184 replies to this topic

[Viri]

I like this now though, 99% of the players in WoE are negligible now even in groups of 10-15.

In reality though this is retarded.

[DrAzzy]

To be honest, i didn't feel much difference. It was a little easier to stay alive, but even on an RK with 120 vit and Isia rune up, there were times that I couldn't outpot the damage coming at me. There were still lots of things that really really hurt. I think 50% might be a better choice, but 40% was fine. 50% would also be nice because it's a simple round number that everyone will understand (ie, "skills do half damage in woe").

Edited by DrAzzy, 14 February 2011 - 11:03 AM.

[AtlasThunderbeef]

To be honest, i didn't feel much difference. It was a little easier to stay alive, but even on an RK with 120 vit and Isia rune up, there were times that I couldn't outpot the damage coming at me. There were still lots of things that really really hurt. I think 50% might be a better choice, but 40% was fine. 50% would also be nice because it's a simple round number that everyone will understand (ie, "skills do half damage in woe").

This would be incredibly good for the entire game.


It helps players, game balance and woe all in one.


Imagine how easy it is to say to a person "Your damage does half when you're in woe", instead of going into math with "your damage does 40% less in woe", then the listener would then try and figure out what 40% is, slowing down his/her game and the overall experience.

[iiNote]

I agree 50% is better.

[Heimdallr]

We'll look into the feedback of 50% WoE skill reduction.

Are there any skills that specifically don't seem to have that reduction happen? Or are now entirely broken/over powered now?

[Viri]

We'll look into the feedback of 50% WoE skill reduction.

Are there any skills that specifically don't seem to have that reduction happen? Or are now entirely broken/over powered now?

Everything seems to be reduced by WoE reduction. WoE reduction that is, not demi human/elemental % reductions. The only one that had to be verified still was the "missing hp portion" of gate of hell but it seems to be reduced properly through all testing I did. The people saying hell plant/dragon breath/etc/etc aren't reduced are basing these accusations off of getting 1 shotted in WoE, no actual testing. Tested, they are both properly reduced by the WoE reduction(although both and many other skills ignore said elemental/race reductions). I believe if you fixed those skills to be reduced by race reduction that'd cover PRETTY MUCH every skill that people are complaining about, except for clashing spiral which I don't understand the complaints anyway unless you're under level 120 or naked.

EDIT: The skills currently ignoring demi human/elemental reduction are

"the missing hp portion" of gate of hell
All hunter damage traps
Fire/Ice trap and cluster bomb, warg bite and warg strike(you might be okay leaving the ranger/hunter traps alone, not much complaint about those)
Cart cannon, hell plant, thorn wall and thorn trap
Dragon breath

Could make reflected damage adjusted by WoE reduction, that'd help a lot if that's even possible.

Just suggestions.

Double edit: I'm sure there are some mechanic skills that do,particularly I know their self destruct skill ignores reductions but it's THEIR ONLY GOOD SKILL. Nerfing that would be a slap in the face at this point lol

Edited by Viri, 14 February 2011 - 12:54 PM.

[Wizard]

We'll look into the feedback of 50% WoE skill reduction.

Are there any skills that specifically don't seem to have that reduction happen? Or are now entirely broken/over powered now?

It seems not that many ppl are complaining about suras anymore... when you said that you will look into the 50% WoE reduction feedback, does that means that we are getting 50% reduction this week?

Is there any way to keep Spells (Magic attacks) in 40% reduction instead of 60% fo what it is now? with the amount of INT nowdays (MDEF) and our current MATK formula, it is quite hard for spells to deal regular/high damage as before... then again, having more chances of survival is not that bad but we kinda don't want to give up on damage either...

[Viri]

Just set it back to 40% and fix the few skills mentioned to be reduced by demihuman and elemental reduction and no one will complain about them ever again. Average person wears 20% fire resist and at least 30% demihuman resist(Cranial valk shield) and 20% neutral resist(raydric)so that'll reduce damage from whatever it does in WoE to... 70%(-30%) of that, 56%(-44%) if it's fire or neutral. That's even lower than it is currently compared to standard 40% siege reduction.(-33%)

[Freedom]

I would like to try the 50% reduct. I really thought the 40% was to low and 60 was to high. Set it at 50% like I said in the first post and lets see how it goes.

[Sapphic]

We'll look into the feedback of 50% WoE skill reduction.

Are there any skills that specifically don't seem to have that reduction happen? Or are now entirely broken/over powered now?

I do think Reflect Damage should just be removed from WoE completely. RGs have so many other things they can do, it's not like it'll affect them too much in any way.

50% would be something to try, but I honestly really enjoyed 40. I think you guys just need to adjust it for certain weaker classes.

On another note, are people really having trouble with pots? You guys didn't get one shotted so easily pre-renewal and you were in renewal, hence the complaints, but now you guys are complaining you can't afford the pots? Make up your minds. Encouraging the GMs to fight inflation doesn't really help either, does it?

Edited by Sapphic, 14 February 2011 - 02:09 PM.

[Asuki]

We'll look into the feedback of 50% WoE skill reduction.

Are there any skills that specifically don't seem to have that reduction happen? Or are now entirely broken/over powered now?

main skill u want to look at is reflect damage and exceed break, exceed break especially since its considered a auto attack, is not reduced by woe reductions at all. It also does like 55K+ damage in woe to anyone and to many ppl are getting 1 shot by it unless there a peco class

[Andini]

it's people being bad that make rgs such a factor in woe. yeah lets huddle aruond the rg and make a campfire around it cause that is great idea amirite? if you want to work more together, well there you go. work together to disable the rg. reflect is hardly an issue regarding renewal woe as a whole

90% of people saying reflect is horrible and overpowered don't play a rg and prob are the ones getting killed by it. you prob would turn around and defend to the death your skills if someone said it was to be nerfed.

Edited by Andini, 14 February 2011 - 02:16 PM.

[Zeca]

We'll look into the feedback of 50% WoE skill reduction.

Are there any skills that specifically don't seem to have that reduction happen? Or are now entirely broken/over powered now?

I dont think 50% will be enough
I really liked the 60% and it felt fair. People were still dying, just not as much as before. We actually had time to counter stuff, and that brought the much needed organization.
As i said before, you gotta remember iro is the only retarded server where +9 kvm weapons are average gear. You NEED a decent nerf on damage for it to get close to every other server.

[dragoonlordz]

Hunter traps do not need reductions for example a Chaser using Fire trap for fighting in the last WoE people wern't dying left right and centre due to damage from it. If it did get reduced it shouldn't be reduced by much as it's neutral damage people wearing the average normal WoE based gear will already have it's damage reduced.

The one's I saw doing the most overall damage for me personally with regard to skill damage were GX (which to be fair I have no objection too as they have had it bad in WoE for quite some time with the exception of EDP) However they can be countered. I had issues with Hell Plants before the reduction but as I didn't get to fight with anyone using them last time I cannot say if was better or worse. RGs still do massive amounts of damage but it no longer is instant kills atleast for myself which is a bonus. Suras still one shot if the Sura themselves have the PvP skills to do it right, others fell short on such matters.

Overall I'm perfectly happy with current reduction but if must cave in to the desires of others then 50% might be ok if not borderline a step bit too far imho. I don't see the problem using pots and zeny is not an issue just as the fact you need a zeny sink in game like you placed with the raffle due to how vast the amounts of currency is floating around in game right now (even if noone is spending much of it), potting or more accuratley supplying one self during WoE seems like a good solution to that and should not be used as an excuse to bump the reductions back to what they were.

I am curious though about MATK, it did seem to do alot of damage overall on myself and they were not using fire element spells so standard WoE basic gear wouldn't help with that. But maybe it was just more noticable to me.

Suras and RGs were giving the most problems but thats nothing new, Suras have the most powerfull attack in game and RGs have the combination of skills regarding defence, health and attack that makes them overall so strong that people want them to be brought down a bit which is understandable.

Edited by dragoonlordz, 14 February 2011 - 02:41 PM.

[Afrikan]

the only things i can think of that need a fix are howl and exceeding break. both which are changed on kRO i think, so iRO just needs the update.

other than that, i think renewal is more noob friendly than pre-renewal by a lot. taking feedback from these forums and changing woe reduction is kinda funny cuz u get 1 shotted/take out-pottable dps way more pre-renewal.

[Majeh]

pretty much howl is the biggest thing u need to fix it needs a HUGE reuse timer

[Studmanly]

It should have never existed.

[Hrothmund]

Well if we go back to potting excessively (spending 50k-100k per run on white NPC costs) instead of 5k to recover from a OHKO, that'll help inflation a lot

Sounds like a good change overall, but i might suggest that "magic" class attacks get a different reduction to physical attacks since magic is quite underpowered atm.

something like

Physical Skills(Melee & ranged): 40% of original damage
Magic: 60% of original damage (original woe setting).

I dont think regular attacks (looking at you +9 kvm crit GX) needs a nerf because their hasnt been any complaints or comments other than "whys that gx using zerk pots?"

Edited by Hrothmund, 14 February 2011 - 03:52 PM.

[Zeca]

I would be okay with howling if it could be 100% resisted with a crazy build, like 150 luk/150vit, so you would have an "Anti-Howling" bishop. That and make clearance affect everyone, including yourself, not just your party.

[Andini]

191+ aspd +10 kvm jur crit gx is nothing to laugh about, and that's not even gettin into their poisons

[Heimdallr]

Right now the old reduction was skills would do 60% norm
This past week we set it to skills would do 40% norm.

We will likely give a try to the 50% normal, don't know if it will happen this week or not.

Now about seperating magic spells from the skills. That isn't possible given what we are doing now. But if it is specific skills I am fairly certain we can target a specific skill to reduce/increase damage on.


Regarding what is being effected by race/element etc. That is a big problem we are running into already. finding out which skills are ignoring them is a valuable help to us. I may have to ask to have made or make myself a list of all the damage skills in the game and see if the community can help me fill it in.

Most skills in my testing plainly ignored element even with endow on... this did not make me too happy (or it was only element on the weapon not the str). Right now I believe there is a bigger fix needed with the damage formulas in general to make the calculations work as they should. That would increase both defense and offense in PVP scenarios, but the extra plus for defense is that you have a few more options for defense whereas offense can't really scale much differently for options. (I don't think this last paragraph is very clear).

tldr
We are working on a better fix for the damage/defense formulas as well.

[Wizard]

I am curious though about MATK, it did seem to do alot of damage overall on myself and they were not using fire element spells so standard WoE basic gear wouldn't help with that. But maybe it was just more noticable to me.

I would say it depends a lot on the player... every Warlock is different and you have to take into consideration their gears as their skill built... if you go all out MATK gear, you will ended up with 0% demi human reduction but with around +60% damage against demi-human... so it will depend if the warlock is going to risk for it or not... now about elements... with people defaulting fire armors every where, it is illogic to use Fire Spells... so some of us opted for Wind/Earth Spells... why? simple... they can't be reduced other than Glorious Rings... since nowdays no one uses Wind Armors anymore, the only way you have to reduce a Wind Spell (Chain Lightning as example) is thru Glorious Rings... Plus using Water & Fire elements are reduced by Valk Shield so even if you use water element against fire armor users, the damage won't be as great as it will suppose to be thanks to their water resistance that people uses as default... Plus Wind Spells have a better Damage Formula than others =)

Right now the old reduction was skills would do 60% norm
This past week we set it to skills would do 40% norm.

We will likely give a try to the 50% normal, don't know if it will happen this week or not.

Now about seperating magic spells from the skills. That isn't possible given what we are doing now. But if it is specific skills I am fairly certain we can target a specific skill to reduce/increase damage on.


Regarding what is being effected by race/element etc. That is a big problem we are running into already. finding out which skills are ignoring them is a valuable help to us. I may have to ask to have made or make myself a list of all the damage skills in the game and see if the community can help me fill it in.

Most skills in my testing plainly ignored element even with endow on... this did not make me too happy (or it was only element on the weapon not the str). Right now I believe there is a bigger fix needed with the damage formulas in general to make the calculations work as they should. That would increase both defense and offense in PVP scenarios, but the extra plus for defense is that you have a few more options for defense whereas offense can't really scale much differently for options. (I don't think this last paragraph is very clear).

tldr
We are working on a better fix for the damage/defense formulas as well.

If you are willing on targeting skills so you guys can reduce/increase damage, it will be easier to just reduce damage from skills that people used to complain before instead of adding damage on other skills... I think that would be easier since there are just a few skills that need to get their damage lowered...

[Wanderer]

I believe Hell Plants and Dragon Breath are ignoring racial reductions?

[Pitt]

all is fine now, just the instant hell plant on a 150 genetic with mjolnir and foods on....still kinda hard to pot it (even using seeds).

[DeltaRay]

Magic skills
Warlock
Soul Expansion
Crimson Rock
Hell Inferno
Comet
Frost Misty
Jack frost
Chain Lightning
Earth Strain
Tetra Vortex
Trans/2nd
Stave Crasher
Napalm Vulcan
Water ball
Storm Gust
Jupitel Thunder
Lord of Vermilion
Sightrasher
Meteor Storm
Earth Spike
Heavens Drive
Frost Nova

Majority magic skills that cause damage and I dont think you want me to write down the 1st class skills.