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#26 Randalf

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:27 AM

Performers

Chorus Skills
Pre-patch skill: Requires 2 Performers, scales in effectiveness with increased performer numbers.
Post-patch skill: Requires 2 Performers, scales in effectiveness with increased performer numbers.

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
iRO's population is too small for this. Make buff effects scale with party size number, like Coluseo Heal.





Solo Performer Skills

Pre-patch skill: Overlap was allowed, allowing multiple performers in a party to contribute.
Post-patch skill: You can have at most 2 performer buffs (one of each group) at a time.

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back: So half of our skills benefit from tons of Performers in the party, and the other half are basically unusable because of this buff exclusivity if there's another Performer in the party? It's absolutely ridiculous.




Deep Sleep Lullaby
Pre-patch skill: Probably too strong.
Post-patch skill: Pathetic.

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back: The skill description says a minimum of 5 seconds. It puts a 150/50 Gx with 1 base int to sleep for 5 seconds, when the formula puts it at 10/12. It doesn't even affect classes with high int. At least make it match the description. It's also supposed to be usable in PVM, but it's not.



Song of Despair
Pre-patch skill: Can cast under people, affects enemies and allies alike.
Post-patch skill: Can't cast under people, affects enemies and allies (outside your party) alike.

http://img.photobuck...Ymir_VIP024.jpg
http://img.photobuck...Ymir_VIP025.jpg
Why you would like to see this changed/changed back: Although it was supposed to no longer affect allies, it is yet another change that was listed but didn't come out as planned. I know for a fact I was snaring my own guildmates, it appears the "ally shield" is just for party members. It should be guildmates AND allied guilds during WoE. It is supposed to be usable in PVM too, but it's not.




Lerad's Dew/Circle of Nature/Song of Mana
Pre-patch skill: Increases Max HP by 1000 at level 5 (3000 with a full performer party)/20 SP drained for 200 HP gained per second/10 SP per 5 seconds (32 SP per 5 seconds with a full performer party)
Post-patch skill: Same.

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back: They suck. They actually make the "Group A/B" nerf LESS of a nerf because the amount of good buff skills a performer has is so limited. The amount of HP/SP they grant is absolutely pathetic for serious play, especially when taking into account you lose Swing Dance/Windmill Rush/Dances With Wargs/Sinking Melody/Warcry. You know, the somewhat usable skills. These skills will NEVER BE USED in their current form.
Making them scale with the overly inflated HP/SP values of 150/50 characters is a good start.
Lerad's Dew would almost be usable if the max performer number was its base increase.
Circle of Nature would need a much faster conversion. Maybe give it a nice fat (5 minutes? 10 minutes?) cooldown, but increase the SP/HP drain 10/20-fold and design it as an emergency super heal for a party.
Song of Mana having its "full performer effect" made baseline would make it ok. SP restoring isn't a huge deal in party play and in WoE any class with SP needs just spams their blues/yggs. I'm not sure how you'd even make this one good.
Of course none of that matters as long as these skills can't overlap with the "superior" Performer skills.


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#27 asayuu

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:42 AM

@Akin:

There was data released about the skills before (and while) Renewal was being in testing on kRO. The data is unchanged and can be read at Doddlercon's wiki.

The link is this one: http://ro.doddlercon...erer_/_Minstrel

There is stuff about all the classes.

@Randalf:

omg do you want to transform Circle of Nature on this? http://irowiki.org/wiki/Restoration

or this? http://irowiki.org/wiki/Regeneration

aka "mega magnificats"

And here we go again...

[Maestro / Wanderer]
Skills: Great Echo and Song of Destruction
Pre-patch: Damaging chorus skills.
Post-patch: STILL damaging chorus skills.

Why and what to change:

WHICH damaging skill in the game REQUIRES another character of the same class to BE ABLE TO CAST a skill?

Let me see...

BS Sacramenti... Not a damaging skill.
Gangster's Paradise... Passive.
Banding... A buff.
Comet... Can be used without a second warlock. The second warlock boosts the damage.
Adoramus... Can be used without a second bishop. The second bishop removes gem consumption.

And as Akin stated, being unable to remove enemy performer's buffs with Song of Destruction may be a little bad too. Maybe a function like RK's Phantom Thrust does? [No damage, no status effects (that stun chance) but making the intended effect. And even being 100% success rate ^^]

... Or maybe if the overlaps are removed, the debuffs could have a chance to be removed with Circle of Nature, giving an utility to the skill.


Edited by asayuu, 18 December 2011 - 08:53 AM.

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#28 Randalf

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:54 AM

@Randalf:

omg do you want to transform Circle of Nature on this? http://irowiki.org/wiki/Restoration

or this? http://irowiki.org/wiki/Regeneration

aka "mega magnificats"


I'm just trying to think of a way it can be useful. I completely forgot that skill exists because it's exclusive with the almighty Recall. Kind of like people forget Circle of Nature exists because it's exclusive with other Performer skills.
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#29 Roman

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:13 AM

Ranger
Warg Bite
Pre-balance: Lasted a long time
Post-balance: Doesnt last as long (specifics don't matter, because duration is not my complaint)

Request for change:
Warg bite acts as a rude strike against higher level monsters, causing them to instantly teleport away. This makes it incredibly useless. This is the one skill that lets us use Aimed Bolt decently. In a end game area it is not practical to lure them into an Ankle Snare. Scarabs, bio3, and Bloody Knight I know for a fact teleport away when I use this skill. Aimed bolt is useless without a monster being immobilized.
Change Warg Bite to not count as a rude hit, or make Aimed Bolt NOT suck when enemy is not immobilized.


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#30 Xellie

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:46 PM

I think if that were the case a better player will use a second EDP after change Weapon, it's not that in not agree with you but your argument isn't solid enough.


Small comment on this, EDP has a really long global delay....

.... this is the wrong thread for what I wanted to post :)
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#31 Cylon

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:02 PM

Mechanic
Arm canon: player targeted

Request: change back to ground targeted :-)
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#32 Mwrip

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:46 PM

I can understand why an 80% chance on Frosty in WoE was insane, but this nerf has rendered the combo next to useless in PvM. Since they did different success chances on WI for PvM vs. WoE, I suggest doing the same here: keep the nerf for WoE, but lose it in PvM. That was one of the few things that gave us any value to a non-TI party, and now it's gone.

Edited by Mwrip, 18 December 2011 - 09:46 PM.

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#33 Phil

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 12:54 AM

Dark Illusion

Damage: ATK 100%
Global Skill Delay: 1.5 second
Cross Impact Activation chance: (4 * Skill Level) %
9 Range (10 if standing exactly 10 cells away)
Cannot be used in WoE maps

Post-patch skill
Same effects as pre-patch
Can be used in WoE maps

The patch was supposed to make DI usable in WoE maps but i tried it last WoE 1 and it didn't work atm =(

Edited by Phil, 19 December 2011 - 12:54 AM.

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#34 meoryou2

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 10:42 AM

Ranger:

Warg Rider:

Pre patch: movement increase - 10% less than peco / peco speed / 10% more than peco, can only use traps, no other skills or attacking.
Post patch: movement increase - 10% less than peco / peco speed / 10% more than peco, can only use traps, no other skills or attacking.

Change:
level 1-3: increase movement speed / regain ASPD and HIT while mounted - 10% slower than peco: 50% ASPD and HIT rate / peco speed 75% ASPD and HIT / 10% faster than peco 100% ASPD and hit.

Why: Because the other classes with mounts that need skill points can use all their skills and attacks at 100% on their mounts with the skill maxed. This skill was only really good for trap rangers, and traps are not really that useful anymore. This negates pretty much the whole usefulness of this skill.
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#35 Susan

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 02:33 PM

Played arround on my mech, this is what i found !

Bugs:

Mechanic
Hover
Hovering boost needs to be equipped to even cast the skill.
All the other skills work with the item only in inventory, only the Hovering Boost item doesnt work like that. Should be fixed.

Mechanic
Maximum power-thrust
Before patch: stays
After patch: deactives when switching gear
Terrible bug, please fix!

Mechanic
Cooldown
Doesn't remove overheat. But overheat cant be removed by relogging anymore. So theres no way to remove it right now, which is what the skill should be for...



Suggestions:

Mechanic
Repair
Before: Heals using 3 weight fuel
After: heals using 10-18 weight fuel
The Repair A - C items need to be less heavy.

Mechanic
Divest FAW
It divests the FAW but you don't regen any items. Like remove traps, it should at least give half the items back.

Mechanic

Woe Mount NPC
Since Suicidal Destruction has a 5min cooldown now, the WoE NPC should have the mado gear cooldown removed, so people dont have to warp to prontera when they die. Mount options at every single Kafra should be considered, as well as not losing mado gear when dying. Theres no longer any chance of "abusing" Suicidal Destruction with the 5min cooldown.


Description wrong and misleading:
Mechanic
FAW magic decoy
You need sorcerers Point items now, instead of ele stones.

Mechanic
Elemental Shift
You need Sorcerers Point items now, instead of ele stones.


Small edit:

Mechanic
Neutral Barrier
this definetly needs to block Earth Quake again. it was the only cool skill that is useful and makes mechanics useful in mvp parties / ET

Edited by Susan, 28 December 2011 - 10:10 AM.

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#36 cybernetic

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 04:33 PM

If EDP canceling after weapon switch won't be changed, at least make it have no delay.

It was fine pre-renewal, don't change what isn't broken.
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#37 Xyst

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:52 PM

To be honest I want to improve the usage of Banding on RG
[Royal Guard]
Inspiration

Pre-patch skill
While you are in Inspiration Status Counts as 3 RG in Banding

Post-patch skill
No Change

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
This is the thing that directly kills Banding. Its allow you to use RoG Dealing Masive Damage. So it's make RoG a Killer Machine while Inspiration but you can not use it properly to leveling or any other situations. I think that it should be change just at 1 Banding count.

Banding
Pre-patch skill
SP drain: (7 - 1 * Skill Level) SP per 5 seconds
If there are more than two Royal Guard with Banding active within 7x7 cell range of each other, increases Royal Guardsâ?? ATK and DEF.
Royal Guards will regenerate HP 50% faster and they will share same average HP.
ATK increase: [# of Royal Guard party members x (10 + 10 * Skill Level)]
DEF increase: [# of Royal Guard party members x (5 + 1 * Skill Level)]
Overawe chance: [(Casterâ??s Base Level / 5) + (Banding Skill Level x 5) - (Targetâ??s AGI / 10)] %
AoE: 7x7
Overawe movement reduction: 90%
Movement reduction duration: (Banding Skill Level x 2) seconds

Post-patch skill
No Change

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
This is a super strong defensive/ofensive skill but it's lack of a proper scenario to get his full potential. I propose change it to something that will help more in any scenario.
1- The ATK and DEF bonus should be add for every RG in the party and in the screen, but just to the RG in Banding.
2- The HP share and 50% of regenerate just add to the RG in Banding.
3- Make the AoE of the HP Share bigger something like 15*15
4- Add a bonus of Magic Attack to bost a bit the solo usage of RoG.

Royal Guard

Ray of Genesis
Pre-patch skill
Needs 3 RG in Banding to be use.

Post-patch skill
No Change

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
Just make that needs just one RG in Banding, and the bonus damage is add for every RG in party and in screen at the same time. Tha way we will have something similar to the old version of Grand Cross Sader/Paladin but with a stronger skill, and not just a emergency skill to kill in pvp while we are in Inspiration.

Royal Guard

Hesperus Lit
Pre-patch skill
Needs 3 RG in Banding to be use.

Post-patch skill
No Change

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
Just make that needs just one RG in Banding, and the bonus damage is add for every RG in party and in screen at the same time. This is one of the most stronger skill in the game but the requeriments to be usefull are so hard to get that right now is one of the skill that anyone will use ever. It's has a long cooldown and it deserve because with 4 or 5 RG well geared is a sure kill in my opinion. I also think that a buff in the damage is wellcome.



I don't think that this will kill the Inspiration at all but will make more people try the Banding build.
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#38 Allysia

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:36 AM

[Shadow Chaser]

Reproduce

Pre-patch effect:
When copyed skill is use twice the sp consume

Post-patch effect:
When you copy skill the original sp is consume

Why would you like this changed/changed back:

I dont know if this topic goes here but I would like this to go back to the original effect as It is too much sp consuming. Also some skill consume 100 sp (crimson rock) and when u copy it with reproduce u will use up twice the original sp.


I agree with this, since I use Reproduce as main skill for leveling on my Shadow Chaser, I would like to have it as pre-skill balance.
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#39 Mafsnet

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:06 PM

To be honest I want to improve the usage of Banding on RG
[Royal Guard]
Inspiration

Pre-patch skill
While you are in Inspiration Status Counts as 3 RG in Banding

Post-patch skill
No Change

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
This is the thing that directly kills Banding. Its allow you to use RoG Dealing Masive Damage. So it's make RoG a Killer Machine while Inspiration but you can not use it properly to leveling or any other situations. I think that it should be change just at 1 Banding count.

Banding
Pre-patch skill
SP drain: (7 - 1 * Skill Level) SP per 5 seconds
If there are more than two Royal Guard with Banding active within 7x7 cell range of each other, increases Royal Guards�?? ATK and DEF.
Royal Guards will regenerate HP 50% faster and they will share same average HP.
ATK increase: [# of Royal Guard party members x (10 + 10 * Skill Level)]
DEF increase: [# of Royal Guard party members x (5 + 1 * Skill Level)]
Overawe chance: [(Caster�??s Base Level / 5) + (Banding Skill Level x 5) - (Target�??s AGI / 10)] %
AoE: 7x7
Overawe movement reduction: 90%
Movement reduction duration: (Banding Skill Level x 2) seconds

Post-patch skill
No Change

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
This is a super strong defensive/ofensive skill but it's lack of a proper scenario to get his full potential. I propose change it to something that will help more in any scenario.
1- The ATK and DEF bonus should be add for every RG in the party and in the screen, but just to the RG in Banding.
2- The HP share and 50% of regenerate just add to the RG in Banding.
3- Make the AoE of the HP Share bigger something like 15*15
4- Add a bonus of Magic Attack to bost a bit the solo usage of RoG.

Royal Guard

Ray of Genesis
Pre-patch skill
Needs 3 RG in Banding to be use.

Post-patch skill
No Change

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
Just make that needs just one RG in Banding, and the bonus damage is add for every RG in party and in screen at the same time. Tha way we will have something similar to the old version of Grand Cross Sader/Paladin but with a stronger skill, and not just a emergency skill to kill in pvp while we are in Inspiration.

Royal Guard

Hesperus Lit
Pre-patch skill
Needs 3 RG in Banding to be use.

Post-patch skill
No Change

Why you would like to see this changed/changed back:
Just make that needs just one RG in Banding, and the bonus damage is add for every RG in party and in screen at the same time. This is one of the most stronger skill in the game but the requeriments to be usefull are so hard to get that right now is one of the skill that anyone will use ever. It's has a long cooldown and it deserve because with 4 or 5 RG well geared is a sure kill in my opinion. I also think that a buff in the damage is wellcome.



I don't think that this will kill the Inspiration at all but will make more people try the Banding build.

^
Some of these changes would be interesting
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#40 Xyst

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:38 PM

^
Some of these changes would be interesting


Thanks I spend like 3 hours just think how to improve banding wihtout making broken, I even save some Ideas like Grand Cross lvl learned increase RoG damage (Same as Bash increase VP) but I still think that with some minor tweaks it can be a better proposition.
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#41 VanishingPoint

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:08 PM

[Sura]
Lighting Walk
Pre-balance: Instant cast and 100% proc chance
Post-balance: Instant cast, but doesn't proc at all even though the skill description stated that at Lv 5 there is a 65% of the skill proctoring.

Request for change:
Implement as skill description since Sura's don't have any defensive skills.
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#42 orven

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:38 PM

[Sura]
Lighting Walk
Pre-balance: Instant cast and 100% proc chance
Post-balance: Instant cast, but doesn't proc at all even though the skill description stated that at Lv 5 there is a 65% of the skill proctoring.

Request for change:
Implement as skill description since Sura's don't have any defensive skills.


use MS. :P
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#43 Mwrip

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:23 AM

Sura's don't have any defensive skills.


Yeah, they could let you have a defensive buff to raise multiple things, or Agi up, or a passive dodge skill, or a normal heal, or a perecentile heal that cures status effects too, or a 90% damage reduction tanking skill, or maybe a green cloud thingie that blocks all ranged attacks, or perhaps the ability to teleport to wherever you click, or a sit/stun, or a silence attached to a hit, or a freezing hit, or if they really wanted to go overboard, the ability to totally shutdown 15 enemies at a time with an unblockable skill that doesn't also disable you, but for some reason they didn't include any of that in the class.

Edited by Mwrip, 21 December 2011 - 12:23 AM.

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#44 gerpogi

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:32 AM

Yeah, they could let you have a defensive buff to raise multiple things, or Agi up, or a passive dodge skill, or a normal heal, or a perecentile heal that cures status effects too, or a 90% damage reduction tanking skill, or maybe a green cloud thingie that blocks all ranged attacks, or perhaps the ability to teleport to wherever you click, or a sit/stun, or a silence attached to a hit, or a freezing hit, or if they really wanted to go overboard, the ability to totally shutdown 15 enemies at a time with an unblockable skill that doesn't also disable you, but for some reason they didn't include any of that in the class.



this :P
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#45 firewind

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:01 AM

Enchant Blade Nerf from RK is useless bring it back to old status
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#46 novalkar

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:19 AM

[Shadow Chaser]
Skill: Manhole
Pre-patch skill: A manhole could be placed above a player or another manhole, making it able to lock a person in a spot like a sitting duck.
Post-patch skill: The above was disabled.
Proposed change: Let manholed targets be afected by masquerades / strips.

Why you would like to see this changed: Manhole was an OP skill before the balance, but after the balance, it doesn't feel that "3rd classy". Letting manholed targets be afected to chaser/stalker debuff skills would make the skill more usefull without making it OP.

Edited by novalkar, 21 December 2011 - 07:20 AM.

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#47 asayuu

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:22 AM

[Shadow Chaser]
Skill: Manhole
Pre-patch skill: A manhole could be placed above another manhole, making it able to lock a person in a spot
Post-patch skill: The above was disabled.
Proposed change: Let manholed targets be afected by masquerades / strips.

Why you would like to see this changed: Manhole was an OP skill before the balance, but after the balance, it doesn't feel that "3rd classy". Letting manholed targets be afected to chaser/stalker debuff skills would make the skill more usefull without making it OP.


Hmmm... Yes. You can do everything of this with Close Confine, a second class [quest] skill... So why not with Manhole? The permalock was stupid though.

*thinking deeply* OMG THEY SHOULD MAKE CLOSE CONFINE BE PREREQ FOR MANHOLE INSTEAD OF PIECE AND REMOVER D:

Edited by asayuu, 21 December 2011 - 07:23 AM.

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#48 Mwrip

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:09 PM

*thinking deeply* OMG THEY SHOULD MAKE CLOSE CONFINE BE PREREQ FOR MANHOLE INSTEAD OF PIECE AND REMOVER D:


That would make a hell of a lot more sense, rather than requiring 2 skills that don't even exist, and likely never will.
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#49 novalkar

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:35 PM

[Shadow Chaser]
Skill: Dimensional Door
Pre-patch skill: Teleports anyone who steps into the area to a random place in the map
Post-patch skill: only works on party members.
Proposed change: let the destiny of a DD to be a random fixed location.

Why you would like to see this changed: Dimensional Door is a skill that doesn't make any sense as it is right now, random teleporting a character is easily archived by using a flywing, there is no practical situation where the use of this skill would match the use of teleport or a flywing. By making this skill to teleport everyone in the party who steps on it to the same random place would be better because this way it can be used to regroup the party instead of scatter it, which is way more useful in a PVM enviorment. It would also help to increase the movement speed of the parties as how Giant Wings help now, this would make SC a better class to party with since Post-Balance they don't have many skills to help in a party which can compare to other classes.
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#50 Phil

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:03 PM

So is there any chance of at least Lightning ride being reverted to pre patch? since scarabs are buffed, using TC is kinda not viable since even with full gods+proper shield/reducs u cant even land a combo even using both windmill/Earthshaker to stun them (not even 100%) without lowering ur HP to critical and when used with TC becomes an instant death skill since scarab's attacks are somewhat delayed like how darklord/dark illusions attack

SNB is also an option but for non agi sura's i dont think it will be usefull much

need a answer so i would decide if ill stick with TC and find a way out of it or just reset to snb OR LR if its getting fixed
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