139 replies to this topic

[Inubashiri]

Your poor weekends heim! I wanna think of solutions to this problem too.

I shall do the same, lets do the Ragnarok Mind Meld and come up with a good solution!

[Kagrra]

If the seals roll less often because no one can make then we need to be sure everyone has a valid chance to cash in on the seal quests when they are open. That is the logic of upping to 100.

I'm really grateful for this change, actually. Seeing as I don't care about WoE or God Items, but the quest rewards, it's nicer for those of us who want to do the quests but don't care about God Items at all.
It's nice to see the GMs thinking about us, those who don't give a crap about petty WoE problems or God Items or the sort, yet still want to do those quests for the rewards of ANY seal. I must say, thank you.

Edited by Kagrra, 05 August 2011 - 06:51 PM.

[epikhigh]

all you have to do is pay animosity to make it for you shadow, just don't get it stolen by your ally legends. Although, they might ask to you to pay more since it's 100 now /ok. Beggers can't be choosers. QQ =(

[Ardi]

Some of the events could be things like "double points" for completing the seal.
Upping the rewards for a week.
Free Resets perhaps.
And potentially doing WoE events again.

(we did give free resets.., and we did help the seals roll every week for many months, you don't think all the seal counts were only from players did you? Many times we went in and add 5 here and there after VIP the need was much reduced because the rewards were increased to such a level that everyone wanted to push through.)

For the quicker internet, aside from adding a random timer to entry, what is it you think is fair? Most everything that uses the same general outline of item creation is always going to suffer from someone that doesn't have as long of load times being advantaged. Right now the method that is likely to best serve is to get it so no one has items left so just take your leisure.

Just a question... are you going to limit how many times a guild (or person) can take advantage of these improved rewards (if they happen) because last time... you did.

[CyFire]

I just seems that everything is always rolled towards thebigger guilds advantage. It's how it went with Insurrection and now it appears towardsAnimosity. I do know that making a God item should be hard but if the largerguilds get the advantage until they have finished with all their stuff thensuddenly it reverts to being even harder. It leaves the smaller guilds thinking conspiracy.

I will do my best to think on solutions to this but thetiming of this just seems a bit unfair.

[renouille]

If the seals roll less often because no one can make then we need to be sure everyone has a valid chance to cash in on the seal quests when they are open.

So why not reopen the seals if they all stay released for, say, 24-48 hours? If that happens it's almost certainly a safe bet that the seals weren't pushed by people attempting to make an item, so you wouldn't be shortchanging anyone. And, it has the added benefit of not being grossly unfair to those who do care about god items but aren't fortunate enough to be in the alliance with 63 out of the 72 god items (re)made since the whole thing went into "easy mode."

[StStephen]

I just seems that everything is always rolled towards thebigger guilds advantage. It's how it went with Insurrection and now it appears towardsAnimosity. I do know that making a God item should be hard but if the largerguilds get the advantage until they have finished with all their stuff thensuddenly it reverts to being even harder. It leaves the smaller guilds thinking conspiracy.

I will do my best to think on solutions to this but thetiming of this just seems a bit unfair.

This is exactly how I feel about, +1

[Nuhasna]

Tokens for pushing the seals would be ok IF the tokens couldn't be traded/sold. I don't want the tokens to be a new currency for seal pushing, it shouldn't be a sellable mercenary project. (even though it could be interesting I think it would turn out poorly in retrospect).

I don't see why this is such a bad idea?
Being able to sell/trade off a token, isn't really all that much different from turning a profit on selling the OCA or random gear/weapon you obtain as the other rewards.
And if it was required to turn in 50 (or 100) of each token from each seal, so 200 (or 400) tokens then somehow a guild, or player would need to be able to gather the required tokens. It wouldn't be an easy job, you could possibly do it overtime by doing the seals yourself, or having friends help and passing the tokens to you. And then you can just buy others your missing from other players.
And more than likely the players selling these tokens would be the very few on the server that are either doing the quests as they are for the rewards, with no interest in creating items at all, to these players, tokens would be worthless. If they had the ability to trade/sell them, its just another added reward to doing the quest.
Most likely the problem you seem to be anticipating are certain groups then doing the quests in order to sell creations.
This would be a hard thing to prevent, but why's it such a bad thing? At least then theres still seal activity and it gives players another option of 'hiring' a team to create their item. Theres plenty of small situations where players pay other players for ingame services and such, my potting is just one of many examples, why's this a bad thing? It promotes community interaction.


I think another issue that was coming up with the token idea, was that a group of people could then potentially make 2 items per roll, if they indeed did push every single quest.
One way that could perhaps prevent this would be to add in the token, and remove the creation process at the dwarf when seals release. And instead once all seals release, they all just reset without doing a creation. Then the process repeats handing out more tokens.
During the process once enough tokens are amassed for a single creation, they could be taken at any time to some npc and create an item.
This would remove the whole chance of all work being 'stolen' at the critical moment. And its also open and fair to all large and small groups to achieve.

I'm really grateful for this change, actually. Seeing as I don't care about WoE or God Items, but the quest rewards, it's nicer for those of us who want to do the quests but don't care about God Items at all.
It's nice to see the GMs thinking about us, those who don't give a crap about petty WoE problems or God Items or the sort, yet still want to do those quests for the rewards of ANY seal. I must say, thank you.

While the change might work great for you, you need to consider it from every aspect.
Also you play Ymir? If your supporting this change for 'ANY seal' why arn't you single handedly pushing the seals? Or is it only 2nd seal your really after? =p

[Xellie]

regarding selling tokens : Big guilds would be at even more of an advantage that way, they'd be able to pay more than any small guild, and people should work for their item, not just buy it. (and yes, that's a shot at RMTers who would just buy zeny to buy tokens who probably buy god items with cash now)

[Wiggles]

regarding selling tokens : Big guilds would be at even more of an advantage that way, they'd be able to pay more than any small guild, and people should work for their item, not just buy it. (and yes, that's a shot at RMTers who would just buy zeny to buy tokens who probably buy god items with cash now)

Why can a big guild pay more than a small guild?


Because they worked to get big?
Because they earned their money?

They worked for it, they should get rewarded for it.

Edited by Wiggles, 05 August 2011 - 07:58 PM.

[Kagrra]

While the change might work great for you, you need to consider it from every aspect.
Also you play Ymir? If your supporting this change for 'ANY seal' why arn't you single handedly pushing the seals? Or is it only 2nd seal your really after? =p

Yeah, I'll put it this way, I agree with Xellie, the one sensible person here, on this. You people need to stop QQing. And to frankly put this, flame me, insult me, or do anything; I simply won't care. It's my opinion, stop making me try to change it for your QQing.

[Xellie]

Why can a big guild pay more than a small guild?


Because they worked to get big?
Because they earned their money?

They worked for it, they should get rewarded for it.

Zeny makes zeny, once you have a lot its easy to get more.

I can turn 1bil into 10bil in 2 weeks. But I cant turn 500mil into a bil in a week.The advantage a guild gains is exponential.

I personally think gods items should be be worked for not bought, I dont care if you did 10million hours in ET for that zeny. Other people could spend 10million hours WoEing for those items. or 10millon horus questing.

ok well I'm one of the people that would buy the tokens to create an item. I don't woe and I'm sitting on guildfunds from years. I hardly play, should I be able to log on and just buy crap to get an item made?

I kinda see that as wrong.

But hey.... I should be ok with it. I only got 6 god items atm, I always could use more without putting effort in.

Edited by Xellie, 05 August 2011 - 08:20 PM.

[renouille]

I can turn 1bil into 10bil in 2 weeks.

Share please.

So far I've only figured out how to instantly turn 4bil into 200mil. IIRC I did it sometime last year, the day they put in the raffle without warning.

should I be able to log on and just buy crap to get an item made?

I kinda see that as wrong.

But you can already do that at a local Animosity's. The nerf isn't going to change that--it's just going to make the price higher.

[Inubashiri]

Zeny makes zeny, once you have a lot its easy to get more.

I can turn 1bil into 10bil in 2 weeks. But I cant turn 500mil into a bil in a week.The advantage a guild gains is exponential.

I personally think gods items should be be worked for not bought, I dont care if you did 10million hours in ET for that zeny. Other people could spend 10million hours WoEing for those items. or 10millon horus questing.

ok well I'm one of the people that would buy the tokens to create an item. I don't woe and I'm sitting on guildfunds from years. I hardly play, should I be able to log on and just buy crap to get an item made?

I kinda see that as wrong.

But hey.... I should be ok with it. I only got 6 god items atm, I always could use more without putting effort in.

So yeah, we're best buds right?

[Xellie]

Share please.

So far I've only figured out how to instantly turn 4bil into 200mil. IIRC I did it sometime last year, the day they put in the raffle without warning.


But you can already do that at a local Animosity's. The nerf isn't going to change that--it's just going to make the price higher.

Which is exactly why poor people should be able to work their ass off and get it, and rich people should have to work their ass off the same.

[peeweehonda]

If the god items aren't being created anymore (the seal rolling has slowed ALOT) then keeping them at the lower level isn't doing anything.

We need to get all the servers in tandem with their quests and scripts as it improves our ability to do events relating to it with less errors cropping up. It is more likely we can do rolling events if they are at 100 seals than at 50, and I would rather add some spice into it at intervals than just have it be 50 seal rolls with no events accompanying it.

There is plenty of time between now and the 23rd to roll the seals and make your god items.

well then heimdallr the way u and your staff r thinking is dumb keep it at 50and make it so when a giuld trys roling the seals no other giuld can stop them

[Freedom]

ok, here is an idea that may work.


How about each time the guild does a seal run they get a token under the guild name. None tradeable, none sellable, plus Char bound. You have to do the seals at least 200 times to turn in the token to a npc. each person that turn in a token gets warped to another npc. They wait there till everyone has turned in there token. The guild leader talks to the npc and opens a portal, so everyone can go in. Once in there the map will spawn some high lvl monsters of all different types. Once you have killed all those monsters it will summon a mvp, say valk. Once that is dead you can make your god item. This way its still a group effort and hard to do. Plus takes a while to do. I think this would be a fair way to keep everyone happy. You can even put a time limit on it like 30 min or 1 hour on this. That way it depends on how good the guild is.

[Anko]

ok, here is an idea that may work.


How about each time the guild does a seal run they get a token under the guild name. None tradeable, none sellable, plus Char bound. You have to do the seals at least 200 times to turn in the token to a npc. each person that turn in a token gets warped to another npc. They wait there till everyone has turned in there token. The guild leader talks to the npc and opens a portal, so everyone can go in.

I agree that if competition is removed, then requirements should go up but doesn't what you propose require quests done on 200 separate accounts? Even the big guilds might struggle with that. O_o

[AimeeZ]

Some of the events could be things like "double points" for completing the seal.
Upping the rewards for a week.
Free Resets perhaps.
And potentially doing WoE events again.

(we did give free resets.., and we did help the seals roll every week for many months, you don't think all the seal counts were only from players did you? Many times we went in and add 5 here and there after VIP the need was much reduced because the rewards were increased to such a level that everyone wanted to push through.)

For the quicker internet, aside from adding a random timer to entry, what is it you think is fair? Most everything that uses the same general outline of item creation is always going to suffer from someone that doesn't have as long of load times being advantaged. Right now the method that is likely to best serve is to get it so no one has items left so just take your leisure.

when were we given free resets? i just came back to the game and all my characters were still clicked through on each quest for god items. so did my accounts have to be paid for and active at that time for the free resets?

[DeltaRay]

when were we given free resets? i just came back to the game and all my characters were still clicked through on each quest for god items. so did my accounts have to be paid for and active at that time for the free resets?

I think he means the free reset post merge I dont recall getting resets after that though.

[Hrothmund]

regarding selling tokens : Big guilds would be at even more of an advantage that way, they'd be able to pay more than any small guild, and people should work for their item, not just buy it. (and yes, that's a shot at RMTers who would just buy zeny to buy tokens who probably buy god items with cash now)

As a player who has absolutely no interest in making god items myself, I love the idea of tokens. Its about the only way you'll get non-involved regular players to roll seal 3+4 (even tho 3 is really worthwhile lol). I see no problem with mercenary contracts (aka tokens) its a way to get players who are otherwise not involved in the process to take part. Even if they are char bound guilds will still pay players to come and use them anyway most likely.

Heck you could replace the KVM badges with that, at least for a while. The only real problem i'd see with tradeable tokens is people botting the seals. Also you dont neccessiraly need to make it 400 quests = 400 tokens = roll. If its in conjunction with regular rolls you could make it like 5000 tokens and people would still clamour for them.

I'd just like to also say that no matter what the outcome, size +zeni will ALWAYS be an advantage. If being smaller were an advantage the big group would just split into small teams and still have an advantage of multiple entries.

Edited by Hrothmund, 06 August 2011 - 06:33 PM.

[Xellie]

I'd be a buyer and I don't like it ;p

[Freedom]

If not char bound then account bound. It has to be non tradable tho. It will keep the selling them down. It woul dnot change much then the way it is now when a guild pays another 5 or more bil to make thiers. This is the only solution I can think of.

[Hrothmund]

I just see it as unneccessarily excluding a large part of the playerbase. seal2 has the awesome reward, seal1 is pretty great seal3 is good but requires a bit of effort so no-one does it and seal4 costs more than you get back normally so again no-one does it.

Adding another incentive to casual players to do seals isnt a bad thing. I'd much rather see all the seals released waiting for a guild to gather a god set than the situation we have now. "too many god items" balance issues went out the window as soon as Atrocity alliance started making theirs.

If the tokens were tradable they could increase the quest amount to 200 per seal o.o

Edited by Hrothmund, 06 August 2011 - 10:06 PM.

[AimeeZ]

just make all the quests give insane exp and an oca and a level 4 weapon. and while we're at it, take away the items needed to do the seals (the fish items, the other crap, the level 4 weapon that might break). and make a vip warper to warp everyone to the exact spot they need to go for each part of the quest.

actual suggestion unlike the above one: instead of making it 50 (or 100) clicks through each seal 1, 2, 3, 4 make it 200 (or 400) clicks through any combinations of the seals. the halfway and closed announcements can still appear to give warning but all seals should stay open and people can pick what they want to do. is that even programmable? i think that's a viable solution since people seem more invested in doing seal 2 than anything else atm. and it makes kafra shop cash.

Edited by AimeeZ, 08 August 2011 - 02:23 AM.