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AB, Y U No have Mass Assumptio?!


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#26 lainee

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 05:33 PM

Usually (TI) someone casts Praefatio when I'm done putting Assumptio on everyone. I don't think people really prefer KE over Assumptio, it's just easier to push a button once compared to pushing it and clicking the mouse key 12 times.


It depends. If you are in a large party with say 2 or 3 AB total, and you sort of sync your Praefatios between the ABs you can keep KE up most of the time - while at the same time casting Assumptio on specific characters that need or want it. Thus in responce to Okii's OP post, there is no real need for a mass/group Assumptio spell.

Edited by lainee, 29 November 2011 - 05:33 PM.

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#27 pikachiquita5

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:23 PM

I asked about this in the Acolyte section, but seeing as it is somewhat relevant to the matter at hand....

Is safety wall even worth getting anymore as a priest? Since apparently its blockage is based on its "HP" rather than a number of hits in the old days? I ask, since I'm wondering if my future ME AB might as well swap out SW with maxing KE. Yes, there's Prafaetio, but in smaller parties, using max KE could be nice for a mobber. I mention this, as I would probably like to help by supporting parties rather than just soloing.

Back to being completely on-point:
I do agree that KE is probably best used to go out and mob, and Assumptio is good to cast once someone is done mobbing and is bringing it back, cause it doesn't take long for KE to come crashing down. However, I feel Assumptio usage can also vary depending on monster walk speed. Just using Assumptio is fine in places where the monsters are a bit slower...this turn in round, stuff in Rachel is very easy to mob even by just walking. Another example is Scaraba Hall 2 where you can just use Ass, I don't have that much of a problem walking those around. Whereas in the Kamidal Tunnel, those small little buggers move too fast so KE is probably a better option for mobbing. KE would probably also be good for Juperos, since they are fast and seem to have some range when attacking (the Venatus); or stuff that is gosh-awful fast like Wanderers in GH.

Edited by pikachiquita5, 29 November 2011 - 07:26 PM.

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#28 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:35 PM

Safety Walling duty should be a mage class's duty. ABs should be busy supporting with buffs/heals and subduing enemies with Lex skills.
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#29 Agahim

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:37 PM

can i have mass g-fist on my sura, please?
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#30 Okii

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:37 PM

can i have mass g-fist on my sura, please?


Go seek attention on another thread, hun <3
This is about AB's, not suras.
Mass Gfist? lol.
Sooo funny.

And what I'm saying is basically not serious but more of a joke, which you are terrible at making btw.
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#31 Krispin

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:41 PM

Because the party assumptio spell is reserved for suras instead.
You know, to keep things balanced.

But really though, assumptio got hit hard with the nerf bat in renewal.
It DID need to be nerfed as the end game was being balanced around assumptio's straight 50% reduction to physical, which in turn meant everything dealt so much that you actually needed it.
Problem with the nerf is that now it only gives a meager reduction for most classes because its a multiplier based on a defense formula that works on a curve.

For mobbing (that is, lots of enemies hitting you at once, not them following you while you gather more) assumptio is still better than KE, but otherwise KE is so much better its staggering.

Edited by Krispin, 29 November 2011 - 08:45 PM.

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#32 Heimdallr

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:45 PM

I know it seems weird that the mass buffs that normally HP provide weren't all available for ABs.

But it makes sense when you recall that any building of new 3rd class skills can only be done off of 2nd class skills not Trans skills. Else someone who skips Trans and goes straight to 3rd would have a gap in their 3rd class skills.
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#33 Xellie

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:52 PM

I know it seems weird that the mass buffs that normally HP provide weren't all available for ABs.

But it makes sense when you recall that any building of new 3rd class skills can only be done off of 2nd class skills not Trans skills. Else someone who skips Trans and goes straight to 3rd would have a gap in their 3rd class skills.


Given the changes in assumptio to be a defence increase, it could have easilly been based on an angelus pre-req. Or a not quite assumptio, but buffed version of angelus that would make assumptio MUCH more effecctive in renewal.
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#34 Krispin

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:05 PM

I'm going to have to disagree there, heim.
This isn't even something you have to look up to know, trans skills are on another level entirely from base job skills, and many of them from many classes still have use in third job.
Not to mention the hp/sp boost.

Skipping trans and going straight to third job will handicap most classes so horribly that its by default a gimmick build at best.
Or a deleted character out of regret and frustration at worst...

Point is, nobody that's seriously building up their character will skip trans, so third job skills having trans skill requirements being unfair to non trans characters is a moot point.
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#35 Lucentos

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:06 PM

Assumptio`s problem with inability to masscast it can be solved by increasing Assumptio`s duration to make it less freqent required to be spammed.
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#36 Hinkypunk

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 01:57 AM

As far as party dynamics are concerned, having both a mass assumptio and praefatio (when more than one supporting AB in party) is just asking for a heap of trouble.

In most cases, praefatio augmented with individual casts of assumptio and KE is optimum.

During the Bio3 TI, my party generally had two AB (myself included) and we completed it in just under six hours with zero wipes. And while you want to keep assumptio on the Sura, spamming a quick KE during the transition between MS expiring and recasting is absolutely essential.

Of all the things the kRO devs got 'wrong' with the AB skil tree, praefatio isn't one of those things. It just comes down to skill and knowing what to use in a given situation. When it comes to ABs, many never learned to play priest...or even high priest. Instead they just spam coluseo...and never think to spam pneuma to prevent ranged attacks. lol.
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#37 WedgeAntilles

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:19 AM

itt people who don't know when to use assu and KE correctly.

90% of the time, assu is better. (mind you I play with people who have decent defence) - the only reason for KE is to block knockback type skills.

A vit char, or a wiz class ... KE/pref will not last 10 seconds on them. It's better to minimize damage than to avoid it for a few seconds then take max.

KE is used on perfect dodge and agi mobbers. Once they are tanking, you assumpt them. No other classes need KE, the benefits of assu outweigh them.

People who level purely off TIs or haven't tested disagree - but anyone who has partied with my AB will know that I know what I'm talking about, and I'm yet to not convince someone just through the action of using assumpto and showing the results.


Yay one person that actually knows wtf they are talking about. I hate idiot scrub AB's in parties that randomly cast Prefaetion when I'm trying to keep tanks and casters Assumptioed to reduce the DPS they take and give them a better chance at being healed. Assumptio may not be as amazing as pre-renewal, but it's still a 1/3ish damage reduction and infinitely more useful than KE. The only way I could see Prefaetion being useful is if you had multiple AB's and kept spamming it simply to prevent any damage. If a few characters need KE, it's be better to do that individually as well, instead of cancelling all the Assumptio with Prefaetion.

TBH with the nerfs to Assumptio in renewal and the AoE KE, they should just let them stack, and make things way simpler...

Edited by WedgeAntilles, 30 November 2011 - 02:24 AM.

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#38 jackyan26

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:32 AM

I'm going to have to disagree there, heim.
This isn't even something you have to look up to know, trans skills are on another level entirely from base job skills, and many of them from many classes still have use in third job.
Not to mention the hp/sp boost.

Skipping trans and going straight to third job will handicap most classes so horribly that its by default a gimmick build at best.
Or a deleted character out of regret and frustration at worst...

Point is, nobody that's seriously building up their character will skip trans, so third job skills having trans skill requirements being unfair to non trans characters is a moot point.

Again, baby classes!!
And how you "optimize" your characters doesn't change the fact that the option exists to skip trans, and thus 3rd job skills cannot have trans requirements.
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#39 lainee

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:37 AM

During the Bio3 TI, my party generally had two AB (myself included) and we completed it in just under six hours with zero wipes. And while you want to keep assumptio on the Sura, spamming a quick KE during the transition between MS expiring and recasting is absolutely essential.


It was also interesting for those couple of hours where we added other AB's who were not used to how we were doing it and the staggered timings of the Praefation, and the recasting of Assumptio on those who needed it. The main thing is when doing it that way you can't have random casting of Prefaetion or Assumptio as it also messes things up.

Interesting 'vote down' by MrTyranitar on Hinkypunks post. You seem to do that an awful lot without actually ever giving a reason in threads. How about growing a pair and chiming in on the debate MrTyranitar? BTW you missed my post up the top, it's waiting for you to de-rep it as per normal that you do on my posts.

:bang:

Edited by lainee, 30 November 2011 - 02:37 AM.

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#40 Kiryu

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:52 AM

if you want mass assump might as well get all those party scrolls on market... anyway I don't feel like is a must have skill, this came from a priest who went from worse of the server to one who hasn't use a phen clip or similar in two years and yet keep alive parties by herself on biolabs and thors alone only to have SC, wanderers or a genetic help me with screaming at party leaders who need to know when a tree is up they don't move or fly away unless is a emergency.

Assumption is now an option in some builds not a must. And a lot of good Ab's 150 I know, they rarely cast assumpt, hell one of my friends is planning to reset, he hasn't use assumpt as a FS in 5 months now. FS AB can have a least four out of six different ways to play properly. How I know? I know ABs who excel and ABs who are just a shadow of what we can do.

About trans skill... Well there is people who actually jumped sadly and baby classes can actually shake things and they aren't only cute, they are deadly when done right.

Edited by Kiryu, 30 November 2011 - 02:55 AM.

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#41 Okii

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:27 AM

I'm fairly certain that what you're stating is nothing but a preference / opinion.
Assumptio is highly useful. I ran ET last night with Xellie and she kept everyone Assumptio'd and it was a breeze. We took way less magic and physical damage that normal (especially with Angelus 10 up).

KE is useful in my eyes only for gathering a mob. This way, you have a bit more time to bring the monsters together y'know? Then I assumptio and ME the mob or wait for the party to kill it. Of course, if it's a HUGE mob, neither Kyrie or Assumptio will save you xD

Also it's not that bad to gwing with your party and cast Prefaetio right away to block off some of the attacks on squishy characters from the get-go, then assumptio them while walking around. I dunno, I get called a poor priest for using Prefaetio when around some very skilled players. I've learned to play from them and wouldn't have it any other way, really.
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#42 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:47 AM

Obviously they want you to spam lucky boxes with real money and get Group Assumptio scrolls if you want your mass Assumptio.
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#43 Okii

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:02 AM

Obviously they want you to spam lucky boxes with real money and get Group Assumptio scrolls if you want your mass Assumptio.


Haha... aww.
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#44 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:42 AM

Here look,
The power of assumptio.

You just CANNOT do this with KE.

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#45 lainee

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:50 AM

Here look,
The power of assumptio.

You just CANNOT do this with KE.


Yes but it's situational. Of course if you are on your own and holding/tanking a mob you assumptio your self.
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#46 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:53 AM

Yes but it's situational. Of course if you are on your own and holding/tanking a mob you assumptio your self.


Or anyone who is mobbed, tbh.

Or a wiz class who will have KE last only seconds.

KE is basically for running through areas fast and taking little hits so you can keep moving, or for blocking knockback.

there's literally zero other legitimate use of the skill.

(sans turn in laziness)

As for SWing being a mage classes job, nothx. Can they get on with killing please?!
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#47 lainee

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:56 AM

I'm fairly certain that what you're stating is nothing but a preference / opinion.


And I'm fairly certain that what you're stating is nothing but a preference / opinion also.

Assumptio is highly useful.


Indeed it is.

KE is useful in my eyes only for gathering a mob.


There are lots of other uses for KE. After you have played AB for a little while longer, I'm sure they will become evident to you.

The idea is to use one of the other as the situation warrants. Horses for courses.
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#48 Okii

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:58 AM

I prefer Assumptio because I can tell when someone needs it again.
It doesn't end by being hit x amount of times. It also is very, very good with Angelus.

See, KE is like.. just KE. There's no awesome combo for it and even if I get hit for 1 damage, that counts as a hit on KE.
I dunno, but I want party buff assumptio scrolls really badly now. Maybe we can get them sometime soon :bang:

Have to say I don't really understand the posts about third class and rebirth and stuff. (missing a chunk of skills or something)
But I say if you don't rebirth, you really should be hindered, if that's what you guys are trying to say. It's supposed to be better when you rebirth so I feel no sympathy for those who choose not to; I mean that's their call.

I could be rambling about this incorrectly, but again, I don't really understand it so... lol


And I'm fairly certain that what you're stating is nothing but a preference / opinion also.



Indeed it is.



There are lots of other uses for KE. After you have played AB for a little while longer, I'm sure they will become evident to you.

The idea is to use one of the other as the situation warrants. Horses for courses.



I know it's a preference but at least I word it as one. You make it sounds like a fact, which... it isn't.Anyways, don't get butthurt over the opinions on this thread. Not everyone is going to agree and it's not even a topic about which is better. It's a topic about AB Y U NO HAVE MASS ASSUMPTIO?just wondering why it was skipped out on and the answers I got are apparently correct due to the number of people saying the same thing, but I am too daft to understand the meaning of it. I've never skipped rebirth so I wouldn't know.

Edited by Okii, 30 November 2011 - 12:00 PM.

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#49 lainee

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:59 AM

Or a wiz class who will have KE last only seconds.


And if the wiz in question is fast casting with out the use of a phen etc, a quick spam of KE can buy a couple of seconds for them to get their cast off, then resume normal service and recast Assumptio.
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#50 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 12:01 PM

And if the wiz in question is fast casting with out the use of a phen etc, a quick spam of KE can buy a couple of seconds for them to get their cast off, then resume normal service and recast Assumptio.


yes, I was going to bring up the "noob without a phen" scenario.

I would then proceed to teach them how to phen swap. =p
There's no reason for them to do that no phen sillieness really.

edit: unless they're perma no phening (WHYYY?!) - by the time you noticed their cast was being interrupted and they're on attempt #2, they may as well have just used a phen anyway /sigh.

Edited by Xellie, 30 November 2011 - 12:03 PM.

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