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Round table discussion regarding WoE & general PvP combat


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#1 Cordite

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:54 AM

Greetings All!
 
Cordite here, and we want to talk PvP with everyone. Currently, we're looking into improving WoE participation and general PvP play, so we are asking for our players general feedback regarding WoE, and what would encourage more players to actively participate? We are also looking to discus general PvP play, and how players feel about partaking in PvP. Everyone is welcome to give their input, whether it would be suggestions or grievances. We are looking to collect information that we can potentially use to improve PvP as a whole.
 
Some points we are looking for
  • What difficulties have our players experienced getting guildmates to participate in WoE?
  • What would make active combat more rewarding during WoE on an individual level?
  • How convenient / inconvenient is it to partake in PvP in general?
  • How difficult is it to keep your guild supplied under the current server environment?
Please note we will venture into addressing additional platforms for PvP in a later post, for now we are looking to address WoE here and general PvP combat flow. We look forward to your feedback. Thank you.
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#2 ZeroTigress

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:26 AM

Last in-depth discussion for reference: https://forums.warpp...changes-cm-aid/
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#3 Usurper

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 12:38 PM

Make a Battle Grounds system with useful rewards like coins in exchange for a random piece of Shadow Gear. Players get coins win or loose but the winner gets more.

Last time I PvP'd, I was up against a sorc that was an expert in position bugging, you guys should look into it seriously because it negates skill and equipment you spent o much money or time to get.

Edited by Usurper, 12 October 2018 - 12:41 PM.

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#4 zx56vb

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:58 PM

1.What difficulties have our players experienced getting guildmates to participate in WoE?
Reward=nothing, even god items<OCP gears

2.What would make active combat more rewarding during WoE on an individual level?
Buff god items, give guild members who has castles some cash shop items as reward
Waiting for KRO's new woe system

3.How convenient / inconvenient is it to partake in PvP in general?

1 shot 1 kill for most of cases, some skill like GOH you just have no way to counter it.

If you really want to make everyone go PVP, add an NPC inside each map which gives player buff,(all+10, agi up, bless, FCP), perhaps restore all supplies used in PVP after you quit the map; so at least players can play PVP for free otherwise nobody wanna waste their supply in PVP.
Might give Cool-down time to supplies like silms in PVP map.



BTW, please understand that the most serious problem in WOE is cheating
Unfortunately this is beyond wp's ability to counter it unless you have something like game guard to against it.

 

Finally I found something that WP can really do to WOE:

Ban the god damn unfrozen shadow set or at least disable it when equip with tao card in WOE/PVP, so Sura and SC need to think about how to counter it.


Edited by zx56vb, 15 October 2018 - 12:29 AM.
Mod Edit: Merged double posts

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#5 MikeWolf

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 02:03 PM

Can you guys add a battleground NPC for PVP in eden? That would make easier for people to access. Also a save/storage NPC inside battlegrounds would be nice.


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#6 Ashuckel

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 02:05 PM

  • What difficulties have our players experienced getting guildmates to participate in WoE?


    While gear costs are to be expected and keep the market going, some of the consumables are either just f***ing expensive and plainly suck to make a decent stock for every woe. The cost per woe can get really high and very unsustainable for a lot of ppl if they want to perform at a high level.

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#7 MikeWolf

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 02:09 PM

Totally agree with this

 

  • What difficulties have our players experienced getting guildmates to participate in WoE?


    While gear costs are to be expected and keep the market going, some of the consumables are either just f***ing expensive and plainly suck to make a decent stock for every woe. The cost per woe can get really high and very unsustainable for a lot of ppl if they want to perform at a high level.

 

 


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#8 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 02:59 PM

Woe potion boxes = the main thing needed. And castle treasure give -_- quantities of them, would be nice if they were added to WPS token exchange list. Quite a few other things could be done to castle treasures. Some skills can target people in portal invulnerability, which is dumb. Skills like Banana Bomb and harmonize do this, think a couple others do, would be nice if they followed to same protocol as others and didn't work while someone should be invincible from portal invulnerability. And you can hit people who are banana bombed and it won't make them stand, should make them stand up IMO.

Dorams should be player race.

Pretty sure something up with them woe 1 god piece drop rates being lower than they used to be. Also the box RNG seems weird, not sure why I've got 16 of 1 kind of piece and 1 of another, seems uncommonly odd RNG.

Adding some sort of individual reward system to members for WoE would be nice too. Maybe via achievement system or something.

Cheating is probably biggest though, that and getting rid of duped items. Random groups of people showing up with everyone wearing a GTB or etc when they didn't have them the week before, lol.


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#9 Diskence

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 03:25 PM

What difficulties have our players experienced getting guildmates to participate in WoE?

 

Getting one shotted, people don't know what to do, not enough incentive to WoE, WoE is not at a good time.

 

I really don't know who the WoE 1 time is suppose to cater. It used to be WoEs were always 7-9 PST and that was the best time for USA players. Now it's at 4-6pm which doesn't work for anyone that has work, it doesn't cater most of Asia as that's really early in the morning. I really don't know who this time is good for as most of us still playing since long ago have aged from High School to working individuals. No one has time for this on a weekday. 

 

How convenient / inconvenient is it to partake in PvP in general?

 

 

Inconvenient. It is hard to know when people are inside a PvP room and you have to walk over into the inn, go into PvP, check the rooms and realize no one is inside and just leave.

 

How difficult is it to keep your guild supplied under the current server environment?

 

 

Supplies are very expensive, at least in Chaos. Foods are expensive, WoE Whites are hard to come by. Would be nice to have some new ways of obtaining them i.e. a battleground specifically for WoE supplies or make them drop from castles.

 

Demi Human/Player reduction caps at 75%

Ranged reduction caps at 75%

 

Do you even know what you are talking about? While everyone is trying to reduce the damage taken because we are in an one-shot-kill meta, you are trying to put a cap on reduction at 75%? You will never live an EB, you will never live a 4x True KK'ed CR, you won't live a few CL at how fast it can be spammed, you won't live a bio5'ed TC, you will die to probably 2-3 picky pecks, you will literally die to anything.

 

~75% reduc was okay back in pre-OCP era but now that we have experienced OCP and the incredibly longevity of the server. Everyone is running around with 2xKiel, MoT, 100% armor pen, FBH, Fenrir. Putting a reduc cap at 75% means everyone will die to anything that moves and you will make an even greater barrier between new players and veterans as veterans will WoE regardless and new players will definitely not be joining because no one enjoys walking in and instantly flying out.

 

Being able to achieve 100% reduction means nothing, WoE is a team event, if you can't get a chaser to masq the target then your team is at fault.

 

@Ash please teach your friend how to WoE and not make ridiculous comments, Campitor actually reads what he says.

Dorams be considered player class

GOH/TC HP damage be included into reductions, like how DB was

 

 

Should've been done long ago

 

Min cooldowns applied to skills, 0.2seconds for AoE, 0.1seconds for single target

 

 

Or just fix NDL instead of making a whole new system and probably breaking it.

 

Make a Battle Grounds system with useful rewards like coins in exchange for a random piece of Shadow Gear. Players get coins win or loose but the winner gets more.

Last time I PvP'd, I was up against a sorc that was an expert in position bugging, you guys should look into it seriously because it negates skill and equipment you spent o much money or time to get.

 

I think this is a really good idea, a BG with good rewards would be fun. BGs were fun while it lasted if you can prevent the win-trading/people just trying to get coins.

 

 

  • What difficulties have our players experienced getting guildmates to participate in WoE?


    While gear costs are to be expected and keep the market going, some of the consumables are either just f***ing expensive and plainly suck to make a decent stock for every woe. The cost per woe can get really high and very unsustainable for a lot of ppl if they want to perform at a high level.

 

 

Agreed, supplies suck. Trying to look through the market and find a good amount of it sucks even more. 


Edited by Diskence, 12 October 2018 - 03:31 PM.

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#10 Cordite

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 05:06 PM

Thank you all for your suggestions so far, please keep them coming, we are looking for as many angles to look at as possible so that we may be able to formulate a plan to potentially improve PvP. There have been a few very good suggestions for a start point already, please feel free to join the conversation.
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#11 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 05:09 PM

Having woe pots and other items that are free for use in pvp and only work there would be nice for the pvp room, kinda sucks if you have to spend tons of zeny to pvp.


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#12 mlmf

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 05:33 PM

Can we get a npc warper near kafra and inns to warp us to the specific agits instead of the guildmaster supplying us with memo-ed priests/acos. And Maybe some woe points earned by participating and additional points for every kill/kill-assist, and some goodies we can buy using these points.
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#13 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 05:36 PM

Yeah, would also be nice if the kafras offered teleporting/heals to non-vips as well. Kinda excludes non-vip players from woeing as easily


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#14 lorenz1375

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 05:45 PM

First of all id be glad if you reply to the agit lords message thing


1) people get one shot a lot and people keep on saying there arr cheaters here and there (which i wont deny btw)

2)to make woe rewarding on an individual level is quite tough you can atlesst make people earn kvm per hour/minutes of time in the castle? (Howd that even work lol), unless you have agit lords -cough-

3)Pvp is too far and too unnoticeable. Illegal servers get to have something like announcement when someone enter the pvp room hence notifying people. pRO had megaphones which people in the pvp can use to taunt others into going there. You guys can atleast make a more noticsble/convenient way of accessing it. (Note: noticeable, because kvm fights (battleground) is very convenient but is really unnoticeable heck barely anyone even knows such an easy access tab exists

4) very difficult. Only viable source of supply is the rather consistent treasure box drops from woe TE or a rich man that is able to burn through thousands of supplies for nothing but bragging rights and for the sake of the guild's existence at all. Droprates from woe 1 and 2 are downright trashy

Edited by lorenz1375, 12 October 2018 - 05:48 PM.

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#15 LittleCastiel

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:17 PM

disable bug cell, 3rd party program, macro's on pvp and woe


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#16 Ashuckel

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:18 PM

@ken the damage reduction cap of course demands not only for such system to be put in place, but a whole overhaul on how much damage you can deal, it basically put's it in line and makes it similar to how other mmos/rpgs treat damage scaling/reduction. As said, in an ideal world. Sadly there's a 99,99% chance it wont ever apply to RO.

chill your ass bro :U


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#17 Nirvanna21

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:20 PM

  • Caps on resistances to prevent dumbassary
  • Cooldowns on skills to prevent abusers of NDL
  • Cooldowns on consumables to slow down abusers of autopotting
  • Hardline consequences for cheaters
  • Everyone is player race

Go.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 12 October 2018 - 06:34 PM.

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#18 Varignon

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:29 PM

WoE is enjoyable if there are no cheaters,3rd party programs that make the WoE and PvP boring. During WoE you can see players spamming pots that can't be done through the normal hand, these are the results of 3rd Party Programs which are macros and autopots. Within the duration of 1 second, their life will be full, and as clear in their status in their heads, it's like a star shining and shimmering.

 

So I suggest, that put gameguard to disable these kind of programs. 


Edited by Varignon, 12 October 2018 - 06:30 PM.

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#19 Scrappy51

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:39 PM

How about Guild House's that a guild could rent that comes with a free inn ,castle warper and maybe guild storage?

Payment method would be via ticket that a guild could acquire from Castle Treasure boxes.

A bit ambitious but whatever, just wanna throw it out there.


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#20 ChakriGuard

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:45 PM

I've not WoE'd since February 2018, so I'm not sure if inputs would be valuable. Though, I am sure it will be very relevant until now.

 

1. OCP issue.

     

Below is my last WoE I participated and last WoE video. OCP gears such as BSG and Mob as well as Bio5 headgear and lots of MvPs and Gods were already in this time. I still tanked. Yes I used Tao but i also believe that my enemies also used Gods and MvPs and other powerful items. If I lived and tanked and still could kill players in WoE, then WoE was (or is) still tank-able and play-able. Thus, OCP is definitely not a cause of un-enjoyable WoE. Not to mention, OCPs are cheap and readily easy to get. When everyone has it, then no one is OP.

 

 

Solution: N/a as nothing is broken.

 

2. Cost of supplies

 

It gets very expensive. Ranked slims dont work anymore due to high nukes. What works right now is WoE Whites and Yggs. 

 

Solution: Make them cheaper by adding more supplies. Whatever method you want to do, flood the markets with supplies. You can as well give free limited WoE supplies that can only be used during times in WoE realms only. These supplies are character bounded by the way and will be expired after WoE ends.

 

3. Give better incentives in WoE

 

WoE is hard. It is much harder than PvM. Why would anyone want to WoE to get beaten, -_- on, and humiliated when they absolutely get nothing in return? Compare WoE to PvM, PvM is so easy that almost anyone can do it now as long as they play the PvM classes. More over, PvM is much more rewarding than WoE. Here you get the answer why people dont WoE. WoE is a team fight, this means, every class will offer something in the table. Compare to PvM? All I see now is GX, Ranger, WL, and Gen. Other classes are unicorns. That's a discrimination.

 

Solution: Instead of giving Shadow Pieces or good rewards in easy spammable and abusive events, how about you make them WoE rewards instead? You know what. When we get Class Shadow Gears, make them drop in WoE castles only. How about you give Mob or other OCP gears high in demand as WoE rewards? Check OPC requests thread. See what people are asking then put them in WoE. Rotate WoE rewards every week. For example, this week gives Medical scrub, next week gives, Evil Dragon Armor, and so on.

 

4. MvP cards

 

New players wont catch up old players who are loaded with MvPs. MvPs are different from OCPs because MvPs are very expensive while OCPs are cheap. Equality creates balances and harmony.

 

Solution: Disable these god damn cancerous cards already. What we get in PvM should stay in PvM. Bring only courage and team work in WoE and have a fair fight to claim awesome rewards.

 
5. Class unbalances
 
Most people die in WoE, mainly to Sura. Yes Sura is a WoE class. It's meant to be OP. Ranger and GX wont do well in WoE? That's great because they're already doing too well in PvM. How PvM suras out there? They're almost unicorns. If Sura and other WoE classes suck in PvM, at least, let them be OP in WoE. If you want to nerf Sura, then man up and be fair, go ahead and nerf GX and Ranger and Gen in PvM first. In fact, if you give make WoE rewards interesting, PvM folks may have to make a new Sura in order to participate in WoE to claim powerful rewards that are not readily in PvM aspects, that is, for example, Class Shadow Gears.
 
Solution: N/a. There is nothing to fix here. When we disable MvPs and Cheaters, most classes are balanced and are not even overpowered-ly broken.
 
6. Cheats
 
Well ... this is self-explanatory. Train GM team to actually spot cheats.
 
tl:dr
 
1. Give OCP items as rewards in WoE
2. Free but limited WoE supplies that are character bound and will be expired after WoE ends. These supplies are usable only during WoE time and WoE realms.

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#21 DarkOrinus

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:03 PM

you know, you guys could just make the necessary stuff for woe, woe boxes for pots, speeds, any other usual items people make use of and the like to be able to be obtained in easy in-game means.

 

luxury items like, foods materials, item catalysts like cobwebs, genetic stuff materials and etc. in which people are still relying on bots to hunt be in cash shop yknow  :hmm: but at least make it for a reasonable price, so if cheapskates want to hunt it for themselves then so be it

 

this makes it for rich glucose guardians to supply woe in a very reasonable way, all the while not tampering pvm means to get them, as they are still very hard to acquire sometimes

 

edited:

 

easy obtainable necessities. at the top of my mind, just directly buying them off. or a relatively higher rate in investment that makes it the common thing you get


Edited by DarkOrinus, 12 October 2018 - 07:13 PM.

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#22 lorenz1375

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:08 PM

So am i the only one here who use woe violet pots as.. main potting item for woe?
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#23 Diskence

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:13 PM

@ken the damage reduction cap of course demands not only for such system to be put in place, but a whole overhaul on how much damage you can deal, it basically put's it in line and makes it similar to how other mmos/rpgs treat damage scaling/reduction. As said, in an ideal world. Sadly there's a 99,99% chance it wont ever apply to RO.

chill your ass bro :U

 

*shrug* then the whole thing should be said. A full scaling system would make sense and not bits and pieces thrown out. 

 

you know, you guys could just make the necessary stuff for woe, woe boxes for pots, speeds, any other usual items people make use of and the like to be able to be obtained in in-game means.

 

luxury items like, foods materials, item catalysts like cobwebs, genetic stuff materials and etc. in which people are still relying on bots to hunt be in cash shop yknow  :hmm: but at least make it for a reasonable price, so if cheapskates want to hunt it for themselves then so be it

 

this makes it for rich glucose guardians to supply woe in a very reasonable way, all the while not tampering pvm means to get them, as they are still very hard to acquire sometimes

 

Not a bad idea to be honest or make it something only VIPs can get. Would make more incentive for people to VIP. Like when re-start had the VIP only +10 all stats buff. 


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#24 lorenz1375

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:15 PM

...can you guys atleast make the hp sp restore option of the kafra in woe maps available to mini vip?
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#25 Beanbean

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:21 PM

I think my biggest issue is one shots / GTB / Tao cards. Everything else is manageable, and in the past GTB / Tao weren't as much of an issue because there'd be 2-3 suras on the server that ran them and could one shot everybody, which you could look out for. Now there's ~20-30 suras that one shot everyone and there's legitimately no amount of hp you could have / gear you could have to stop it. 


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