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Discuss Lack of Balance Patch Feedback


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#26 simca437

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:23 PM

Simca I think the whole point of people saying Sura is OP is their package is far too good compared to other classes. Both for WoE and PvM.

They are the best PvM tanks, it requires 0 gear (You can't tank most high end stuff without a Sura tank, what's the point of RG which is supposed to be the tank class?).
They have a fairly high HP mod for the damage/survivability/mobility they have
They have support abilities, while not being very useful in WoE it still comes out handy.
They have ground targeted mobility that has a HUGE range
They have a disable
They have very high damage

If you compare that to other classes, they can't be all that at the same time.
I'm not saying they are game breaking and incredibly OP, but if you compare the package with other classes it's so uneven.
It's like giving shadow chasers Snap and a skill as strong as GoH. That's would be just wrong.

well,i strangely agree with u excpt about the buffs n hp(hp isnt that high)
but listen,sura's r money holes,not everyone can afford to run a sura in woe effectively
without high tier equips they r pretty useless
u need to pour a lot of ur money in buying blue pots n then spam them like nothing
without 10+ kvm goh is crappy , believe me
we can easily get one shot by any class
we can b easily killed if u folo some strategies(ofc i wont tell u what they r,find it urself)

sura's got huge drawback's overcoming which really worth getting op skills!
try to put ur feet in the shoes of a sura(though they just stay bare feet,itz jst a proverb)then u wil understand whether sura's worth it or not!!

Simca I think the whole point of people saying Sura is OP is their package is far too good compared to other classes. Both for WoE and PvM.

They are the best PvM tanks, it requires 0 gear (You can't tank most high end stuff without a Sura tank, what's the point of RG which is supposed to be the tank class?).
They have a fairly high HP mod for the damage/survivability/mobility they have
They have support abilities, while not being very useful in WoE it still comes out handy.
They have ground targeted mobility that has a HUGE range
They have a disable
They have very high damage

If you compare that to other classes, they can't be all that at the same time.
I'm not saying they are game breaking and incredibly OP, but if you compare the package with other classes it's so uneven.
It's like giving shadow chasers Snap and a skill as strong as GoH. That's would be just wrong.

well,i strangely agree with u excpt about the buffs n hp(hp isnt that high)
but listen,sura's r money holes,not everyone can afford to run a sura in woe effectively
without high tier equips they r pretty useless
u need to pour a lot of ur money in buying blue pots n then spam them like nothing
without 10+ kvm goh is crappy , believe me
we can easily get one shot by any class
we can b easily killed if u folo some strategies(ofc i wont tell u what they r,find it urself)

sura's got huge drawback's overcoming which really worth getting op skills!
try to put ur feet in the shoes of a sura(though they just stay bare feet,itz jst a proverb)then u wil understand whether sura's worth it or not!!

Edited by simca437, 24 March 2012 - 10:23 PM.

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#27 Andini

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:25 PM

Well in this instance I can only refer to a Sura using a Golden Thief Bug Card since they cannot be dispelled or broken out of mental strength with this combo, otherwise a decent sura will use this to their advantage when their is not a sage class in sight since dispel is the only skill I can think of to remove Mental Strength status. If you could name any other skills that would break a Sura out of Mental Strength status please clarify them for me.


masq weakness

pile bunker

on side note, wtf kind of threat is a sura in mental strength, and suras go on it to preserve +20s to bwing? you sure we playing the same game?

Edited by Andini, 24 March 2012 - 10:28 PM.

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#28 Tenshi143

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:29 PM

Nerf Sura please.


please do... u.u
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#29 frankSG07

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:19 PM

is sura really the main reason why its imbalance? i dont think so
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#30 Riakuta

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:21 PM

is sura really the main reason why its imbalance? i dont think so


It may not be, but it is the most noticeable.
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#31 kasshin

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:21 PM

This thread somehow got hijacked by the "nerf sura" topic again. o__o

There are a lot of counters to suras... maybe people can recruit more of those into thier guilds and incorporate it into their strategies?

Or just make more suras of your own for woe? >__>
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#32 Ramen

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:30 PM

Enough about frickin Suras. Go make you're own thread if you want to argue back and forth. That is not the goal or purpose of this thread, so cut it out.


I also would like to know what, if anything has been said or done about the balance patch requests, especially for performers. I don't have one, but I don't think it's right for them to just get tossed in the gutter to rot like they have. D:

Edited by Ramen, 24 March 2012 - 11:31 PM.

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#33 Senkasa

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 12:03 AM

Enough about frickin Suras. Go make you're own thread if you want to argue back and forth. That is not the goal or purpose of this thread, so cut it out.


I also would like to know what, if anything has been said or done about the balance patch requests, especially for performers. I don't have one, but I don't think it's right for them to just get tossed in the gutter to rot like they have. D:


^This. Can we actually get some acknowledgement that they DO take feedback from us even? Is there even another "Balance Patch" Planned? Will anything be really fixed? Will Mechanics be able to use non-mado related skills like Ygg Leaves and Wedding skills without needing to take off the madogear? Will coluseo heal be fixed with mado mechanics in parties? Why do I have so many questions? Its small issues like THESE we need to start with before we can move onto actually buffing/nerfing classes. "If it ain't broke, Don't Fix it" So let's fix what's ACTUALLY broken please <__<
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#34 Inubashiri

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 12:27 AM

Anytime the word balance appears on this forum immediately it invokes class warfare, specifically Suras. I'm sure there is more to discuss than just Sura class nuking so as the topic says "Discuss Lack of Balance Patch" not "Discuss Nerfing Sura". If you would like to discuss Sura Balancing specifically, go here.

Edited by Inubashiri, 25 March 2012 - 12:28 AM.

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#35 asayuu

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 01:15 AM

[Still writing, accidental post]

About Sura:

It seems fist got a unecessary nerf, as it lowered the class' effectiveness only on MVP. Fist had a reasonable cast time, being able to hide between or try to interrupt. But omg, Gate of Hell casts too fast, and the damage comes easier. A sura with gate of hell can oneshot all the low HP tier classes and even mid-tier classes [performer, mechanic, even other suras!]. But this is due to the bug on the HP part of the skill [No Ghostring = No damage reduction]. Fix it and suras are fixed... in part!

Temporary, the DPS of the skill could be decreased by adding a 1s fixed cast time and a 1s cooldown.

The other problem is the Snap + CC + GoH as this combo is deadly. Fist can't be used 2s after Snap. GoH and CC can. This only the devs can help on.

Back to real thread:

Hahahaha... My wanderer NEEDS a buff. In both PVM and PVP/WOE. I don't ask to have the same DPS as a RK/RG/Sura... But a improvement on the support skills, both solo and chorus. Pre-balance deep sleep could be said overpowered, but now they have a way to be healed. The problem in the skill is: "Int affects both success rate and duration in a HUGE amount, which should not be". It's possible to get immunity to deep sleep via int, what should NOT be possible. This is CLEARLY a bug and should be fixed too.

Maestros got rebuffed by giving back Frost Joke's freeze rate. But Dazzler deals Stun. And everyone is immune to it. Every. One. What is the point on having a pointless skill? Oh wait, this can be said to the half of the performer skills. A lot of points you will never use! Maybe Dazzler could be changed to a 29x29 AOE Windmill, and at least make people have the hard work of pressing insert or /sit.

Bringing the old Deep Sleep could help in part. But I understand if people complains it's overpowered.

Edited by asayuu, 25 March 2012 - 01:32 AM.

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#36 simca437

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 01:16 AM

sura's r just fine,u just needchow to defeat them....

a sura can never kill a rg,he/she wil end up killing him/herself due to insane reflect
a gx with 193 aspd can easily hitlock a sura,he cant even snap out of it n spamming pots will b futile
a db knight is a vit class with all vit gears,landing to 60k+ hp...a sura cant one shot him with goh.....can thus dying as a result
a ranger can easily 2 shot a sura in woe with their insanely op arrow storm
a shadow chaser can irritate a sura so much that he may quit playing sura the next day
a genetic can effectively use mandagora bowling to tottally nerf sura's
a mechanic can probablh two a sura

u guys stop complaining n try to learn playing ur class!!
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#37 Xellie

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 01:52 AM

sura's r just fine,u just needchow to defeat them....

a sura can never kill a rg,he/she wil end up killing him/herself due to insane reflect (double KO)
a gx with 193 aspd can easily hitlock a sura,he cant even snap out of it n spamming pots will b futile (CC or root)
a db knight is a vit class with all vit gears,landing to 60k+ hp...a sura cant one shot him with goh.....can thus dying as a result (he can use gfist or lets pretend the RK can actually pot 20k uin the time it takes to do goh.. nope)
a ranger can easily 2 shot a sura in woe with their insanely op arrow storm (not if they pot)
a shadow chaser can irritate a sura so much that he may quit playing sura the next day (almost true, but they can just be CCed)
a genetic can effectively use mandagora bowling to tottally nerf sura's (doesn't it have a big fail rate now?)
a mechanic can probablh two a sura (??????)

u guys stop complaining n try to learn playing ur class!!


l2p straight back at you.

Anyway, the thing that gets me about renewal balance is the inconsistancies in reductions on skills. Knowing that balance fixes like that have been on kRO for a long time, why do we have to wait over a year before the game gets playable?
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#38 Aeroku

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:15 AM

its k, many people have already quitted waiting. (where gm wouldn't care anyway since what matters is the new player and the $$$).
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#39 nixophilic88

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:37 AM

sura's r just fine,u just needchow to defeat them....

a sura can never kill a rg,he/she wil end up killing him/herself due to insane reflect
a gx with 193 aspd can easily hitlock a sura,he cant even snap out of it n spamming pots will b futile
a db knight is a vit class with all vit gears,landing to 60k+ hp...a sura cant one shot him with goh.....can thus dying as a result
a ranger can easily 2 shot a sura in woe with their insanely op arrow storm
a shadow chaser can irritate a sura so much that he may quit playing sura the next day
a genetic can effectively use mandagora bowling to tottally nerf sura's
a mechanic can probablh two a sura

u guys stop complaining n try to learn playing ur class!!

ever played a ranger before?? It is absolutely OP in pvm, but in woe they cant kill -_-. And if u've died to a ranger in woe, ur the -_-tiest sura ever.
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#40 simca437

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:51 AM

ever played a ranger before?? It is absolutely OP in pvm, but in woe they cant kill -_-. And if u've died to a ranger in woe, ur the -_-tiest sura ever.

no,lol....i never encountered a ranger in woe...if c them,a rampage blast is enuf to kill ranger newbs!!
i told that As mny a ryms my gx get owned by rangers in pvp

Edited by simca437, 25 March 2012 - 03:03 AM.

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#41 Xellie

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:57 AM

no,lol....i never encountered a ranger in woe...if c them,a rampage blast is enuf to kill ranger newbs!!


I notice that you didn't respond to me telling you how to play. The fact that I had to tell you these things kinda indicates that you're a bad player. If you could kindly direct yourself to the sura balance thread, you may learn more about your class.
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#42 simca437

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:11 AM

I notice that you didn't respond to me telling you how to play. The fact that I had to tell you these things kinda indicates that you're a bad player. If you could kindly direct yourself to the sura balance thread, you may learn more about your class.

well,,i.just tried to pacify.the noob revolters,but u spoiled the game!!
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#43 Xellie

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:12 AM

well,,i.just tried to pacify.the noob revolters,but u spoiled the game!!


oic
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#44 Shiroi17

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:11 AM

News flash, only Sura have drawbacks. Rangers and Assassin's can't equip a shield while doing damage biggest drawback in the game imo. All classes are expensive in competitive play, some even need cataclysm, which means more weight less pots.
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#45 Niji

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:33 AM

everyone will forum murder each other b4 we get balanced...

on a side note all the dancers my daughter knows have quit.

Edited by Niji, 25 March 2012 - 06:34 AM.

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#46 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:07 AM

Thread hijacked by arguements about Suras. :p_err: I don't favor its chances of surviving 'til Monday to be possibly noticed.


I love topic changing balance threads with Sura balance. It's fun to see people's reaction. :gg:

Also, if you haven't leveled a Sura with Tiger Cannon, shut it, because it's a powerful skill in PvM.

Why can't GX or Genetic be this godly in WoE if you dump 10 billion worth of gears and goddies on them but Suras can? That's your evidence of "unbalanced".

Also, simca we get you don't want your precious Sura nerfed so just calm down.... lol

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 25 March 2012 - 07:14 AM.

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#47 Zaqar

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:49 AM

Its just weird how things can't be changed in moderation its usualy go big or go home. Example being the ranger pvm buff to make them 1shot most if not everything and making it look easy While others just need a simple tweek not a fall down the stairs like RG reflect damage just needing kaahi buff remove and maybe a max # of reflects per use.

With the new kvm updates being in are future things are looking grim because seeing those weapons you can clearly see what classes the devs like.

I personaly like the gear class specific being used to help balance or round out a class and since iro can't do skill adjustment outside of kro what about custome gear to negate the over nerfs or rebalance some classes to focus on defence/tanking..
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#48 frankSG07

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:21 AM

Lets talk about GX being buff and nerfing performers or sorcs hp and RKs hp being nerf for what reason?? Anyone interested??
No?? Going once??
Going twice??
.
.
.
Ok then back to sura -_-
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#49 Damara

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:13 AM

I main a wanderer. Don't hate, I've mained that thing since 2004. Since renewal I have been both elevated to top damage producer, then just as quickly relegated to the background as a gypsy kisser. I still get parties (it sometimes takes longer). I still love the character. I don't think I'd want to siege on it. I haven't WoEd post-renewal, and with the higher levels and different tactics I honestly don't know if it would even be worth it.

The other aggravating thing is increasing the sp cost of a bunch of the AB skills. It makes it a struggle for a low level AB to level unless there are a flock of them, which makes building parties harder. Also, it negates any small skill at supporting I've eked out over the years, since I'm at the mercy of constantly drained sp and huge cast delays. I rarely use group skills if there are fewer than 3 healers in party. We deal with it, but it would be annoying if I mained it.
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#50 Xellie

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:31 AM

You know with eggyra shoes and keeping up mag and decent int, you won't run out of SP even at low levels?

Edited by Xellie, 25 March 2012 - 11:31 AM.

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