210 replies to this topic

[Iplaihardcore]

Well I'ma make my first post count!

I am an old old RO player back from just after BETA finished and live was released. I quit around the first release of Trans Classes around 2006 I think, maybe earlier, can't remember.

Reading up and following Doddler about kRO renewal I got curious to try it once it hit iRO.

Well I think I wasted 10$ because here are some issues I have that really kind of ruined the game:

1. The new leveling curve just seems more of a grind then it used to be for some reason, I like the implementation of Quests and large exp bonuses from them, but Mob exp is so low, it is not even funny, especially after 99, monster exp just feels stupid low, like below .01 or something because I killed tons of level ~101 mobs (desert wolves, maybe they're 103, forgot) and it just seemed I never gained much exp at all :/, this brings me to 2..

2. Quests are only good for one thing.. exp so far, it is kind of boring and pointless, adding rewards like items, gears and zeny will add a good flavor to the game, even possibly cards for harder quests, food, just any kind of rewards in general.

3.MATK formula, is, I have no words for this, I do not know what Koreans think, but this gotta be the dumbest move they made, that goes to 4 now..

4.STR, seriously? why even have that stat now? 100 str = 100 atk? screw that i put all those points into agi, vit and luk and dex for my rune knight because lets face it, a little more weight and 100 atk is nothing compared to higher survival stats.

5.Drop rate scaling.. omfg.. that's all I can say, it is no going to fix bot issues, just do on login image confirmation and ingame random messages that pop up and ask to clik something or type something in, it is not very hard to script (there are a few p servers I heard do this, so no excuses).

6.Boring mobs, for some reason I remember mobs being more interactive and used more skills, in which you had to learn how to cope with each one and l2p to get better, now they just seem bland.. using one skill every now and then..

7.Mob placement, drainliars in Al'de dungeon with penemonas that are like 30 levels higher than them? wth.. Try actually arranging all monsters in level bases rather than type in each dungeon/map, and those hunter flys have always been a pain in geffen, same damn thing since ro started.

these are some thing I found so far I'll comment more as I play and find more issues.

[Sera]

#4: 100 strength = 100 ATK and also +50% weapon ATK. Strength has a hidden modifier that increases the attack power of your weapon by 0.5% per point.

[Iplaihardcore]

#4: 100 strength = 100 ATK and also +50% weapon ATK. Strength has a hidden modifier that increases the attack power of your weapon by 0.5% per point.

Hmm, didn't notice it, but still it is pretty useless imo, maybe is it was 2 atk per and 100% weapon dmg, that would be well worthwhile to invest 100 into

[Sera]

I do like the exponential stats better because now it just feels kind of meaningless to get them, one stat is the same as the next, you're not looking forward to any bonus or anything.

[NeoNilox]

I do like the exponential stats better because now it just feels kind of meaningless to get them

that's why i didn't like their same Stat point cost for more Base stats

for example: Base STR 9 => 10 which takes 2 Stat Points, has exactly teh same effect than Base STR 99 => 100 which still takes 11 Stat Points (teh WeapAtk just stacks, nothing else)

[Sera]

I have discovered the best build for all characters:

100 vit
100 dex
60 luk
100 str/int

If str, then rest of the points into int/agi/luk that order.

If int, then rest of the points into dex/int.

[Iplaihardcore]

personally I liked the old str exponent better, because every 10 was it? it added a bonus of something like 15 to atk, I don't keep an eye out on exact numbers so feel free to correct me

I like meaningful stats, diverting everything else into agi/dex/luk and int for sp just feels like str doesn't even exist for me at least

(btw Sera, why do you have a sig that says we will shake this world?, just curious on off topic)

Edited by Iplaihardcore, 28 September 2010 - 01:16 AM.

[Talvis]

At least now new players don't end up completely screwing over their charas because they put one pt into the wrong stat.

[Sera]

Yeah, but that also means there's not really any difference between a good player who understands the stats and a bad player who doesn't. RO was always something you had to learn, not so much anymore.

(btw Sera, why do you have a sig that says we will shake this world?, just curious on off topic)

Because I am awesome, and it is an awesome song, and therefore having it in my sig makes my sig also awesome.

[Iplaihardcore]

Nice, I see what you did there..


On topic, I found some other probs with game since yesterday.

I noticed some 3rd job skills are not very shining like they sound in the description. My Clashing Spiral still out damages any 3rd job skills by a mile it's just kinda of disappointing, the whole feeling of 3rd class is just looks and maybe some useful skills in utility wise rather than damage, overall i was disappointed with rune knights.

Anyone have opinions on other 3rd classes? I need more insight.


Another big problem is escalating mob health past 120, for the exp and the exponential health it was not worth killing these things at all, in thors, the mobs there had like 60k+ and took 3 spirals with a 350 weighted sword (yes sword that was kind of awesome that it wasn't using a spear) if i was using cardo that has insane 500 weight probably only takes about 2 if they both hit for 35k or so.

It just kind of leads me to rather than westernizing the game like they said they would, they are making it a bigger grind than before :/

[Sera]

Rune Knight and Royal Guard are probably the best classes in renewal in my opinion.

For Rune Knight, really, it's Dragon's Breath, Clashing, the Rune Skills, and maybe Death Bound. Death Bound is sort of hard to use, and not very good for PVM, but if someone hits you with a melee skill in PVP (like a RG), it'll OHKO them.

For Royal Guard, Reflect Damage is possibly one of the most brokenly powerful skills in the game. Just read the skill description, it does what it says. Defending Aura is also stupidly powerful in renewal, since most all the powerful skills are now ranged, it'll take a 0 off the end of practically all damage you take.

[Iplaihardcore]

Yea PvP wise Rune Knights are very attractive I have to agree.

But I am also interested in PvE much as well, and skills like Hundred Spears is just sad for what the description says, the damage is like 1/3 of clashing spiral.

I am curious if gravity went towards making the game more PvP oriented rather than PvE and not balanced in Renewal /think.

[Sera]

Dragon's Breath should be pretty good leveling. Clashing should be good at the 'killing stuff' aspect of PVM, not so much leveling though.

But really, leveling doesn't seem too terribly bad as you can even just quicken kill things now.

[Iplaihardcore]

that's a good point killing quicker is a fact but the exp still needs adjustments, if i am not mistaken getting 1% or less at level 10 per mob is worse than it used to be , I remember as a lv 10 killing things that would give me like 30% lol xD

[Talvis]

that's a good point killing quicker is a fact but the exp still needs adjustments, if i am not mistaken getting 1% or less at level 10 per mob is worse than it used to be , I remember as a lv 10 killing things that would give me like 30% lol xD

It helps even out the difficulty curve. It use to be, the early levels went too quick but the end levels were insane, but now there isn't as drastic of a change. You start out a little tougher, but the higher levels are comparably much easier.

[Namelessguy]

i like the new storage setup in renewal, but they should add a zeny storage in as well, unless im not seeing it

[Neutral12]

My pre-conceived notions have been grim: renewal will be a complete disaster. Your only real hope will be having most old players finding your changes bearable enough and having the completely new system still be intriguing to new players. Unfortunately, since I do not p2p and play on the free server, I cannot even test things out to see if it's not as bad as I thought. Sorry, but for my post, it seems all you are going to get from me at this point is why renewal was never a good idea.

From the very beginning, it seems as though the purpose of renewal was to make it just like every other MMO out there. Flat damage boosts with boring weapon mechanics. Flat or even arbitrary armor effectiveness. Level means everything in the world and even affects item drops. But I'm telling you, RO was successful because it was RO, not some other run-of-the-mill MMO with spectacular 3D graphics. If you tried to make RO just like every other MMO, it would fall on its face because its mechanics would be nothing special but everything else -- quests, graphics, content, activities -- would be severely lacking.

Here's what I don't like about renewal:

Sprites: All the 3-x class sprites are ugly, over-baked, and overall just unappealing. The names for the classes even seem to become absurd, as they are just more random synonyms on top of more random synonyms which could have easily been a lower job instead...

Variety problems still not fixed: So I hear, the guys in charge of developing this thought there was a problem with weapon variety. It would be "too hard" to make new content that was desirable. They did not like how the trend was typically maxing your attack stat, then using a 4 slot weapon carded optimally. So what they did was jack around with the mechanics, make the % cards only affect the weapon's attack... and basically, they only change what became desirable. NEWSFLASH!! Now everyone will be after the weapons with LARGE attack and a few slots. EVERYONE NOW. Before, if you had really low str or dex, it was a pretty good idea to use the lv 3 weapons with only 1-2 slots that no one else wanted. But now... guess what, those weapons will be optimal for everyone! Look, if they wanted to make new content that was really useful, all they needed to do was grow some balls and use their head. Weapons that only have like 2% chance to inflict some status or proc some mediocre skill and still don't have any slots are definitely not going to be desirable. Why wouldn't they just try to increase the slots or % chance or the power of such skills instead?

Level means everything: It was pretty cool how badly geared high level characters could get taken down by lower level characters. For instance, think of a level 95 knight with no mdef or any protection from freeze getting killed by 2 frozen JTs from a wizard. Or flip that around, level 70 knight catching a high level wizard off guard who has no vit, stunning him, and killing him. It could work both ways, and it also means the higher level player who IS more skilled and has better gear would definitely trash any low level player. But the reasons why are simple: stats, gears, and skill. Now you look at how renewal handles everything... if you are much lower level than someone else, you can't even put a dent in their HP. It isn't fair at all. When you get beaten by someone because they are higher level, it used to be because those levels gave them more HP and more stats to distribute. Now... you lose to someone who's higher level just because they are higher level. This will greatly ruin WoE too... for the players that aren't max level. Basically it boils down to this: achieve max level like everyone else or you will die super-easy and won't be able to do crap.

Now you take a look at how monsters are handled. You get less exp if the monster is lower level than you... well, OK... if we did this in RO now, I could see where developers are coming from, but with the increase in the amount of exp needed to level anyway, it seems highly redundant and unnecessary even for mild exp penalties. But no, 10 levels above and you get NOTHING. It's probably also because those monsters do no damage to you anymore and you get a huge bonus on them but... they seriously went too far with the level factoring into everything. Hell, even if you are too many levels below a monster, you still get penalized! What's with that? If anything you should get a BONUS. Messing with the item drops is also stupid. RO is not any other MMO where items you find at low levels are worth absolutely nothing to the high level players. Think about this: in WoW, when you are a low level blacksmith, you can find stuff like copper and smelt it into copper bars. Who wants copper bars? Only people your level! The high level players would only be looking for stuff like adamantium. In RO's case, everyone is going to want jellopies for stupid quests, everyone is going to want ray cards, everyone is going to need yoyo tails for making food, and everyone is going to need steel for forging. It doesn't matter what level the monster is who drops the item or what level you are when you need them.

Defense: I don't even understand what the initial problem with the old RO system was. I think it was, again, developers freaking out because they lack the problem solving abilities or imagination to come up with gears that are desirable but won't break the limit of say... making 95+ defense possible. Even then, one might ask why would it matter considering there are such things as MAGIC which takes a different type of defense into account, and a plethora of skills, items, and abilities which ignore or even do MORE damage based on defense. The thing is, now all we have with renewal is VIT and STR being able to add to your defense, and armors being able to add defense in the hundreds... but it still nearly boils down to the same thing. The defense cap is at 1000, and even when you get that, it's 66% - 90% reduction. Or something like that; I don't know. What I do know is it all just seems hella arbitrary to me.

Monsters: From what I hear, monsters are all pretty much the same. They might have some different skills (especially boss monsters) but the only real thing that makes each different is -- you guessed it -- their level. And for that matter, as you level up and stay around monsters about the same level as you... fighting each of them is also pretty much the same. They've all got about the same amount of HPs, same defense, same accuracy, dodge, and attack. It's not really the same if you remember how RO used to play... mimics and wanderers have really high flee and attack speed and were the bane of every caster. Turtles and golems have high defense, tough to kill, but could still take huge damage from OI.

Cast time: Ok, personally I thought it was crap to let people get instant cast too. So what did they do for renewal? They made it so there was a fixed cast time -- one that cannot be reduced at all by stats or level. I feel they did at least have the right intentions this time, but they did it in an awfully clunky, inelegant matter. I hate hard caps on things. Consider this: what if your cast time was: (Base Time)*.99^Dex*.995^Int

That means, each dex point shaves off 1% of the cast time, and each int point takes off .5%. BUT, the next point in dex does not additively stack to take off 2%. More like it takes 1% off of the remaining time that had 1% taken off of it. Or in other words, it reduces exponentially. Our exponents are .99 and .995. You keep increasing their power, and they will continue to approach zero... BUT, the rate they approach zero decreases, as the power increases, and they will never actually reach zero. With the formula I suggested, having 160 Dex and 180 Int would give you an 8% cast time. So essentially, having dex wouldn't necessarily be an "all or nothing" scenario. Each stat point takes off the same portion of cast time remaining as the last... this would just mean returns become somewhat diminishing. And it would be up to players to decide how much dex they want. The numbers do not have to necessarily come out like this. You can tweak the exponents around for some more desirable effects. Still, I just believe that using an exponential formula is always better than a formula that involves some value, x/cap.

I believe the same thing could even be done for status effects, such as stun resistance = 1 - .99^VIT. This is somewhat of a different matter though, although the situation is still probably not any better than it is on non-renewal servers...

Borrowing this guys reply for this one.

That, and I also don't like the new Matk formula. I don't understand why it needs a change, it doesn't and shouldn't need a change. I feel like all the effort i'm putting into my Bolting Scholar is going to become a gigantic disaster when this "new Matk formula" happens. Just please, remove it and use the current one.

Edit:

Thought that came to my mind. I don't understand why we even need to follow what kRO is doing. If jRO is making their own renewal, I don't see why iRO can't. This is probably the point of this thread. But I really want to point this out that we can modify what we need to.

Edited by Neutral12, 09 October 2010 - 07:27 PM.

[Kadelia]

Borrowing this guys reply for this one.

That, and I also don't like the new Matk formula. I don't understand why it needs a change, it doesn't and shouldn't need a change. I feel like all the effort i'm putting into my Bolting Scholar is going to become a gigantic disaster when this "new Matk formula" happens. Just please, remove it and use the current one.

More accurately, the 3rd job damaging skills make bolts pointless, so I am not sure why you are using them as the basis for judging the matk system.

[Neutral12]

More accurately, the 3rd job damaging skills make bolts pointless, so I am not sure why you are using them as the basis for judging the matk system.

Why? Well you just pointed it out. Bolts are going to be become horridly weak. Which is really bad for us Scholars which DEPEND on the bolts for attacks. I mean seriously, the Exp will be easier and all. But how will the Exp be "easier" if they are weakening my attacks?

[Viri]

Damage seemed similar in pvm if not better when I was play testing. Did you actually play at all?

[Kadelia]

Why? Well you just pointed it out. Bolts are going to be become horridly weak. Which is really bad for us Scholars which DEPEND on the bolts for attacks. I mean seriously, the Exp will be easier and all. But how will the Exp be "easier" if they are weakening my attacks?

I have a 97 double-bolt scholar on ymir. I am aware of how fun bolts were. However, just like a Dancer moves from Double Strafe to Arrow Vulcan and Tarrot Card as a Gypsy, she moves to Severe Storm and Lullaby as a Wanderer. Do you see the pattern? As a Sorcerer you will be moving onto much better offensive skills, rather than keeping with the bolts. It is lame to see your skills get obsoleted instead of improved upon, but this is the trend with "popular" MMOs like WoW and others, and Gravity followed suit. Its by design and there is little you or I can do about it. It's not really an indicator of whether or not the mATK system is good in renewal.

[Neutral12]

I'm not literally meaning when I am a Sorcerer. What I do mean is before it and obtaining 99/70. Since I won't have those stronger skills. Meaning if my bolts won't do as much as they once did. It's going to make it harder to obtain 99/70 to become a Sorcerer in the first place.

[Kadelia]

how is it going to be harder the monsters up to 99 trans all have < 10k hp. what.

[Hacks]

i can take most of the changes but theres a few problems i have with 3-1 and 3-2 jobs:

from what i've read the job level cap on them is 50, this is a HUGE penalty for the smith tree where nearly all forging skills take job level into the success formula.

again with the job level cap, sinx gets huge job bonus stats, 45 total iirc. GX seems to only get 29 total stats as job bonus, this is a loss of 16. i think these 3-x classes should atleast get the same job bonuses as the 2-x class they're based on, if not more, otherwise we'll be forced to put points in some stats over 100 we might not have otherwise to make up for the loss. it's not as big a deal as the above issue since we still have the option of actually putting more than 99 into one stat, but eh whatever.

i also see a potential problem with skills that take target level difference into account for determining success, i'm worried many of these skills may become useless as the difference in level situation becomes inverted from what it was pre-renewal.

[bluzin]

Man, one problem in renewal are that get 120 of any status is REALLY EXPENSIVE, and without the old bonus like each 10 STR, its a little useless.

Now looks like every class has the same hybrid build.

Gravity could put a bonus when you reach 120 on a status, to be really interresting to go deep in one or two of then, making diferents builds.

Something like this, just for example

120 STR = +500 weight limit bonus, +50 ATK for melee
120 VIT = +10% HP max, +20% heal from pots
120 AGI = +1 ASPD, +30 Flee
120 INT = +10 SP%, +50 MATK
120 DEX = +30 Hit, +50 ATK for ranged
120 LUK = +10 Crit, + 10 Flee, +10 Hit, +10 ATK, +10 MATK

Maybe til more bonus, cause to get 120 of a stats, you are losing lot of things. To get 120 AGI and 120 DEX you are losing HP, SP, status resist, weight limit, etc, and in the end, you dont get a really interresting bonus.

I belive that this gonna make do diferent build really more atractive. I just made a build for my Shadow Chaser, and I can use the same build in my Ranger and in my Maestro. Its really boring when you just use the same hybrid build for everything, and its better that every other build.

With this bonus, some like Master in AGI Status, will be lots of differents good builds to do.



That are others way, like Cards/equips, something like a Garment card that gives you +50 flee if you have 120 agi, or equips that only could be equiped with you have 120 of a especifc status.


ps: my english is crap, sorry