489 replies to this topic

[Andini]

we all know they fooked up, but that's their plan

implement the change --> slowly adapt to people's responses --> change to reflect that --> make it seem like they listened to the public

on a side note, lol at people playing rgs that actually sac

Edited by Andini, 01 November 2011 - 09:54 PM.

[CeruleanGamer]

If you disable it on all maps except popular ones where people like to level on, it will not only allow the legit players to use them but also enable easy spotting of the bots.

Popular maps where there are always people include:
Ant Hell
Orc Dungeon
Nog2
Scarabs 1 and 2


If other players would like to add to this list please do so.

A detailed list of maps where spare cards/ale hunting is disabled would be nice Heim.

[tioluko]

Try just changing the weight to see what happens, making account bound is pretty bad for some ppl.

I and a lot of ppl use that to make some money, and like me, many of them arent botting... because of botting we will lose our favourite way to make money xD


Another alternatives:
* halving/decreasing the rate that the ale drops
* increasing level requeriment for the hat
* make the Ales drop effect be seasonable (increase a bit the drop rate in that case)
* burn all bot users pcs

[Dreimdal]

Again, because of botters we the good players will be injured >.>

Nah, ales have been in need of a nerf for a while now, separate from the botting issue. If we can get a reuse delay, at the very least, that should help some. It's too easy for people to be invincible or near-invincible.

Try just changing the weight to see what happens, making account bound is pretty bad for some ppl.

I and a lot of ppl use that to make some money, and like me, many of them arent botting... because of botting we will lose our favourite way to make money xD


Another alternatives:
* halving/decreasing the rate that the ale drops
* increasing level requeriment for the hat
* make the Ales drop effect be seasonable (increase a bit the drop rate in that case)
* burn all bot users pcs

None of those are needed. Just a delay, a weight increase, and an end to overfarming (mostly by stripping people of the ability to use maps they shouldn't be able to use).

Edited by Dreimdal, 01 November 2011 - 10:14 PM.

[Pres]

Try just changing the weight to see what happens, making account bound is pretty bad for some ppl.

I and a lot of ppl use that to make some money, and like me, many of them arent botting... because of botting we will lose our favourite way to make money xD


Another alternatives:
* halving/decreasing the rate that the ale drops
* increasing level requeriment for the hat
* make the Ales drop effect be seasonable (increase a bit the drop rate in that case)
* burn all bot users pcs

I like the fourth option. Increasing the weight doesn't really solve the bot problem at all. In addition, people with 1 STR can't carry as many ales and this hurts them as well. This is pretty unreasonable you know. What should happen is either banning the bots with the hat and reduce the hats available to be used by bots or even disable them in woe and keep the weight as they are.

Why not just make the St. Patrick's Hat stop dropping ales and maybe reinstate it during St. Patrick's Day?

[Jing]

Disagree with the weight limit. Also disagree with account bound. I farmed ales when they were out. I should be able to use it. I also bought some when they were low priced. I took a risk and it paid off. Try playing a warlock or a squishy character Heim and see how much a Stormblast damage does to you. Are you saying I just have to die because slims doesn't get me past it? Weight limit? A warlock or a non str based character cannot carry much. Does this mean I have to ditch playing warlock because I can only carry 50 ales max and can't live 1-2 mins on emp? GMs screwed up and made it like this. It wasn't anybody's fault. Stop putting the blame on botters. You opened the door for them with that hat. Leave my legit ales alone and don't change it thank you very much.

[s0rrow]

I like the fourth option. Increasing the weight doesn't really solve the bot problem at all. In addition, people with 1 STR can't carry as many ales and this hurts them as well. This is pretty unreasonable you know. What should happen is either banning the bots with the hat and reduce the hats available to be used by bots or even disable them in woe and keep the weight as they are.

Why not just make the St. Patrick's Hat stop dropping ales and maybe reinstate it during St. Patrick's Day?

the drop rate is really really low. i have completed several turn ins on my chars wearing the hat and gotten 5-10 ales per run. and frankly, the only way that you could get hundreds of ales a week is by a) abusing some game mechanic or being on 24/7 killing stuff. if you aren't botting to then you totally deserve to be immortal in woe.

[rickyricky]

erase all st patrick hat and sold ale in kafra shop

[Dreimdal]

Disagree with the weight limit. Also disagree with account bound. I farmed ales when they were out. I should be able to use it. I also bought some when they were low priced. I took a risk and it paid off. Try playing a warlock or a squishy character Heim and see how much a Stormblast damage does to you. Are you saying I just have to die because slims doesn't get me past it? Weight limit? A warlock or a non str based character cannot carry much. Does this mean I have to ditch playing warlock because I can only carry 50 ales max and can't live 1-2 mins on emp? GMs screwed up and made it like this. It wasn't anybody's fault. Stop putting the blame on botters. You opened the door for them with that hat. Leave my legit ales alone and don't change it thank you very much.

A weight increase is fine because everyone around you will also be affected, so they won't be able to spam as hard as you either. Also, it's long past time to wean people off ales. It seems people can't even remember how WoE worked before they were put into the game...

Heimdallr:

Bottomline: No level requirement, drop rate should stay the same, certain old warp memo's should be removed (when you guys figure out the best way how), reuse delay implemented, and the ale weight brought up to par with other high-powered restorative items (i.e. yggs).


Do those things and you shouldn't even need to account-bound anything. There will be complaining no matter what choice is made so just think long and carefully before listening to the masses. You've already announced that you're doing the last one in that list, with a weight increase, so that's a start.


This last part is just my own opinion (not saying it should be implemented), but I think:
Power of all potions should be tripled. Power of heal skill should be doubled. Will enourage people to play a priest or support chemist. Let's make potters and priests matter again.

Edited by Dreimdal, 01 November 2011 - 10:26 PM.

[TheUraharaShop]

Disagree with the weight limit. Also disagree with account bound. I farmed ales when they were out. I should be able to use it. I also bought some when they were low priced. I took a risk and it paid off.

Looks like you now took a risk that's not a good return on investment; aka you lost. So it's fine when it benefits you, however it becomes unfair only when changes put your at a lost; when you'd say instead "I took a risk and lost".

I do agree with alot of the changes that should be done instead of this approach. However small solutions like restricting the use of the items in WoE (if that's an issue) and Disabling item generation equips and cards on High Spawn maps, can easily put alot of the abuse to ease. Sometimes being heavy handed is necessary, but a lighter touch shouldn't be taken for granted either.

[Jing]

watch them implement an ale like pot that is sold in kafra shop.

[tioluko]

Remove the hats from kafra headgears selling list, I dont remember well seeing it here (not sure xD [noob]), but if it's possible to get, would be good removing it, or maybe just let it be purchasable seasonally.

Deleting bot accs with the hats also are good for reducing the number of hats arround : p

I still stick with the option of making the ales drops only on st patrick day season, and still dont like with the acc bound thing.
(for me...nothing would be acc bound, except event and eden stuff)

[Tofu]

People need to stop relying on ale spamming to survive.

I think a small increase in drop % would be helpful for us legit players. It means we could hunt them for our personal use, on the account on which we intend to use them on. As it is, the drop rate is too low to get any decent amount of ales on a single legit account. On the order of the spare card, or even half of it would be an immense help. Right now, it seems I get 10 blank cards for every 1 ale.

[Jing]

Looks like you now took a risk that's not a good return on investment; aka you lost. So it's fine when it benefits you, however it becomes unfair only when changes put your at a lost; when you'd say instead "I took a risk and lost".

I do agree with alot of the changes that should be done instead of this approach. However small solutions like restricting the use of the items in WoE (if that's an issue) and Disabling item generation equips and cards on High Spawn maps, can easily put alot of the abuse to ease. Sometimes being heavy handed is necessary, but a lighter touch shouldn't be taken for granted either.

It benefits a lot of people on WoE. Do you even play competitive WoE? Have you ever feel the need to use speedpots because it gets you to where you want to be faster? Same thing. If not then you don't understand how it's like. Have you ever supplied yourself and not ask for any supplies on WoE? I don't think so either. I guess people's opinion depends on how they use them. For some people that is on endgame which is WoE it makes it more fun if you get to live more. For some people that don't really use them, I guess they're all in favor of what Heim wants.

[Wizard]

A weight increase is fine because everyone around you will also be affected, so they won't be able to spam as hard as you either. Also, it's long past time to wean people off ales. It seems people can't even remember how WoE worked before they were put into the game...

Heimdallr:

Bottomline: No level requirement, drop rate should stay the same, certain old warp memo's should be removed (when you guys figure out the best way how), reuse delay implemented, ale weight brought up to par with other high-powered restorative items (i.e. yggs).


Do those things and you shouldn't even need to account-bound anything. There will be complaining no matter what choice is made so just think long and carefully before listening to the masses.

Nope... a weight increase will only benefit STR classes since they can carry more weight than your average class that is not STR dependent...

As of right now, there's no "Happy Ending" for this issue... not for Heim, Botters or regular players... the only possible solution is BALANCE PATCH that might solve the issue of having to pot Ales like crazy since the damage itself from most skill are being nerf...

A weight limit is not the solution since it will give "favoritism" to STR classes as I stated before.

Heim, right now is too late to try to fix this "problem"... the only "acceptable" solution for you regarding this issue is to speed up Balance Patch (a.k.a. nerf damage), apply the "cooldown" to restorative items that heals +50% HP (ygg seeds, ales, etc) and meanwhile try to delete possible botted ales (and restrict the effect for St. Patrick Hat until next event like other items) and perhaps the OP will be more condescendent about it...

PS: 7 days...

Edited by Wizard, 01 November 2011 - 10:27 PM.

[ghost1e]

Alternatives:

1. Make green ales only dropped in MVP maps, since most MVP's are timed to the second, it'll be pretty easy to spot the bot farmers plus it'll make it a bit harder for the bots to farm when MVP's haven't been killed.

2. Make green ales only vendable during St. Pats event.

3. Finally bind acquired green ales to Guilds(if that is a viable option), that way people who have obtained mass amounts of green ales legitimately for their guild runs won't be disadvantaged as much.

[Dreimdal]

Nope... a weight increase will only benefit STR classes since they can carry more weight than your average class that is not STR dependent...

Umm, there's no benefit to anyone... I think you mean to say, it will hurt the high STR characters less than lower STR characters. Which is true, however a reuse delay will affect everyone equally. Thus decreasing the pain of the weight limit somewhat.

Plus, strength of not, people need to stop being able to carry around so many OP restorative items. They unbalance the game too much. It's long past time to wean people off the idea of being able to ale their way through every WoE. Instead, normal healing items (i.e. non-percentage items) as well as the heal skill and high heal skill should all be increased in power.


People WoE'd before ales, and they will still WoE after ales.


It's time for "The Age of the Ales" to come to an end. That chapter in iRO history needs to come to a close.

Edited by Dreimdal, 01 November 2011 - 10:38 PM.

[Incendio]

The stench of stupidity and hypocrisy in this thread is absolutely astounding Lamb.

And he also won't have access to that old, inaccessible Eddga map that that screenshot was taken on so he can't farm in an area where he doesn't have to worry about getting caught.

He'd get banned sooner than later and the hat would be gone forever and he'd have no way to farm ever again.

Actually that image was taken on this map, 1 west and 1 south of Alberta.


Happy hunting!

[Kevin]

Nope... a weight increase will only benefit STR classes since they can carry more weight than your average class that is not STR dependent...

As of right now, there's no "Happy Ending" for this issue... not for Heim, Botters or regular players... the only possible solution is BALANCE PATCH that might solve the issue of having to pot Ales like crazy since the damage itself from most skill are being nerf...

A weight limit is not the solution since it will give "favoritism" to STR classes as I stated before.

Heim, right now is too late to try to fix this "problem"... the only "acceptable" solution for you regarding this issue is to speed up Balance Patch (a.k.a. nerf damage), apply the "cooldown" to restorative items that heals +50% HP (ygg seeds, ales, etc) and meanwhile try to delete possible botted ales (and restrict the effect for St. Patrick Hat until next event like other items) and perhaps the OP will be more condescendent about it...

PS: 7 days...

OMG lol i finally agree with haseo

yes the only solution to this problem is the balance patch, leave ales alone until then please

[TheUraharaShop]

It benefits a lot of people on WoE. Do you even play competitive WoE? Have you ever feel the need to use speedpots because it gets you to where you want to be faster? Same thing. If not then you don't understand how it's like. Have you ever supplied yourself and not ask for any supplies on WoE? I don't think so either. I guess people's opinion depends on how they use them. For some people that is on endgame which is WoE it makes it more fun if you get to live more. For some people that don't really use them, I guess they're all in favor of what Heim wants.

Yes, my entire iRO (4 to 5 year) Experience was WoE based.
Yes, I had purchased foods, potions, sp recovery items, the works (literally) for my Sniper.
Yes, I paid for my stuff expect for about 100 white potions, 10 EDPs and 250 slim white potions.

And if this is all about WoE, every reply would just be... just about WoE because it being account bound doesn't make them less effective. It would honestly have no effect at all. Dealing with the notion of it throwing the drop chances doesn't really push players who use them in WoE in to a corner; however players want to sell them rather then use them are pissed off because now their investments have flopped.

Edited by TheUraharaShop, 01 November 2011 - 10:36 PM.

[Dawei]

i don't understand why you are keeping them below the weight of ygg seeds or "just a bit better" isn't the idea stated that you want to make ales an event item verses a normal recovery item....so should seeds have priority over them? honestly the drop rate on the hate sucks like stated before. i have hunted items with spare cards all the different hunting items like box of thunder (back in the day), fresh fish, meat, ice cream, gift boxes, etc and i think ale is the hardest to get. deleting the hat will solve the problem of botting but honestly i still hunt ales, i don't WoE, i don't buy ales, and i don't use ales for HP rather SP. i honestly would be upset if you took an item that produced an useful item and replaced it with simply food or ores that i would end up being gratified for about 30mins and be done...what a waste of kafra points honestly.

those i understand a lot of people rely on these ales for WoE which i don't participate in. so here is my opinion and ideas.

i agree with the weight increase that will lower the demand. but why are you still trying to make the event item better then a comparable item in the game? if you want to keep them event i would say make them 30 weight the same as the seed the only plus to the seed is you avoid the chance of confusion. as far as the 1 str classes, my ranger carries but loads of stuff just get the gym passes if you you can't carry enough stuff also that's the idea so instead of carrying ales your carry slim whites.

i don't agree with deleting the hat. yes it would solve THAT botting problem but bots will bot what they can make a profit off. unfortunately i have played long enough to know....deleting items doesn't get ride of bots. it helps but doesn't solve the problem. also how do you determine compensation for deleting an item you paid for? everyone has a different opinion.

i have mixed feelings about the account binding of the items. i personally have multiple accounts i use and MVP characters and different accounts so this would be very annoying to have to hunt the items on each account to be able to use them. but what i would say IF they are account bound...maybe make ales accessible through eden badges or a trade in for MVP drops, this would promote mvping different monsters and make some of the items even more valuable. that is part of the reason i mvp is to collect ygg berries and seeds even better if i can get ales too.

[JeffereyParker]

Simple assumptions for people who disagree with ale going acc-bound:
1. bots
2. ppl who bought loads to make profits
3. 1+2
4. il/legit farmers (abuser/non-abuser) To illegits, if they r woers np, if were doing it for vending roflowned. To legits, srsly if u fail to find any other methods to farm zenny than ales, u fail in general. (support class with no aoe? they're not meant to gather zenny by mass killing if at all; what makes ppl think all classes should have equal zenny gathering ability)
5. ppl who bought loads with budget for guild/multiple acc purpose (10k+ but can't distribute and every1 except gl going woe aleless? omfg distribute NOW so every1 has 1k+ in their storage)

few more minorities but negligible, it should srsly go acc bound with minor nerf in its weight/cooltime.

[TheUraharaShop]

Simple assumptions for people who disagree with ale going acc-bound:
1. bots
2. ppl who bought loads to make profits
3. 1+2
4. il/legit farmers (abuser/non-abuser) To illegits, if they r woers np, if were doing it for vending roflowned. To legits, srsly if u fail to find any other methods to farm zenny than ales, u fail in general. (support class with no aoe? they're not meant to gather zenny by mass killing if at all; what makes ppl think all classes should have equal zenny gathering ability)
5. ppl who bought loads with budget for guild/multiple acc purpose (10k+ but can't distribute and every1 except gl going woe aleless? omfg distribute NOW so every1 has 1k+ in their storage)

few more minorities but negligible, it should srsly go acc bound with minor nerf in its weight/cooltime.

So true it hurts

[Wizard]

Umm, there's no benefit to anyone... I think you mean to say, it will hurt the high STR characters less than lower STR characters. Which is true, however a reuse delay will affect everyone equally. Thus decreasing the pain of the weight limit somewhat.

Plus, strength of not, people need to stop being able to carry around so many OP restorative items. They unbalance the game too much. It's long past time to wean people off the idea of being able to ale their way through every WoE. Instead, normal healing items (i.e. non-percentage items) as well as the heal skill and high heal skill should all be increased in power.


People WoE'd before ales, and they will still WoE after ales.


It's time for "The Age of the Ales" to come to an end. That chapter in iRO history needs to come to a close.

No... STR classes can carry more Ales, therefore they can "survive" a lil more than classes that run out of Ales because the weight difference... that's quite different... and yes, re-use delay will affect everyone... but there's no Balance Patch yet, therefore, no re-use delay will be implemented along with the weight increase...

Before Ales, skills didn't hurt that much and they didn't bypass woe/demihuman resistance like some skills do right now... those 2, pre and post renewal WoE are 2 different scenarios I'm afraid...

The stench of stupidity and hypocrisy in this thread is absolutely astounding Lamb.



Actually that image was taken on this map, 1 west and 1 south of Alberta.


Happy hunting!

LOL

OMG lol i finally agree with haseo

yes the only solution to this problem is the balance patch, leave ales alone until then please

and who are you? kiero... sako...

Yes, my entire iRO (4 to 5 year) Experience was WoE based.
Yes, I had purchased foods, potions, sp recovery items, the works (literally) for my Sniper.
Yes, I paid for my stuff expect for about 100 white potions, 10 EDPs and 250 slim white potions.

And if this is all about WoE, every reply would just be... just about WoE because it being account bound doesn't make them less effective. It would honestly have no effect at all. Dealing with the notion of it throwing the drop chances doesn't really push players who use them in WoE in to a corner; however players want to sell them rather then use them are pissed off because now their investments have flopped.

Valk WoE doesn't count btw...

[Kevin]

the guy that hates on your videos at irowiki forums lol