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#51 Akin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 02:07 PM

Class: Maestro/Wanderer
Skill: Song of Mana

Pre-patch formula: regen 10 SP every 5 seconds, +2 SP for each additional performer over 2 (total of 30 SP per 5 seconds with 12 performers).
Post-patch formula: regen 10 SP every 5 seconds, +5 SP for each additional performer over 2 (capped at 35 SP per 5 seconds).

Why I want to see this skill changed: Let's face it, on iRO there will never be 7 performers in a party to reach the 35 SP regeneration, nor would there ever have been a chance to have 12 before the patch. Additionally, Magnificat provides a better buff as it effectively doubles SP regeneration by halving the regen times to 4 seconds while standing and 2 seconds while sitting. Yet Song of Mana requires two performers. Consider one of the three following options instead:

A) Skill recovers 35 SP every 6 seconds. Each performer over 2 reduces that regen time by 1 second at a cap of 7 performers for a total of 35 SP recovered every 1 second. Swap the re-use delay (90 seconds currently) and the duration (120 seconds currently).

:angry: Skill recovers 5 SP, for every person in the party (no cap, for a max of 60 SP), every 5 seconds. Swap the re-use delay and duration again. Each extra performer reduces the delay by 6 seconds for a 90 second duration and re-use delay.

C) Skill recovers 20 SP every 5 seconds. Each performer over 2 and up to 7 increases regeneration by 10, for a max of 70 SP every 5 seconds. Again, swap the re-use delay and the duration.

Or any combination of the 3.
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#52 Dreimdal

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:59 AM

Sura

Gentle Touch Skills Tree:

Pre-Patch: No cooldown

Post-Patch: 3mins+ cooldown and as support skill, how can you cast it to all your 11 other party mates if its like forever to re-use it :angry: Make all support Suras default to go only one build w/c is Gates of Hell

Change: The way it was before without forever-like cooldown

I'd like to further propose that the sphere requirement go back down. For example, GT Cure is 4 spheres now, when it used to be just one, GT Revitalize is 5 spheres, when it used to be only two, and so on. Basically, put all five of the Gentle Touch skills back to how they were prior to the so-called "balance". The changes were unnecessary and don't actually contribute to a "balance" between characters.

Btw, sorry to correct you Hayroh, but it's actually a 2-minute delay now, not 3+ minutes. Just stating that for the sake of factual accuracy.

Lightning Ride:

Pre-Patch: No cast time

Post-Patch: Fix 2 secs cast time; now you die before finishing casting it in a middle of mobs :D

Change: The way it was before without fix cast time or make it variable w/dex...

Just put it back to how it was before. Don't even make it "variable w/dex". LR was totally fine the way it was pre-patch.


A few more things for Monk/Campion/Sura:

Guillotine Fist needs to be a ten-second delay on the skill, NOT a ten-second delay on SP-restoration. In fact, make it a 12-second delay to satisfy Sura-haters. Those 2 extra seconds are about the time it takes to spam SP items back up to full SP.

Zen takes waaaay too long to cast now. Needs to go back to how it was before the balance patch.

Gates of Hell needs to have the portion of damage added by having low HP nerfed. It's too strong. It also needs to have the base damage (before the current-HP modifier), reduced by about 10%. Don't nerf it too much or it'll be useless for people without godly gear. Don't balance the game around people with god-tier gear.

Cursed Circle needs to have a 2 second delay on usage of GFist and GoH. In other words, after the cursed circle ends (not after the skill is used), the casting Sura can use any skill other than Guillotine Fist and Gates of Hell for 2 seconds. This allows time for target victims to get away or to attack the Sura, instead of being sitting ducks for an after-CC GFist.

This will also encourage more party-play, rather than one-man-army mentality amongst Suras. In other words, Sura uses Cursed Circle and waits for his buddies to kill the circled victims, rather than doing the killing himself. "Tag-teaming" is more fun and more tactical than "solo killing machine".
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#53 Susan

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 04:16 AM

Can you please let us choose what level, for example Mental Strength, we want to use?

It was really nice to have the option to choose the level of every single skill, idk why you removed that =(
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#54 DeltaRay

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:35 PM

Sura


I'd like to further propose that the sphere requirement go back down. For example, GT Cure is 4 spheres now, when it used to be just one, GT Revitalize is 5 spheres, when it used to be only two, and so on. Basically, put all five of the Gentle Touch skills back to how they were prior to the so-called "balance". The changes were unnecessary and don't actually contribute to a "balance" between characters.

Btw, sorry to correct you Hayroh, but it's actually a 2-minute delay now, not 3+ minutes. Just stating that for the sake of factual accuracy.


Just put it back to how it was before. Don't even make it "variable w/dex". LR was totally fine the way it was pre-patch.


A few more things for Monk/Campion/Sura:

Guillotine Fist needs to be a ten-second delay on the skill, NOT a ten-second delay on SP-restoration. In fact, make it a 12-second delay to satisfy Sura-haters. Those 2 extra seconds are about the time it takes to spam SP items back up to full SP.

Zen takes waaaay too long to cast now. Needs to go back to how it was before the balance patch.

Gates of Hell needs to have the portion of damage added by having low HP nerfed. It's too strong. It also needs to have the base damage (before the current-HP modifier), reduced by about 10%. Don't nerf it too much or it'll be useless for people without godly gear. Don't balance the game around people with god-tier gear.

Cursed Circle needs to have a 2 second delay on usage of GFist and GoH. In other words, after the cursed circle ends (not after the skill is used), the casting Sura can use any skill other than Guillotine Fist and Gates of Hell for 2 seconds. This allows time for target victims to get away or to attack the Sura, instead of being sitting ducks for an after-CC GFist.

This will also encourage more party-play, rather than one-man-army mentality amongst Suras. In other words, Sura uses Cursed Circle and waits for his buddies to kill the circled victims, rather than doing the killing himself. "Tag-teaming" is more fun and more tactical than "solo killing machine".

thats because gates of hell HP portion of the formula isnt reduced by cranial hell I dont even know if garments reduce it either since DB isnt reduced by jak card at all.
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#55 Viri

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 06:25 PM

garments dont reduce the hp portion. Nothing % does.
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#56 Hyperballad

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:55 AM

Thank you for reading.

1) Song Overlapping
I think the system really discourages partying of more performers, though ironically more performers
are needed for better effects. Why would you have more than two performers in the party when you can
only get two buffs from them. Also, I don't agree with the Group A / Group B distinction.

Situation: My Maestro is in a party with mostly magic damage-dealers. The Wanderer in the party uses
Moonlight Serenade, leaving me barred from using any of my songs. I doubt they would want Echo Song
instead.

My suggestion: Keep A and B Groups, but make it separate for each performer. Meaning, each performer
in the party can cast up to one Group A song and one Group B song (obviously not stacking, e.g. 3 Maestros
can't give 3x Windmill Rush). That way each performer can contribute to the party instead of being
relegated to DS or something.

2) Reverberance

Remove damage sharing over the number of targets.
EDIT: Perhaps increase the activation radius? Right now it's 1x1..
Hard to convince someone to step on the exact same cell as the trap is
visibly glowing on.

3) Dominion Impulse

Make the activated Reverberances have increased range. From 3x3 to 5x5.

4) Metallic Sound

I really like THE IDEA of this skill. It's my favourite out of all the 3rd class performer skills,
though I think it's poorly executed. One big problem is that if you want to use this skill to its
maximum potential, you need Voice Lesson lv10. With VL10, the SP drain is 1/10 of the damage.
If your VL is not 10, the SP drain falls exponentially. I think people who want to go this interesting way
should be rewarded for putting points into VL and Metallic Sound:

A) Halve the delay
:unsure: A)+Increase the overall damage
C) A)+Leave the sucky damage but greatly increase %SP drain

Edited by Hyperballad, 25 December 2011 - 10:19 PM.

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#57 Ralis

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 10:11 AM

[Royal Guard]
Inspiration
Pre-patch: No EXP requirement at 150
Post-patch: 1% regardless of level (1 million EXP at level 150)
Why it needs to be changed:

1. Wipes all buffs, meaning Royal Guards have to spend about thirty seconds just buffing up again, leaving only around a minute for the skill.
2. Five minute cooldown at the highest level. It's even longer if it's not maxed.
3. It takes 33 skill points just to get the skill maxed. Very limiting to builds.
4. Asking Royal Guards to get 1 million EXP every time they want to use it isn't fair. We've already reached 150... Why do we need to be the only class to actively level AFTER we reach max level?
5. While it does add some great stats, it doesn't make us invulnerable. We can still be Dispelled, Manholed, Soul Siphoned, killed, etc.

If nothing else, at least lower the 1% EXP cost to the .1% that was originally intended. I can handle 100k EXP per cast, but I can't handle 1 million when monsters (and MVPs, which I primarily use it for) give such mediocre EXP.
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#58 Hrishi

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 10:35 AM

4. Asking Royal Guards to get 1 million EXP every time they want to use it isn't fair. We've already reached 150... Why do we need to be the only class to actively level AFTER we reach max level?

If nothing else, at least lower the 1% EXP cost to the .1% that was originally intended. I can handle 100k EXP per cast, but I can't handle 1 million when monsters (and MVPs, which I primarily use it for) give such mediocre EXP.


I will point out that high priests had to do this too, in order to use redemptio.

MvP experience recently got buffed(un-nerfed?) so I don't know what mediocre EXP you are talking about either.
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#59 Pril

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:17 PM

Redemptio could at least get the exp cost to 0. Ex. a number of the reflect parties that used redemptio over a wall either had enough suiciders or brought in random slaves to suicide with to negate the cost.

Be honest with yourself, would anyone ever use inspiration at all, given its current cost?
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#60 Ralis

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 06:43 PM

I will point out that high priests had to do this too, in order to use redemptio.

MvP experience recently got buffed(un-nerfed?) so I don't know what mediocre EXP you are talking about either.


Pril pointed this out, but in most cases when Redemptio was actually needed it did not cost anything.

I wasn't aware of the changes to EXP for MVPs, I'd have to look at them again. Regardless, because of the lack of Inspiration, I can't kill a lot of the stuff that I used to without stacking tons and tons of Dex / Hit Food (I relied a lot on the Hit bonus of Inspiration to hit MVPs).
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#61 Hrishi

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:46 PM

I wasn't aware of the changes to EXP for MVPs, I'd have to look at them again. Regardless, because of the lack of Inspiration, I can't kill a lot of the stuff that I used to without stacking tons and tons of Dex / Hit Food (I relied a lot on the Hit bonus of Inspiration to hit MVPs).


And that changes how? You can still use inspiration and kill said MvP (whichever you are talking about), and get EXP to compensate for the EXP you lost.
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#62 Xellie

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 10:28 PM

Pril pointed this out, but in most cases when Redemptio was actually needed it did not cost anything.

I wasn't aware of the changes to EXP for MVPs, I'd have to look at them again. Regardless, because of the lack of Inspiration, I can't kill a lot of the stuff that I used to without stacking tons and tons of Dex / Hit Food (I relied a lot on the Hit bonus of Inspiration to hit MVPs).


Just keep levelling :unsure: I had to do that on my HP for bio/ET/SS for redemptio.
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#63 Ralis

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 10:29 PM

Buffed MVPs with more HP means more Inspirations. =/ Takes me five or six to kill a lot of the high end stuff. Lower end that dies in one still doesn't seem to give enough EXP to make up for it.

Also doesn't count the uses in WoE, which requires a good 10 million EXP in itself.

How many people were you ressing with Redemptio? =/ Only takes 5 to make the EXP requirement zero, any less than that it seems a waste when you could just res them normally.

Edited by Ralis, 25 December 2011 - 10:31 PM.

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#64 Xellie

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 11:29 PM

Buffed MVPs with more HP means more Inspirations. =/ Takes me five or six to kill a lot of the high end stuff. Lower end that dies in one still doesn't seem to give enough EXP to make up for it.

Also doesn't count the uses in WoE, which requires a good 10 million EXP in itself.

How many people were you ressing with Redemptio? =/ Only takes 5 to make the EXP requirement zero, any less than that it seems a waste when you could just res them normally.


2 or 3 usually.... over walls so they could wing to reset in bio.

1 in ET, you know... reflect killing SS bapho??

except in ET, that would be over wall with the mvp in one corner, me at the door and some of the party at the bottom (or vice versa)
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#65 lainee

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:46 AM

Buffed MVPs with more HP means more Inspirations. =/ Takes me five or six to kill a lot of the high end stuff. Lower end that dies in one still doesn't seem to give enough EXP to make up for it.

Also doesn't count the uses in WoE, which requires a good 10 million EXP in itself.


That's the point of the cost. The devs did not want unlimited use of a very powerful skill that gives a huge advantage.


How many people were you ressing with Redemptio? =/ Only takes 5 to make the EXP requirement zero, any less than that it seems a waste when you could just res them normally.


There were many situations when you had to use it with less than 5 (granted most were pre-renewal when that was the case such as bio's etc). I'm not sure you were playing back then, but losing and regaining that type of XP at level 99 was 'serious business'. Now you just need to do a few TI's each time the 135-150 bracket happens. Get VIP, put it all in base. No problem and no reason to change the XP cost to Inspiration.

Edited by lainee, 26 December 2011 - 11:30 AM.

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#66 Ralis

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 11:44 AM

Why would you Redemptio Reflect SS Bapho? D: Ice Wall and Res...
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#67 Hrishi

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:42 PM

Why would you Redemptio Reflect SS Bapho? D: Ice Wall and Res...


And what if you didn't bring a High Wiz? Why is it even a relevant question on this thread anyway?
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#68 Xellie

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 06:26 PM

Why would you Redemptio Reflect SS Bapho? D: Ice Wall and Res...


No offense, did you ever actually do SS bapho on a regular basis? You could duo it with redemptio anyway. You shouldn't be making judgement calls on a class you don't play (priest)

I won't mind using 1% on my RG tho. It's not like it's a huge amount really.
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#69 Aeroku

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 06:53 PM

1% isn't much. since balance patch thing, i'm honestly racking up a crap loads of exp from mvping alone. pretty sure i've racked up ~ 150m or more exp from mvping, where back then i don't really get jack-_- exp from it.

Edited by Aeroku, 26 December 2011 - 06:53 PM.

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#70 Ralis

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:41 AM

Yes, we did SS Bapho regularly with two or three of us. Tried the Redemptio method before and thought it was way too slow.

I'm all for removing the EXP requirement on Redemptio, actually, since Reflect Killing is no longer a viable option.

If the EXP changes are that great, though, I'll have to look into trying it out again.

Edited by Ralis, 27 December 2011 - 12:42 AM.

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#71 Hrishi

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 01:43 AM

I'm all for removing the EXP requirement on Redemptio, actually, since Reflect Killing is no longer a viable option.


I would not be. There is a reason certain skills have a cost.
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#72 asayuu

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 05:24 AM

[Maestro/Wanderer]
Skill: Improvised Song

Effect: Casts a random skill from Mage/Wizard classes.

What and Why change: WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS SKILL? If the purpose is deal damage, I'm up for adding warlock spells on this. If the purpose is support, I'm up for adding sage spells on this.

Also. Max level should increase the chance of using ultimate spells, instead of only raising the level of them. Also. We can't even use WB/FP level 9 with maxed Improvised Song... Hmmm...


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#73 Puppet

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 11:56 AM

Dark Illusion Level should be 5 cell range, yet it has a 1 cell range please fix
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#74 Phil

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:12 PM

bumping for Dark Illusion still cant be used in woe maps, any chance to fix this before the normal woes start?
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#75 Aeroku

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:30 PM

not sure if this is a bug or it is an intended effect but... (mind me for not using the template)

does SW (safety wall) from mvp bypass pneuma? right now when I pneuma a mvp that can use SW, they can actually SW right under pneuma, making them both invulnerable to physical and ranged attack. if this is a bug, please fix it.
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