167 replies to this topic

[sayoko]

Sorry Oda, but Gravity/iRO has badly screwed up this time with the roll out of this patch. Even more so with the advance warning you mention, there is ZERO reason for so much stuff to have slipped though. You should have launched with the iRO customizations put back in, or at the very least made some kind of statement regarding there re-implementation before this went live. But to be honest, I just think iRO forgot to request this from the kRO devs in the rush to get this rolled out. Had we had a proper test on Sakray before going live on the mains none of this would have happened. To make things worse, issues like not being able to use skills or items on a map for 60 seconds is a complete joke, how on earth you guys let this get though is beyond me? Again, this was plainly evident in the rushed Sakray test, yet you went live on the mains knowing crap like this was messed up in the patch and that pretty shoddy service.

While I do think its way too early for people to start quitting over the balance patch, I think that iRO needs to take some responsibility regarding the -_-ty way this was rolled out. What do you think the reaction would have been to this if the servers were still premium subscription based? Also Im not sure why Im paying to be VIP to do 'your testing' for you?

The main thing here though is the complete lack of communication regarding all of this from your self or Heim in any of the bug fixing threads in the Balance Patch section - when right now it would be totally in your best interests to put the communities mind at ease that these bugs 'have' been noted and are being 'fixed'. If people dot see this, they are going to assume the game is broken, and walk away.

dude......... just take a look to our QQ against SNAP+CURSED CIRCLE.................. how much time we have doing that? it was fixed? any gm care? i guess no..............

[ChrisWintermoon]

I would like to add into this discussion that me and some of my guildies (probably about 7-9 people) had decided to stop paying for VIP until all this mess will get sorted out and corrected.

When it comes to me -and I am sure there are other thinking this way too- i can tell you that iRO is loosing a lot of money right now.

1. Losing money due to the Reset Timer. Srsly, what where you thinking? There wasn event and announcement or anything at all. Was it some naughty idea the dev team had during Mc Donald Diner?

2. Having a rushed test at Sakray, getting feedback and bugreport, CM BEGGING for doing Sakray Testing and Bugreporting and finally to go live with the patch and BUGFIXING NOTHING AT ALL!! Srsly, why you guys even doing Sakray testing? Its not like you are listening to us anyways.

3. So many (MANY) mistakes over the past weeks such as forgetting to announce the +9 Hat Winner and coming up with the excuse of having the list LOST. OMG when I read that I literally wanted to burn down the HQ for failing HARD at Marketing. I told this to my Marketing Prof at University and the only thing he said was that heads need to roll for this. Big Heads.

4. It might not be the big stuff that are bringing people down or getting them upset. But there are soooo many small things coming all together and making a hell mess out of this game. I do not know how far you can go when it comes to change Scripting and Database stuff but there are several thing needed to be changed. Even I could change the Skill Database (let it be skill.c/ skill.h) to working properly again within 5 mins - I am not a professional....

5. Gm's fu**ing the economy and veteran players that were hard working for their stuff. Such as +7 Safe Certs AND that nasty little guy upgrading stuff to +9. I know at least 4 Guys that quit complete due to this. They wont come back since they have (ragequit or not) dropped/ donated all their stuff.

6. The Community themself. Calling everybody an noob or what ever else if he/ she is QQing about changes or making their beloved class (performer f.e.) USELESS is not a smart move, really not. If everyone of those trolls and so called ,,noobs" quit and only the elite people would stay, you could close the server the very next maintenance.

7. Look at the population of all server. If the pop was so high due to bots there is something going wrong. srsly. having more bots than LEGAL players is just...

8. There might come a day where every one of us has to decide if he loves Ragnarok enough to still be playing on this server or might leave to ,,another Server". We all know they are illegal. But from an manager point of, I think the GM Team has to ask themself whether or not they destroyed their own game with their latest actions and kindly pushed them into the arms of ,,other servers".

Please excuse my broken english, gave my best. Hope you get my point.

[Heimdallr]

Umm we had a lot of other people saying they were quitting UNTIL the balance patch happens..

If you want things to get better the I quit mentality solves nothing unless you post specific things why, such as this skill is a problem. We have the capacity to get things changed, but with no feedback we are not able to take your view into account.

And user numbers have been very low since November, well before the skill balance update was in public testing, also we have banned a TON of bots in the past 21 days and have taken steps to disallow them from as easily creating more.

[Weeeelium]

Umm we had a lot of other people saying they were quitting UNTIL the balance patch happens..

If you want things to get better the I quit mentality solves nothing unless you post specific things why, such as this skill is a problem. We have the capacity to get things changed, but with no feedback we are not able to take your view into account.

And user numbers have been very low since November, well before the skill balance update was in public testing, also we have banned a TON of bots in the past 21 days and have taken steps to disallow them from as easily creating more.

A simple thought. Why is the opness being shifted instead of balance patch feeling like a balance?

[StStephen]

I don't really know how this patch as effected people in WoE, I don't care personally, but I do care for the health of the game, so hopefully its not too bad.

For PVM/MVP it is devastating. So many jobs have had their effectiveness moderately or serverely reduced.

I'm not going to threaten to quit or anything like that, I'm sure I won't. I can't speak too much on how the broader community is changing their playing habits due to the patch, other than to note the numbers of people logged on the server are plunging. But I know my levelling team and I, who routinely spend pretty hard on kafra supplies, have suspended our activities. We are at a loss on how to continue doing anything resembling what we've been doing recently. We've all been playing anywhere from 6 to 9 years, we're not new to needing to adapt to change in the game. But this update is draconian and disheartening.

Other people have done an excellent job at outlining the details of the carnage. So many jobs that didn't need to be nerfed at all have been. PVM/MVP balence was not badly broken. Buffs of a few unwanted classes would have helped the problem of certain jobs not being wanted for parties.

I really enjoy this game, I've played it since beta test with only two brief breaks (of 3 weeks or less). This is probably the most discouraged I've felt since the rollbacks we had soon after beta test. I hope something will be done very soon to fix some of the problems this patch has created.

[ChrisWintermoon]

Umm we had a lot of other people saying they were quitting UNTIL the balance patch happens..

If you want things to get better the I quit mentality solves nothing unless you post specific things why, such as this skill is a problem. We have the capacity to get things changed, but with no feedback we are not able to take your view into account.

And user numbers have been very low since November, well before the skill balance update was in public testing, also we have banned a TON of bots in the past 21 days and have taken steps to disallow them from as easily creating more.

I +1 you for the quiting mentality. Its not working and its not helping anyone.
+ I think that a lot of people are basically just threatening to quit if this or that wont help or just to have it as an excuse to flame you guys.

When it comes to your wish of having reasons why people are quiting/ raging I would like to refer you to the MANY Topics that have been created and discussed lately. If you analyze them you find a lot of Skills that are broken in being to OP or to weak or completly lost their meaning. Same goes for jobclasses such as Sura (wich are still OP) and Wanderer (wich are basically killed hard).

If I may make a wish (its x-mas!!):

Please take more time to test things properly at Sakray. You might even want to hand out free give aways as an insentive for people to test.
Yeah I know thats much to ask for, but I guess some free Items/ Points would not hurt you. We all know people are way to greedy those days.

When you take your time to test stuff (~2 Weeks maybe?) please analyze the Feedback Topics and make a list of things that are demanded.
I am more than sure that you know who of those people posting are just trolling/ talking nonesense or really trying to help you make this game a better place to be.

To point out why this is ímportant I would like to add (again) that a lot of bugs wich were reported already at sakray testing topics got implemented without any Bugfixing or any adjustments at all. I think its understandable that people might get upset about this, isnt it?

------

Edit:I think that having 14.1 implemented as well as the LATEST Balance Patch from kRO at the same maintenance would have helped A LOT. Fact is that 14.1 is bringing in a lot of Cards and Equipment wich will help us all to get stronger and make some nerfs ,,okay".

Edited by ChrisWintermoon, 16 December 2011 - 11:18 AM.

[lainee]

If you want things to get better the I quit mentality solves nothing unless you post specific things why, such as this skill is a problem. We have the capacity to get things changed, but with no feedback we are not able to take your view into account.

14.1 and Skill Balance update feedback thread
67 Topics
1534 Replies

... But almost completely devoid of GM responses to any of the feedback given so far - and most importantly hardly any responses in relations to the bugs/errors caused by the patch. ie "noted, we will look into it"

Edited by lainee, 16 December 2011 - 11:21 AM.

[Tigra]

Umm we had a lot of other people saying they were quitting UNTIL the balance patch happens..

Actually, I never heard anyone say that. People were finally getting used to playing their classes/dealing with them and then this patch came and pretty much hit them over the head with a brick.

[TheKraven]

I doubt it will die but this game isn`t balanced...I don`t get how the ones in charge of these patches see it as a ``balance`` patch because it`s far from it. When the game is balanced then you`ll see the RO Population increase and Gravity themselves will get more money as a result...its a win-win situation but as a result of these patches they`re more like a lose-lose situation...nobody`s winning here.

Rangers: They`re supposed to be a BOW class yet there is not 1 Bow Ranger in WOE or PVP than can stand up to decent Suras, Gx`s, RK`s etc...

Buff our Bows please...Honestly we are meant to be a BOW class and we can`t even use them in WOE

Edited by TheKraven, 16 December 2011 - 11:25 AM.

[Ralis]

Everyone had this same mentality right after Renewal, remember? "ZOMG THIS RUINED THE GAME I'M QUITTING"

Several months later, they adapted to the change.

Now this has come along, and people are going "ZOMG THIS RUINED THE GAME I'M QUITTING"

And so I believe that this, too, will come to pass.

(I mean, I don't like a lot of the changes either, but just like how we adapted and figured things out after Renewal, I'm sure with a few weeks we'll figure out what to do now. I believe that each class still has a use, people have just expected to use one skill for their entire career on that character and now that it's changed, they don't know what else to do.)

Edited by Ralis, 16 December 2011 - 11:28 AM.
typo

[Mischelle]

• People whined that they were quitting when [add events from the past]
• People whined that they were quitting when renewal got implemented.
• People whined that they were quitting when [add events in between]
• People whined that they were quitting when Balance patch got in.

And after they whined, they also actually quit each time.

Really, the only reason server population appears as if it is stable is because almost everyone knows that the core component of this game is to open a program to play it for you.

There are people who are glad the "whiners" are quitting. Truth be told, the only people with no complaints are players whose only care is about weeaboo headgear and sprites.

Each patch brings so many nerfs and buffs to this game that it is impossible to play with any consistency. In the 3 months it takes to level to 150 (which is where you can start playing the game) the mechanics change. Up becomes down, left is right, inside is out.

In short, anyone who actually cares about this game doesn't play it anymore.

Edited by Mischelle, 16 December 2011 - 11:29 AM.

[ChrisWintermoon]

Everyone had this same mentality right after Renewal, remember? "ZOMG THIS RUINED THE GAME I'M QUITTING"

Several months later, they adapted to the change.

Now this has come along, and people are going "ZOMG THIS RUINED THE GAME I'M QUITTING"

And so I believe that this, too, will come to pass.

(I mean, I don't like a lot of the changes either, but just like how we adapted and figured things out after Renewal, I'm sure with a few weeks we'll figure out what to do now. I believe that each class still has a use, people have just expected to use one skill for their entire career on that character and now that it's changed, they don't know what else to do.)

You can repeat this only for a couple of times.
There comes a time where this will end in friends and guilds quiting and you will quit too wich will cause others to quit to

[Oda]

14.1 and Skill Balance update feedback thread
67 Topics
1534 Replies

... But almost completely devoid of GM responses to any of the feedback given so far - and most importantly hardly any responses in relations to the bugs/errors caused by the patch. ie "noted, we will look into it"

Keep an eye on this thread then. http://forums.warppo...-patch-drydock/

We've been reading the threads, using them to test and collecting information-if you'd like I can put a blanket "yes we are looking at this" response to every post on the 14.1 testing subforum because that's what we're doing.

[Ralis]

I can agree that the changes every few months are rather annoying. My biggest complaint about this patch is that it's only stirring up the pot. There were barely any people complaining about their class being underpowered or Suras being overpowered a few weeks ago, and now it's alllll back. Joyous joy.

[Heimdallr]

Feedback given before it is even on Sakray is IGNORED because it is not feedback based on fact, it is based on speculation.

And the feedback on specifics is very poor in general, complaints of general I feel underpowered or I want this skill to be stronger isn't nearly as helpful as:


Arrow Storm has a long cast time, a small AOE, and poor damage, increasing damage so that it is double that of Double Strafe applied to an area could be a better solution.


I agree that there are very specific feedbacsk that some have given which fits the criteria for us to move on with requesting the changes. This was a problem last year, as 1 person trying to collect data that is not well presented is a monumental task especially when some players don't post factual information. There have in fact been many posts with players posting downright lies about what a skill effect currently is, and then others have to correct them. That sort of "noise" is not only aggitating to us but it aslo stirs up more problems in the community.

I am going to be making 3 threads 1 for cast time issues, 1 for damage issues, 1 for odd effect issues (like can't do x after casting)

We already know we are going to be messing with cast times, but to what degree isn't decided yet, and I know some skills have damage issues like it is scaled back too much for its cost or cast time.



The threads will be pinned in the 14.1 feedback section.

[ChrisWintermoon]

Keep an eye on this thread then. http://forums.warppo...-patch-drydock/

We've been reading the threads, using them to test and collecting information-if you'd like I can put a blanket "yes we are looking at this" response to every post on the 14.1 testing subforum because that's what we're doing.

Oda, I am sure you guys must be raging hard lately about the players and might now wish the best things to us xD I can really understand that.
Sometimes its like looking over an Kindergarten...

But still, I have to repeat what I said.

- Skill Balance comes to Sakray
- People are testing @ sakray
- People are giving Feedback, wishes, demands, trolling and reporting Bugs
- GM's claiming to read it (wich I believe they do - somehow) and posting stuff like ,,we will look at it".
- Skill Balance goes live @ Main
- People realizes that all the reported bugs are STILL there, no Bugfixing has been made.

I DEMAND TROLLFACE MASK INGAME!! Please put it ingame as an costume - I will buy it, I promise!

[Oda]

The focus for getting the skill updates on the main servers was first and foremost knocking out showstopping bugs, conflicts with VIP or other systems and making sure that the servers weren't sideways and on fire on Wednesday morning. With the size of our team we have to work with what we've got.

I'll be updating the drydock thread and putting a "Oda: we're testing this/Oda: can you get screenshots/Oda: this will be fixed next maintenance" on bug report posts.

[Gigahertz2011]

/aura

same command as it's always been for the last 8 or 9 years.

I just did this last week. Brilllliant.

I think most people are here rather than in the game, complaining.

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 16 December 2011 - 11:43 AM.

[KingOfBabylon]

I hop on from time to time

hur hur holy light. Pretty darn useless. Yes, I went there

Heal is crap. High heal's good, but has a CD and can be canceled if you're not wearing a phen and/or don't have a decent amount of casting speed

Do daggers still suck arse for the rogue class tree?

Edited by KingOfBabylon, 16 December 2011 - 12:12 PM.

[Razgriz]

I'm just curious about 2 things:

-What was the reason of the rushed "balance" patch?
-Why did you guys took out sakray in the first place?

GMs encouraged players to go and test skills/changes on sakray, however, sakray came up bugged and with plenty problems i.e GX unable to equip katars, Skills erroring, incorrect formulas and so on.
So we had to get those fixed, which at some point, slowed down the testing process, and even with that, GMs didnt care and rushed to put the patch on mains. Even with a pretty extended maint the bugs that were reported in the threads were still there ALONG with more problems, like the customized changes iRO had went missing, the cooldowns. I see people threatening to quit because they are sick of the half assed process and rushed content that leads to a ton of problems that have to be patched or just ignored, it happend on the past, pre-renewal with the warp memos getting erased, or the exp hats not working as intended, however when we had sakray, we could test it with no problems on a stable server and tweak things from there, not having to worry about major bugs getting on the mains. I still dont get why GMs chosed to do these two things, it would have saved them a lot of work and headaches to do more testing and implement the patch when it was really programed to fit on iRO, adding all the customized changes on it, not just shove it on servers and expect the best out from it. Nowadays Gravity looks like Microsoft, when a bug or an error comes, dont fix, just patch it and hope it doesnt pop up later on

[sayoko]

Then why snap+cursed still avaible? >__<

I like how gms are in this now!!!!!!!!!!!! THATS THE WAY SHOULD BE!!!!

about feedback................ what do you guys want? all my feedback on sorcerer its there, 100% real fact

about cast times? just look at physical atacks having 0 or 1 seconds variable cast time WITH NO FIXED CAST TIME, while all mage/sage/wiz/scholar/hwiz and specific pathetics skills like earth grave/varetyr spear/severe rainstorm, this skills have insane variable cast times and fixed cast times+ poor and weak damage

Storm gust variable cast time? 15 seconds in total+ 5 after cast delay. Now compare to any physical atack

PLEASE CHANGE THE CAST TIMES OF EARTH GRAVE AND VARETYR SPEAR!!! (also reduce the energie coat and foresight cast times PLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS)


My suggestion for magic to get fixed at least in PVM........ update gears to give SPECIFIC BONUS JOB

HOW? EXAMPLE: ninja scroll bonus for mage class/ninja class 5% less variable cast time

Kronos: Give a Matk boost, and give it the same effect of KVM staff(ignoring mdef and more damage per upgrade) BUT REDUCE MAGICAL DAMAGE AGAINST DEMI-HUMAN MONSTERS BY 90%

Also a update to the crown of deceit bonus only for mageclass...... like more int or a mdef bypass effect

This could apply for wanderer/maestro to........... ITS JUST A SUGGESTION, a feedback........ i dont know how to call it XD since you guys say that all those replys in feedback post, ARE NOT FEEDBACK >___________>


In my personal opinion............. balance patch its not bad, wrong things:

The super buff to Gx damage

The nerf to the wanderer/maestro/sorcerer........... they where in need of BUFF NOT A NERF!

[Oda]

The updates we are receiving from kRO require the previous patch to be implemented to be able to add to the game. While having a good 2-3 weeks to test sakray would have been preferable, it wasn't possible in this case. If it wasn't added in, 14.1 couldn't have come in, if 14.1 doesn't go in our update schedule gets pushed back to a degree that we really don't want.

[TheSquishy]

What I'm raging about

Classes that were already struggling being made unplayable in PvM and as such, have no chance of
reaching a level that they can WoE.

This is the thing that pisses me off the most and is the deciding factor for me not renewing my 2 VIP accounts
in January. If it wasn't for that damn mechanic that I have insisted on playing through thick and thin, I would
probably be MIA till this mess is fixed.

Fix double nerfs-pick a nerf and stick with it. Some classes are hit with compound nerfs for no reason at all.
Can we reject fixes and formulas we don't like? I know JRO does. Some new nerfs make old ones unnecessary.
Once major bugs are repaired, a huge effort will need to be made to revise formulas so people can at
least level their characters.

On the other side of things

Congratulation GXs for actually being able to kill people now.
It was silly how an assassin class couldn't kill for beans.
No, they aren't OP, they just haven't been on the threat radar for so long that people have forgotten
how to defend against them. If you have under 30K HP, you are suppose to be afraid of being 1HKO by an assassin.
This and the no vending next to NPCs. At least something turned out right.

[sayoko]

The updates we are receiving from kRO require the previous patch to be implemented to be able to add to the game. While having a good 2-3 weeks to test sakray would have been preferable, it wasn't possible in this case. If it wasn't added in, 14.1 couldn't have come in, if 14.1 doesn't go in our update schedule gets pushed back to a degree that we really don't want.

my question now its...... the kro gamers where happy when this update arrived on their servers O,O

oh well, better early late than never, actually like i said before my QQ its only about a few things, i dont see any other problem in the balance(at this point XS)

i will stop posting, and every one that cant post something new should stop posting now, lets heimdad and oda work on their mess XD

HOW TO STOP OUR QQ?????????????????? PLEASE, POST ANY PLANS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO FIX THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by sayoko, 16 December 2011 - 12:23 PM.

[shurareki]

Feedback given before it is even on Sakray is IGNORED because it is not feedback based on fact, it is based on speculation.

And the feedback on specifics is very poor in general, complaints of general I feel underpowered or I want this skill to be stronger isn't nearly as helpful as:


Arrow Storm has a long cast time, a small AOE, and poor damage, increasing damage so that it is double that of Double Strafe applied to an area could be a better solution.


I agree that there are very specific feedbacsk that some have given which fits the criteria for us to move on with requesting the changes. This was a problem last year, as 1 person trying to collect data that is not well presented is a monumental task especially when some players don't post factual information. There have in fact been many posts with players posting downright lies about what a skill effect currently is, and then others have to correct them. That sort of "noise" is not only aggitating to us but it aslo stirs up more problems in the community.

I am going to be making 3 threads 1 for cast time issues, 1 for damage issues, 1 for odd effect issues (like can't do x after casting)

We already know we are going to be messing with cast times, but to what degree isn't decided yet, and I know some skills have damage issues like it is scaled back too much for its cost or cast time.



The threads will be pinned in the 14.1 feedback section.

The focus for getting the skill updates on the main servers was first and foremost knocking out showstopping bugs, conflicts with VIP or other systems and making sure that the servers weren't sideways and on fire on Wednesday morning. With the size of our team we have to work with what we've got.

I'll be updating the drydock thread and putting a "Oda: we're testing this/Oda: can you get screenshots/Oda: this will be fixed next maintenance" on bug report posts.

The response to this thread by the team is getting me hopeful.
i just wished that instead of several updates that we get late we would get 3 or 4 updates from my understanding KRO has these updates before we do and they got some before we even got our first. i was saying a while back that i thought most people even tho they were complaining about not having the balance patch would probably rather wait for a polished one then get a broken one. it probably would have been a massive update but at least people wouldn't have lost hope.
i always try to look at this game from a new players perspective even tho i have played for years on and off.
but this game really isnt for new people. if you dont already have friends in it its really hard to play.