489 replies to this topic

[Dreimdal]

In my opinion, there isn't one problem, but several different problems

Absolutely correct.

This is why there's no simple "quick fix" that'll just solve everything in one step.

Many other posters seem to think that we can just solve everything instantly and everything will work out fine in the end. But no, that won't work. This is a multi-faceted problem which will require a multi-faceted solution, as you pointed out in your posting, and those things take time and cannot be solved in a mere week or two...


Now, I disagree with the idea of removing ales from the game (unless acquired through illegitimate means). However I do agree with the overall sentiment you have, which is that we can't just do a couple quick steps and call it a day.

Personally-speaking, I'd prefer not to alter the hat, but if that's what it comes to, I like most of your ideas on which alterations would be suitable. They certainly would disincentivize its use by botters.

Edited by Dreimdal, 05 November 2011 - 11:52 AM.

[Kadnya]

[Ninjamoving the post to new page since nuone reads past pages...]

Just do what needs to be done Hiem.

And what happens if Heim is full of good intentions but doesn't know what has to be done? I feel that this is kinda the case here...



In my opinion, there isn't one problem, but several different problems, and as such, one general solution leaves many people unhappy. Let's see the separated problems:

1) Recovery from potions is too low with the current damage. Probably still too low even after the 'balance patch'. (green ales have been a band-aid fix to this problem all this time)

2) Recovery from green ales is too much to be used like normal potions.

3) St patty hat is being abused by bots (which just move from one abuse to another when one method is stopped).

Maybe, having individual solutions to these problems could leave less damage. for example:

1) Create a new recovery potion which heals 5k~ fixed HP (or whatever amount feels comparable to how condensed whites healed prerenewal charas)

2) Remove the excess of ales so they aren't used as standard superpotions: maybe change them a bit to weight more, or offer certain amount of ales -> certain amount of the new potions exchange (or other valuable items worth as much as an ale), and set a date in which all remaining ales will be removed.

3) Remove the ale dropping function from the st patty's hat. And then replace it with another function or functions which are desirable but much less abusable by bots. Some ideas about its new effect could be for example:

- Provide certain extra exp (maybe between 5%~10% extra exp)
- Give a minor rideword hat effect or maybe a rideword effect but for magic attack
- Add the option to gain extra eden merit badges when doing turn ins
- Add the option to exchange eden merit badges for a small amount of ygg seeds
- Enable the use of greed and teleport
- etc, other desirable effects

(one or more of the previous effects, )

It is true that there are problems with leaving everything as is, but players shouldn't be punished or left without options. And I really, really hope that our GMs are listening for feedback, and maybe make a poll on forums or ingame before deciding the future of ales. Right now the only ones who this decision punishes is the players (even more the players who stocked up or spent time during the event). Bots will just move towards the next target.

Edited by Kadnya, 05 November 2011 - 11:09 AM.

[iZola]

Maybe reduce green ale's healing to 25%?
But also with a high chance of causing stun on those who drink carelessly.

[peeweehonda]

hey hem u want do something clean out edden group so u can go find your quest and get it done

[Kuwano]

Lol, the hat itself already became account bound? Bought it a few hours ago from someone's shop to try out and resell, but can't vend it anymore o.o"

[Okii]

Ales were not in the game before and everything was fine, but now that everyone's had a taste of them they don't want them to go/need some compensation. I bought an unupgraded St Patty's Hat for 35M and got it to +7. Am I crying about it? Am I sitting here asking for something to replace the hat or it's effects? No.
It's a loss in my mind as well, but to me it's something I can get over. I'll just keep it for looks. So what.

GM's do not have to compensate anyone and honestly, if people are gonna QQ about compensation... it's pretty shameful. FYI, User Terms of Agreement say that even your account does not belong to you. So asking for compensation from a hat with some serious effects on the economy (negatively) and gameplay (negatively) is like... uhh lol.

You should be thanking them instead. Prices are gonna go down a lot after this and newer players will be able to afford stuff for the first time in a long time.

So what if you spent a lot on it. Ales need to be changed/removed for obvious reasons.
Other hats lost their effects as well and there wasn't some huge server-wide rant about it. There was no need for compensation.
This is all just really, really dumb.
Everyone knows now not to mess around with St Patty Hats cause they have no idea what they'll be worth in the long run. Have to admit that this change has come about a little too late... but it's a necessary one.

Edited by Okii, 06 November 2011 - 01:09 AM.

[WasabiBen]

IF KOREAN RICE CAKE IS ENABLE THN IS GOOD OSO.... A NEW PLAYER TAT DUN HAVE ALES....IS HARD FOR THEM....EXAMPLE A ROYAL GUARD 20K HP++... HOW U EXPECT THIS RG TO PUMP UP THE HP WITHOUT ALES AND DEPENDS ON WHITE POTS ==.....

[Mhikeey]

Ales were not in the game before and everything was fine, but now that everyone's had a taste of them they don't want them to go/need some compensation.
GM's do not have to compensate anyone and honestly, if people are gonna QQ about compensation or anything... it's shameful.

So what if you spent a lot on it. Ales need to be changed/removed for obvious reasons.
Other hats lose their effects as well and there wasn't some huge server-wide rant about it. There was no need for compensation.
This is all just really, really dumb.

Increase the weight limit of ales to 20 and have them heal 25% max HP/SP or something.

It's pretty obvious that ales have too much effect on the economy and gameplay of iRO.

So you're saying that GMs should just wipe out all the ales even if people spend hours/days farming during the march St patrick's event and spent billions of zeny buying 6 months after?

Basically you want to say "screw you people, I don't care about you. Even if I knew St' patty's were going to be the new spare cards for botters, I still put it in anyway. Now I screwed up. I'll go fix the mess I made by screwing hard working players along with the botters"

Edited by Mhikeey, 06 November 2011 - 01:05 AM.

[Okii]

So you're saying that GMs should just wipe out all the ales even if people spend hours/days farming during the march St patrick's event and spent billions of zeny buying 6 months after?

Basically you want to say "screw you people, I don't care about you. Even if I knew St' patty's were going to be the new spare cards for botters, I still put it in anyway. Now I screwed up. I'll go fix the mess I made by screwing hard working players along with the botters"

You're putting words in my mouth.
I'm saying that crying about it is stupid.

I'm not throwin up my middle finger to ales and all St Patty Hat owners. I have one myself as I stated above.
Spare Cards and St Patty's Hats... that's all everyone talks about when they think of botters.

They are items for everyone. Non botters enjoy their uses as well.
And you are really, really off by the way. Lol.
I never said I wanted them completely removed in my post. Honestly I don't give two -_-s what happens to them because I see what they do and how they are used.
I'm not sympathetic towards those that legally farmed them. I am not.
You know why?

Because things happen and things change. You need to learn to accept losses and move on.
The hat is account bound already. Idk what's next. Either way you'll have to deal with it.

[Mhikeey]

I am dealing with it and everyone else is. However, you saying that "GMs dont have to compensate anyone" is really just saying "screw you". GMs never said they won't compensate anyway and that they don't have to. So can YOU stop putting words in GMs mouths?

People are accepting whatever changes need to be done. A lot have made pretty good suggestions. But you saying stuff like "FYI, According User Terms of Agreement your account doesn't belong to you etc" just comes off as arrogant and not caring about the players who are potentially affected. GMs rely on their playerbase to keep the game alive and they need to take care of the said playerbase.

Ales were not in the game before and everything was fine, but now that everyone's had a taste of them they don't want them to go/need some compensation. I bought an unupgraded St Patty's Hat for 35M and got it to +7. Am I crying about it? Am I sitting here asking for something to replace the hat or it's effects? No.

Clearly it's you who lack insight. Who would be upset about a 35m hat? I actually have like 10 of those. However, ask the average guild leaders wherever server you are and find out how much they spent stocking up on ales.

If you're not greatly affected by this whole ale thing, why even comment on it? Just leave it. The people who are voicing out their concerns should be heard.

Edited by Mhikeey, 06 November 2011 - 01:33 AM.

[Okii]

I am dealing with it and everyone else is. However, you saying that "GMs dont have to compensate anyone" is really just saying "screw you". GMs never said they won't compensate anyway and that they don't have to. So can YOU stop putting words in GMs mouths?

People are accepting whatever changes need to be done. A lot have made pretty good suggestions. But you saying stuff like "FYI, According User Terms of Agreement your account doesn't belong to you etc" just comes off as arrogant and not caring about the players who are potentially affected. GMs rely on their playerbase to keep the game alive and they need to take care of the said playerbase.




Clearly it's you who lack insight. Who would be upset about a 35m hat? I actually have like 10 of those. However, ask the average guild leaders wherever server you are and find out how much they spent stocking up on ales.

If you're not greatly affected by this whole ale thing, why even comment on it? Just leave it. The people who are voicing out their concerns should be heard.

I am greatly affected by it, because it's inflating the economy and I play the game.
Everyone is affected by it.

Saying that GM's don't have to isn't putting words in their mouths.
If I were to say that "This GM said he/she will not compensate all these QQ'ers"
Now that is putting words in their mouths.

And it's a solid fact that they don't have to. So lol.

Edit: Sorry my mama taught me to be nice to dumb people so i cut off my last line just for you.

Edited by Okii, 06 November 2011 - 03:25 AM.

[Kadnya]

Ales were not in the game before and everything was fine,

Everything were fine when we all were like level 120 or less, when people started reaching 150 then everything was not right.

I am greatly affected by it, because it's inflating the economy and I play the game.
Everyone is affected by it.

Firstly, green ales don't inflate the economy, since they don't introduce new zeny to the market. Yus, everyone might be affected by it. But for some, being affected means losing nil, while for others being affected means losing fortunes. I don't feel that the miss-informed answer of a supposed players representative being kinda 'lol, deal with it' is nice at all =p.

For some, like you, the loss is really tiny. Obviously you don't feel a big loss. It's like, if lots of people lose their house due to an earthquake and you lost a tiny hotdog stand, and tell everyone around 'lol, stop crying, we are all affected'.

[Hrothmund]

I think everyone should go watch some woe's on other servers that dont depend on carrying 2k ales at a time, might learn something.

surprisingly for once an item problem doesnt come mostly from bots, but players. bard alts allowed even casual players to gain 100k+ ales during the event, and later with the patrick hats its BB'd MVP abusers who are raking in most of the ales, most likely outnumbering the amount produced by botters. Not saying they dont contribue a decent amount, but not the majority.

Edited by Resplendent, 06 November 2011 - 10:12 AM.

[Kadnya]

I think everyone should go watch some woe's on other servers that dont depend on carrying 2k ales at a time, might learn something.

Do their woes include people with +9 and +12 kvm weapons handed easily by their GMs too?
Part of our problem is that our attacks deal really high damages thanks to those weapons which are kinda the standard...

Edited by Kadnya, 06 November 2011 - 05:23 AM.

[Xellie]

Everything were fine when we all were like level 120 or less, when people started reaching 150 then everything was not right.



Firstly, green ales don't inflate the economy, since they don't introduce new zeny to the market. Yus, everyone might be affected by it. But for some, being affected means losing nil, while for others being affected means losing fortunes.

lol deal with it.

But in seriousness, I'm sorta pissed off at the fact they have to be changed... for what? A preventative measure to botting? Something that should have been a nice way for the normal player to channel money from the WoE guilds has to be nerfed because a few individuals just can't behave themselves.

I think the real problem here is to look at the underlying issue : Why do these people feel the need to bot ales? (yes, they're lazy cheaters, but there's probably more to this if it's looked at in depth)

I still think a simple weight increase would be fine. As the bots are caught and banned the ale supplies will slow down.

[Magefist]

Investigate Valkyrie/Smokies first, they are heavy Ale Spammers in WoE. Lol They'll get nailed.

[Andini]

after 18 pages, has heim even commented or posted again since the early pages?

[Magefist]

This Green ales check will help balance WoE. LOL

[Masterpiece]

what if better only heals hp? the drop rate its retarded low........ i still farming then and some people might too

At a 10% rate or the normal 50%?

Also I've thought of a few more suggestions that may or may not have been said already; but like I had said previously, "I don't feel like sifting through other peoples opinions as valuable as they may be."

They are all related to the draw backs of using Ales, and wouldn't be much of marketting or botting solution but more on the making woe "fair" side.

• Make it so that there's a chance of force sitting players for 5 seconds untill hit.
• Making it have a "all skills" cool down of 1-5 seconds
• Make it so that by chance you can't use any items at all for 5 seconds.
• Making it so that there is a chance a person regarless of stats/cards is frozen for 1-5 seconds and cannot be unfrozen till hit by an opponant.
• Make it so that there's a chance of a stun that lasts 1-5 seconds regardless of stats/cards and cant be cured with stat recovery.

[Magefist]

Give me the bann hammer, I will go to bot infested maps and get them. LoL

[Anshin]

Give me the bann hammer, I will go to bot infested maps and get them. LoL

Where exactly are these maps infested with bots in St Patrick's Hats?

[lainee]

after 18 pages, has heim even commented or posted again since the early pages?

yup. I would still like to see a definitive answer regarding the breakdown of ales first by server, and also by creation date of the ales (those created in the event vs those farmed with the hats after the event)

While I know on Ymir, there has been some farming of mvp mobs etc, I still think the vast majority of the Ales still in circulation on Ymir were harvested legitimately in the Saint Pats event. If Valk has an issue with Ales being botted then tackle that problem independently from Ymir where bot farms are not a great issue.

Would be nice to hear an answer from Heim, regarding the possible deletion and account binding of Ales (the plan seems to change like the wind) as right now it's become almost impossible to vend the remaining ales from your cart due to the uncertainty over what will happen to them.

[Daray]

Investigate Valkyrie/Smokies first, they are heavy Ale Spammers in WoE. Lol They'll get nailed.

We'll get nailed for using HE-Gums and bards in range of the snakes for optimal drops?
Darn, you sure caught us, using logic and our personal time/zeny to farm the most amount of ales possible.

I hope you don't find out about us using Ventrillo during WOE, we'll totally get nailed for co-ordinating attacks in WOE.

[Mhikeey]

Edit: Sorry my mama taught me to be nice to dumb people so i cut off my last line just for you.

You shame the green name.


And hopefully one of the GMs or CMs post sometime before maintenance. It would be useful to know if they're able to ban a few of the suspicious transfers they've seen (all those thieves at payon...).

Edited by Mhikeey, 06 November 2011 - 12:24 PM.

[HRdevil]

Give me the bann hammer, I will go to bot infested maps and get them. LoL

We will give you the ban hammer, go to the bot infested map. You'll certanly recieve the ban hammer.