381 replies to this topic

[MrTyranitar]

Perhaps it won't but to kill the reading spellbook / release by adding a cooldown on the latter is rather stupid for not say something else... Release is one of the main skills used for woe warlocks and as I said before, is meant to be that way as you can see in any RO branch.

An entire guild shouldn't be capable to win WoEs by mass-spamming of Release via an illegit method that allowed endless Reading Spellbooks to go off. It's the only reason people are saying to nerf Release.

How much of a nerf would the following be? And would it be a feasible fix?
Remove the 1s fixed cast time on Reading Spellbook and put it as a 1s cooldown on Release? In the end, the time spent is the same (a second of waiting).

Edited by MrTyranitar, 14 February 2012 - 10:14 PM.

[cybernetic]

The only way to fix the exploit (properly) without changing the way a warlock plays currently would be to re-write reading spell book and change it into ~ n different separate skills for each release-able skill.

[iZola]

I BWinged out of my TI party 8 minutes early on purpose to avoid the usual five-minutes-early closing of the login and character servers in the hopes of TIing and returning for the last moments before maint, and, of course, with 4 minutes left on my manual (which I REALLY hope are still there after maint), my character hangs and I'm forced to close the client and attempt a relog, which, naturally, fails to connect because the character server is already down.

If my character hangs while attempting to map change and I can't attempt a relog to try to kick him off, does the character stay logged in and the manual timer still decrease? Am I SOL on this? >.>

It wasn't only login servers and such.
Maintenance started 5 mins too early, right when me and some friends were about to finish quests. ~.~
It would be enough time to upgrade a dragon helm using the 3 spares I had stored. Bleh.

Spoiler

I wonder what happened to punctuality.

[Azyrk]

"- Release exploit is "fixed' Re-reading the Book skill has an aftercast delay (should not matter at all for normal game play)"
I don't understand. What glitch? Reading spellbook, according to the balance patch notes, is not supposed to have an after cast delay anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like that after cast delay from prepatch is getting reimplemented? If so, that is completely stupid.

[Hulk]

If the Summoner will leave I'll quit. It's time to find a new official server for me.

seriously.. like they would care?

[Weskeer]

What about Amatsu quest? it still going on? Ppl still need to turn in my quest for that, dont take out the NPC at least.

Edited by Weskeer, 14 February 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[Gantrithor]

Is your time 5 minutes slow?

Maint started on time for me, and I haven't heard of 5 minute time zone shifts before.

[iZola]

Well, right when me and some friends changed map, we all got DC at the same time.

[Wizard]

An entire guild shouldn't be capable to win WoEs by mass-spamming of Release via an illegit method that allowed endless Reading Spellbooks to go off. It's the only reason people are saying to nerf Release.

How much of a nerf would the following be? And would it be a feasible fix?
Remove the 1s fixed cast time on Reading Spellbook and put it as a 1s cooldown on Release? In the end, the time spent is the same (a second of waiting).

Wrong... What u are doing here is using the bug thing as excuse to shut completely an entire class...

Warlocks suffer from insane fixed and variable cast time... Therefore our only and best bet is on released spells... We are able to spam stored spells when the conditions are right but having to give up mystical amplification in exchange...

You want to put a cooldown on release? Why? Release is not meant to have a cooldow... Is working fine as it is and u can see that clearly in all ragnarok branches around the globe... Being able to spam skills on strings has always been our best asset and it would ridiculously stupid to take that waY from us... In other words... For someone using a cheat you want to punish the entire class??

Reading and releasing are 2 separated skills and have different purposes... Adding a cooldown on reading spellbook is kinda like pre balance patch... But having that cooldown on release is a different history...

You said having a guild winning with release spells... Well that's how it works... Take away the bug and the result would be the same regardless.... Because that hability to spam is what make the class useful damage wise...

[candyZ]

LOL all this release kinda thing is like kids telling their mother because they got kicked in the butt...pathetic

[OccultPriest]

For those that deleted a few days ago (homunculus) if it was due to its stats being underwhelming that is what this would require you to do as well.

Just do the quest, delete this one, and level it up again. It will get loyaled with the rest of em on the 21st that way. If we rollback your old Homun it won't be made loyal, and it will still have whatever its old stats were.

Just to clarify more, this is you deleting your homun and releveling it. We will just make the loyalty raising much faster.

im confused as to what this npc even does and what is the benefit of this npc bc people are complaining that they deleted their homoc

[MrTyranitar]

Well, for starters, it's not a bug, it's a hack.

A cooldown on Spellbook is pointless because these hackers aren't ever casting it more than once yet they can endlessly release the same Comets like a hundred times per second.

Tell me, without hacks, that can still happen? You know, having one Warlock cast Comet like a hundred times per second? I deleted my post to avoid someone replying because I didn't really care to start a discussion about this. However, you acting like that with or without hacks, the result is the same, warranted me to reply again.

The hack can't be stopped because of how it's done. People who were in the WoE where said guild was using it know how it's done and said guild admits to doing it too.

Edited by MrTyranitar, 14 February 2012 - 10:27 PM.

[Wizard]

LOL all this release kinda thing is like kids telling their mother because they got kicked in the butt...pathetic

I said it before... the result would've be the same... Having 4 warlocks releasing comet with hibrams can kill an entire guild with just the 2nd or 3rd comet... Now we are talking about 4 releasing 8 comet at once... That's somehing u wouldn't be able to survive unless u got GTB...

So you wanna change the skill because u are not able to survive that? Forget the bug, u won't be able to pass thru that shower even if u have 200k HP

[OccultPriest]

Well, for starters, it's not a bug, it's a hack.

A cooldown on Spellbook is pointless because these hackers aren't ever casting it more than once yet they can endlessly release the same Comets like a hundred times per second.

Tell me, without hacks, that can still happen? You know, having one Warlock cast Comet like a hundred times per second? I deleted my post to avoid someone replying because I didn't really care to start a discussion about this. However, you acting like that with or without hacks, the result is the same, warranted me to reply again.

The hack can't be stopped because of how it's done. People who were in the WoE where said guild was using it know how it's done and said guild admits to doing it too.

leave it to the guy to complain about nothing

[Helios0]

Well, for starters, it's not a bug, it's a hack.

A cooldown on Spellbook is pointless because these hackers aren't ever casting it more than once yet they can endlessly release the same Comets like a hundred times per second.

Tell me, without hacks, that can still happen? You know, having one Warlock cast Comet like a hundred times per second? I deleted my post to avoid someone replying because I didn't really care to start a discussion about this. However, you acting like that with or without hacks, the result is the same, warranted me to reply again.

The hack can't be stopped because of how it's done. People who were in the WoE where said guild was using it know how it's done and said guild admits to doing it too.

what exactly is this release exploit? can someone elaborate? what is being done thats causing the ruckus ?

and if your way of supposedly fixing it is to add a aftercast to reading spellbook: Please don't its already hard enough to store mid TI while the rest of your grp is moving.. to have to read, click, move , read, click, move, read, click, move... etc.. would really suck as opposed to the current... Read, Read+click, Read+click, click, Move

Edited by Helios0, 14 February 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[cybernetic]

Well, for starters, it's not a bug, it's a hack.

A cooldown on Spellbook is pointless because these hackers aren't ever casting it more than once yet they can endlessly release the same Comets like a hundred times per second.

Tell me, without hacks, that can still happen? You know, having one Warlock cast Comet like a hundred times per second? I deleted my post to avoid someone replying because I didn't really care to start a discussion about this. However, you acting like that with or without hacks, the result is the same, warranted me to reply again.

The hack can't be stopped because of how it's done. People who were in the WoE where said guild was using it know how it's done and said guild admits to doing it too.

It's still limited to how fast you can cast a spell/second. (Which means if you have max aspd, usually 3~5 a second).

Putting a cool-down on release would, in essence, "limit" how badly the wpe'ers could release, but unfortunately that still harms every other legit warlock on all of iRO's servers.

[MrTyranitar]

An aftercast delay for Reading Spellbook would do nothing. Because it's only needed to cast once (I'm not even sure if once is needed) for the exploiters to start it up.

[Wizard]

Well, for starters, it's not a bug, it's a hack.

A cooldown on Spellbook is pointless because these hackers aren't ever casting it more than once yet they can endlessly release the same Comets like a hundred times per second.

Tell me, without hacks, that can still happen? You know, having one Warlock cast Comet like a hundred times per second? I deleted my post to avoid someone replying because I didn't really care to start a discussion about this. However, you acting like that with or without hacks, the result is the same, warranted me to reply again.

The hack can't be stopped because of how it's done. People who were in the WoE where said guild was using it know how it's done and said guild admits to doing it too.

As I said... So for just 1 person using the hack, u wanna kill an entire class? Cooldown May be good in some eyes but not for someone who actually play warlock...

I said it again... For just 1 you can't kill the whole skill for everyone else... That's beyond stupid if I might say so... The problem itself seems to lie on reading the book not the released spell...

How to fix it? Dunno since I don't know the details of it works... But since GMs seems to know it already, perhaps they figure something out beside needing the skill...

Again... If 3 warlock release comet on u... U will be respawing regardless... U must now that already if u were fighting us when I was by myself...

[Azyrk]

So basically the glitch is literally reading a spell once and being able to spam it with release without having to reread?
I don't get how putting a CD on reading spell book fixes that issue, and as Haseo said, putting a CD on release has negative consequences on the class =S

[Gantrithor]

Oh yeah, they shut down the char server or something 10 minutes early, it's like standard procedure, changing between certain maps would disconnect you then.

[Tenmuki]

I BWinged out of my TI party 8 minutes early on purpose to avoid the usual five-minutes-early closing of the login and character servers in the hopes of TIing and returning for the last moments before maint, and, of course, with 4 minutes left on my manual (which I REALLY hope are still there after maint), my character hangs and I'm forced to close the client and attempt a relog, which, naturally, fails to connect because the character server is already down.

If my character hangs while attempting to map change and I can't attempt a relog to try to kick him off, does the character stay logged in and the manual timer still decrease? Am I SOL on this? >.>

i believe you were in my party o.o Kuronosuke? or something? i know i spelled it wrong :V

[Anchors]

Is your time 5 minutes slow?

Maint started on time for me, and I haven't heard of 5 minute time zone shifts before.

The map server goes down at the right time or a few minutes later, typically. However, changing map zones or logging in require access to the character and login+character servers respectively (for the former, when people are kafra warping around, or moving through eden to warp to Pront or elsewhere, you'll see via Friends lists or Guild notices that X character has disconnected, connected, repeat). Early character server shutdowns just screw over the people who need to change zones in the last (apparently) 8+ minutes before maint.

---

As for Release... It sounds like part of the problem is that you can cast other spells (including more Reading Spellbook) while the Reading Spellbook prompt is up. (e.g. you can cast Read Spellbook, target a monster or enemy with CR while the prompt is open, re-cast Read Spellbook, choose a spell while 2nd RS is casting, etc etc.) Can't we just disable that feature, in the same way it's disabled for Teleport?

Also, how are endless RSs AND Releases going off? During RS's cast time, you can't cast Release... Sure, you can cast it between RSs, but there are still delays during the cast time, no?

In any case, crippling a class for PVM because of some WoE issue is a little one-sided. Make Released spells in WoE deal half damage or something. Just don't cripple my pure PVM warlock because of some stupid WoE problem.

<edit>@Tenmuki, yep, Kounosuke is me~ That's why I couldn't get back, apparently... Sorry for the sudden disappearence Q_Q
<edit2>(clarification)

Edited by Anchors, 14 February 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[OccultPriest]

As I said... So for just 1 person using the hack, u wanna kill an entire class? Cooldown May be good in some eyes but not for someone who actually play warlock...

I said it again... For just 1 you can't kill the whole skill for everyone else... That's beyond stupid if I might say so... The problem itself seems to lie on reading the book not the released spell...

How to fix it? Dunno since I don't know the details of it works... But since GMs seems to know it already, perhaps they figure something out beside needing the skill...

Again... If 3 warlock release comet on u... U will be respawing regardless... U must now that already if u were fighting us when I was by myself...

your just rediculus
im not a warlock never had one ever. If its not baroque dnt fix it

[Wizard]

It's still limited to how fast you can cast a spell/second. (Which means if you have max aspd, usually 3~5 a second).

Putting a cool-down on release would, in essence, "limit" how badly the wpe'ers could release, but unfortunately that still harms every other legit warlock on all of iRO's servers.

Exactly my point... To punish 1 warlock u will be punishing the entire class... Not just 1 or 2... But everyone... Remember the gfist cooldown? Ok this is worst cuz the change is not meant to be...

[renouille]

Is this similar to the teleport hack that all the bots used to do? Because if it is, I'd imagine it would be just as easy to fix.