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#51 bl4ckm4ge9

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:10 PM

this skill is really OP... against 5 artis on CD and we really slept the whole game... cant even move... any suggestions on this skill?

How about making duration shorter? or making aoe radius lesser.... slower cooldown


Try to review again your statement as I understand this issue above, you complains about the number of arti that bombard you to ZzZ. Well at this point I don't know where's the imbalance you are imposing here.

Or maybe I will create a league or a legion all 15 arti's vs the c0cktail of your group.

Just don't forget to bring your sheet.. It's gonna be a pillow fight ^_^

Edited by bl4ckm4ge9, 12 June 2012 - 08:16 PM.

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#52 bl4ckm4ge9

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:40 PM

skill aint op just rather anoying when 5 ba spam it, thats it.
Over to the next op skill acording to whoever pls.

+1 to Walls in CD :D lol
they help cuz everyone going after the bourgs gives us leverage. Or maybe its just me o.o


@Graziano
---> still your argument here is the x number of arti spamming sleep and I don't see problems about this. Single battle or pvp even at times of wars this hypnoshot was its own line of defense. Its not even 100% accurate at times. Nerfed more the arti class then might as well delete arti on the game completely. What fun are we left in our plate? Crafting is dead, or rather waaaaas! dead(not unless they introduce new innovation for crafting) cept for gemcraft and potcraft of course, Best reason left to lvl an arti was to make it battle type.

And don't be selfish about this, bourg were much worst, Their aoe's making damage from a safe distance no wonder they are topping charts now.

Wall shooting should be fix (I don't support this personally).

Instead of finding ways to kill the artisan class.. Why not enhanced some left behind class like the knights and scouts? As i quote "They need some love too.."


@BourgToonE
Your class is next man.. Abusing wall shooting and making a leverage, huh... we'll see.. -__-
If they pin down the arti class even more, massive protest will erupt.
Like bendersmom have said, fix the perm stun/sleep bug first.

Edited by bl4ckm4ge9, 12 June 2012 - 08:57 PM.

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#53 Aviv4

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:58 PM

Yeah, I'm against wall shooting as well, you could call it cheat.
Tho most likely it wont be fixed cuz its has always been a part of ROSE.
Anyway, at 2nd crystal, the shooting from the bridge to the crystal and the opposite, I think its totally unfair.
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#54 bl4ckm4ge9

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:45 PM

Yeah, I'm against wall shooting as well, you could call it cheat.
Tho most likely it wont be fixed cuz its has always been a part of ROSE.
Anyway, at 2nd crystal, the shooting from the bridge to the crystal and the opposite, I think its totally unfair.



It's a two-way street.. either good/bad for defenders and as well for attackers.. Its a tactical advantage more often favored for defender cause they can hop to the otherside. Hope the Dev's address this..

Edited by bl4ckm4ge9, 12 June 2012 - 11:47 PM.

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#55 yobil

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:52 PM

i really dont know what to say but your worried about nerfing hypno but we can continue to get owned by raiders. Remember we (barti's) have huge disadvantages we cant decloak we are very easy to kill sleep is our only tool to get away with but i wouldnt expect a new b arti to understand this.



i do play my raider a lot and i know how you feel dude..and im agree w/ you..it kinda gives me more excitement killing artisans and bourg but when they got me and made me sleep its kinda like WTF??hahahaha and when im running they still hitting me to DEATH!! then GG!!hahahaha
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#56 JustinHaze

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:56 PM

As stated in the other artisan sleep thread.

The constant chaining of the sleep effect is what is the most obnoxious thing in GA. The bug needs to be fixed. While fixing the bug they need to reduce one of the following: duration, range, area of effect. The cool down time needs to be increased to prevent further spamming. Something needs to be done for the time being to keep the battle artisans (at this time) from being stacked on one side or the other in GA.

Before the other thread got locked (from the unnecessary drama) a bunch of people even said viable options for helping with the balancing effect.
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#57 JavedIqbal

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:59 PM

The majority of people seem to be avoiding the overall issue and blaming a single skill for a much larger issue in overall gameplay: The ability to chain things like sleep in order to disable other players for inordinately long periods of time. While the single skill is quite good, and may very well be overpowered if used effectively in a coordinated fashion, the biggest problem arises from it being applied from multiple sources, as the duration being 50% of the cooldown means it will be maintained fairly readily on a large number of targets from just a few artisans. If people who were put under the "sleep" effect became immune to it for 10 seconds after recovering from the effect, for example, it would be a whole different situation. Suddenly, it would be difficult to make use of 4 battle artisans and you would never be asleep for more than a third of the match.

Instead of repeatedly getting into the debate where everyone who plays a wide variety of classes and who are tired of being put to sleep argue that the skill needs to be nerfed, while those who play the artisan feel that the class is already bordering on ineffective try to defend the skill as a necessary part of gameplay, there needs to be some thought into the reason behind the problem with hypnoshot, which is largely the chain sleep effect (as well as the sleep/stun bug... but I'm not going to go into that :/).

I personally think the skill has too much area, as I feel with most targeted, ranged aoes, but that's not really the core of the issue.
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#58 JustinHaze

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:34 AM

Exactly. I think the only sure way to get rid of the chaining effect is to only allow (MAYBE) 2 artisan classes per team. Making it a little more fairer to the rest of the people in GA. I agree with the ranged aoe statement but we have to keep on the topic. Perhaps if there was a topic started about AOE balancing in general then a number of aoe balancing issues could be talked about.

I don't know the question off the top of my head, but maybe someone else can answer this a little better. Does sleep stack? I mean is there a block (like on targeted mutes), that keep you from being able to use it on another character in the same group being affected by sleep?
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#59 MistahDi

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:05 AM

how can artisan/artisan skill be OP if the hypno shot its the only skill we use in battle? (atleast i only use 1 skill in battle)
some ppl dont know how to fight an arti then call them OP and cry about what they do. simply stupidity.

@ the nonstop sleep in GA, i consider it hard to do it unless u are on vent with the other artis cause its like a combo after the other arti used the hypno u need to count few seconds to use hypno again. Using hypno shot when it was already used on same targets with the effect still there up on theyr heads it simply wont work.

I dunno if this was already said but im too lazy to read the entire thread so i just leave my opinion around here
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#60 JustinHaze

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:11 AM

how can artisan/artisan skill be OP if the hypno shot its the only skill we use in battle? (atleast i only use 1 skill in battle)
some ppl dont know how to fight an arti then call them OP and cry about what they do. simply stupidity.

@ the nonstop sleep in GA, i consider it hard to do it unless u are on vent with the other artis cause its like a combo after the other arti used the hypno u need to count few seconds to use hypno again. Using hypno shot when it was already used on same targets with the effect still there up on theyr heads it simply wont work.

I dunno if this was already said but im too lazy to read the entire thread so i just leave my opinion around here




Its not hard to know your role as a sleeper and watch for one sleep to hit, and then shoot one off as soon as you see the "Zzz" animation leave.


So the effect is negated if someone is already asleep. They can use sleep anytime they want?
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#61 JavedIqbal

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:32 AM

how can artisan/artisan skill be OP if the hypno shot its the only skill we use in battle? (atleast i only use 1 skill in battle)
some ppl dont know how to fight an arti then call them OP and cry about what they do. simply stupidity.


That is a fallacious argument. Just because there's only one skill being used doesn't mean it's not overpowered. To go to the extreme: I would rather have a single aoe that was absurdly powerful, had low cooldown, caused every debuff and had 100% success rate with reliable hit thrown in, than have the entire knight skill tree.

@ the nonstop sleep in GA, i consider it hard to do it unless u are on vent with the other artis cause its like a combo after the other arti used the hypno u need to count few seconds to use hypno again. Using hypno shot when it was already used on same targets with the effect still there up on theyr heads it simply wont work.

I dunno if this was already said but im too lazy to read the entire thread so i just leave my opinion around here


It's not difficult to spam sleep, and the fact that you're disparaging other people's failure to adapt to the tactics of artisans while simultaneously professing the inability to time skill usages or coordinate with team members is hypocritical to say the least. As I said before, however, I don't think the issue is solely based with the skill, but rather the effectiveness of the skill is facilitated by the current manner by which debuffs are handled by the game. Without any method of preventing chain sleeps/mutes/stuns, yes it is overpowered.

It's difficult to see an argument any differently. While it is balanced to a degree by the way that sleeps end, the simple fact of the matter is that one person can keep an area asleep for 5 out of every 10 seconds, which means that 2 artisans are capable of doing it indefinitely, and if your team is organized (meaning they sleep all the healers at once, and don't wake up people randomly, rather focus down targets instead) it is very easy to take advantage of this sort of situation.

To avoid getting off-topic, I'm not going to go into the other similar skills that other classes have (clerics, bourgs, and mages - although I don't mind mages, as I feel like they should have some sort of advantage in that regard... they are supposed to be the glass cannon class), but try to avoid thinking of this as persecuting the artisan class, and rather simply trying to better the game as a whole.

Edited by JavedIqbal, 13 June 2012 - 01:34 AM.

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#62 MistahDi

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:34 AM

well not anytime i see myself in many situations when getting ganged waiting for the hypno CD to end and sometimes when its not even close to use i have to click on respawn
ppl seem to be forgeting that cloack is more op then hypnoshot in everyway

but still, instead of complaining about skills that are ok for now, people should realize this game doesnt need skills to be changed....

Instead of: wy artisans have blablabla
wy raiders have blablabla

Please say: wy this game is so blablabla

Edited by MistahDi, 13 June 2012 - 01:35 AM.

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#63 MistahDi

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:38 AM

That is a fallacious argument. Just because there's only one skill being used doesn't mean it's not overpowered. To go to the extreme: I would rather have a single aoe that was absurdly powerful, had low cooldown, caused every debuff and had 100% success rate with reliable hit thrown in, than have the entire knight skill tree.


i rather prefer to have cloack and stealth on arti then the hypnoshot..........
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#64 kwayan19

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:41 AM

how about why are you bla bla bla


jk :3
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#65 Phish

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:28 AM

how can artisan/artisan skill be OP if the hypno shot its the only skill we use in battle? (atleast i only use 1 skill in battle)
some ppl dont know how to fight an arti then call them OP and cry about what they do. simply stupidity.



You just answered your own question. If the skill wasn't overpowered, you might actually need to use other skills aside from a single one.

JavedIqba, thats not a bad idea to have some king of protection against stuns after you've been stunned. I don;t know how easy it would be to implement, or how it would play out in the long run.
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#66 Bendersmom

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:34 AM

I don't think I agree with limiting BA in GA. Not only will that more than likely mess up the queue system even more but it would single out one class, which is discrimination. The bugs have to be fixed, then the skills like Hypnoshot need to be looked at. A lot of people have posted good ideas for modifying the AOE stun/sleep/mute skills in game and some of those should be considered. But I definitely do not think any more classes should be limited in GA.
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#67 borgahutt

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 09:13 AM

I don't think I agree with limiting BA in GA. Not only will that more than likely mess up the queue system even more but it would single out one class, which is discrimination. The bugs have to be fixed, then the skills like Hypnoshot need to be looked at. A lot of people have posted good ideas for modifying the AOE stun/sleep/mute skills in game and some of those should be considered. But I definitely do not think any more classes should be limited in GA.

yeah more should be added to *cough* mage!! but no more limited :) if other classes are added to then it will be fine :) and of course ALL the bugs sorted out and the walls pushed back etc. list goes on
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#68 johniscu

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:59 AM

You just answered your own question. If the skill wasn't overpowered, you might actually need to use other skills aside from a single one.

JavedIqba, thats not a bad idea to have some king of protection against stuns after you've been stunned. I don;t know how easy it would be to implement, or how it would play out in the long run.


....we only have 2 skills poison shot is useless....
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#69 jerremy

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:02 AM

I don't see where poison shot is useless to you. Yes it may not have an area effect like hypno shot, but poison and burn are incredibily useful status effects, as they ignore defensive and dodge values and just do a constant stream of damage. Fairly effective against a lot of classes. So it may be less effective than hypno shot, but it is far from useless.
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#70 johniscu

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:32 AM

You must not play enough jeremy its useless it has no damage where as burn has tons of dot
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#71 yeoldknight

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:37 AM

You must not play enough jeremy its useless it has no damage where as burn has tons of dot

It can sleep a raider long enough for you to get far enough away to live quite a bit longer.
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#72 jerremy

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

What I find most annoying when fighting a scout (or BA) in 1v1 is their ability to poison, their normal dmg is horrid. BA's dmg output is a little better though.

Edited by jerremy, 13 June 2012 - 11:48 AM.

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#73 Kitt

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:42 PM

Again, I don't PvP, so my thoughts are theories based upon what I read in these threads.

Two ideas occured to me. The first one is in line with the 'mercenary' nature of the Dealer class. With this idea, Artisans create the need for a commodity with their sleep skill, and they can make money (as per the description of the class) by crafting and selling the cure -- a Sleep Resistance Potion.

The second might work hand-in-hand with the first -- a chance for the character subjected to the sleep effect to develop a resistance to the effect if hit with it again in the same combat situation. This doesn't make the sleep effect useless to the artisan who might need it, but perhaps adds a strategy to using it effectively with other skills and attacks, or teammates' skills instead of spamming the same skill. If it is spammed, eventually it doesn't work reliably as it has to overcome a temporarily increased resistance, if at all. Of course, then members of the opposing team could feint, and try to draw the Artisan into using the sleep prematurely, to derail their strategy.
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#74 Svenatenine

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:48 PM

What I find most annoying when fighting a scout (or BA) in 1v1 is their ability to poison, their normal dmg is horrid. BA's dmg output is a little better though.

How do you feel when you 1v1 a raider and they burn you though?
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#75 jerremy

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:54 PM

How do you feel when you 1v1 a raider and they burn you though?

While raider isn't really part of what the topic is about, I'll guess I'll still answer that one.
Raider burn is even more annoying, and we all know as of right now they're overpowered. But burn being better than poison doesn't mean you can say is poison useless.

Edited by jerremy, 13 June 2012 - 12:56 PM.

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