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Round table discussion regarding WoE & general PvP combat


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#51 deforte

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 02:10 AM

my bet: double the HP, lower the damage receive and the resistance thingy for WOE

 

also a special title like RK Killer/Slayer and others as a reward for PVP after killing RK for milliion times xD


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#52 Xplay4eva

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 03:00 AM

Mostly I like PVM but I do have a couple of things to say although it probably applies to Classic more so because the damage dealing ability in Renewal is Yikes. Maybe good for both servers?

 

 

 

suggestion for PVP:

 

make 2 rooms

 

1 map that is Gods/MVP enabled

and another map which disables Gods/MVP 

First I will second this for either Classic or Renewal.

 

On Classic for PvP, the big thing I can think of to improve would be to make a list of healing items and completely disable them.

Then I would consider some kind of good but not too good rewards for PvP.

And finally possibly make a sign someplace that could keep track of how many people are inside PvP when you look at it.


Edited by Xplay4eva, 13 October 2018 - 03:01 AM.

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#53 Icarus05

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:20 AM

Ok finally, lets start this !

 

1.OCP problems.

OCP is a double edge sword, makes a noob goes rambo with few pennies and also a kinda "Pay to win" or "malacash". There are some OCP that are ok but some are just too godly to use. like Dragon claw helm and BSG. I haven't been updated on what OCP is the craziest but these OCP just make the def set obselete.

 

2.Dorams

We got two option and its either make doram as ​demi human​ or make them as player race like fixing that bellum bug

​or second option: Complete revision of the class like currently happening on jRO

 

3. let's revise and make the woe more modernized..that will suit for everyone.

idk if camp remembers the agit lord thingie of sir Lorenz but we can have a twist..In a certain mobile game, we have a "woe" (but its caled territory war) and basically we declare a territory as ours then we will fight over it until we get 30,000 points which can be get by conquering certain places). now every after territory war, we are rewarded with some golds and "contribution" and we have an auction where we will bid a certain item for a certain amount of price..this is a good zenny ink btw.

 

I think we should do this way:

 

About the auction for guild wars: Auction can be held daily around night time. Players will bid a certain item for a certain amount of price, the price of it will go higher and i think its a good zenny sink..so what we can bid on here...here's my suggested items.

>WOE potions

>Ygg seeds and Ygg Fruits

>​GUYAK PUDDING ​(its a glorious consumable..i love it)

>Bellum equipments

>Woe equipments

>OCP or we can make it as OCP fragments then it can be "crafted" through npc

>EDP

>And other important things for the players

 

Those items above are just available at their localized Auctions (meaning, other guild members outside the guild having an option cannot bid)

Now..there's another Auction and that will be a worldwide option (probably like this: All geffen agit owners have a right to participate in the Geffen city Auction).

Possible items for this

>OCP fragments

>God item materials

>Treasure box

>WPS

 

Everyone can bid on this(i mean the agit owners). i think we can solve zenny sink and rewarding system for WOE..

 

Now, the items will become valuable depending on the ranking of the guild Via Agit Lord.

 

4. probably, let's make god items great again.

 

5.actions against cheaters xD

 

 

 

 

 


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#54 Stephanie

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:28 AM

-Little to no rewards. only the Guildmaster and his friends are benefiting in this game feature. not to mention we burn supplies/consumables

 

I beg to differ. Castle drops do not even cover 1% of the cost in supplying a WoE guild -- it's as if they're almost worth nothing aside from OCAs and a couple of Treasure Boxes here and there. You do realise that guild leaders dedicate their time to PVM solely just to fund for supplies, right?

 

This is coming from TE perspective though, WoE 1/2 might have a different situation.


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#55 S207

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 08:49 AM

  • Caps on resistances to prevent dumbassary
  • Cooldowns on skills to prevent abusers of NDL
  • Cooldowns on consumables to slow down abusers of autopotting
  • Hardline consequences for cheaters
  • Everyone is player race
Go.

 

 
 

Ok finally, lets start this !
 
1.OCP problems.
OCP is a double edge sword, makes a noob goes rambo with few pennies and also a kinda "Pay to win" or "malacash". There are some OCP that are ok but some are just too godly to use. like Dragon claw helm and BSG. I haven't been updated on what OCP is the craziest but these OCP just make the def set obselete.
 
2.Dorams
We got two option and its either make doram as ​demi human​ or make them as player race like fixing that bellum bug
​or second option: Complete revision of the class like currently happening on jRO
 
3. let's revise and make the woe more modernized..that will suit for everyone.
idk if camp remembers the agit lord thingie of sir Lorenz but we can have a twist..In a certain mobile game, we have a "woe" (but its caled territory war) and basically we declare a territory as ours then we will fight over it until we get 30,000 points which can be get by conquering certain places). now every after territory war, we are rewarded with some golds and "contribution" and we have an auction where we will bid a certain item for a certain amount of price..this is a good zenny ink btw.
 
I think we should do this way:
 
About the auction for guild wars: Auction can be held daily around night time. Players will bid a certain item for a certain amount of price, the price of it will go higher and i think its a good zenny sink..so what we can bid on here...here's my suggested items.
>WOE potions
>Ygg seeds and Ygg Fruits
>​GUYAK PUDDING ​(its a glorious consumable..i love it)
>Bellum equipments
>Woe equipments
>OCP or we can make it as OCP fragments then it can be "crafted" through npc
>EDP
>And other important things for the players
 
Those items above are just available at their localized Auctions (meaning, other guild members outside the guild having an option cannot bid)
Now..there's another Auction and that will be a worldwide option (probably like this: All geffen agit owners have a right to participate in the Geffen city Auction).
Possible items for this
>OCP fragments
>God item materials
>Treasure box
>WPS
 
Everyone can bid on this(i mean the agit owners). i think we can solve zenny sink and rewarding system for WOE..
 
Now, the items will become valuable depending on the ranking of the guild Via Agit Lord.
 
4. probably, let's make god items great again.
 
5.actions against cheaters xD

 
 
I have read almost all the post, almost. And basically some people blame the cats, the OCP, MVPs, others said everything its OK and just need tao to tank, wich its stupid coz most of the people do not have access to a MVP, also its discriminatory for new blood.
 
However, I surely read some good advices, wich I quote and there are many others wich i cant quote coz i dont want to make this long.
 
Dear Staff, you have a lot of work and reading HERE, not to mention these important things you did not complete yet:

  • Classes update pending posted by Campitor (reference pls? I remember he said balance will come, but it just never come)
  • Review of the old WoE Threads and start with that as base, instead just ignore everything we said and start again, this is stupid and obviously you want it as easy as can be, without reading and someone come and say "this, this and this".

And I agree with the actios we need to revitalize WoE. To be short, I suggest the following

  • Improve rewards (Godlike is not the big thing with the OCP items releasing) Suggestion: OCP items its too much, maybe more consumables or something to help the drawing zeny for doing WoE, aside with some consumables from cash shop (Oda's, Scrolls, BMx3)
  • KVM and WoE set works against Doram Race. The reason its simple, these items was thinking for pre-renewal and renewal for the player's race (human race) the time you put a doram in the scenario, must come with a balance for the introduction to WoE environment. make it a "player's race" or "adventurer" its the right way.
  • Disable OCP items, including Mob Scarf, BSG, and other items wich was not in the formula when WoE was planned. To be honest, even I dont feel comfort with this, but my inner me says this is the right way to follow. These items came with unbalance advantages hard to counter sometimes. Do not make this P2W.
  • MVPs ar just fine, its an advantage sometimes hard to counter, but I dont have nothing against it. I know some players has lots of em and some guilds lacks on em too, but its a game and who invest more time (or lucky shot) should have its respective reward.
  • The very last and mor eimportant: You seriously have to do something against cheaters, and implement the never-came anty cheat system Campitor promises years ago. This is the hardest point, even if you cant complete any of the above, I can make it sure 100% Mega 1 link no fake no virus 2018, this will help with the WoE & PVP health.

Hope you take the time to read the post I linked above in my 1st lines, and take actions against cheaters. On any game, the cheat its the most miserable you can do. Play fair, play good.
 
Your friend.
S209


Edited by S207, 13 October 2018 - 08:51 AM.

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#56 DrArthur

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:08 AM

I beg to differ. Castle drops do not even cover 1% of the cost in supplying a WoE guild -- it's as if they're almost worth nothing aside from OCAs and a couple of Treasure Boxes here and there. You do realise that guild leaders dedicate their time to PVM solely just to fund for supplies, right?

 

This is coming from TE perspective though, WoE 1/2 might have a different situation.

 

Yep. Now imagine the guildmates. They literally have a 0% chance of earning anything. They waste their time attending and playing some boring ass PVP -_- for three hours to get... nothing.

 

WoE is a -_-ty system because it literally only has a chance to reward the guildmaster and absolutely no one else, even though it's a gigantic timesink for a group. Three hours? What the -_- is THAT?


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#57 Nirvanna21

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:11 AM

Yep. Now imagine the guildmates. They literally have a 0% chance of earning anything. They waste their time attending and playing some boring ass PVP -_- for three hours to get... nothing.

 

WoE is a -_-ty system because it literally only has a chance to reward the guildmaster and absolutely no one else, even though it's a gigantic timesink for a group. Three hours? What the -_- is THAT?

 

It's 2 hours.

 

People do it for multiple reasons.

 

I WoE to help.

 

For others, they WoE for fun, or to just kill people. Doesn't always have to be an actual reward.


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#58 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:13 AM

When did ppl ever joined woe for other reason that wasn't "hey i enjoy/want to pvp" lol. In woe and depending on the guild, they get to do it 1~5 hours a week mostly cost free, all they have to do, all their "job" is there is to have fun? Like, if you don't have fun why do you even join that game mode to begin with?
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#59 Scuba

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:15 AM

Creating tools to prevent cheating is a never ending battle. All it does is forces cheats to become even more sophisticated. Leveling up the nastiness of cheats probably isn't something WP wants to be doing.
 
Its better to spot check & monitor for suspicious activity and delete the character; or permaban the WP account.
 

Yep. Now imagine the guildmates. They literally have a 0% chance of earning anything. They waste their time attending and playing some boring ass PVP -_- for three hours to get... nothing.
 
WoE is a -_-ty system because it literally only has a chance to reward the guildmaster and absolutely no one else, even though it's a gigantic timesink for a group. Three hours? What the -_- is THAT?


I think you are grossly misunderstanding what WoE is. The PvP IS the reward.

Edited by Scuba, 13 October 2018 - 11:31 AM.

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#60 azumak1

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:51 AM

Alright well it's been a few years since I've WoE'd, but most guilds would give a decent supply of certain consumables. Usually have some leftovers of certain things after a WoE. Zeny reward was a little more common pre-Renewal. Lots of guilds will loan out gods and/or MVP gears for the duration of WoE, possibly longer depending on seniority and trust. Not to mention the WoE itself, y'know, the part that's supposed to be fun. :heh:  

 

Another problem with the treasure box system is that guild leaders need HE Gum while opening boxes for the drop rate increase. The TLAPD event was really nice because Gum/drop rate mods didn't matter at all. 

 

idk, I gotta run out the door but that's what I thought of after catching up on the thread.


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#61 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:52 AM

The guildmembers don't get free supplies to woe? If you don't use them all you come out with more than you went in with lol. Castle treasures should just be referred to as "castle poop" then maybe it will make more sense to people that woe isn't some get rich quick scheme.


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#62 DrArthur

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:56 AM

It's 2 hours.

 

People do it for multiple reasons.

 

I WoE to help.

 

For others, they WoE for fun, or to just kill people. Doesn't always have to be an actual reward.

 

Two hours is also an enormous timesink for the mode, especially when absolutely nothing matters except for the last minute. Doesn't matter if you had the castle for 119 minutes, if you don't have it in the last...

 

Ironman competitions like that are stupid because there's no point to anything going on except for the very end.

 

The reward is supposed to be God Items and... well even if a guild master makes one, it's not leaving their hands except for RMT.


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#63 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:01 PM

If you really want just the castle, you can simply get a fast aspd character a snipe castles at the last minute, ppl have been doing that for years. Arguably that's the only way one actually gets to make money with WoE.

Ppl who are there to fight these "loong 2 hours", are there because of the fight itself.


Edited by Ashuckel, 13 October 2018 - 12:02 PM.

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#64 Nirvanna21

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:03 PM

Two hours is also an enormous timesink for the mode, especially when absolutely nothing matters except for the last minute. Doesn't matter if you had the castle for 119 minutes, if you don't have it in the last...

 

Ironman competitions like that are stupid because there's no point to anything going on except for the very end.

 

The reward is supposed to be God Items and... well even if a guild master makes one, it's not leaving their hands except for RMT.

 

God items have been pretty redundant for a little while now. Honestly nowadays the only reward is guild dungeon access, which everyone has access to in the guild should they obtain a castle.

 

And while the last 10 minutes do count, if you can establish dominance prior to you can have a pretty good run at defending.

 

Anything from when it starts until the final minute calls is completely down to how a guild chooses to play.

 

So yeah, I would argue that your points are somewhat off.


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#65 DrArthur

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:06 PM

If you really want just the castle, you can simply get a fast aspd character a snipe castles at the last minute, ppl have been doing that for years. Arguably that's the only way one actually gets to make money with WoE.

Ppl who are there to fight these "loong 2 hours", are there because of the fight itself.

 

The thing is, the "fight" was never exciting. People remember WoE for what it never was. It's never involved tactic or strategy. It's always been brute-force. Firepower has just gotten stronger. That's it.

 

RO's PVP has always been gutter trash.


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#66 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:08 PM

That is just your own view on it.

If it were to be universal truth, ppl wouldnt be so passionate about the subject, and wouldn't have kept playing the mode for years and years.


Edited by Ashuckel, 13 October 2018 - 12:09 PM.

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#67 Nirvanna21

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:08 PM

The thing is, the "fight" was never exciting. People remember WoE for what it never was. It's never involved tactic or strategy. It's always been brute-force. Firepower has just gotten stronger. That's it.

 

RO's PVP has always been gutter trash.

 

It's hardly brute force.


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#68 DrArthur

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:18 PM

That is just your own view on it.

If it were to be universal truth, ppl wouldnt be so passionate about the subject, and wouldn't have kept playing the mode for years and years.

 

People always strive to make things into something they never were. This isn't new.

 

WoE has never involved strategy. It's always been a form of brute-force. Either your attack killed them, or it was too weak and they fullhealed right after. It's never been anything different.


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#69 Scuba

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:23 PM

That isn't remotely accurate.
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#70 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:31 PM

IMO: It'd be kinda cool if owning a WoE castle unlocked a guild instance (like okolnir but better in many ways) that when it's completed each member got like a crate of woe potion boxes that is like 30-50 of each potion box or something + some other goodies specific to it or something like that.


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#71 mlmf

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 02:25 PM

The thing is, the "fight" was never exciting. People remember WoE for what it never was. It's never involved tactic or strategy. It's always been brute-force. Firepower has just gotten stronger. That's it.

RO's PVP has always been gutter trash.


It was never exciting? It was exciting when i first experienced it at 2011, and at least for me, its still exciting now.
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#72 ChakriGuard

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 02:52 PM

No game requires real hard professional skills. Maybe some soft skills but that's it. Almost all games I play require better and more stronger gears to win, even Dot (.) A game relies on items to win. That's why there is a saying, this guy is too fed = too farmed = have too many OP gears. You may say that learning to last hit needs a skill to do so. Not really, some heroes already come with better ATK so its' easier to last hit. Some players rely on ganks to get a head because 1-1 is hard to win, so 2v1 is easier. The only skill I actually see is Team work or Coordination skill and this is the same to  every game even in iRO. You wouldn't want to alt-statsis your team during a push right? 

Ok I'm gonna stop here before people know that I am a noob in . A rolf


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#73 DrArthur

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 02:58 PM

It was never exciting? It was exciting when i first experienced it at 2011, and at least for me, its still exciting now.

 

You enjoy fighting immortal sandbags that never die or do anything in relation, or you enjoy steamrolling frail bags of straw.

 

That's basically WoE. Either the enemy has enough skills + gears to never die but never do anything in relation, or they die in one hit because they lack the protection to live... and it's always been like this.


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#74 BlackMeow

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 03:52 PM

I beg to differ. Castle drops do not even cover 1% of the cost in supplying a WoE guild -- it's as if they're almost worth nothing aside from OCAs and a couple of Treasure Boxes here and there. You do realise that guild leaders dedicate their time to PVM solely just to fund for supplies, right?

 

This is coming from TE perspective though, WoE 1/2 might have a different situation.

 

so why do people even need to conquer a castle in woe? for bragging rights? 


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#75 DrArthur

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 03:55 PM

so why do people even need to conquer a castle in woe? for bragging rights? 

 

Of course, because you get that sweet bragging rights of knowing you wasted 119 minutes of your life leading up to the final minute that matters.

 

WoE is a -_-ty system because you're not encouraged to play it, you're encouraged to sneak in at the last minute. In fact you're penalized for playing it for a long period, as you are guaranteed absolutely nothing if you do.


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