

OR

B. Instead of removing windcutter cooldown, remove sonic wave's 1sec fixed cooldown, leaving it with only its 1second aftercast delay. This way black ribbon still remains the best sonic wave headgear, and opens up a new dimension for physical rks to join in parties doing sonic waves with minstrel. 


  • 0

#67 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:19 PM

RK's one actually feels like a huge nerf because windcutter is useless, while sonic wave still does pretty good damage. -1.5cd on windcutter doesnt do much cuz on 0.5s cd, its still a crap 350% damage skill. The only way it works is to entirely remove the full 2second CD to justify removing sonic wave. Otherwise, better just remove sonic wave 1sec cd instead. That way sonic wave becomes a pure aftercast delay skill and opens up a new fun way for physical RKs to join parties.

 

Additional explanation:

Black Ribbon is currently still useful for RKs after 170 because of the sonic wave bonus. If you remove the sonic wave bonus and just turn it into the current -1.5sec cd windcutter, it will become entirely obsolete when the RK turns 170, since windcutter damage sucks (350% base). It's actually much worse for the headgear this way. So all in all, I suggest:
A. Remove windcutter cooldown entirely (-2seconds). Making it fully spammable will make this headgear attractive, it is still going to be much lower damage than RC or RG's VP, and honestly many of our server's RKs are going green with envy looking at jRO RKs going fidget spinning too.

OR

B. Instead of removing windcutter cooldown, remove sonic wave's 1sec fixed cooldown, leaving it with only its 1second aftercast delay. This way black ribbon still remains the best sonic wave headgear, and opens up a new dimension for physical rks to join in parties doing sonic waves with minstrel. 

 

I may very well just make it so it covers all three, but we will see. It was an odd hat in all honesty since it kind of covered 3 skills with pure damage. But we got a little time to tinker with ideas and the hats can all be tested.


  • 0

#68 mildcontempt

mildcontempt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 3421 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:28 PM

Switching the Wind Cutter cooldown to Sonic Wave is cool too, and it would give phys RKs the utility of a proper ranged attack. 

 

Is there a theme in mind for the Rebel or Kage/Obo hats?

 

Rebels are ridiculously strong already tbh =((( 


  • 0

#69 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:33 PM

Switching the Wind Cutter cooldown to Sonic Wave is cool too, and it would give phys RKs the utility of a proper ranged attack. 

 

Is there a theme in mind for the Rebel or Kage/Obo hats?

 

Rebels are ridiculously strong already tbh =((( 

 

For the RK hat would people prefer:

  • Wind Cutter + Ignition Break
  • Wind Cutter + Sonic Wave
  • Sonic Wave + Ignition Break

As for kage/obo, never played the class so no idea, but I know of a certain Pokeman who does. Rebels are very god damn powerful. I was thinking of doing something with Slug Shot and Dragon Tail, since Rebel's AoE is completely top notch.

 

As for Doram, I was thinking a hat that gave some awesome stuff for having the final skill in a tree. Final healing skill could give a 200% bonus to healing skills, making Shramp good. Magic final skill could give 100% fixed cast time reduction for Stem Spear, to make that as spammable as PP is. No idea about phys since they are OP as -_- but maybe we could throw some love their way that doesn't destroy their damage (maybe some hit bonus of some kind or an auto cast?).


  • 0

#70 fuyukikun

fuyukikun

    Disney Prince in Disguise

  • Members
  • 12247 posts
  • LocationIndonesia
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos, on hiatus

Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:37 PM

Sorry Alanthier, I tested the skills and the results aren't good.

 

Fire trap has no delay and triggers underneath the target no matter what. Ice Trap cannot be placed underneath the target like fire trap can, takes longer to blow up too, however it has nothing to do with something an item can reduce. It would need to be changed by kRO :X

fire trap has no aftercast delay, but it has unreduceable animation delay that limits you to put 2 traps per second.

 

as of ice trap, it CAN BE put underneath the target as fire trap does. however, ice trap has worse unreduceable animation delay. it limits you to put 1 trap per second.

 

i think the problem is the animation time when the ice trap blows. when ice trap blows, you need to wait for 1 sec before another ice trap can be put on the same cell.

 

however, if you put ice trap on different cell, it will bypass the unreducable animation. this can trigger trap dancing, but it is hard to execute.


  • 0

#71 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:38 PM

fire trap has no aftercast delay, but it has unreduceable animation delay that limits you to put 2 traps per second.

 

as of ice trap, it CAN BE put underneath the target as fire trap does. however, ice trap has worse unreduceable animation delay. it limits you to put 1 trap per second.

 

i think the problem is the animation time when the ice trap blows. when ice trap blows, you need to wait for 1 sec before another ice trap can be put on the same cell.

 

however, if you put ice trap on different cell, it will bypass the unreducable animation. this can trigger trap dancing, but it is hard to execute.

 

icic, maybe kRO could fix the animation delay bit.


  • 0

#72 SuAvE

SuAvE

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 272 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:THORSUCKS

Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:04 PM

For the RK hat would people prefer:

  • Wind Cutter + Ignition Break
  • Wind Cutter + Sonic Wave
  • Sonic Wave + Ignition Break

As for kage/obo, never played the class so no idea, but I know of a certain Pokeman who does. Rebels are very god damn powerful. I was thinking of doing something with Slug Shot and Dragon Tail, since Rebel's AoE is completely top notch.

 

As for Doram, I was thinking a hat that gave some awesome stuff for having the final skill in a tree. Final healing skill could give a 200% bonus to healing skills, making Shramp good. Magic final skill could give 100% fixed cast time reduction for Stem Spear, to make that as spammable as PP is. No idea about phys since they are OP as -_- but maybe we could throw some love their way that doesn't destroy their damage (maybe some hit bonus of some kind or an auto cast?).

 

im more favor on sonic wave + IB  :p_love:

 

on doram( physical ) what about the skill lunatic carrot or scar of tarou? make their cd short something like that  :heh:


  • 0

#73 LordYggdrasill

LordYggdrasill

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2830 posts
  • LocationWelgaia
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:31 PM

I may get back to you in this one, just gotta find out some information.

 

**UPDATE**

 

So I need to get the exact details organized but I have a plan. The plan would involve three steps.

  1. Fix/Update all the existing community hats
  2. Propose 4 new hats
  3. Make them all available via permanent quests (class based), available at level 100

All the existing hats will be fixed/updated based on the community input, I am aiming for the end of the year to have this portion done. It may not include everything on the count of needing kRO to fix some stuff (Chain Lightning, Spell Fist (if possible that is), Fire Trap and Ice Trap (assuming they still don't exist yet).

 

The four new hats will be Warlock (Abnormal Black Magician Hat), Doram (Human Ear Beret), Kage/Obo (name tbd) and Rebel (name tbd). The Warlock hat will be available via quest, the old version will not be. You can also trade in the older version should you please, however some people may choose not too for the sake of their investment.

 

The new hats will have at LEAST 3 months of wait time sadly, but the quicker we have some options for them the better.

 

So brainnnnnn stormmmmmm.

 

Sounds fantastic, thanks. As I said, if everyone can sit down and have a civil conversation, it is possible to make a compromise that everyone can be happy, or at least, no one will get upset. Hope the proposal will go through and WP will implement the changes

:)
 


  • 0

#74 Nirvanna21

Nirvanna21

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9534 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:49 PM

Thank Suave, it was their idea that made it a feasible option.
  • 0

#75 blackCROSSCY

blackCROSSCY

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1864 posts
  • LocationSG
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Valkyrie

Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:05 PM

If people don’t think that it’s too much, I would prefer having the wind cutter and sonic wave version. Simply so the headgear stays fully relevant for viable alternative play styles when there is old rune circlet.

edit: for physical doram, maybe help them out a little in the aoe department? They are extremely op in single dps, but damage boost in lunatic carrot beat could help them in leveling and clearing mobs. Something like +30% or +50 carrot beat damage.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 07 December 2017 - 11:23 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users