104 replies to this topic

[TheSquishy]

I'm estimating that current RO2 can't handle more than 20-30 entities on a screen (non-player included) before
the processing goes to crap.

[ultra39]

Fun Fact: WoW is not graphics intensive. If you need proof, just look at AV, a 40v40 bg where, quite often actually, you'd get 30+ people from each side fighting each other at the same time at any of the major choke points (though by the time I stopped playing WoW, everyone turned that bg into a boss rush instead of actually pvping each other). If around 60 players all on the same screen doesn't sound too impressive, remember that all these people are using their skills all at the same time as well. Add in the fact that I didn't have any kind of lag while playing on an older comp with only an integrated graphics card, and you can get a rough idea of how they could implement large scale WoE on a 3d engine. WoW itself is a pretty old game now, and despite a few graphical upgrades, want to try to keep the system requirements on the lower end of the scale (it's that whole accessibility thing again).

Contrast this with Aion and their fortress sieges. Massive lag with the same numbers as the WoW example, and a crippling inability to even generate most of the PCs on screen. Keep in mind that this was also on a good comp with a high end graphics card. Aion was so graphics intensive, I couldn't even try out the game properly until I got a graphics card myself. From my personal experience playing Aion as well, the game just had NOTHING going for it other than pretty graphics. The gameplay felt stiff and rigid, and the direction in the game was poor. Dungeons felt bland and uninspiring, etc.

For a more recent example of how large scale pvp can fail badly, look at SWTOR. I have yet to try out the game myself, but both my brothers play it and I have seen what happens if you try to get a battle going that involves only around 40 people on the same screen. There will be lag. Massive lag and lots of it. Lag so bad, it causes people to get d/ced from the game and causes everything else to turn all choppy.

The main issue I see is that the latter two examples have chosen to go with heavy graphics requirements. You might get a better looking game, but it doesn't necessarily mean it plays better either. I haven't seen much of RO2 other than a few gameplay videos, but if it's built similarly like WoW, then having large scale WoEs shouldn't be an issue. Now if you want to talk about having the servers to make it work, that's a different and more important issue I think. RO2 being a product of Gravity though, I have very very low expectations for the game and can foresee it bombing if/when they release an iRO version of it.

As a side note, I prefer movement/combat in 3d games, as it adds more/new dimensions to combat rather than point & click spamming. Running circles around the target while attacking them? If the player is bad, you'll see lots of keyboard turning. Got ganked by non-stealth classes while mining a node? Maybe you should've swung your camera around to see if someone was running up to you. Getting hit up by ranged attacks? Duck for cover and LoS your attacker, but don't LoS your healer if you got one. Need to hit up some targets from a safe distance? Stand on a ridge that the enemy can't climb without going all the way around. etc. etc.

[theotheruo]

I don't ever see how they can do large scale WoE on a 3D graphics engine where you'd see 50+ players in one room at a time without lag or some such.

The nice thing about RO is that it has little system requirements to play. A 3D engine would probably require a newer computer with better graphics cards if large populations were to react with each other. Did they ever try a stress test on RO2 to see what would happen to certain users if over 100 people were to be in the same area?

Nowadays High End Computers aren't so Pricefull check newegg.ca for canadians customers a PC i would have paid 5000 in a store here i paid 2000 for it.
Then again if people can't afford more than 400$ on a PC might as well go buy a PS3 and mod it?

[Randomititiy]

Nowadays High End Computers aren't so Pricefull check newegg.ca for canadians customers a PC i would have paid 5000 in a store here i paid 2000 for it.
Then again if people can't afford more than 400$ on a PC might as well go buy a PS3 and mod it?

Could just buy single parts for the pc they already have

[theotheruo]

Could just buy single parts for the pc they already have

Yeah depend if the board is not old and support recent CPU but i gotta say for Gaming its really Video Card related when i went from core DUO 3.2Ghz to I7 990x even thought i did see the changes in the CPU usage i didn't feel it. instead of 33% for most games was 7%
But for that i had to buy a brand new comp because the old board was a ASUS p5n-t deluxe and instead of taking harddrives away from it i only took my video card GTX 580 and replaced it with a GTX 295 on the duo so i didn't feel much changes on videos games until i add more video cards and screens.

[Randomititiy]

Yeah depend if the board is not old and support recent CPU but i gotta say for Gaming its really Video Card related when i went from core DUO 3.2Ghz to I7 990x even thought i did see the changes in the CPU usage i didn't feel it. instead of 33% for most games was 7%
But for that i had to buy a brand new comp because the old board was a ASUS p5n-t deluxe and instead of taking harddrives away from it i only took my video card GTX 580 and replaced it with a GTX 295 on the duo so i didn't feel much changes on videos games until i add more video cards and screens.

True tried doing it to my parents old desktop to find out that it is so old I don't know the model nor the processor so we both know how this ends with me going to the store to find a new desktop.

My current desktop was originally a class project which ended up well going a little over the top with, still nice computer enjoy the i7 in it.

I really haven't felt much change adding screens myself to be honest then again I only have 2 so who knows.

[theotheruo]

True tried doing it to my parents old desktop to find out that it is so old I don't know the model nor the processor so we both know how this ends with me going to the store to find a new desktop.

My current desktop was originally a class project which ended up well going a little over the top with, still nice computer enjoy the i7 in it.

I really haven't felt much change adding screens myself to be honest then again I only have 2 so who knows.

Adding screens and using Matrox Head 2go so basically 6 screens and 3x2 making a resolution of 1980x 1080 on each is good for production but for gaming was such a pain in the ass because Head 2 go allow stretching over 6 screens which means a game get like 5940x 2160 and end up crashing in most games anyway.
More screens more RAM been use Nvidia drivers and Nvidia Cards even thought they have they HUGE amount of GDDR5 Ram will take half of its total in Computer Ram allocated.
When you use more screens it tend to take more so you need a good supply of ram
FPS lower a lots *higher resolution* and so on so you do notice a change when using more screens and Tri-sli gains aren't worth it you lose most performance on 3rd card since most board are x16 x16 x8 x8 *quad sli*
But even with many screens its Overkill for games such as RO
could run 20 times the game without lagging

*Matrox allow more screens than 3 per Cards of course some cards allow for even more than that *Ati ones and Quadro*

Edited by theotheruo, 19 March 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[GuardianTK]

My personal question is:

What will happen to iRO's GM's if iRO2 came here to the US? Would they A) Lose their jobs if iRO1 can't maintain enough income due to players shifting/quitting from RO1 to go to RO2? or B ) Be stretched out even more thin by having to mod every game US Gravity has a license to, including iRO2?

Edited by GuardianTK, 19 March 2012 - 07:31 AM.

[Randomititiy]

Adding screens and using Matrox Head 2go so basically 6 screens and 3x2 making a resolution of 1980x 1080 on each is good for production but for gaming was such a pain in the ass because Head 2 go allow stretching over 6 screens which means a game get like 5940x 2160 and end up crashing in most games anyway.
More screens more RAM been use Nvidia drivers and Nvidia Cards even thought they have they HUGE amount of GDDR5 Ram will take half of its total in Computer Ram allocated.
When you use more screens it tend to take more so you need a good supply of ram
FPS lower a lots *higher resolution* and so on so you do notice a change when using more screens and Tri-sli gains aren't worth it you lose most performance on 3rd card since most board are x16 x16 x8 x8 *quad sli*
But even with many screens its Overkill for games such as RO
could run 20 times the game without lagging

*Matrox allow more screens than 3 per Cards of course some cards allow for even more than that *Ati ones and Quadro*

Guess I need more Ram before I think of adding another screen. Could always have 6 accounts have 1 account on ea screen ;D. A

Jokes and what not aside I guess I would need to rebuild some of my computer before I try to more then 3 screens even though I really don't have a use for having more, so I probably won't do it.

My personal question is:

What will happen to iRO's GM's if iRO2 came here to the US? Would they A) Lose their jobs if iRO1 can't maintain enough income due to players shifting/quitting from RO1 to go to RO2? or B ) Be stretched out even more thin by having to mod every game US Gravity has a license to, including iRO2?

Probably stretched thinner

[theotheruo]

Well Ram is cheap on newegg they were a Hotdeal when i bought my comp 24GB ram for 217$ Cad

[ultra39]

My personal question is:

What will happen to iRO's GM's if iRO2 came here to the US? Would they A) Lose their jobs if iRO1 can't maintain enough income due to players shifting/quitting from RO1 to go to RO2? or B ) Be stretched out even more thin by having to mod every game US Gravity has a license to, including iRO2?

I'm thinking it all depends on what sort of model RO2 will run on:
- Pay to Play (subscription)
- Pay to Play (one time payment)
- Free to Play

I think everyone here agrees that having it be a subscription based game will be a quick death sentence. If it requires a one time payment like GW, it'll need to make an amazing first impression, then continue to find ways of drawing in new players. If it's free to play, the game will still need to draw attention, but then they'll have to set up the kafra shop again for income.

If RO2 somehow manages to be a success, RO1 could continue to run as normal I would think. If RO1 starts to go under, the GMs and CMs would probably just get shifted to RO2 or one of their other games. If RO2 goes under, RO1 would continue to operate as normal.

[CeruleanGamer]

My personal question is:

What will happen to iRO's GM's if iRO2 came here to the US? Would they A) Lose their jobs if iRO1 can't maintain enough income due to players shifting/quitting from RO1 to go to RO2? or B ) Be stretched out even more thin by having to mod every game US Gravity has a license to, including iRO2?

No way in hell RO1 is gonna have fewer players than RO2. In fact, I'd still imagine it to have 3-4x more players than what RO2 can get.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

Honestly, the two games are different enough that they're basically going to just be alternatives. I doubt that RO2 will ever 'succeed' RO1 but there's still a possibility that it may become decently popular in it's own right.

Or it could go the way of Dragon Saga and be a lovely game with a very small and anemic player base

[theotheruo]

Honestly, the two games are different enough that they're basically going to just be alternatives. I doubt that RO2 will ever 'succeed' RO1 but there's still a possibility that it may become decently popular in it's own right.

Or it could go the way of Dragon Saga and be a lovely game with a very small and anemic player base

IRO itself is low on userbase but if you combine every Private Servers + Legit servers users into one it would be a Huge Game.

[Niji]

By choosing alchemist as your profession job, you can still have access to Acid Terror (which may be this game's version of the Acid Bomb)

It's not that they've removed those classes, it's just that they've allowed you to incorporate them into other classes. So, I could be a swordsman AND a blacksmith without having to make an alt account.

also, there's no need for merchant vend slaves anymore because every player can vend while they're logged out.

so they turned it into PW with -_-ty graphics.

[KataiKou]

I'm not sure if RO would feel too much impact by RO2. To be honest, RO2 was boring as hell >_>

[Niji]

I'm not sure if RO would feel too much impact by RO2. To be honest, RO2 was boring as hell >_>

really i have to say this......aaahahahahahahaha those idiots put the money into the wrong game hahahahahaha FAIL.

i love my iRO

[Heimdallr]

I can say that RO2 has a good foundation for expansion, it has all the expected features for MMOs, its graphics are competitive in the market (some efficiency things need added for performance). WoW clone is basically any game with 3d characters and quests.. which is every game that comes out essentially, so I'm not going to really comment on that other than to say that WoW graphics are pretty low polygon compared to tons of other MMOs today which is one good reason for its non-performance hit.

As for us here, we do have RO2 in our future sight, it isn't soon enough to really say more than that. For the staff here, we will do what always happens expand the team and move forward. The Customer Service team (GMs) aren't tied to 1 title, so they are not impacted, realistically our little live team here of me, Oda and Holden could be impacted but I doubt it, I think RO1 has quite a long future yet and the investment of manpower (3 people) is more than justified for it. But thank you for your concern on our welfare.

I do look forward to RO2 as there is a lot of people out there that judge first on how similar to "wow" or its graphics a game is, this has a chance to bring them in where RO1 cannot. I wouldn't expect our core RO1 community to jump ship because we have a game with a 2 behind it.

[Maka]

I can say that RO2 has a good foundation for expansion, it has all the expected features for MMOs, its graphics are competitive in the market (some efficiency things need added for performance). WoW clone is basically any game with 3d characters and quests.. which is every game that comes out essentially, so I'm not going to really comment on that other than to say that WoW graphics are pretty low polygon compared to tons of other MMOs today which is one good reason for its non-performance hit.

As for us here, we do have RO2 in our future sight, it isn't soon enough to really say more than that. For the staff here, we will do what always happens expand the team and move forward. The Customer Service team (GMs) aren't tied to 1 title, so they are not impacted, realistically our little live team here of me, Oda and Holden could be impacted but I doubt it, I think RO1 has quite a long future yet and the investment of manpower (3 people) is more than justified for it. But thank you for your concern on our welfare.

I do look forward to RO2 as there is a lot of people out there that judge first on how similar to "wow" or its graphics a game is, this has a chance to bring them in where RO1 cannot. I wouldn't expect our core RO1 community to jump ship because we have a game with a 2 behind it.

I think it's going to bring in much broader audience. It may not appeal to all the RO1 fans, but I see it having a more mainstream appeal. I think this was the goal in designing it the way they did. I look forward to seeing how the core is expanded upon. We have still yet to see what this new version of WoE will be like.

[ultra39]

I can say that RO2 has a good foundation for expansion, it has all the expected features for MMOs, its graphics are competitive in the market (some efficiency things need added for performance). WoW clone is basically any game with 3d characters and quests.. which is every game that comes out essentially, so I'm not going to really comment on that other than to say that WoW graphics are pretty low polygon compared to tons of other MMOs today which is one good reason for its non-performance hit.

"WoW clone" is also just a blanket term that many people like to throw out everywhere. I also find it very funny when people like to call something a WoW clone when they've never played either WoW or the game they're trying to criticize. Not accusing anyone in here of doing that, but just a little something I like to point out, and something that I actually come across far too often (making a level10 warrior on WoW does not make you an expert on the game). WoW is still currently the most successful mmo, so it's obvious that many are going to try to emulate its success. While I still have low expectations for RO2, mainly due to kRO/Gravity, I'll reserve any further judgement until I get a chance to try it out for myself.

I think it's going to bring in much broader audience. It may not appeal to all the RO1 fans, but I see it having a more mainstream appeal. I think this was the goal in designing it the way they did. I look forward to seeing how the core is expanded upon. We have still yet to see what this new version of WoE will be like.

This is the only way I see RO2 having any success. In fact, I still believe one of the things holding RO1 back from getting a steady stream of newcomers is it still carries the stigma of being a grindfest game. Between all the kill count quests (grinding of a different sort), item farming, sparse and unengaging quests, etc., it definitely still has the feel of one. Of course, there's also the many idiots around that seem to believe a game can only be relevant if its got cutting edge graphics.

[LuxiLux]

My personal question is:

What will happen to iRO's GM's if iRO2 came here to the US? Would they A) Lose their jobs if iRO1 can't maintain enough income due to players shifting/quitting from RO1 to go to RO2? or B ) Be stretched out even more thin by having to mod every game US Gravity has a license to, including iRO2?

The obvious answer is that RO will shutdown in support for RO2, just like every game with a sequel. Warpportal will most likely be the one handling the license for RO2, which is why GMs will probably just focus on 2 when the original dies.

[Maka]

The obvious answer is that RO will shutdown in support for RO2, just like every game with a sequel. Warpportal will most likely be the one handling the license for RO2, which is why GMs will probably just focus on 2 when the original dies.

They are two different games, and there are no plans to shutdown RO1. It's still strong title in Korea/Japan.

[LuxiLux]

They are two different games, and there are no plans to shutdown RO1. It's still strong title in Korea/Japan.

And only in those two countries, and probably pRO. Renewal was supposed to give developers more leeway with updates, but with poor implementation(not changing item effects), RO is starting to hit it's limits again. Just by looking at the new Seige gear and kafra items, people are already starting to hit 80-90% demi-human reduction.

kRO is basically heading to it's pre-renewal status, where they'll admit that they've hit a development block and need to "renew" RO again. Lol.

They might be two different games, but when you look at other games, all their sequels have succeeded the original. FF series, SW, Lineage; Thinking RO will not shutdown due to lack of developer support after RO2 is released(if it ever does) is wishful thinking.

WP might not have plans to shutdown RO1, but kRO is certainly giving off hints that they are.

Edited by LuxiLux, 19 March 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Lucentos]

IMHO RO 1 is heading to its end in the storyline. Episode 15 and 16 is quite probably final episodes of RO1.

[Pandapoop]

The folks saying they aren't going to play RO2 is like folks saying IM GONNA QUIT. We all know you're not gonna quit... we all know you're gonna try RO2..