250 replies to this topic

[sukidayo]

turn-ins or not, i always see someone "solo" with 3 or more alts lol..

[Charon]

Theres plenty of things you can do to a mob other than increase its HP to an insane amount to prevent mob killing. Just look at Anubis pre-RE. slow walking, ranged skills, low spawn, maze like map, emotes. Theres all sorts of things you can do. kRO needs to take a step back from the spreadsheet approach and start getting inventive.

Not to mention the interesting AI they were already programming



but then simply didnt implement it for who knows what stupid reason.
Clearly there is hundreds of ways they could make monsters behave which would promote different strategies to kill them, but no, why implement great stuff if you dont need to I guess

Edited by Charon, 05 May 2011 - 11:59 AM.

[yarumasi]

[*]Level penalty being hacked out.. (late May Early June) : We will have to review all the monsters current level and exp and the exp that characters need to level. Both will get updated so we have a "kills per level" system that players can go faster than by taking on bigger challenges. I already expect oversights with this as it is a HUGE potential update, so your patience is appreciated when we screw up with it.

Alright, can we get a clear definition as to the idea of a "kills per level" system? Honestly, if that means I have to kill 1,000 monsters (like now) on my own then it's just the same stuff with a new candy coating. But! I've been here for a long long time and I know that you don't have a lack of judgement in that way. So, as for the experience needed to level, are you going to cut it down to a safe point? At 99 I need about 7 million exp... getting only ~2k exp a kill. That is just too much and too unrealistic even for a grind. It also makes me feel that botters have it easy. Thanks heim. Also big props to getting rid of the level penalty for mob kills.

[Siveria]

Party System: We requested a fairly robust party system update, and it seems that kRO has implemented "something" along those lines on kRO. I don't know if it follows our request precisely, but what they have is a 20% bonus rather than a 10% bonus.

Basically I look at 12 person parties as my base, as that is what I want to see more of. Current: 12 person party = monster is worth double exp divided by party size = 1000exp monster = (1000*((12-2)*.1) +1)/12 200/12 = 166/member New system would be 250 per member. My goal is to get it much closer to the 1/3 - 1/2 (333 - 500 exp / member) so the penalty for going more than 2 or 3 players is so miniscule that people will default to 12 if available. There was much more in the party proposal to "enhance" partying, but some of those could be considered trolling you with ideas that didn't happen and I don't want it to seem like a loss that we didn't get it, and take away from what we DID get.

Yes the 20% bonus is something we are requesting along with the skill tweaks that have been done already.

Any plan to enhance small 2-3 people parties, cuz 60% exp each in a 2 person party kinda sucks when your with a support char. Just slows it down imo.

[Charon]

Party System: We requested a fairly robust party system update, and it seems that kRO has implemented "something" along those lines on kRO. I don't know if it follows our request precisely, but what they have is a 20% bonus rather than a 10% bonus.

Basically I look at 12 person parties as my base, as that is what I want to see more of. Current: 12 person party = monster is worth double exp divided by party size = 1000exp monster = (1000*((12-2)*.1) +1)/12 200/12 = 166/member New system would be 250 per member. My goal is to get it much closer to the 1/3 - 1/2 (333 - 500 exp / member) so the penalty for going more than 2 or 3 players is so miniscule that people will default to 12 if available. There was much more in the party proposal to "enhance" partying, but some of those could be considered trolling you with ideas that didn't happen and I don't want it to seem like a loss that we didn't get it, and take away from what we DID get.

Yes the 20% bonus is something we are requesting along with the skill tweaks that have been done already.

getting ~30% from 3 members up won't make parties with more than 3 people default to 12, because there still wont be any reason to make a party that has more than 1 member.

It would either require
-changing around lots of monsters so they're tough but rewarding (not only is this alot of work, but it's also hard to balance since it depends on alot of other factors, which also change with more updates...)

-changing share party system so it works on screen range giving everyone full exp (or close to 100%). The issue here is that people would leech their chars. Or something similar would be 100% exp from tap in share, but that leaves supporters out unless its programable that buffing someone who taps counts as tap...

Edited by Charon, 12 May 2011 - 12:41 AM.

[olbaid]

It would either require
-changing around lots of monsters so they're tough but rewarding (not only is this alot of work, but it's also hard to balance since it depends on alot of other factors, which also change with more updates...)

Level penalty for EXP can be changed based on the party size allowing bigger parties to level on harder maps. Avoids the messy situations of changing monster stats.

[Charon]

Level penalty for EXP can be changed based on the party size allowing bigger parties to level on harder maps. Avoids the messy situations of changing monster stats.

Nah, they should just get rid of the hardcore fall that occurs from +15 to +16 and it should be cool.
+10 - 140%
+11 - 135%
+12 - 130%
+13 - 125%
+14 - 120%
+15 - 115%
+16 - 40%
+17 - 40%
and then on and on.

should be
+10 - 140%
+11 - 135%
+12 - 130%
+13 - 125%
+14 - 120%
+15 - 115%
+16 - 110%
+17 - 105%
+18 - 100%
+19 - 95%
+20 - 90%
+21 - 85%
+22 - 75%
+23 - 60%
+24 - 40%

seriously why not?? is there a point to the big jump, that everyones missing?

Edited by Charon, 12 May 2011 - 10:51 AM.

[SirDillhole]

Never looked at this before, or remember doing so, but my question is, are they planning to finally remove the level penalty? (Yes, I'm too lazy to read the 7 pages posted).

Just seems to be that from the point you hit 115, it starts to slow down, and the variety of the monsters to kill to get levels seems to get slimmer and slimmer towards getting 150.

[Kadelia]

You kidding? Variety gets slim at 90 or so. Prior to that there is a myriad of alternate spots to level. After that its like, hapies, dark priest, magmarings. Then at 100? Pretty much just magma2. Then 120+, rachel or Abyss Lake. 130+, Bio Labs 2. There isn't a whole lot of variety in location--- OR STYLE. everyone does solo AoE mobbing, pot, wing, AoE. Etc. this game is so boring after lvl 90.

[Cleffy]

I competed in the Novice Olympics with a level 39 Novice. I lost to a level 45 Novice.

[Charon]

I've come up with something that would deal with the problem of:
"OMFG my 3 MILLION Gfist hit so hard it killed 5 mvps on another server!"

Gfist Resistance
Each monster gets a new stat, called Gfist resist.
It would be a number between 1-100, 100 being default.
The number would mean, how much HP the monster can maximally lose from a single hit.

So for example
Valkyrie Randgris
HP: 2,205,000
GFist resist: 30

Your GFist cannot do more damage than (2,205,000*30%=) 661500, and you essentially need 4 GFists to kill it

Note this was just an example.

This could then be made to work for all skills actually O:

It would also allow for some funny stuff, like
imagine if a Magmaring had GFist resist of 95. An LK couldnt onehit it with clashing, but have to
-use it twice
-use some other weak but fast skill
-have some gx in party to use a skill on it too finish off

think theres potential in this xD

[AtlasThunderbeef]

If someone had to use two Clashing's to kill one Magmaring and get 4k exp, then they would probably rage quit pretty fast.

Exp tables would have to change first and the penalties taken out.

[Kadelia]

If someone had to use two Clashing's to kill one Magmaring and get 4k exp, then they would probably rage quit pretty fast.

Exp tables would have to change first and the penalties taken out.

Poorly geared gypsy or sinx or paladin etc can't 1 shot magmaring either. What is boils down to is LK needing similar amount of effort to lvl fast. That's all that is important. With good weapons and +ATK gear all the trans (obvious exception being priest) can 1 shot magmaring. Right now LK need pretty much no stats or gear other than an NPC lance to 1 shot magmaring.

I was overkilling magmarings by over 2x their HP with a +4 cardless hunting spear-- I dare say the skill could do 1/2 what it does and get you to third job decently. It sounds like kRO nerfed it to 2/3 and then reduced gloom to 1/2 its previous total damage (grand totaling a "gloomy spiral" doing about 1/3 the damage it does today). This means its not a 1 hit KO skill in WoE and weak in MVP as it should be, but still quite good for leveling to 99 and early 100s. I don't see the need for some kind of -95% damage shield on monsters.

Though I guess a considerable side-note is that probably the best way to buff single-target leveling methods to be comparable to mobbing is for maps with lower monster counts or larger coverage area (example in point being magmaring) that the base EXP/job exp could be increased to maybe 1.5x what they are now. Being able to 1 shot a monster with that much HP when you are 9x should yield good exp. IMO.

Edited by Jaye, 16 May 2011 - 09:04 AM.

[Shane]

Take another look at the +9 bonuses for kvm weapons. Some are drastically better than others, for example..

Glorious Fist

Increases physical damage against [Demi-Human] race targets by 95%.
    Physical attacks bypass the defense of [Demi-Human] race targets by 20%.
    +6 upgrade bonus:
        [Slaughter] Lv 1: Increases physical damage bonus by (Upgrade - 4) ^ 2, til an upgrade of +14.
        Increases defense bypassing by 5%.
    +9 upgrade bonus:
        Automaticly casts [Zen] Lv 1 when [Fury] is used.

    Obtained with 2000 points from KVM Battlegrounds.

Glorious Jamadhar

Increases physical damage against [Demi-Human] race targets by 70%.
    Increases critical attack damage by 20%.
    +6 upgrade bonus:
        [Slaughter] Lv 1: Increases physical damage bonus by (Upgrade - 4) ^ 2, til an upgrade of +14.
        Increases the crit rate on [Demi-Human] race targets by 5.
    +9 upgrade bonus:
        Adds a 7% chance for when dealing physical damage, the user will have max Aspd for 3 seconds.

    Obtained with 2000 points from KVM Battlegrounds.

Compared to

Glorious Destruction Staff

Increases magic damage against [Demi-Human] race targets by 15%.
    Magical attacks bypass the defense of [Demi-Human] race targets by 25%.
    Each upgrade increases magic damage by 1%.
    +6 upgrade bonus:
        [Destruction] Lv 1: Increases magic damage bonus and defense bypassing by (Upgrade - 5) * 2, til an upgrade of +14.
        Increases defense bypassing by 5%.
    +9 upgrade bonus:
        Adds a 20% chance of using [Safety Wall] Lv 10 on the user when [Storm Gust], [Lord of Vermilion] or [Meteor Storm] is casted.

    Obtained with 2000 points from KVM Battlegrounds.

Or even Glorious Arc Wand (Doesn't have destruction bonus)

Increases magic damage against [Demi-Human] race targets by 15%.
    Magical attacks bypass the defense of [Demi-Human] race targets by 25%.
    +6 upgrade bonus:
        Increases defense bypassing by 5%.
    +9 upgrade bonus:
        Increases magic damage by 5%.
        Reduces the variable cast time of skills by 5%.
        Reduces the skill usage delay by 5%.

    Obtained with 2000 points from KVM Battlegrounds.

Casters really get shafted as far as KVM reward weapons go, comparatively some melee classes have extremely great +9 bonuses in addition to the weapon itself being great. If I might make a suggestion, have the +9 bonus for the staff be demihuman reduction. 20~30% or so, to make up for not being able to wear a shield. The classes that can use the destruction staff are already among the lowest hp classes in the game, in order to use their best weapon they must make themselves even more vulnerable. For comparison, suras do not need to unequip a shield for either of their extremely potent kvm weapons. Assassin crosses do, but they can also cloak, hide, and have a much higher HP modifier than wizards and sorcerors do. As for the arc wand, perhaps add destruction bonus to it, and leave the +9 bonus as it is, right now the item itself is very weak, the +9 bonus is alright though.

Renewal significantly nerfed caster damage except in extreme cases where players are stacked both with god items and MVP cards. Compounding on that elemental reductions are even easier to get now than ever before (glorious rings and kafra blossom cards abound) further hindering a caster's ability to do damage. Give us an option to be able to do damage without sacrificing so much survivability.

I did not address other classes in this post but a lot of the KVM weapons are simply bad, only a select few are worth using. I'm a caster so I would like to see caster items buffed, but across the board I would hope for another look at the KVM bonuses and if they are on par with some of the others.

[Kadelia]

glorious lariat lol

[Hrothmund]

Glorious destruction's safety wall chance should be "when using magic" not a couple of random skills nobody uses anymore. They should both have more fixed/variable/delay reduction as well. Glorious fist is rediculous and breaks any semblance of balance. The katars arent quite that bad since its ctrl-click rather than skill based, but they're still oodles better than the other class weapons.

[Clogon]

Take another look at the +9 bonuses for kvm weapons. Some are drastically better than others, for example..


Casters really get shafted as far as KVM reward weapons go, comparatively some melee classes have extremely great +9 bonuses in addition to the weapon itself being great.

I guess you haven't seen the Archer's weapons? At least Casters only get shafted in regards to their +9 effects. Their Matk at least make up for it.

Glorious Hunter Bow is one of the most useless bows ever. There is literally no reason to get this bow let alone upgrading it. Bows lose out on considerable damage since they are bugged to not get any over refine bonus. Every upgrade past +4, lv4 melee and magic weapons get +14 more atk and matk to their maximum damage bows do not. Even comparing to other bows in game, no matter how upgraded, its damage won't be much higher than a Orc Archer Bow with Steel Arrows which is considerably easier to get.

The Glorious Guitar and Glorious Lariat only have 50 Atk! And yield no good effect whatsoever. The performer's best offensive skill requires a Bow anyways. Wearing any whip or instument for their songs is enough, even an NPC one. Why bother investing into these weapons?

Melee's are so much stronger than any Range or Caster class, not only in skill mods but in equipment too...

[Charon]

I guess you haven't seen the Archer's weapons? At least Casters only get shafted in regards to their +9 effects. Their Matk at least make up for it.

Glorious Hunter Bow is one of the most useless bows ever. There is literally no reason to get this bow let alone upgrading it. Bows lose out on considerable damage since they are bugged to not get any over refine bonus. Every upgrade past +4, lv4 melee and magic weapons get +14 more atk and matk to their maximum damage bows do not. Even comparing to other bows in game, no matter how upgraded, its damage won't be much higher than a Orc Archer Bow with Steel Arrows which is considerably easier to get.

The Glorious Guitar and Glorious Lariat only have 50 Atk! And yield no good effect whatsoever. The performer's best offensive skill requires a Bow anyways. Wearing any whip or instument for their songs is enough, even an NPC one. Why bother investing into these weapons?

Melee's are so much stronger than any Range or Caster class, not only in skill mods but in equipment too...

Don't be surprised if Heim comes in here and asks what problem with bows you're talking about exactly, since they seem to work alright :/

I wonder whether anyone at kRO even knows of this bug. Seriously it's been in since renewal. Prolly cause Ranger sucked so badly that no one ever used a bow in the last 3 years.

[Kadelia]

* Yeah refinement to bow doesn't not add matk.
* Over-refinement to bow doesn't add the extra bonus to max atk, only the regular flat +2/+3/+5/+7 you get for normal refines.
* BG/KVM bows, whips, guitar have such low ATK that it doens't matter what refinement you get them to, Orc Archer Bow or Elven Bow, or in the case of the performer weapons, NPC weapon deal more damage.

On top of that the effects suck. Glorious' Lariat's +9 effect is worse than the Glorious Destruction Staff's. It autocasts Tarrot Card of fate (by low chance) when you cast your impossible to use and weak Arrow Vulcan! Arrow Vulcan is impossible to use in WoE! It needs INSTANT CAST to be useable! How many times do we have to tell GM this? They keep lowering its cast time but it STILL HAS A CAST BAR AND CAN BE INTERRUPTED. A skill that can't kill anyone and has a 3 second animation where you can't do anything DOES NOT NEED TO BE INTERRUPTABLE. Add a cast bar to bash and mammonite if you think all skills need to be interruptable!

Edited by Jaye, 22 May 2011 - 05:54 AM.

[ensignfluke]

The Glorious Guitar and Glorious Lariat only have 50 Atk! And yield no good effect whatsoever. The performer's best offensive skill requires a Bow anyways. Wearing any whip or instument for their songs is enough, even an NPC one. Why bother investing into these weapons?

Not sure if the Glorious weapons are different, but at least my Valorous one can't be broken and weighs nothing. But kind of sad that it's useless offensively now.

[Hrothmund]

^^ doesnt tarot of fate have an ungodly long aftercast delay, making any other skill use impossible if it goes off? its like the worst autocast skill possible >.>

[Clogon]

As Charon said, there are other classes that use bows too not just Rangers. Why should OAB be a Shadow CHaser's best Bow? Though I did misunderstood some of Shane's post and used a tone I shouldn't have. And for that I do apologize.

Edited by Resplendent, 27 May 2011 - 06:49 AM.

[Akin]

God item creation revamp late May: Brining actual competition back in the item making. This will be controversial but I do believe it will be fun. After seals close the dwarfs take 10 minutes or so to open a portal to a new guild dungeon that is only open when making god items. A tougher set of monsters will be in there, and a long kill count that only the item creator can undertake WITH THEIR GUILD IN THAT DUNGEON. After the count is complete the dwarf will let you in to make the item. Those pushing the seals with each turnin get to vote on which of the 4 realms they want to open. The winningest vote gets in early to the special dungeon. If no creation happens in 6 hours seals open up at 10 away from releasing, kill counts reset on subsequent entries so you can't prestock the kill count.

I have a few questions.

• This seems to be late already, can you give us an updated time frame for when this will be implemented?
• In this new "special" kill count GD, will it be PvP as well, or only PvE? Or is it an instanced GD?
• Can the guild leader recall in the new kill count GD or do guild members have to talk to the dwarf as well?
• In reference to the bold part, do you mean that each person who completes a seal quest gets to vote on which realm's dwarf opens early (for a total of 200 votes)?
• After the head start, do the other 3 realms open?
• Is the head start time based on votes or just a fixed duration?

Thanks.

[Ularis]

I made a novice recently to check out the "in-process" in the training grounds.

Well, I was surprised when I saw a novice cast firebolt and firewall.

I kept yelling "Novice are OP" until they (the non-bot newbies) told me that Job NPCs let you try out some skills of the 5 1st class jobs.

They also have quests in tne training ground that rewards EXP, 300 nov red pot, 100 nov flywings, 50 nov bwings and tons of Kafra storage and tansportation tickets.
There's no way you'll leave that place below lvl 10 base/job.

They seem way better off than my struggling chars lol

Edited by Ularis, 07 June 2011 - 06:13 PM.

[Hrothmund]

I still have novice butterfly wings on my new sura lol. I like that it doesnt let you leave before 10, since that pretty much means you either do all 4 quests, or spend a long ass time in there.

I dont think the Eden NPC should have the option of warping though, new players could get lost/frustrated on way to job change without a guide. Also the TK (and probably ninja/gunslinger) dont have warps to their job NPC's like the core 5 classes. Not a big deal if you know where to go, but not newb friendly.

Edited by Hrothmund, 09 June 2011 - 12:56 AM.