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Discuss Lack of Balance Patch Feedback


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#101 asayuu

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:17 AM

Why would you even choose a wanderer vs a sura in the first place. Try an RK vs a Sura both with godly equips :dunno:

Enough with nerf sura but justice for performers


Stop dodging the question.

If they buff performers, I don't care about how the sura stay. The sura must be godly geared or on low hp to oneshot me anyways.


The problem on the sura is the lack of delay on GoH. 1 second is too few for the 0.25s cast time [variable reduction drops that high] and the > 20k damage in woe. Fist were stronger but slower, even on pre-balance. At least 5 seconds to reprepare fist, and around 2s cast time if you have no kvm fist. Come on, the skill is too fast. In strings you can oneshot and have something like 90k dps. Impossible to react and still pot. Chasers don't copy Flip Tatami anyways.

@Kraven (or anyone talking about FBH)

I would give it to a warlock instead of a sorcerer. Sometimes a sure oneshot on a key player [On TV or CL spam] is more important than one AOE spam to filter people. It's the same case as GoH vs Arrow Storm. We can say a sorcerer does well on FBH, but a warlock does it better.

@Topic:

I'm sure "buff performers and chasers" is WAY more important than "nerf suras". Why does some classes have better disables than a support/disable class? AND YET THEY HAVE BETTER DPS TOO [I'm talking about genetic, warlock and sorcerer. Sura has only CC for that...]

The bard x dancer thing exists since pre-renewal. The difference is, some renewal mechanics made strings ultrauseful, and all the other performer skills got worthless. Even Mental Sensing. Though wanting the devs to review bard/dancer skills may be too much.

Enough buffs for now:

1- Let all buffs stack. Choosing between Swing and Windmill is pointless. Guess what would happen if a priest had to choose between Bless and Agi, and the buffs being unable to stack. This is the actual problem with performers.

2- Remove the INT immunity of Deep Sleep Lullaby. In WOE I catch only GX and Ranger. At worst, change it to a LUK (or AGI) immunity. I want to DSL a sura and see it work! Normal Sleep is scarier than Deep Sleep on post-balance.

3- Make stun immunity being a combination of 2 120 stats. VIT/LUK or VIT/INT or VIT/DEX.

4- Make all status effects having a 5% chance unnaffected by stats, only by equipment.

I'm not familiar with how Archer Skel stacks with the WW set, so I mostly assumed the AS card would be the default. For any other class that uses ranged attacks though, an AS card is most certainly the best in this regard.

Be sure to do some damage tests with your CEB using Maximize Power though. I'd like to know if the ranged damage increase for it has been fixed or not.


White Wing Set [Without upgrades on the armor] = 33% ranged.
Elven Bow = 50% ranged.
Upgrades on armor... +10? = 20% ranged.

More 10% makes no difference, it's better to add new mods. One of them is Bloody. Probably Tendrilion on +12 could work too, excluding MVP cards.

Edited by asayuu, 26 March 2012 - 05:22 AM.

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#102 Kadelia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:30 AM

It takes me, a lex aeternaing priest, and a magic stringer to take down a sura
It takes 1 sura to bring me down

How is that balanced?

Nerf GoH or Cursed Circle. Cursed Circle is no worse of a guild disable skill than my Howling of Mandragora, so why is their offense(goh/gfist), defense (pneuma/snap/ruwach) and max HP(1.5x as much) so much higher than mine?

Edited by Jaye, 26 March 2012 - 05:31 AM.

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#103 Xellie

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:32 AM

If a sura only had one high powered move with a draw back, then it would be fine for multiple people to need to take it down, but as it stands... it's too much right now to be balanced.
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#104 Kadelia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:09 AM

If they didn't have cursed circle I'd say "OK, its fair, I can disable people and they can't." but as it stands they can do everything I can do, better. And can tank better in pvm. And can pneuma themselves quicker than I can without extra gear, and can ruwach easier without extra gear. I mean, really, how can anyone not see they are a "jack of all trades, master of all."? They'd be a lot more balanced if they were weakened in every area so they were really varied and could do a little of everything (heal, buff, tank, kill, disable) as long as they didn't do any one of those things better than a class specialized in those areas. but as it stands they are top tier in most areas.

Edited by Jaye, 26 March 2012 - 06:11 AM.

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#105 Xellie

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:14 AM

At least tank / kill is a real case of tank OR kill.
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#106 Kadelia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:16 AM

well that always was an issue I had with RG as they are a supreme tank but also was able to dish out ridiculous damage since paladin
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#107 Xellie

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:17 AM

I had that issue with sorcs for a bit too. Tankmages D:
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#108 Kadelia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:19 AM

lol ever seen a sorcerer tank abyss lake they are like in perma mental strength
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#109 Xellie

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:19 AM

I assumed that was the reason for their lower hp mod with the balance patch anyway
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#110 Shiroi17

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:28 AM

lol ever seen a sorcerer tank abyss lake they are like in perma mental strength


Do you have something against my 74% reduction against dragons! :pif:
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#111 PudinPuddy

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:32 AM

I might as well make a Sura right. My main is a Wanderer and I'm given less and less reason to level her.
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#112 Kadelia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:32 AM

hmm.. gold helm 12%(?)
+8 silver helm 12%(?)
Dragonology 25%
Dragon's Breath 15%
Dragoon Shield 30%
94%?

Edited by Jaye, 26 March 2012 - 06:33 AM.

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#113 Shiroi17

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:36 AM

I believe dragonology is 20% but yeah forgot about dragon breath!
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#114 Kadelia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:44 AM

oh yeah 20% but that makes 89% which is still godly lol
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#115 Inubashiri

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:59 AM

Sorc in most situations with Kaahi is basically a GM tanking, if you have Eddga's its just unfair but so fun if you're the one playing it. Not to mention if you're tanking for the person you can endow them and striking. You can also get 100+ p.dodge so easy and if you use Ventus 3 Defense Ability you can sit down and type /yawn cause they won't hit you no way no how.
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#116 Kadelia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:50 AM

I'm posting on the right now.


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#117 Heimdallr

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:26 AM

The first things we did was submit all the bug reports that were put in, IE skills that stated one thing but were doing another.
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#118 Xellie

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:29 AM

When will we get the other balance fixes that kRO has? like Dragon breath being affected correctly by reductions?
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#119 Heimdallr

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:34 AM

When will we get the other balance fixes that kRO has? like Dragon breath being affected correctly by reductions?


As always requests I make to kRO must include date of implementation of it on kROs servers (non-Sakray). I assume this is because the people I talk to only can go off of build dates rather than what the contents are. So me stating "the update where x Skill gets Y update" is meaningless. My life would be easier if I could talk game shop and get nods of understanding but that has never been the case I have to request builds.
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#120 frankSG07

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:26 AM

Stop dodging the question.


What are you talking about? :dunno:
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#121 shadowraa

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:30 AM

Simca I think the whole point of people saying Sura is OP is their package is far too good compared to other classes. Both for WoE and PvM.

They are the best PvM tanks, it requires 0 gear (You can't tank most high end stuff without a Sura tank, what's the point of RG which is supposed to be the tank class?).
They have a fairly high HP mod for the damage/survivability/mobility they have
They have support abilities, while not being very useful in WoE it still comes out handy.
They have ground targeted mobility that has a HUGE range
They have a disable
They have very high damage

If you compare that to other classes, they can't be all that at the same time.
I'm not saying they are game breaking and incredibly OP, but if you compare the package with other classes it's so uneven.
It's like giving shadow chasers Snap and a skill as strong as GoH. That's would be just wrong.


Tanking well for a group is a bad thing??? i always thought it was good. As for PVM damage, i have a sura and maybe its due to my gear or perhaps lack of skill for the class but i can't play it well. I remember back in the day where you would say" Yeah ! im badass because i am a monk!" now i say" god ... just let me get through these levels nice and easy , that way i can at least do some MVP punching.
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#122 Razgriz

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:34 AM

To be honest, Suras are indeed a great single target DPS and they are annoying with CC. However i think you guys are missing the real point, Suicidal Destruction became really overpowered, i mean come on, almost no cast time that can wipe a whole guild, the cooldown is really negible since there is guilds that have more than 2 SD mechs. Now if we are talking about balance, performer classes got owned, RKs are still annoying crowd control and bypass reductions and the change on frozen immunity made everything worst.

Basically things changed for the worst, nerfed classes got even more nerfed and OP classes remained OP, working as intended indeed
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#123 aznversaiboi

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:40 AM

Stop dodging the question.
@Topic:

I'm sure "buff performers and chasers" is WAY more important than "nerf suras". Why does some classes have better disables than a support/disable class? AND YET THEY HAVE BETTER DPS TOO [I'm talking about genetic, warlock and sorcerer. Sura has only CC for that...]

The bard x dancer thing exists since pre-renewal. The difference is, some renewal mechanics made strings ultrauseful, and all the other performer skills got worthless. Even Mental Sensing. Though wanting the devs to review bard/dancer skills may be too much.

Enough buffs for now:

1- Let all buffs stack. Choosing between Swing and Windmill is pointless. Guess what would happen if a priest had to choose between Bless and Agi, and the buffs being unable to stack. This is the actual problem with performers.

2- Remove the INT immunity of Deep Sleep Lullaby. In WOE I catch only GX and Ranger. At worst, change it to a LUK (or AGI) immunity. I want to DSL a sura and see it work! Normal Sleep is scarier than Deep Sleep on post-balance.

3- Make stun immunity being a combination of 2 120 stats. VIT/LUK or VIT/INT or VIT/DEX.

4- Make all status effects having a 5% chance unnaffected by stats, only by equipment.





Sorry to say, but i totally disagree with the immunity to stunning. NO class should be FORCED, to get two 120 stats for a immunity to stun. Its pointless. How will the equation be stated to immunity. Please make an equation to how it can be an immunity. Equations Aiinsha, Equations! Show how will two 120 stats with give you immunity!

Another thing I disagree with is, the wanderers and maestros buffs stacking. If a wanderer gets harmonized placed on them, the wanderer wont be able to undo it, BECAUSE of the fact that the skills, stack.! It makes no logic sense. Think of the pros and cons of this. No one should be able to take advantage of the use of both Windmill and Swing anyways. Good aspd, and strong strength, makes you Overpowered as it is.

DSL does need a buff but seriously, an immunity to it? DSL is the performers only 3rd class status that can be used by performers. (Pretty Sad how we share that status with Sorcerer's Arullo.) Why should there be an immunity placed to it? If thats the case, give an immunity to the other 3rd class skills such as Diamond Dust, Curse Circled, and etc. Also, what does luck or agi have to do with DSL's immunity. Make an equation here. You think just because you type big paragraphs that your right, sad to say, Your Totally Wrong and makes no sense at that. (: If there is to be given an immunity to DSL, then give immunity stats for CC, Diamond Dust, Mandragola Howling, and etc.

Performers are made to Support and Disable. Dont try to make Performers be Overppowered. I admit that Performers used to be Overpowered, but now its the other way around. To balance things, give back the normal DSL, the normal SR, and fix the immunity to stunning!
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#124 GuardianTK

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:45 AM

As always requests I make to kRO must include date of implementation of it on kROs servers (non-Sakray). I assume this is because the people I talk to only can go off of build dates rather than what the contents are. So me stating "the update where x Skill gets Y update" is meaningless. My life would be easier if I could talk game shop and get nods of understanding but that has never been the case I have to request builds.

So is kRO basically asking you to keep up with the patch updates they send out for their own servers? Or do they give you a comprehensive list of updates they've implemented on their servers for you to choose from?

This doesn't sound the same as when they promised they'd make server specific changes for iRO during the time when you guys set up the Balance Patch Feedback section.

Edited by GuardianTK, 26 March 2012 - 11:47 AM.

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#125 Xellie

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:47 AM

As always requests I make to kRO must include date of implementation of it on kROs servers (non-Sakray). I assume this is because the people I talk to only can go off of build dates rather than what the contents are. So me stating "the update where x Skill gets Y update" is meaningless. My life would be easier if I could talk game shop and get nods of understanding but that has never been the case I have to request builds.


That is a rather crappy system.
You'd think skill changes would be rolled out to all servers once implimented on kRO main in order to keep servers like iRO from having 2 years of crazy bad balance in WoE/PVP.
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