161 replies to this topic

[IsisThump]

Whats the average damage a Ninja can do with Throw Kunai? My Ninja is in her 70s but does like 3k throw kunais O:, is this low or average :c?

[CharAznable]

Whats the average damage a Ninja can do with Throw Kunai? My Ninja is in her 70s but does like 3k throw kunais O:, is this low or average :c?

well, thats pretty low to be honest. could you give my your information of your gear? mainly your weapon. maybe you need to use proper kunai.cause just with humma blazing shuriken, you can deal about 8k average.

[GuardianTK]

What's the reason for the Int in the Throw Kunai/Killing Stroke build? Wouldn't Dex be better for the cast time using Mirror Image or Ninja Aura? It'll also add 2 more points of Atk compared to Int. That and Luck would also work if you're looking to add to Atk. Not like it matters much, but I figured I'd ask what the basis for the Int rather than Dex or Luck for the final free stat points after putting in 99 base Str and Vit was for.


On another note: Does the Glorious Gladius really out-damage a Quad Archer Skel carded Main Gauche for Killing Stroke? I've heard the Slaughter Bonus hasn't been fixed on our servers yet, even after the Balance Patch. The 75% to Demi-human effect really only benefits weapons with high attack power and high upgrades in conjunction with the Slaughter bonus from the KVM weapon, which was disabled for iRO's Dagger-class KVM weapons.

Edited by GuardianTK, 24 April 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[CharAznable]

What's the reason for the Int in the Throw Kunai/Killing Stroke build? Wouldn't Dex be better for the cast time using Mirror Image or Ninja Aura? It'll also add 2 more points of Atk compared to Int. That and Luck would also work if you're looking to add to Atk. Not like it matters much, but I figured I'd ask what the basis for the Int rather than Dex or Luck for the final free stat points after putting in 99 base Str and Vit was for.


On another note: Does the Glorious Gladius really out-damage a Quad Archer Skel carded Main Gauche for Killing Stroke? I've heard the Slaughter Bonus hasn't been fixed on our servers yet, even after the Balance Patch. The 75% to Demi-human effect really only benefits weapons with high attack power and high upgrades in conjunction with the Slaughter bonus from the KVM weapon, which was disabled for iRO's Dagger-class KVM weapons.

Well, if i'd answer your first question, yes. Dex does makes your casting delay shorter. but i usually go with int since i get some sp. but i'm planning on fixing this guide and includes 2nd ninja guide and prefered stat to have for 2nd ninja so people can save their free reset once it kicks in. but yes, theoretically, Dex would benefit you with atk and some casting.

For your second question tho, i actually never owned KVM dagger in iRo. It works in kRo tho. only thing is, if your comparing ranged vs bloody, bloody deals more to less demi reduced character. if character your dealing with have tons of demi reduce, you will be better off with archer skeleton cards. but atk still matters too. so try to get +9 gradius and put three archer skel card, Actually, i will try to test it out after i finish my finals. but you shouldn't worry about this since ninja 2nd class is viable. and overthrow coin is best skill you could use as pvp skill. so KS will die out soon.

Edited by CharAznable, 25 April 2012 - 05:31 AM.

[GuardianTK]

I figured it would mostly be for the SP. Cicada and Ninja Aura do take up a lot of SP very quickly when spammed.

I'm well aware of the race modifier setup in Renewal. The thing is, Hydra would only benefit weapons with high attack. In Renewal, race modifier cards affect the weapon atk and not the overall damage. Archer Skeleton cards add to the overall damage of a Ranged Attack. Gladius is a Lv3 weapon and has less than 120 atk. I've had it tested on Sakray and it shows that any kind of weapon that a Ninja can equip that has Hydra in it are lackluster in damage for Killing Stroke compared to a Quad Archer Skel Main Gauche or Quad Archer Skel Huuma Giant Wheel Shuriken. The KVM weapon might be a different case, because it is a Lv4 weapon with much higher anti-demi bonuses.
Although you might be right about the Gladius and Triple Archer Skel. That might work better than a Quad Archer Skel Giant Wheel.

I've heard stories about Overthrow Coin, but I highly doubt it'll get far without a nerf if it does prove to be too good for PvP/WoE.

[CharAznable]

Although you might be right about the Gladius and Triple Archer Skel. That might work better than a Quad Archer Skel Giant Wheel.

I've heard stories about Overthrow Coin, but I highly doubt it'll get far without a nerf if it does prove to be too good for PvP/WoE.

well, for the card wise, I also think that Archer skeleton card is best choice. But, i will give out example anyway.

with 8500 hp and 99 str, and 9 dex. to Orc Warrior,

+10 MG 50320
+10 MG with quad hydra card = 54265
+10 MG with quad archer skel cards = 70448
+10 Gradius 56240
+10 Gradius with triple hydra cards = 62740
+10 Gradius with triple archer skel cards = 73112
+9 Grimtooth = 61080

if they imply future enchant system in iRo which they will, +9 Grimtooth with ranged 20% will be the best choice.

Glo weapon has formula to its own. I believe it was something like (Weapon upgrade level+Slaughter level-5)^2=Demi %
So, +9 KVM dagger would get (9+1-5)^2=25% to demi. So +9 KVM dagger would hve 100% demi dmg with 20% bypass the defense. with +9 upgraded atk bonus with high atk from actual dagger, it should be doing lots of dmg.

Edited by CharAznable, 25 April 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[CharAznable]

.
I've heard stories about Overthrow Coin, but I highly doubt it'll get far without a nerf if it does prove to be too good for PvP/WoE.

Actually, max hp for ninja is still under 15k without any sort of buff or pots. So, KS died out since they changed entire formula for 1st ninja. So, overthrow coin is best killing skill for 2nd class of ninja. but their main objective is more of annoying people i guess. since they can almost have insta cast within magic, it is totally viable to be super debuff class in woe with ultimate defensive skills.

Over Throw Coin is only good for PvP, Stuff that was great for PvE got nerf. especially with Explosive Kunai.

Edited by CharAznable, 25 April 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[GuardianTK]

Well I was thinking of using a Giant Wheel with Quad Archer Skel, but it does seem like the Glorious Gladius "could" potentially still out damage either set up. The question is when they're going to fix the Slaughter bonus for iRO's KVM daggers.

[CharAznable]

Well I was thinking of using a Giant Wheel with Quad Archer Skel, but it does seem like the Glorious Gladius "could" potentially still out damage either set up. The question is when they're going to fix the Slaughter bonus for iRO's KVM daggers.

I honestly have no idea when they'll do it. but since 2nd ninja is coming out soon, theres no need to go crazy about KS since we won't be using it. As for now tho, Giant Wheel with cards are way to go. i think i should add that up in my guide actually.

[asayuu]

Why nobody tells anything about Glorious [Or Valorous too] Huuma instead of Gladius?

It has level 2 Slaughter and a little chance to double KS damage when attacking. At least to the first class ninjas seems good.

Second class ninja will bring a great buff to KS ninjas, the ability to dual wield will solve this problem: "glorious gladius or quad kingbird MG = BOTH"

And about the Overthrow Coin... No.

If it works like the ninja one = "Halved damage against players. And ranged."

Means:

Skill natural reduction (on players) = damage ranges between 25k and 50k.
WOE skill reduction = ranges between 12.5k and 25k.
WOE range reduction = ranges between 6.25k and 12.5k.

If we include gear here too, there is another reduction, but I don't know if throwing coins ignore reducs or not. I doubt. Guess this skill would be more for MVPing low/mid tier MVPs, depending of cast time and delay.

Edited by asayuu, 25 April 2012 - 06:03 PM.

[CharAznable]

Why nobody tells anything about Glorious [Or Valorous too] Huuma instead of Gladius?

It has level 2 Slaughter and a little chance to double KS damage when attacking. At least to the first class ninjas seems good.

Second class ninja will bring a great buff to KS ninjas, the ability to dual wield will solve this problem: "glorious gladius or quad kingbird MG = BOTH"

And about the Overthrow Coin... No.

If it works like the ninja one = "Halved damage against players. And ranged."

Means:

Skill natural reduction (on players) = damage ranges between 25k and 50k.
WOE skill reduction = ranges between 12.5k and 25k.
WOE range reduction = ranges between 6.25k and 12.5k.

If we include gear here too, there is another reduction, but I don't know if throwing coins ignore reducs or not. I doubt. Guess this skill would be more for MVPing low/mid tier MVPs, depending of cast time and delay.

I can tell you that Overthrow coin(Muchanage) wont be dealing massive damage to boss since it deals half the damage to boss monster. and it bypasses the reduc. so it will always deal 50k~100k if u spend 100k zeny per throw.

With KS level 10, it deals about 70k to single target. For me, using Overthrow Coin is better deal, since you could also get reduc. once it gets reduc, it barely could kill sura.

I haven't actually used KVM huuma, but i know its atk is 55. KVM dagger is 120. thats 65 atk more than KVM huuma. and Huuma will lose your shield.

Just to make sure to answer your question regarding your concern about huuma shuriken vs dagger,
I will give you an example.

With 99 str/ 99 vit/ 9 dex and mob will be Orc Warrior.

+0 Glorious Gradius, you will deal 57915

+0 Glorious Huuma Shuriken, you will deal 51915.

and for the Slaughter modifier, i mentioned already that the equation is (Weapon upgrade level+Slaughter level-5)^2.
so, +6 KVM dagger would have (6+1-5)^2=4%
+6 KVM Huuma would have (6+2-5)^2=9%

But since KS mostly affected by your maximum hp and your ATK(Formula is ((ATK*40)+(80% HP))+[{(ATK*40)+(80% HP)*Number of Mirror Image}]/5) it is important to have high atk so that your initial dmg can be high enough to get maximum effects of Ranged buff or Race modifier.

and you saying that buffs of Kagerou or Oboro will bring KS dmg high, but in reality, it wont. it barely gets benefit of changing to 2nd job. so its max HP at 150 is about 15k max hp. within Full food buff, and Revit and stuff, it might be able to get to over 30k. to do that, you have to spend LOTS of zeny whenever u use ks and die and u have to rebuff to establish the same dmg. Sure Spell tags and all that will bring its dmg higher but to max out its dmg to bypass full reduc sura/RK/RG it is better to have 50k~100k random damage with Overthrow coin. They recently nerffed it so that it wont kill instantly or something but as far as i remember, it one shotted full reduc 150 sura all the time.

Edited by CharAznable, 28 April 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[EvilLoynis]

Excellent work on the guide.

Just an FYI - If you have VIP or can get the 3day VIP pass for 2 reset stones you can do Overlook Dungeon for levels 30-75+. I just tried this on a NON VIP account and level'd there easilly all the way to level 82. Only used ONE of the free Eden BM's right at the end to turn in last 3 levels and stayed in there till it ran out. Still have 1 left.

* TIP - It's best to only turn in level 2 when it's done as it's a quick shortcut down to the lower levels. lets you turn in rest while using a BM.

Here is a link to the equipment I used for the last 2 levels.

+7 Tripple Saharic (Drainliar) Gladius - Used this for first 3 floors plus Marc & Phens on level 4 to 1 hit.
+6 Huuma Blaze Shurriken - Used on Swordfish, Mermen, Strouf to 1 hit them ALL.
Witch Pumpkin Hat & Gozarian Mask - +30 Atk/MAtk
Pantie of Wild Cat (Porcello) - +25 Atk -5 Def
Breezy (Roween) Muffler - +10% damage to Water

And of course Wind Kunaii's.





Only left because I got bored. Will see If I can 1 hit Siroma right away even though I will have to get 1 more level

I think Throw Kunaii has got to be the strongest and cheapest physical attack skill in this game. Not to mention the quickest and safest to use.

Edited by EvilLoynis, 01 June 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

How is the KvM Gladius compared to the Quad Kingbird MG for Kill Stroke. Been looking for an answer for a while now.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 02 June 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[EvilLoynis]

Well I can certainly 1 hit Siroma already even at level 82.

I do around 15k damage using the Humma Blaze and 18-21k using the Trip Saharic Gladius wooo hoo.

To bad I need to wait one more level before they give me more than 700 exp lmao.

Will certainly be able to handle Magmarrings ounce I hit 95 to with a Trip Beholder weapon.

I usually also 1 hit KO Gazzi as well.

sheesh now level 84 but they only give me like 0.5% per kill

Edited by EvilLoynis, 05 June 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[Facekiller]

heres a very little know fact regarding throw shuriken, throw kunai, throw huuma, haze/shadow slash. and KS... weapons that inflict status effects like sleep stun poison bleeding ect. will transfer using these skills... if you use a main gauche [4] carded with 4 marina cards for instance you have a 20% chance to freeze enemies with those skills... i tested this on mushrooms...

[CharAznable]

I will be adding some tips(info) regarding KVM gladius vs Quad kingbird MG and info below.

heres a very little know fact regarding throw shuriken, throw kunai, throw huuma, haze/shadow slash. and KS... weapons that inflict status effects like sleep stun poison bleeding ect. will transfer using these skills... if you use a main gauche [4] carded with 4 marina cards for instance you have a 20% chance to freeze enemies with those skills... i tested this on mushrooms...

I forgot about these and now I can add those info. I've had long away from RO...

[CeruleanGamer]

Wow, that is helpful. I will definitely invest in that KvM dagger now. <3

[komorih]

Hi, what do you think of a ninja as my first class? , will I have problems with the zeny? (for kunai and stuff), thanks.

[CharAznable]

Hi, what do you think of a ninja as my first class? , will I have problems with the zeny? (for kunai and stuff), thanks.

I would say yes. you wont need zeny for gear because eden gears are above average for ninja. Only problem is you have to have certain amount of zeny to make kunai supplies for you to hunt. it will be more harsh for magic ninja. so, i would suggest you to make rogue, and maybe make 1m? or 2m then start to make kunai. once you stack certain amount of kunai, it will be easy way to get 99.

[komorih]

Ok, i'll start with another class to make some zeny and then buy kunais, i'll look for rogue , thanks.

Edit: indeed, the magic ninja would suit me well to make some zeny? I would also like to know why the magic ninja is a wrong build in renewall.

Sorry for my english xDDD

Edited by komorih, 13 July 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[Facekiller]

magic damage for ninja is beyond piss poor... kunai is by far the best skill for ninja... hits unless prevented by another skill like pneuma... can reach damages around 20k... fast to spam... where as magic might reach 8k damage with the strongest skill in the best conditions... plus the cast times make it really difficult...

[CharAznable]

Nothing is wrong build when you could enjoy it. Problem is tho, that sometimes you need way more time to prepare what you need, thenactually play the game. Magic ninja is the case. And due to its slow casting speed, and lower dmg output, magic ninja needs lot more control.

[CharAznable]

I'm currently updating this guide with ALL NEWish Ninja guide for Classic Server. It will take some time to relocate all of data but it will be done soon. Feel free to ask question about what i wrote just now, and additional question such as where to hunt(which i will include as soon as I have more time in my hand).

[EvilLoynis]

Ok, i'll start with another class to make some zeny and then buy kunais, i'll look for rogue , thanks.

Edit: indeed, the magic ninja would suit me well to make some zeny? I would also like to know why the magic ninja is a wrong build in renewall.

Sorry for my english xDDD

The main reason Magic Ninja is so bad in Renewal is because of how Magic Damage works. For Magic classes 50% or more of their Magic damage comes from their weapon now unlike in Classic (Pre-Renewal) where 90% of your Magic Damage came from your Int alone.

This is the same reason that Grand Cross Crusader builds SUCK now as well.

[Slizzling]

so when is the new ninja arrive?