250 replies to this topic

[Wyndor]

So what ive gathered from this is everyone should do these things to counter one job that is literally spamming one button:

 

1.  Full ranged reduction set to counter 1 job, while virtually every other job is dealt with by the same reduction set.

2.  Level characters low vit to be sac'd as cannon fodder to simply counter 1 job.

3.  Hide in pneuma n such and never be in cast range to counter 1 job.....

4.  "Step up potting game" which basically means run auto potter to counter being 2 shot.

 

Before anyone chimes in no i don't care how much it costs because they are also gods at MVPing.  I find it amusing any other spammable spell in this game can simply be countered by just pounding white pots.  Yet you guys go to such greath lengths to defend a spammable ranged gfist.  No one with a brain is pretending it can't be countered, the problem is it takes 10 times the effort to counter it than it does any other job and they are pounding 1 button to accomplish this.

 

 

[Kazuuya]

Wyndor kinda does have a point Spoon, and the materials for AB aren't nearly as hard to farm or as expensive as you'd like people to believe. When the best MvP class is the best PvP class by far it should at the very least warrant a second look. Pre-trans was all about monks and trans is all about chemists. Both classes are busted beyond comprehension; the only saving grace is that trans is finally here and the rest of the classes in the game have the damage or utility to fight back if played properly, geared properly, are prepared for the engagement, and outnumber the chemist.

 

I'm not one for nerfing / breaking classes but we've got to be realistic here folks, something has to happen with the current state of acid bomb. I could care less about its PvE damage, but in PvP / WoE they need to address the damage reduction of the skill itself against players, the fact that the skill breaks gear, and the cooldown. If none of the above happens than WP needs to introduce reduction gear to better defend against it. It's bad enough that chemists reign supreme in the MvP department, but when a biochem shows up in PvP/WoE/GD there has to be some type of counter play for the average player aside from respawning / b winging.

 

Monks were bad enough when it came to griefing pre-trans but chemists are cancerous. It's silly how many times i've seen chemists winging in GD one shotting people who are leveling, and had to come hunt them down myself. At least monks have a cooldown and a three cell cast range. It isn't much but at least there is some form of counter play that doesn't require a woe party or high gears to deal with.

 

With that being said AB doesn't bother me personally since i'm always equipped to deal with it, but GR/DR/CK, a shield, ranged reduction, and FCP shouldn't be a requirement for players to be able to enjoy this game and this update. It was a slap in the face 10 years ago, and it's a slap in the face now for players to spend countless hours leveling up just to be outdone in all respects by a class that can afk level and bomb their way to 99 in a couple of days lol. I'm surprised people are actually defending AB to begin with.

[Mahinahehe]

SOOOOO much crying in this thread.

 

Did you do ANY research? Do you know what gear it takes to get the best damage output on a biochemist? Do you know the current best in slot weapon for DPS? Do you know what cards to put in that weapon? Does your guild know how to properly stack so DD low vit are in the front sac'd and NOT getting picked off by the CRAAAAAAZY ACID BOMB???

 

I play Sacrifice Paladin in WoE. Let me say this. I've seen 1 vit hwiz get 1 shotted by bomb. However with 1 vit you're not taking that much damage. Just enough to kill the wizard. If you're set up properly to where I can sac this wizard, you will not die and bombs will be wasted on you. Support classes MUST play their role and do it well. This includes blinding mist and pneuma. I have a question...if biochemist are so over powered, why are guilds with the same amount in WoE losing? Because they aren't doing their job. They are leaking out of stack and getting picked off, dispell spammed, and deleted. I suggest the people in this thread complaining about acid bomb watch some videos. Do some research. Move some classes around. The guilds who are succeeding in WoE spent months and months doing MvPs the rest of the server just COULDN'T do apparently to get the gear and zeny needed to do this. Your failure to prepare does not require a sacrifice of effort on our part. Trans classes were announced many many months ago. How much preparation have you done? How many videos did you watch? Not enough if you need the producers to nerf around your wants and needs.

 

TL;DR FAILURE TO DO THE RESEARCH AND STUDY THE MECHANICS OF THE GAME DOES NOT WARRANT A NERF.

THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING YOU FROM BOMBING PEOPLE TOO UNLESS YOU FAILED TO PREPARE FOR THIS UPDATE. PERIOD.

 

This is a very valid point. Support class should do their roles. Everyone can't be heroes all at the same time. "Nerf X!! Nerf Y!! Nerf Z soo OP!" Instead of whining, how about learning the game? However.....

 

 

I'm going to make a suggestion on how Acid bomb should be handled. It's going to be crazy.

 

Staff, make characters and test it. This is what you need to do.

 

You need to make a knight with 100 total  vit, and gear it with an immune, 2 rosaries with alligator card, a poo hat and a thara guard.

 

you need to make a biochemist with 80 str and around 76 int. The weapon you want to use is a +10 3 archer skel carded elemental sword or a hurricane fury

 

The conditions for the test should be as follows. 

No pnuema - you can't pnuema on an ME during a gvg, so anyone saying "deal with it with pnuema" is only talking about small scale scrappy fights. Magic damage is dangerous and therefore pneuma is usually not an option.

 

Magic strings - make a bard with 99 base int and 99 base dex. 

 

Try to outpot the damage with ranked slims. 

 

Take note of how much damage one single acid bomb does, realize that every other class in the game has a lower hp pool. Note that acid bomb in a real setting is not going to be the only source of damage. 

 

This is where you need to ignore the community and test it for yourself. If you need help knowing how to replicate the gear of average players, or what kind of situations bombers would be hurling damage in, ask.

 

Ultimately, the moderators and game admins should do their OWN testing before implementing any of these nerfs/patches/updates. There should always be a QA before anything gets rolled out. Failure to do so, well, see what happens? The community goes bananas. 

[bigbanks]

acid bomb in pre-renewal was fine. in renewal meta, it is too OP. it is meant for balance around 3rd classes and we just dont have that right now. i dont see a problem with it in pvm and would not mind a hard after delay, either. against players, the skill needs to have 50% or more reduced damage as it makes no sense with the damage multiplier. either that or bring back the original formula for acid bomb that was based off of int and target's vit only until 3rd classes come out.

[ElenaGilbert]

damn these ppl crying about acid bomb. there are many counters. 90 total vit sniper can survice an acid bomb, im sure you all can. there are many ways. first of if you are on a priest and getting bomb, your positioning is trash and deserve to die to bomb. 2nd of all, does your performers doesnt use a skill called song of lutie? i was getting a total of 17k hp on my sniper. come on im a damn sniper. 3rd do your pally use a skill called sac? like seriously the front liners should always be sacced, and if u die to bomb because u were not sacced then blame your guild for being trash. this is woe, you woe with your guild, it supose to be a guild effort. tell your guild to play each class properly then u wont have this problem.

 

 

you guys are also running chemist, why dont YOU target KEY classes like our performers to prevent us from spamming the op skill acid bomb? and also, slow grace? most anoying skill ever pls nerf, reduce so much spamability on alot of skills. when you guys are able to handle that, then you will realise that acid bomb are fine the way it is now.

Edited by ElenaGilbert, 02 April 2018 - 06:54 PM.

[Xellie]

yeah but Acid bomb here isn't the same as it is on the other revo servers soooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kureiya]

Fabric has been removed from the raffle and most people's "stock" has been severely impacted from bio 3. On the issue of ROT and zeny bots, well just like the raffle, these situations exist because of a lack of planning and preparation by production.

No this happend because staff and studio didnt see it before. U want to spam bombs when each one cost nothing. U can stack 30k bombs on hours with no problems. So i need to wait 10 sec to sp restock? I farm blue herbs amd strws too? Why i cant spam me azura?

[Kureiya]

damn these ppl crying about acid bomb. there are many counters. 90 total vit sniper can survice an acid bomb, im sure you all can. there are many ways. first of if you are on a priest and getting bomb, your positioning is trash and deserve to die to bomb. 2nd of all, does your performers doesnt use a skill called song of lutie? i was getting a total of 17k hp on my sniper. come on im a damn sniper. 3rd do your pally use a skill called sac? like seriously the front liners should always be sacced, and if u die to bomb because u were not sacced then blame your guild for being trash. this is woe, you woe with your guild, it supose to be a guild effort. tell your guild to play each class properly then u wont have this problem.


you guys are also running chemist, why dont YOU target KEY classes like our performers to prevent us from spamming the op skill acid bomb? and also, slow grace? most anoying skill ever pls nerf, reduce so much spamability on alot of skills. when you guys are able to handle that, then you will realise that acid bomb are fine the way it is now.

Dude u think woe is the only place where bombs r used? What about a bomber troeing acids of 150k without any delay. How i can fight them with me 10 seconds delay in front of a mvp? Also using ur meaning we can have azura free from delay any way u can counter it with sacri and guard there is no problem right? Lets go we go to have free bombs and free azuras from delay to make this game fair and good to play for this boy

Edited by Kureiya, 02 April 2018 - 10:42 PM.

[JackSparrow22]

The source of all problems Renewal system, Cast Time, Skill Delays, Dmg differences,everythinks... if you ask me go change to server systems like to Classic Server. Everything is fixed. We like to classic server cast times.I thinking There's not player in love to renewal systems. 

 

That's all   

 

And believe me when comes to 3rd classes. A lot of people around me will leave this server... as in the euro & russianRo 

[CharlieLovesU]

wanted to add my two cents since I haven't been playing RO for years like everyone else probably has. From my perspective, Acid Bomb is just utterly broken.

 

Arguments for it not being broken usually include

 

-It has direct counters

-It costs a lot

 

 

But looking at the ability its basically

 

1- Low risk, very fast high output burst damage. 

2- basically zero cooldown

3- hardly any cast time

 

 

It's downsides are

 

-It costs a fair amount in zeny to keep acid bombing.

 

 

 

 

The ability basically out competes a class who is basically entirely built around burst damage. Like G Fist/Asura is balanced because of its vulnerability after and melee range of the ability itself. 

 

 

Whereas acid bomb has basically no drawbacks besides "you can pneuma it" and it costs a -_- ton. You can safety wall g fist. that doesn't mean it would be balanced if it had no cooldown or sp recovery lock out. 

 

 

It's a joke in PVM at the very least. for mvping an acid bomber can out dps a very well geared g fist monk without much effort whatsoever. let alone the combo of a monk in MS and an Acid Bomber.

 

 

 

The ability needs a cooldown. I know its probably been this way for years, but its a joke to me at least. An ability that dishes out that insane of damage needs a cooldown. It needs at least a 3-5 second lock out after casting. At LEAST. fixed as well. 

[gustavotri]

Great argument, but we want a balance of classes do not want to completely disable the biochemistry of the game but rather to make other classes also enter the game.

 

 

Edited by gustavotri, 03 April 2018 - 03:19 AM.

[442170720001042503]

put cooldown plis whit strings they can easy spam more than 1 ad per seconds.lol it's a joke

[Imidan]

damn these ppl crying about acid bomb. there are many counters. 90 total vit sniper can survice an acid bomb, im sure you all can. there are many ways. first of if you are on a priest and getting bomb, your positioning is trash and deserve to die to bomb. 2nd of all, does your performers doesnt use a skill called song of lutie? i was getting a total of 17k hp on my sniper. come on im a damn sniper. 3rd do your pally use a skill called sac? like seriously the front liners should always be sacced, and if u die to bomb because u were not sacced then blame your guild for being trash. this is woe, you woe with your guild, it supose to be a guild effort. tell your guild to play each class properly then u wont have this problem.

 

 

you guys are also running chemist, why dont YOU target KEY classes like our performers to prevent us from spamming the op skill acid bomb? and also, slow grace? most anoying skill ever pls nerf, reduce so much spamability on alot of skills. when you guys are able to handle that, then you will realise that acid bomb are fine the way it is now.

 

^ point taken. this is what i was tryna say. all comes with preparation. unless, some has OP items @_@ now that is a diff story. lel

[Ryuuz0]

Nerf everyclass just bcs u cant deal with it, seems logic
You cant Oneshot prof,paladin,lk, and some other classes
People just cant deal with it thats why they gonna cry about everything

Edited by Ryuuz0, 03 April 2018 - 04:31 AM.

[Nugeki]

 

 

 

 

 

Defending Aura only works after you recast it AFTER you  sac. They need to fix the skill so that it does not require the recast of defending aura. Also Shield Reflect needs to not trigger a Knights Bowling animation reset, allowing them to spam it non stop. 

 

 

 

If they make it so that I do not need to recast Defending Aura after I resac people, Bio Chemist are fine, until they need a nerf.

Edited by Nugeki, 03 April 2018 - 05:18 AM.

[gustavotri]

Nerf everyclass just bcs u cant deal with it, seems logic
You cant Oneshot prof,paladin,lk, and some other classes
People just cant deal with it thats why they gonna cry about everything

 

You only see the interest of your guild as a whole not to nerf a skill in which you have a large number of biochemists.

 

Here we are discussing about the damage calculation and delay applied on the skill that is broken in the current situation we are not in class 3 and the damage too high !!

[Ryuuz0]

 

You only see the interest of your guild as a whole not to nerf a skill in which you have a large number of biochemists.

 

Here we are discussing about the damage calculation and delay applied on the skill that is broken in the current situation we are not in class 3 and the damage too high !!

 

"You only see the interest of your guild"

makes 0 sense, everyone can use 4+ chems in woe , the dmg is not op, there are so many ways to counter it.
Just accept it and try to counter it

[joelita]

it's unbelievable how only determine guild is not complaining about the Over power items, and the damage that is being caused even the classes being with total reduction. . . I wonder why ? stop and think. . . (nodelay + grf edit + dupping + OP Equip, autopot and etc ...)

[iROWorld]

I think this is more an issue of the community not being ready for trans and lack of experimentation of gears, builds, and best practices. Allowing people to stat reset after such a big event like trans might be needed instead of nerfing or buffing any particular classes first. I think staff needs to do their own research/testing instead of listening to people whining that don't necessarily play the class they are talking about and know very little about the mechanics involved. Last time staff made a change based solely on people complaining on a thread they ended up making a situation where you were able to farm from 90 to 99 trans in a matter of hours. Remember when people complained about 100m+ exp/hr? Well, now its like 300m+ exp/hr in certain areas I won't mention due to a change just to stop people from whining on a thread. All I am saying is that you can make a situation worst just by making changes based on complaints instead of testing.

Edited by iROWorld, 03 April 2018 - 06:37 AM.

[Spoon]

I think this is more an issue of the community not being ready for trans and lack of experimentation of gears, builds, and best practices. Allowing people to stat reset after such a big event like trans might be needed instead of nerfing or buffing any particular classes first. I think staff needs to do their own research/testing instead of listening to people whining that don't necessarily play the class they are talking about and know very little about the mechanics involved. Last time staff made a change based solely on people complaining on a thread they ended up making a situation where you were able to farm from 90 to 99 trans in a matter of hours. Remember when people complained about 100m+ exp/hr? Well, now its like 300m+ exp/hr in certain areas I won't mention due to a change just to stop people from whining on a thread. All I am saying is that you can make a situation worst just by making changes based on complaints instead of testing.

12 hours 1-99 trans, everything is fine (never should have touched jup, y'all made the leveling situation worse than what u were trying to fix). Leave biochem as it is or u will just end up breaking more stuff. Adapt to the meta, don't demand a nerf when it's not needed

Edited by Spoon, 03 April 2018 - 06:58 AM.

[Ryuuz0]

Nerf sinx the dmg is too op
Ah ye and nerf ninja u get oneshotted by killing stroke
Ah and remove energy coat way too op.
Ah ye and remove fiber lock
Defender is also op pls nerf
Nerf everything so we can quit.

Tbh just dont change anything its just 3-4 people crying about it just wait for the balance patch with 1 sec cast delay

[joelita]

Nerf sinx the dmg is too op
Ah ye and nerf ninja u get oneshotted by killing stroke
Ah and remove energy coat way too op.
Ah ye and remove fiber lock
Defender is also op pls nerf
Nerf everything so we can quit.

Tbh just dont change anything its just 3-4 people crying about it just wait for the balance patch with 1 sec cast delay

1 skill destroys all other abilities above the name is Dispell. 3-4 ? is the entire server that is complaining.

[Ryuuz0]

Entire server? Seems like u werent good at math. The only people who complain are low lvl noobs with no woe experience

[joelita]

Entire server? Seems like u werent good at math. The only people who complain are low lvl noobs with no woe experience

can talk as much as you want, will nerf even the staff would be too dumb not to listen to the players, the game has no more players +/- 250 ... if not listening to the community asking for the removal of items in the War and nerf in the AD among many other things (given that it is extremely nescessario), well the server will close because is not even fun any class dies for 1 AD. kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[iROWorld]

can talk as much as you want, will nerf even the staff would be too dumb not to listen to the players, the game has no more players +/- 250 ... if not listening to the community asking for the removal of items in the War and nerf in the AD among many other things (given that it is extremely nescessario), well the server will close because is not even fun any class dies for 1 AD. kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

^ People like this are the reason bad decisions are made. They claim the whole server is behind their opinions and give the staff an ultimatum to make a change they want or else something bad will happen.

 

Seems like it is pretty even when it comes to people who want and dont want nerfs when it comes to this thread. Staff do your own testing/research and make sure you don't break the game with any updates you decide on.

Edited by iROWorld, 03 April 2018 - 07:42 AM.