202 replies to this topic

[Apocryphos]

Elements were the primary source of damage, with the change a few question's come up:

1. Does the change take into account the old nerf's like physical/magical damage reduced over time?

 

2. If not, will this change be enough to undo the nerf regarding physical/magical damage reduced over time?

 

3. Can you just make it so affects element's only? I thought the previous nerf's were bandaid fixes until you could reduce elements over time.

 

Players are definitely going to be harder to kill with this, which can lead to a poke for points scenario again for EW, that we finally got out of.

Edited by Apocryphos, 31 January 2018 - 01:35 PM.

[Agitodesu]

That is true, splitting or nerfing the elemental damage was the primary goal, but due to technical difficulties reducing only patk/matk was the option. Now that elemental damage can be reduced, having the patk/matk increased back to what it was before could be nice.

 

Considering you can just tp out whenever, killing players with good gear is not even possible unless they just afk in ew.

Edited by Agitodesu, 31 January 2018 - 01:38 PM.

[zirothos]

so i can confirm summoner/invoker/ and anti air work fine. but random shot is not working for the reduction

 

[stiffyliffyriffy]

Back to poking for points in Emporia Wars. Players now are almost unkillable. Unless the Island hopping time is increased significantly they can just hop  and poke for points. The whole aspect of Emporia War being PVP based went down the drain.  

 

Edit: Either reducing the number of islands  in emporia war or increasing the timer for island hopping to 30-40 seconds would be appropriate to counter act the reduction in damage. Then maybe people will be killable again. Unlike BSQ emporia war still allows players to spam health potions/items besides having heals from mages.   

 

 

Edited by stiffyliffyriffy, 31 January 2018 - 02:31 PM.

[zirothos]

what they should do now is almost remove the damage reduction on basic damage and only applies them on element one.

 

Or make it less heavy.

 

 

EDIT: i think we almost have a good damage output there. just some few modification. and it could be perfect.

 

after some test for sure, atm it a bit extreme but i can feel we almost have what we need to make a better pvp world in damage relative. Now i just need to wait for the emporia and see how it goes

Edited by zirothos, 31 January 2018 - 01:56 PM.

[blacshift]

it's a shame to see that from a supposed solution they create many more

Now killing a magician is mission impossible for other classes

I wonder if they do battle trials of magicians against other classes

so they can see what the reality is. or they do not take much importance and throw the patch.

for the emporia as they say it will only be for points

if the other guild has full magicians it is victory assured

I have another doubt that is off the subject if my eyes deceive me but because I see other players with an atk speed that much higher than normal

Who would answer me about that?

[zirothos]

 

it's a shame to see that from a supposed solution they create many more

Now killing a magician is mission impossible for other classes

I wonder if they do battle trials of magicians against other classes

so they can see what the reality is. or they do not take much importance and throw the patch.

for the emporia as they say it will only be for points

if the other guild has full magicians it is victory assured

I have another doubt that is off the subject if my eyes deceive me but because I see other players with an atk speed that much higher than normal

Who would answer me about that?

 

 

 

Well, i can only say. you only see the bad thing of the change.  this is part of a bigger picture, but you only see what in from of you.

 

They are testing and changing every week. Yes the change atm is a big to heavy. but it a good path on greater good.

[Agitodesu]

If you have 5 fps with 300% atk spd, its slower than someone with 60 fps at 300% attack speed. Your eyes aren't deceiving anything, buy a good computer. That's what also coolsam mentioned before, when in battlesquare @ 15v15 with 300 things going on, it's difficult to roll properly because fps drops your attack speed making you have to combo slower to match, otherwise you would be just spamming x slowly instead of rolling.

[Carinus]

After trying out PvP with these new changes, I can clearly say that these nerfs are too harsh. Now summoners and invokers deal so little damage that their damage can be labeled as insignificant. Class balancing shouldn't result in removing DPS from the game.

 

As an invoker, I swear using single shot is almost better than using diffusion cannon/double shot now.

 

These nerfs made killing other players too hard in PvP. Most mages build tank and they have healing skills so it is only natural that people are complaining about how hard it became to kill mages, especially invokers since they have more healing skills. This is a fair complaint however, the solution to this should not be nerfing the healing skills more and more. When people asked for nerfs on the x attack of invoker, their argument was that invoker is a support class so its damage shouldn't be too high. Now the very same people who came up with this argument are asking for nerfs on healing skills. These recent nerfs literally destroyed the DPS aspect of invokers and the supporting aspect will be destroyed as well if the healing skills get nerfed too. And as a result of these, invoker will become useless. Class balancing is supposed to be about balancing the classes, not destroying the currently stronger ones.

 

Besides, before this patch one good summoner was enough to kill a stacked invoker. So if you ask me, the real problem we are dealing with right now is the harsh nerf on DPS.

 

Most mages build tank so even if you nerf the healing skills more, the mages will still survive for very long as long as the DPS of these three classes remain like this.

 

As I said at the beginning, I find these latest nerfs too harsh. I understand and agree with the need of nerfing the DPS of summoners, invokers and destroyers but this is not the right way to do it. Weakening these classes this much will result in PvP sessions where no one dies. I don't think that this is what anybody wants. At the very least, people should still be able to kill each other in PvP. But these nerfs make it almost impossible.

 

What I'd suggest is changing the percentage of damage drop. 70% is way too harsh.

 

I'd also like to say that these nerfs turn Emporia War into a battle of questing again. I thought the main aim of the latest Emporia changes was to make the system more PvP than RNG. However, no one will be able to kill each other in Emporia with these nerfs so people will try to win by doing quests and the system will become RNG again.

 

As for class balancing, it is obviously necessary but I personally don't think that it should be done by only nerfing the strong classes and making all classes weak. Instead of that, the currently weaker classes should be improved. Of course there will be nerfs during the process but nerfing the stronger classes too hard will result in making them weak too. At the end, we will have 10 weak classes if the class balancing continues like this. Is this really what we want? I'd personally prefer having 10 strong classes than having 10 weak classes.

Edited by Carinus, 31 January 2018 - 02:57 PM.

[Coolsam]

If you have 5 fps with 300% atk spd, its slower than someone with 60 fps at 300% attack speed. Your eyes aren't deceiving anything, buy a good computer. That's what also coolsam mentioned before, when in battlesquare @ 15v15 with 300 things going on, it's difficult to roll properly because fps drops your attack speed making you have to combo slower to match, otherwise you would be just spamming x slowly instead of rolling.

It's exactly what I said before in an older topic regarding attack speed. It's one part stat, one part lagg or lack thereof.

Sometimes even with better PCs you can still fall victim to lagg in extreme cases due to the client itself. Although sometimes you just gotta give it a second to stabilize.

[zirothos]

It's exactly what I said before in an older topic regarding attack speed. It's one part stat, one part lagg or lack thereof.

Sometimes even with better PCs you can still fall victim to lagg in extreme cases due to the client itself. Although sometimes you just gotta give it a second to stabilize.

 

i would say not just in pvp but in expert mode too,  and i'm not that far from the server. and i have a Gaming monster desktop

 

Revious/aram are 2 zone that lag alot in expert mode and with lighting effect or the rain of fire effect

Edited by zirothos, 31 January 2018 - 03:16 PM.

[bluelokura]

Thanks for making mages unkillable in 1vs 1

[qwewewewq]

Remove heals in pvp.

[easykill1215]

The damage reduction over time is not working on Destroyers.

EDIT: Tried on all the other ones and they are working. Only Random Shot didn't get nerf.

Wow interesting.. Maybe it was never intended to give random shot a reduction in the past xD the xspammer people complained most were always only invoker and summoner. They have enough cc to keep spamming x for about 10s meanwhile destroyer only has about 3s cc from Flashbang to spam x which is quite short already. Sentinels even spam x longer and abuse xspam more than them. So I think destroyer's xspam wasn't a problem to be nerfed or it will unbalanced the 1v1 pvp side as well


And now people are talking just like what I said before the patch, too harsh nerf. Invoker and summy suddenly only deal 30% of their old dmg. This should be done slowly like begin with soft nerf then slowly find the right percent of dmg reduction.

It would be much better if you don't nerf these x-spammer classes and just increase the dmg of non xspammer classes with an ele dmg multiplier.

Or if you still want to nerf them, find the right percent of reduction so the class will actually still gain benefit from their xspam skills, not like dealing the same dmg as without the skill. I can see 3 problems with the ele dmg reduction. One is that the time to reach the maximum reduction is too too fast, for 0.7s you can only shoot like 3-4 times to reach the maximum reduction already. One is that the reduction is too much, it should come to a point that the player still can get benefit from the skill they're using compares to not using it. And one last maybe is that the time to recover and the time to reach maximum reduction should be the same



Edit: let me repeat again that nerfing xspammer but then buffing non-xspammer because people are complaining that they're immortal won't be a good move, since the xspammer will be very underpowered if you do so. So whether nerfing xspammer and not buffing non xspammer or buffing non xspammer and cancel the nerf for xspammer

Edited by easykill1215, 31 January 2018 - 11:44 PM.

[Popcorn]

The damage reduction itself has been implemented by the former devs already years ago for PvP with the exact same values before the element damage came on top. This clearly shows that the former devs' itention was already to remove the OPness of the x-spamming classes in PvP. We just added the damage reduction for the archer class and summoner because they left it out and finally extended this damage reduction to the element damage with the exact same values (except for double shot which the former devs wanted to reduce to -70% instead of -50% and it was implemented like that before). 

 

In the past people came up with the idea to remove the element system completely from PvP (including one very well known veteran player). Then the damage reduction would still be there because this was work of the former devs and is not done by us. We decided to keep the Element System instead of removing it. 

 

With extending the damage reduction to the element system (which btw has only been left out because the latest team just didn't care when implementing otherwise the element system never would have been implemented as it was) we just followed the path of the devs who decided that a damage reduction for the "x-attack alteration" is needed to remove the OPness of the x-spam classes because they already noticed that x-spam classes are starting to dominate the PvP.

 

Other classes already have been buffed with their PvP (and PvE) damage multipliers. 

 

Regarding BSQ, no one said we are already done.

Just to mention: First it was the Archers which you wanted to be changed because they ran around in circles with the flag and nobody was able to catch them. Now it's the Invoker class running arround in circles with the flag and nobody is able to take them down. As I said we are not done yet and we are aware of the "flag problem". I am just excited which class will be the next running in circles and not able to do whatever to them.

 

 

[Onyzer]

Regarding BSQ, no one said we are already done.

Just to mention: First it was the Archers which you wanted to be changed because they ran around in circles with the flag and nobody was able to catch them. Now it's the Invoker class running arround in circles with the flag and nobody is able to take them down. As I said we are not done yet and we are aware of the "flag problem". I am just excited which class will be the next running in circles and not able to do whatever to them.

 

About BSQ, here is a suggestion I made some time ago which didn't get answered a lot: https://forums.warpp...idea-bsq-flags/

It was a good idea in my opinion, I would like some more opinions about that, which is why I'm bringing that up again.

 

About the classes which hold the flags in BSQ. I guess before it was Archers because the MS cap wasn't there yet. So they had more MS than most of the other classes which made them very hard to catch. Now that everyone has the same MS, it's about how long you can last. And Magicians are the best at it, and they also have Blink which is a very good escape.

[Vossel]

Not sure if its just me but i havent dropped a single Orange coin so far. is this intended?

[Popcorn]

Yes, you're right. I have to admit that I put the wrong end date in. I will ask for a server restart as soon as someone is in the office. Sadly a drop can't be changed without a short server restart of about 10~15 mins. max.

Thanks for reporting this to us.

 

 

[Coolsam]

About BSQ, here is a suggestion I made some time ago which didn't get answered a lot: https://forums.warpp...idea-bsq-flags/
It was a good idea in my opinion, I would like some more opinions about that, which is why I'm bringing that up again.

About the classes which hold the flags in BSQ. I guess before it was Archers because the MS cap wasn't there yet. So they had more MS than most of the other classes which made them very hard to catch. Now that everyone has the same MS, it's about how long you can last. And Magicians are the best at it, and they also have Blink which is a very good escape.

About your suggestion; It could work if BSQ got the same treatment as Emporia for Kills vs Missions point wise and filtered out absent classes. Hit and Run still poses a risk of getting caught out and it would lead to closer games.

[Popcorn]

As for the current changes:

 

We are not done with adjustments to the Emporia Wars game mode. Same for BSQ.

Please try the changes out this weekend's Emporia and give us feedback (please stay civil). 

 

@Coolsam: mission should be filtered out for absent classes already in BSQ the same way it is for EW.

 

[Onyzer]

@Popcorn: Yes the missions are being filtered correctly. I had a question about this filter by the way. What happens if you get a class-related quest but before you complete it there is not this class anymore in the enemy team? (If someone leaves or crashes)

 

@Coolsam: I actually didn't think about applying a multiplier on the kills. That's a great idea! Can you post it on my topic? Wouldn't be fair to get the credit for this idea.

[Popcorn]

 

and just by curiosity how much is the real rate atm

 

You get 4 rewards at the end - like it is for the drop for every reward the chance is re-rolled which means that if I would tell you for example the drop rate is 25% it does not mean you have to get one every time because you get 4 items you have to get one of them if the chance is 25%. That's just an example to explain how it works.

 

The actual drop rate of Mutisha's Cloak in the normal mode is 0.3169%.

[Popcorn]

@Popcorn: Yes the missions are being filtered correctly. I had a question about this filter by the way. What happens if you get a class-related quest but before you complete it there is not this class anymore in the enemy team? (If someone leaves or crashes)

 

 

Sadly the mission runs until it regulary ends (because the system does not recognize that a player left at this point of code) but does not appear again.

[Yuumikitsu]

In my opinion, nerfing the damage from the X spam discourages people from playing those classes if it's done in a big nerf like this one. Instead of looking for options to nerf the damage of the X spam classes, why not buff the element damage of those classes that doesn't really stand a fair chance against them in most cases by like 50%? That would make the tank meta a bit less viable, players that are max geared could actually die in most cases and it wouldn't discourage people from still playing the X spam classes in PvP if that's their favorite playstyle. Since it's just PvP sided I feel like changes like these could be more appropriate. It's also fun to look at big numbers and seeing them disappear by about 70% just feels like a stab in the chest.

 

This is just my opinion on the matter I wanted to add.

[zirothos]

You get 4 rewards at the end - like it is for the drop for every reward the chance is re-rolled which means that if I would tell you for example the drop rate is 25% it does not mean you have to get one every time because you get 4 items you have to get one of them if the chance is 25%. That's just an example to explain how it works.

 

The actual drop rate of Mutisha's Cloak in the normal mode is 0.3169%.

 

omg that low. XD is there a possibility to rise it to 1% or 1.5%?