390 replies to this topic

[Clouse]

i agree myrms can kill pallys sometimes ive done it alot its not too hard. but pally is way too OP still. AND then with new origons u make it even STRONGER?! my opinion is ur going the wrong way with the pally class. the new pally skills are cool and all but its like a 1-man air spam now and if uve seen them in BSQ its totaly not fair in for any other class because the have like 4 air damaging skills compaired to everyone else having 2. Also giving pally armor that starts out at about double the defence of other classes is realy anoying. All im saying is there is no point in having a class so OP and having a class discussions if ur not gonna listen to the public and DO SOMETHING!!!

[Coolsam]

Totally agree. Besides, Myrms can fight other classes pretty well. Properly played, they can beat pallies, it's just not fun.

This I can agree on. Especially with a move-spd Myrm which can be great if used properly.

Overlord vs Dragoon: Blocks your problem. Stumblebum helps. EDIT: Stumble can interrupt rolling ground.

Overlord vs Overlord: Learn the ranges of the skills used. About 55% of the Overlords in server aren't adequate defense wise.

Overlord vs Setinel: Move after a storm/wyvern blade to avoid telsa. pay attention to trap spots. Most Setinels have low hp which CD myrms can wreck if their defense is low.

Overlord vs Destroyer: Once again, learn the range of skills. If you see the sniping prepped, run around or interrupt with incoming bear.

Overlord vs Savage: Sword dance works well if they approach w/ the head spin. Avoid the Moscow Dancer and Rocket Punch since they are the main catchers.

Overlord vs Ninja: Gotta act fast when they attempt to use their catching skills. Block will be a pain but not too bad. Most myrm's can stack aim so evade aint a problem. (<3 Dianos)

Overlord vs Invoker: If you get caught in the magnet, interrupt them. Flinch them up for the duration and the worse u get hit by is the swamp.

Overlord vs Sorcerer: The new ice shot from the fire symbol (still questioning the physics) can mess you up. Learn it's firing pattern. Other skills have ranges that can be walked around with no trouble.

Edited by Coolsam, 12 December 2011 - 02:09 PM.

[Flovios]

Overlord vs Sorcerer: The new ice shot from the fire symbol (still questioning the physics) can mess you up. Learn it's firing pattern. Other skills have ranges that can be walked around with no trouble.

That's why they are called sorcerer. They do magic, not physics.

Back to the topics. I think animation cancel in sword dance should be removed. Right now, the sword is still "being thrown" even though we can not see the sword and its trajectory (due to short animation + animation cancel + hitscan based). I think it should have longer animation, or when they cancel the animation, it should also cancel the skill (like meteor in sorcerer skill. If you move after you finished casting the meteor and all the meteor haven't fallen from the sky, the skill stop. No more meteor is falling down)

[GrapefruitGod]

This I can agree on. Especially with a move-spd Myrm which can be great if used properly.

Overlord vs Dragoon: Blocks your problem. Stumblebum helps. EDIT: Stumble can interrupt rolling ground.

Overlord vs Overlord: Learn the ranges of the skills used. About 55% of the Overlords in server aren't adequate defense wise.

Overlord vs Setinel: Move after a storm/wyvern blade to avoid telsa. pay attention to trap spots. Most Setinels have low hp which CD myrms can wreck if their defense is low.

Overlord vs Destroyer: Once again, learn the range of skills. If you see the sniping prepped, run around or interrupt with incoming bear.

Overlord vs Savage: Sword dance works well if they approach w/ the head spin. Avoid the Moscow Dancer and Rocket Punch since they are the main catchers.

Overlord vs Ninja: Gotta act fast when they attempt to use their catching skills. Block will be a pain but not too bad. Most myrm's can stack aim so evade aint a problem. (<3 Dianos)

Overlord vs Invoker: If you get caught in the magnet, interrupt them. Flinch them up for the duration and the worse u get hit by is the swamp.

Overlord vs Sorcerer: The new ice shot from the fire symbol (still questioning the physics) can mess you up. Learn it's firing pattern. Other skills have ranges that can be walked around with no trouble.

I dont agree with any of that. Well maybe the vs savage one a little bit, but yeah, most of that I dont agree with.

[JoeyLe]

I dont agree with any of that. Well maybe the vs savage one a little bit, but yeah, most of that I dont agree with.

yeah i agree as well, overlords are underpowered compared to all other classes

[GrapefruitGod]

I didn't disagree because they're underpowered. They're not underpowered in the slightest bit actually. I disagreed because taking that approach to those classes is either incorrect or will end up getting you killed. Having a good idea of how each class works helps, but in the end it's how the player controlling the class that you need to learn.

[JoeyLe]

I didn't disagree because they're underpowered. They're not underpowered in the slightest bit actually. I disagreed because taking that approach to those classes is either incorrect or will end up getting you killed. Having a good idea of how each class works helps, but in the end it's how the player controlling the class that you need to learn.

i guess ur right, each player plays each class differently, so using the same approach for each and every class might not work all the time

[Clouse]

People.. i wanna make sure of something. can we agree that at the warior class is the easiest 2 pvp with. can we also agree that warior classes are the only ones that can continue a lock for just about ever doe to sd? if so then y are wariors given such an advantage over every1 else. as a sin,rouge,specialist,and PF warriors just have 2 much of everything 2 make them too good to pvp against.i mean take stumbledum for example y does a skill get to drop aim rate so low for so long AND have such a wide range of stun with no chance of failing.. its just not right. and sowrd dance realy people? no1 falls down like that in real life and it should't be able to have a cool down of like 3sec its just not normal. i understand that Myrms dont have a lot of catch moves but the ones they do have shouldnt be vertualy impossible to escape. and the fact that with upgrades a +10 warrior weapon compared to a +10 of any other class has almost double th atack. this added to their long combos is not how PVP should be. the point of this forum is to make classes EQUAL not just POSSIBLE. do something about this.thats all i have 2 say

[Rurone]

People.. i wanna make sure of something. can we agree that at the warior class is the easiest 2 pvp with.

Please be a troll. Please be a troll...

[OFireO]

People.. i wanna make sure of something. can we agree that at the warior class is the easiest 2 pvp with. can we also agree that warior classes are the only ones that can continue a lock for just about ever doe to sd? if so then y are wariors given such an advantage over every1 else. as a sin,rouge,specialist,and PF warriors just have 2 much of everything 2 make them too good to pvp against.i mean take stumbledum for example y does a skill get to drop aim rate so low for so long AND have such a wide range of stun with no chance of failing.. its just not right. and sowrd dance realy people? no1 falls down like that in real life and it should't be able to have a cool down of like 3sec its just not normal. i understand that Myrms dont have a lot of catch moves but the ones they do have shouldnt be vertualy impossible to escape. and the fact that with upgrades a +10 warrior weapon compared to a +10 of any other class has almost double th atack. this added to their long combos is not how PVP should be. the point of this forum is to make classes EQUAL not just POSSIBLE. do something about this.thats all i have 2 say

I want to tell you this. It is true that to start pvping with the warrior class is easier than other classes. But! To master a class it's all about the same, I don't want to say it but there is something that only maximum of 3 overlords I have pvped with in the game can do fluently now while others can't that means to know more of the warrior class's ability it still takes some efforts. It is true that to continue locks with SD is a crazy advantage but as overlords usually we won't do hammer sd infinity locks with gust slashes because we try to be a better pvper than just using locks. For me even in group fights I am always uncertain to use locks or not and sometimes get killed in the process =.= I would still launch them up to give them chance to escape after even in group fights. Anyways in group fights I guess it's ok to lock, but in 1v1 if you pvp an overlord that only sd you and infinity lock you then he definitely is not a good overlord. Most classes have some ways of locking someone to death so I think it is fine as it is now. And in stacked pvp fights at high level, we are not that much at advantage since we are given the weakness of unable to escape and take all hits without movement speed unless you give up a lot stats for it. About sd there are many ways to go against it and you can practices to dodge it too. Some skills has super armor through all casting or given a short frame of armor those can be used to counter sd. It is possible to dodge or counter both SD and stumble it just takes practices. It is fine to increase SD's cooldown but stumble is like one of our class's advantages that can't be just taken away unless given a new offensive attack skill that has super armor to help us prevent getting caught. Given we can't dodge, can't block, not as much movement speed unless we give up stats we really need, stumble is an useful offensive skill to help us now not to mention that almost all of our skills can be countered too easily straight on by some classes. About the stumble's aim debuff, we have already suggest to change it to evade debuff which makes more sense for overlords offensive class anyways(We want to hit, not dodge XD).

You said as a sin,rouge,specialist,and PF warriors just have 2 much of everything 2 make them too good to pvp against. But that's not true xd in stacked fights we have hard time too cause our weakness is lower mobility while attacking because we can't land attacks or traps to lock the area and dance around. And I already said we can't block, dodge and don't have an escape skill or traps to land beside to have a single chance to escape once caught so it is fair =P.

Edited by OFireO, 03 January 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[Bryant90]

I want to tell you this. It is true that to start pvping with the warrior class is easier than other classes. But! To master a class it's all about the same, I don't want to say it but there is something that only maximum of 3 overlords I have pvped with in the game can do fluently now while others can't that means to know more of the warrior class's ability it still takes some efforts. It is true that to continue locks with SD is a crazy advantage but as overlords usually we won't do hammer sd infinity locks with gust slashes because we try to be a better pvper than just using locks. For me even in group fights I am always uncertain to use locks or not and sometimes get killed in the process =.= I would still launch them up to give them chance to escape after even in group fights. Anyways in group fights I guess it's ok to lock, but in 1v1 if you pvp an overlord that only sd you and infinity lock you then he definitely is not a good overlord. Most classes have some ways of locking someone to death so I think it is fine as it is now. And in stacked pvp fights at high level, we are not that much at advantage since we are given the weakness of unable to escape and take all hits without movement speed unless you give up a lot stats for it. About sd there are many ways to go against it and you can practices to dodge it too. Some skills has super armor through all casting or given a short frame of armor those can be used to counter sd. It is possible to dodge or counter both SD and stumble it just takes practices. It is fine to increase SD's cooldown but stumble is like one of our class's advantages that can't be just taken away unless given a new offensive attack skill that has super armor to help us prevent getting caught. Given we can't dodge, can't block, not as much movement speed unless we give up stats we really need, stumble is an useful offensive skill to help us now not to mention that almost all of our skills can be countered too easily straight on by some classes. About the stumble's aim debuff, we have already suggest to change it to evade debuff which makes more sense for overlords offensive class anyways(We want to hit, not dodge XD).

You said as a sin,rouge,specialist,and PF warriors just have 2 much of everything 2 make them too good to pvp against. But that's not true xd in stacked fights we have hard time too cause our weakness is lower mobility while attacking because we can't land attacks or traps to lock the area and dance around. And I already said we can't block, dodge and don't have an escape skill or traps to land beside to have a single chance to escape once caught so it is fair =P.

^ Agreed

[GrapefruitGod]

Only weakness warriors have is the 2 seconds of opportunity you get if they miss a swords dance.

[Jumpluffspore]

Guys help my catching skill has a cool down of a lengthy 3 seconds and it's not like I have a 360 degree stun or anything /seriously now/ Both the classes have op aspects: Pally...I'm not entirely sure how to fix this without making them awful. Myrm: Just make stumble take away aim and maybe fiddle with sword dance a bit.

[Bryant90]

Both
~~~~
Increase Sword Dance Cooldown.

Dragoon
~~~~~~~
Make Perry Active skill that you have to time to make it nullify an attack, or just take it out. I wont use it either way.
Make Spin It Bear's Hitbox just its body instead of it's current endless Height.
Take out Mega Storm Blade or make it passive like others have suggested.
Remove Barricade's Heal. I don't plan on using the skill anyways. From PvPing Pallys/Goons on other chars, I've noticed it's annoying when they run and go into it to heal.

Overlord
~~~~~~~~
Lower Stumblebum's Aim Drop.
Maybe Change Gambles 2 Buffs that increase Atk/Matk and Def/Mdef to be Total instead of Base.

[OFireO]

Only weakness warriors have is the 2 seconds of opportunity you get if they miss a swords dance.

Ahh I spent so long to reply to this cause what you said is completely wrong and how you still get +2 lol?? That's troll
I erased everything and retype my reply now xdd.
I will just say for overlords, we have way more weakness than that and you must know it too. SD is good but it isn't OP.
5 invokers vs 5 overlords invokers win~
5 Warmages vs 5 overlords Warmages win~
SD isn't that op to change everything around.

Edited by OFireO, 03 January 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[StormHaven]

Ahh I spent so long to reply to this cause what you said is completely wrong and how you still get +2 lol?? That's troll
I erased everything and retype my reply now xdd.
I will just say for overlords, we have way more weakness than that and you must know it too. SD is good but it isn't OP.
5 invokers vs 5 overlords invokers win~
5 Warmages vs 5 overlords Warmages win~
SD isn't that op to change everything around.

5 stumbles.... 5 wyvern blades.... 5 SD's.... o god.. that's so much worse than 5 WMs in my book..

Edited by StormHaven, 03 January 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[Jumpluffspore]

Ahh I spent so long to reply to this cause what you said is completely wrong and how you still get +2 lol?? That's troll
I erased everything and retype my reply now xdd.
I will just say for overlords, we have way more weakness than that and you must know it too. SD is good but it isn't OP.
5 invokers vs 5 overlords invokers win~
5 Warmages vs 5 overlords Warmages win~
SD isn't that op to change everything around.

Those two scenarios are never going to happen, besides you can infi air juggle with that combo easy. Nilla knows what he's talking about yet again. I've played a glad before and I probably play it better than half the overlords, played you before, you were good I guess, but still, sword dance is beyond op. It's easy to play without sd and stumblebum. I don't even know why they're there.

Edited by Jumpluffspore, 03 January 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[GrapefruitGod]

The reason you have issues isn't because of the warrior class, it's because of you. Let me put this in simple terms for you.
You need to learn what other classes can and can't do and then learn what the player will and won't do. You have to learn how what you're playing against works so you don't put yourself in a bad position, which happens all too often to a large number of people I see pvp. There's a reason Kazra gave me trouble on his myrm, because he knows just this.

[OFireO]

5 stumbles.... 5 wyvern blades.... 5 SD's.... o god.. that's so much worse than 5 WMs in my book..

Those two scenarios are never going to happen, besides you can infi air juggle with that combo easy. Nilla knows what he's talking about yet again. I've played a glad before and I probably play it better than half the overlords, played you before, you were good I guess, but still, sword dance is beyond op. It's easy to play without sd and stumblebum. I don't even know why they're there.

The reason you have issues isn't because of the warrior class, it's because of you. Let me put this in simple terms for you.
You need to learn what other classes can and can't do and then learn what the player will and won't do. You have to learn how what you're playing against works so you don't put yourself in a bad position, which happens all too often to a large number of people I see pvp. There's a reason Kazra gave me trouble on his myrm, because he knows just this.

@Storm, oh no I don't think you should be saying that xdd, and think as an overlord in this case not as an archer with higher movement speed. Would you rather get caught once and freeze to death every round or get SD and stormed while you have team mates with lightning ball to help you? When freeze can hold the oppponent(s) there and give the user some time to dance around then refreeze, it is easier for WMs to dance around with Bliizards and Ice balls than Overlords I think this is common sense(sure we can sd and run around and come back in time to gust slash but HEY!! 5 ice balls and each shooting 6 directions good range frozen shots that flinchs you, I can't believe you just said that A few frozen shots flinches means freeze after that when you have that many wms on the field). Go play an overlord in that fight you will understand xd. When the whole field is only AOE attacks no matter how pro how skilled you are you still gonna get shot by those ice shots, stumble disabled, clouds everywhere shooting at you and eventually get freezed and once freezed you can go make your tea because you can almost be sure that you will die. Freeze is way more scary then SD xD Even if it's to back up your guildie or your friend or whatever this is something too crazy to say. You can say it easy but come and try an overlord and see it for yourself. Maybe you are not trying to back nilla up but when you reply my post please think enough You will be surprised how much time I take to ask different good pvpers for opinions, think, type, edit, edit and edit again before my whole post is completed(It's not like I won't make mistakes but I think for both sides to find out what I think is fair and try my best to explain. When someone disagrees with me I don't just continue saying my points are right, I stop completely and rethink again as that player's class or all other classes and ask for opinions of good players(not only your friends or guildies).

I will say something more at the end so read all of the post ok?xd

@ Jumpluffspore, actually one of them happened, 5 wms against 5 overlords happened, and yes we can win as well but if you think about all the ice balls, all the blizzards, all the penguins and peppers XD I don't know which place is a safe place to stand haha xD slow debuff all the way. And we tried a few games, we won only maybe 2 rounds in those games. And you said it as if it's easy to get all 5 wms in one place to storm combos lol(The chance of all 5 wms to be in one place is slim, because they don't need to be in range to do their attacks). Thank you for guessing that maybe I am good lol? But I am totally different from before. You say you played better than half of the overlords then how about now?Xd It's different now. And yeah sure I can also play without SD or stumble but are you confident that you can go against all class without them? Are you sure you can win? Don't say yes cause it will never happen. And No Nilla doesn't know what he's saying and you don't either, he said that our ONLY weakness is when we miss that SD? Don't you think that's too much?

@Nillachan, Seriously every single time when I disagree something you say you say it's because of me as if I NEVER LEARNED what other classes can do and can't do or LEARN what the player will and won't do. I probably have played the game as long as you or even longer sine I played the Taiwanese version before NA Beta came out in THQ and I have always always try to learn different ways of dealing with other classes. I have said it in the earlier post as well, It is a choice of playing styles, yes I play suicidelly ok? XDD I will tell you ONE LAST TIME XD I do understand what you are trying to say and I can tell you I ALREADY knew of the ways but it is simply a choice of playing style(I don't want and expect you to know how I restrict myself into not using some skills in certain times but I want to let you know that I know of the things you said). If you still refuse to understand what I am saying this time then I can't say anything else to you I guess. And I probably have to throw what you said back at you because You getting caught by SD while having so high movement speed is your fault of getting into range at the wrong time, which means you don't know well enough how to deal with SD(Maybe even after trying so hard you still couldn't dodge it so now you hate this skill so much you put it so high like it's godly or something).
I don't know what ways Kazra used to win or give you troubles in pvp but I do know ways to pvp against you, but for me I play the way I want to and try to win with the play style I have to have fun.
Anyways back to the point, You all missed my points?(maybe because my english is so bad so it wasn't clear)
Here you go.
Nillachan said: ONLY weakness warriors have is the 2 seconds of opportunity you get if they miss a swords dance.
If that's the case then I could have already beat everyone under evenly stacked condition.
ONLY?
So you are saying that The weakness of Overlords not having enough defensive options is a lie?(The class is to be designed to have less defensive options so I have no problem with it but I don't see how you can say this is not a weakness. And this is referring to both 1v1 and group fight, so don't just go tell me you just have to learn better at the classes cause you know how group fights are.) If you all really believe that line Nillachan posted was true then reply to me again to tell me that I will make a list of Overlord's weakness and you think hard to see if I am telling truth or not.

And about SD,yes I know all the effects of SD and how useful it is to catch, It would be good if they add animation in and increase cooldown but still cancel-able for SD. But to rate SD this high I want to say have you guys gone crazy? >.< I can make a good list of skills that can be called god skills if SD were called OP.

I post to suggest what I think is fair, and yes I do make mistakes and I do correct them. It's funny how no one else disagrees with me right now but only you 2 and nilla from ASC. I may be wrong in thinking that you guys just try to back nilla up but I want to ask you guys, when you discuss these kind of things, do you actually go ask around some good players who's not even your friend or your guildies, and think for both sides other than just trying to change it to your liking so it's easier for you to deal with?

Your complaining about SD, I give you back this xd "You have to learn how what you're playing against works so you don't put yourself in a bad position."

Edited by OFireO, 04 January 2012 - 02:34 AM.

[Bryant90]

Like how they added Stun to Violent Blow in the Infil tree.
I get Stun Locked so much from Infils on my Knight and Twin becuz they just Rocket>Violent>Ambush>Violent>ambush and so on. Its real annoying.

[GrapefruitGod]

Playing for a long time doesn't mean anything. With that logic Prinz should be one of the best in the game. Pfs have no room to complain? I've played with every class, and against every class. SD is the easiest catch move in the game, and you can't deny that. I didn't complain about swords dance, I just keep pointing out how much of an easy button it is. I was one of the people that actually suggested increasing the cooldown to tesla too so I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't even know why I continue to reply to you, you're too stubborn to even consider what people who don't agree with you say. If you think your class has so many weaknesses, then just go reroll a dragoon already.

[OFireO]

Playing for a long time doesn't mean anything. With that logic Prinz should be one of the best in the game. Pfs have no room to complain? I've played with every class, and against every class. SD is the easiest catch move in the game, and you can't deny that. I didn't complain about swords dance, I just keep pointing out how much of an easy button it is. I was one of the people that actually suggested increasing the cooldown to tesla too so I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't even know why I continue to reply to you, you're too stubborn to even consider what people who don't agree with you say. If you think your class has so many weaknesses, then just go reroll a dragoon already.

I was hoping you wont say that first line cause I could have just typed in that not only i play long time i gained alot experiences was just lazy to type itxd
Sorry about it then Didn't know you suggest to adding cooldown to Tesla as well that's my mistake of not opening my eyes wide enough to find your suggestions xd. And it is not true I don't consider what people who don't agree with what I say. I am saying that the statement you made about warriors ONLY weakness is wrong and I said I can make a list doesn't mean that we have soooo many weakness that we are too weak. I am SAYING the statement you had the ONLY is wrong.
And I don't mean just because I play longer means I am better, I am just saying don't underestimate me being not trying to learn all classes things I just didn't put it right due to my poor English. Now I want to ask you what do you want SD to be like then? If it were to changed so it can be seen and longer cooldown would you be fine with that? I just got ticked by the statement of 2 secs thingy...
Dragoon is not my style not going to main that and I say we overlords have weakness but I didn't mean we only have weakness we have strong points too and I like this class so I continue.
Yes I admit SD being the easiest catch and you gotta admit that your statement was crazy #11 lol

Edited by OFireO, 05 January 2012 - 01:03 AM.

[Jumpluffspore]

Because sd is the easiest catch and you have decent dps skill combos, that's your only real weakness. Just because you have useless passives doesn't mean that your class is weak. All the classes(pretty sure anyways) have at least one useless passive.

[OFireO]

Because sd is the easiest catch and you have decent dps skill combos, that's your only real weakness. Just because you have useless passives doesn't mean that your class is weak. All the classes(pretty sure anyways) have at least one useless passive.

Is this trolling? lol What you said aren't weakness they are strong points of Overlords. Yes, I know every class has at least one useless passive, but if you go over the whole tree of overlords you will find more than 5 skills useless or not effective including active and passive, I was suggesting to make the passives more useful that's it and if it's needed we can nerf our buffs as well to balance it. So nerf some buffs and make passive more useful, make some active skills more useful. I don't mind having one or two useless passives. I am just saying that it's not really nice when we don't have as many skills and still got so many useless passives not like I am saying overlords are completely bad now they are actually quite good now. I don't mean Overlords are too weak, I am just saying don't put it as if Overlords have no weaknesses or only have one weakness because it's just not right. =P

Edited by OFireO, 05 January 2012 - 12:56 AM.

[Jumpluffspore]

Is this trolling? lol What you said aren't weakness they are strong points of Overlords. Yes, I know every class has at least one useless passive, but if you go over the whole tree of overlords you will find more than 5 skills useless or not effective including active and passive, I was suggesting to make the passives more useful that's it and if it's needed we can nerf our buffs as well to balance it. So nerf some buffs and make passive more useful, make some active skills more useful. I don't mind having one or two useless passives. I am just saying that it's not really nice when we don't have as many skills and still got so many useless passives not like I am saying overlords are completely bad now they are actually quite good now. I don't mean Overlords are too weak, I am just saying don't put it as if Overlords have no weaknesses or only have one weakness because it's just not right. =P

The sd cd is pretty much their only weakness. Putting mobility as a weakness makes no sense, as movement speed stacking is quite possible and results in devastating effects. I just feel like the class shouldn't change at all. By the way, how much testing have you done with your "useless" actives? You'd be surprised how some skills can be used.