489 replies to this topic

[CeruleanGamer]

I wish my ranked whites healed at least 5k HP.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

What if they disable the effect for the hats? since it's an event hat, it shouldn't work for any other seasons or just change it's effect for something else...

That makes the hat worthless, and is pretty unfair to those of us who use it legitimately. Some of us spent a lot of zeny and rl money to buy or upgrade those hats for what they are worth now. If you make it so they only work on st. patrick's day, then they suddenly become situational and all that money goes to waste.

[Mayhem]

I agree something should be done and was actually disheartened when I saw that the actions were scratched out afte the patch last tues. Everyone that says its good for the community or such just doesnt care about the community much. Something that as even the gm say, has increased botting, should just be taken out of game or swapped back to its purpose as an event type of headgear.

This would also be nice because next holiday its active gms can just ban everyone with the hats botting and thus get rid of some of those people.

Over all I loved the idea of it just like most of you did. I mean really, who doesnt like using them? But like giving a five year old a barrel of candy it is just as bad for us. People abused it and it needs to be taken care of.

To the gms: I think you should take what action you see fit on things like this. Like being a boss/parent, you just have to be the bad guy sometimes for the good of what your running. The things you came up with should have BOTH been put in last week. Or this coming tuesday. Just raise the weight, make the ales non tradable that are left, and turn the hat off till next holiday.
I do think you should implement other hats like this, for fun, and only make them holiday or monthly things.

For those of you that say it makes the hat worthless. Why should this hat be ANY different than any other event exp hat or event hat. Also the item it drops is better than what an alchemist can make or anything you can grab in game. It was nice for an event. And hopefully would be turned on next year.

[Hinkypunk]

What if they disable the effect for the hats? since it's an event hat, it shouldn't work for any other seasons or just change it's effect for something else...

Unlike the Scallywag Hat, Red Pirate Bandana, or Baby Dragon Hat that were sold in Kafra Shop with the bonus exp attribute clearly disclaimed as being only for the duration of the given event, there was no such disclaimer on the St. Patrick's Hat. If it had not been offered in the Kafra Shop--and was instead an item obtained only through questing, then I'd say the possible solution of changing the attributes of the hat would be viable, but that's not the case.

[JStoneheart]

I thought St. Patrick's hat was account bound originally O.o

[Inubashiri]

What if they disable the effect for the hats? since it's an event hat, it shouldn't work for any other seasons or just change it's effect for something else...

The answer was in the OP.

Alternatives:

3. Disable the St Patricks Hat : This was considered, but since the hat was upgraded it causes problems with compensation with debuffing a hat, and truly punishes everyone.

Edited by Inubashiri, 04 November 2011 - 10:21 AM.

[Wizard]

Unlike the Scallywag Hat, Red Pirate Bandana, or Baby Dragon Hat that were sold in Kafra Shop with the bonus exp attribute clearly disclaimed as being only for the duration of the given event, there was no such disclaimer on the St. Patrick's Hat. If it had not been offered in the Kafra Shop--and was instead an item obtained only through questing, then I'd say the possible solution of changing the attributes of the hat would be viable, but that's not the case.

Yeah but at this rate... no one will be happy for any decision taken by GM's, therefore the most viable solution will be eliminating the root cause of everything... which is the hat itself.

In any case, what other choices do we have or do they have? perhaps just waiting until next year's event and then they can put a nerf after the event is over? somehow is kinda late to nerf or disable the hat.

[Chicboy]

Common HeimDollar do OPTION #5 already and remove yggseed drops from aligators and stem worms!!!! that should make WOE interesting.

[Lambor]

I think the problem has already been solved. Give the servers a few weeks to settle and you'll see Ales shops dropping like flies.

[Falcifer]

I hope you're right. The only problem I ever had with ales was it severely cut vital practices in WoE, such as strategy and team work. Nowadays, anyone with 1k ales and extreme equipment on their character can tank most DPS classes all day and carry on with their goal.

[iZola]

To those worried about the mix of Gfist and Ales, it's the least of the worries.
To use gfist:
Zen (20 SP) - > Fury (15 SP) - > Zen (20 SP) - > Gfist (Needs only 1 SP to be used)
So, you only need 56 SP to spam gfist, which can be earned through many other recovery items.
Or just sit for 30 seconds with Spiritual Cadence lv5.

[Moogle]

I think the way to solve the problem is to get to the root of the problem...which is the hat. The hat is the real cause of the problem and not the legitimate players in the game. By making the items account bound is really gonna affect people because if they are not tradeable, people who have a heap of green ales will have a big advantage in woe. Since the only way is to get them now while they are still tradeable would really put a disadvantage to alot of woe guilds. If GM's disable the effects of the hat, the problem would be solved. People can still use the items in the game and bots can not abuse the hats anymore. This seems to be the more logical approach.

[epikhigh]

I don't get what's the big deal about it..... leave the issue as it is...... until the balance patch comes out. how hard is that?! Q___________________________Q

[Masterpiece]

In the end we need to make sure that the Green Ales are not short circuiting the Potting System due to how good they are, and we need to be sure that those willing to cheat are not getting unduely benefitted from the Green Ale items.

If it realy wasn't intended to replace any in game items, then the only solution in my opinion would be to reduce the healing amounts to 10% instead of 50%. This would reduce the price of the item while still making it usefull.

I have +7 St. Patricks Hat's and they hardly ever drop any Ales. Also most of the guild's I've been in still use White Slims. It may be an issue for other servers but potting in ymir is still growing strong to the point that slims cost as much as mastelas. I'm on Ymir and although I know that people abuse ales, the "ales undercutting the potting industry" arguement isn't valid in ymir. Neither should we be punished for the issues concearning other servers. Although if ales were removed, the poting industry would grow; I still believe that our current system from a marketing stand point is fine.

I would ask that you increase the drop rate so that normal players could get some ales; although, since you are considering nerfing ales, I don't think that's happening.

I would also argue that bots would just continue collecting ales till they're "in season" and sell them off. So realy I believe that you may be looking for a quick fix when there realy isn't one. Instead you need to come up with a solution to stop ale/blank card farming. Which, I believe would be the whole disabling the early level maps from dropping them and actualy instead making them only droppable in heavy traffic areas; so that, people can report the bots they notice. I know that Vakyrie people will probably not like this idea because they dont wan't thier leveling maps to be overrun by bots. But the whole point of this is so you can report them, and if you don't then that's on you.

I don't know if any of this has already been suggested because I dont feel like sifting through all the other opions, as valuable as they may be.

[Mefistofeles]

If it realy wasn't intended to replace any in game items, then the only solution in my opinion would be to reduce the healing amounts to 10% instead of 50%. This would reduce the price of the item while still making it usefull.

I have +7 St. Patricks Hat's and they hardly ever drop any Ales. Also most of the guild's I've been in still use White Slims. It may be an issue for other servers but potting in ymir is still growing strong to the point that slims cost as much as mastelas. I'm on Ymir and although I know that people abuse ales, the "ales undercutting the potting industry" arguement isn't valid in ymir. Neither should we be punished for the issues concearning other servers. Although if ales were removed, the poting industry would grow; I still believe that our current system from a marketing stand point is fine.

I would ask that you increase the drop rate so that normal players could get some ales; although, since you are considering nerfing ales, I don't think that's happening.

I would also argue that bots would just continue collecting ales till they're "in season" and sell them off. So realy I believe that you may be looking for a quick fix when there realy isn't one. Instead you need to come up with a solution to stop ale/blank card farming. Which, I believe would be the whole disabling the early level maps from dropping them and actualy instead making them only droppable in heavy traffic areas; so that, people can report the bots they notice. I know that Vakyrie people will probably not like this idea because they dont wan't thier leveling maps to be overrun by bots. But the whole point of this is so you can report them, and if you don't then that's on you.

I don't know if any of this has already been suggested because I dont feel like sifting through all the other opions, as valuable as they may be.

what if better only heals hp? the drop rate its retarded low........ i still farming then and some people might too

[Mayhem]

Again. like someone just said above. No one will really be happy no matter which way we go with it.


Just do what needs to be done Hiem.

[Xyst]

Just do what needs to be done Hiem.

That said everything.

[LordVader]

TLDR. Just ban the bots. No need to hurt the gamers for this. Seems awfully over-thought method for getting around it imo.

[ChainDark]

what about those players who are on holiday???
let's face it, it's November a lot of schools are closed for holidays
some players might be on a holiday, on other country with no internet connection
I mean who would want to play games during overseas holiday?

I don't think it's fair for those players who are not well informed
they could enjoy their holiday and the next thing they know are missing ales from their cart
how do you think they'll feel???

deleting ales from carts is just out of question.

[Chipotle]

Altough I def approve this nerf to green ales, healing 60K+ HP with mastelas/condensed whites may take a while. WoE might be much more fun tough!Only time will tell

[NiteWolfX13]

I think the way to solve the problem is to get to the root of the problem...which is the hat. The hat is the real cause of the problem and not the legitimate players in the game. By making the items account bound is really gonna affect people because if they are not tradeable, people who have a heap of green ales will have a big advantage in woe. Since the only way is to get them now while they are still tradeable would really put a disadvantage to alot of woe guilds. If GM's disable the effects of the hat, the problem would be solved. People can still use the items in the game and bots can not abuse the hats anymore. This seems to be the more logical approach.

This. ^

TLDR. Just ban the bots. No need to hurt the gamers for this. Seems awfully over-thought method for getting around it imo.

And this. ^

[dragonmaster731]

The root of the problem is not the hat itself, it is the bot. The main reason why people start bot-ing the Ale more because it is a lot of money and easy to sell. Wasn't spare card a problem on Valk server at one time as well? Just think about it, it isn't the item but the way the bot abuse the item. If there weren't any bot abusing the item I don't think there will be any complain or trouble saying that the item is causing trouble. Normal farming would give around 10 ale per hour. That would be around 1.5mil avg on Ymir and Valk, don't know about Ygg. I could farm other stuff for far more zeny than farming ale.

I just don't get why you guy keep on saying that the root of the problem is the hat...it was never the hat problem, but the bot that is causing the problem. Just like if an alternator die on a car and you keep on changing the car's battery, it'll just help you keep the car running but won't fix the car. The problem is you need to change the alternator.
(Alternator - Is the device that charges the battery)

I can see this happening again down the road if no plan or measurement are taken in on how to deal with bots. To be honest the system you guy having to deal with bot are just horrible right now, doesn't work and just time consuming. Waste of time and effort, just like keep on changing the battery when the alternator is broken.

[Flook]

I would prefer a reuse delay over an increase in weight. We should put a short reuse delay on seeds and berries as well (shared with ale). Even 3 second delay would take away the most unbalancing aspect of ales in woe (the ability to spam them and be immortal). Spamming ales/seeds/berries is really unbalanced, more-so than the light-as-a-feather aspect of green ale.


We do need a larger base-heal potion.

Wait - WE HAVE NEW GENETIC HP REGEN POTIONS!!! Enriched White Potion (or whatever it's named). The problem is that they suck. Modify the healing of the enriched white potion to work like a normal potion (so regen increased by vit, regen potions, etc) and set the base hp regen to like 1k or something.

i would prefer their weight at around 10-15 and the reuse delay at 5-10 sec(you can still carry a bit of them how ever u have to weigh the pros and cons of carrying them, more weight than the slims less than yggs, how ever slims heal less and also u can spam them faster along with yggs albeit their weight being 30, give the players an ultimatum on what to carry)

totally agree with the enriched whites deal +1

[Mayhem]

That said everything.

Ha Thank you.

This Debate: Normally I am always for these debates. But the ABUSE of the hat and ales is a problem. Of course if you look though this, you will see people have come out of hte wood works, some brand new accounts. Why is that? oh because a big portion of the people saying no are the people abusing them. Same analogy as before. If you give a kid a bucket of candy and say go at it, they will love it and try to eat all of it. What if you asked the kid for the bucket back, they would say no.

I am hoping whatever is going to be done about the hat/ale problem is just done on the 8th. And let that be that.

If people are on vacation and not playing then it happens. Its been over a week that the info about the change is coming. And there will of course be a chance next year.

[Kadnya]

~moved to next page ^^;

Edited by Kadnya, 05 November 2011 - 11:09 AM.