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O mighty MvPs I will smite you with my hard, hard stick - Gene Weapon Discussion


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#1 michaeleeli

michaeleeli

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

Thanks to everyone who discussed and discussed and discussed here, and credits especially to Dr.Azzy for being very patient and clear with his information!
And remember to read first before asking a question that has been answered a gazillion times here.

 

TL;DR To very new geneticists who are starting out without a lot of money, get a +9/+12 Red Twin Sword with 3x Archer Skeleton Card first.

WEAPONS
------------------------------
What is the best MvP weapon for gene? There is no straight answer for this. Different weapons have different uses, so please read the Facts section and the 999 page discussion below. Spend some time reading it or you won't learn!

Below is listed in terms of usefulness. It is not ordered by superiority but by which is most efficient to get and use first - so a #4 could be better than #1 on some occasions. #x are equips that are limited in use - read the discussion to learn why!

"Usefulness" measures how many situations/how often you will use it. The higher the usefulness, the earlier you should get it. "Damage" is measured with optimized damage (so not raw damage). Remember you will fail if you take the ★ as a direct measurement. With different buffs and equips, they can be much different in situations!

Remember two rules: 1) Assume weapons are +12. 2) Assume future enchantable weapons (such as Red Twin Sword) gets 1x Expert Archer 5 on average (+10% ranged).

 

Acid Bomb

#1: Hurricane Fury | x1 Abysmal Knight | x2 EA5

Usefulness: ★ | Damage: ★ | Price: ★ **Read Fact 9 

#2: Red Twin Sword | x3 Abysmal Knight | x1 EA5

Usefulness: ★☆ | Damage: | Price: 

#3: Erde | x2 Abysmal Knight | x2 EA5

Usefulness: ★ | Damage: ★ | Price:   **Read Fact 13

#4: Byeollungum | x2 EA5

Usefulness: ★ | Damage: ★ | Price:  **Read Fact 10 

#x: Elemental Sword | x3 Skeleton Archer

Usefulness: ★ | Damage: ★ | Price: 

#x: Mjolnir. A good God Item for many cases

Usefulness: ★ | Damage: ★ | Price: 


Cart Cannon
Cart Cannon is highly affected by Ranged mods and high eATK due to it being applied twice, first being multiplied by elemental modifier (from cannon ball element) then after adding it to the whole equation, the elemental modifier is applied again to the total number. Again, "ranking" here is not important because different weapon serves different purposes. Spell enchants are good for instant casts.

 

Pure Damage vs Small-sized (Best with team, strings, buffs, etc while wearing maximum damage equips <- Will expand on later)

#1: Byeollungum | x2 EA5

#2: Red Twin Sword | x3 Abysmal Knight | x1 EA5

 

Pure Damage vs Large-sized Bosses & Mid-sized Bosses 

#1: Hurricane Fury | x1 Abysmal Knight | x2 EA5 **Read Fact 9

#2: Erde | x2 Abysmal Knight | x2 EA5 **Read Fact 13

 

High DPS (Best when solo, +9 FAW SP19, beez card, etc. Note the only reason to get Spell enchant is if it makes a difference in instant cast with or without it. If you have instant cast with others, go EA)

#0: Mjolnir (Great for stat-wise instant cast CC)

#1: Hurricane Fury | x1 Abysmal Knight | x2 Spell4 **Read Fact 9

#2: Byeollungum | x2 Spell4

#3: Erde | x2 Abysmal Knight | x2 Spell4 **Read Fact 13

#4: Red Twin Sword | x3 Abysmal Knight | x1 Spell4


Fire Expansion
Fire expansion lv5 is basically an AoE Acid Bomb skill which ignores enemy def. The catch however is that it is a physical (recent change) and range-blockable (pneuma etc) skill and is not affected by ranged or +% Matk vs Race modifiers. This skill needs more testing, as it is suggestive it has a different formula than AB (recent change) which makes MATK way more important.
​-Elemental Sword | x3 Abysmal Knight
-Elemental Sword | x3 Skeleton Worker (Or any other +% Physical vs Race/Size cards, good for non-boss protocol mobs such as Bio monsters)
-Red Twin Sword | x3 Hydra/Skeleton Worker | x1 Spell4
-Hurricane Fury | x1 Hydra/Skeleton Worker | x2 Spell4
-Glorious Mace (Specific for demihuman - especially Bio. Deals the most damage out of all)

 

Facts:
1) For budget-efficiency, Future RTS > Future Other Weapons. It can be used in 99% of all occasions so it is a good all-round weapon for new gene's. However, situations vary, and a good gene will get other weapons to maximize battle efficiency. 
2) Sword Mastery does affect CC (Not AB) damage at a noticeable amount (worth to get, works with Swords and Daggers).
3) Axe Mastery does affect CC (Not AB) damage with a bare amount (not worth to get, works with Swords and Axes).
4) AK card, although calculated differently and not a significant amount than range modifier (Quote Azzy +"3% for AB, more like 8-9% with CC"), is better than AS card against MvPs. However, it may/may not be worth making it since an all-rounder AS is more practical - it depends on your budget. Being an end-game player, I favor AK cards on high-tier weapons more. Cheap equips such as Erde and RTS, I don't mind slotting AS cards on.

5) Buwaya Tattoo maximizes MATK variance more than Bakonawa for ATK variance, thus Buwaya Tattoo > Bakonawa Tattoo in terms of damage (if you have relatively same MATK & ATK Variance)
6) Medal of Honor still wins as accessory damage against Tattoos.
7) Lord of the Dead Helm's +10% damage vs boss does not work, although the upgrade past +5 part does. Combo effect with AK card does not work either.

8) Quote Dr.Azzy - "1 str = 2.8, luk = 1, int = 1.5 for relative AB damage with Red Twin Edge or similar atk weapon". Quote Dr.Azzy "A good rule of thumb is that for CC, 2% atk ~= 1% ranged damage, for AB, 3% atk = 3% matk = 1% ranged. "
9) Hurricane Fury has a low usefulness rating because it is double-handed, thus taking away the important Alice shield away making you vulnerable to many, many MvPs. It can be a difference of getting 1-shotted by certain MvP's and thus making you useless, doing no DPS at all. Its damage is lower on mid-size monsters and horrible on small-sized monsters (can be fixed with Weapon Perfection skill), but with high EA enchants it deals the highest damage out of all towards large-size monsters. Its variance ATK is also much larger, thus having a larger range of min & max damage on AB. Thus you can say its a sacrafice of huge defense for huge attack (for large-sized only). This might be confusing for you at first, but it is important to know when you deal with multiple MvP's in the future.
10) Although Byeo is placed after RTS's in damage, currently Byeo deals a bit more damage than RTS without the EA enchants. It is up to you to get it now or wait for the enchants to come. Some rumors suggest it's coming after the GH update, which could be few months...or few years.
11) Further testing suggests +% Racial magic damage cards do not affect Fire Expansion lv5 damage. This is to assume +% magic damage will not affect it. However, +% Physical Racial damage works with it, and assumingly so with +% Size damage works too. +% Damage vs Elemental Property have not been tested yet. [It is suspected that these increase applies to the whole function verses the AB formula where it only applies partially - pending for test.]

12) Do note that in some cases, damage with highly enchanted HF, Erde, or other weapons against the right monster with the right buffs can be larger than Mjolnir. 

13) Erde is a one-handed mace thus deals 100% to Large-sized MvP's and Mid-sized MvP's. Thanks to Alicesaurus for mentioning it. Since Erde is usable, this also applies to Red Square Bag. This means that it is like a mini-Hurricane Fury, where you can use Pryo without breaking the weapon and spam it on large-size MvP's - while wearing a shield! It is also the cheapest weapon to make, if you don't aim too high on EA enchants.

14) Remember that Axes and Maces are indestructible on default (except upgrade chances). This might affect your choice on homunculus as some genes use the Dieter buff.

Questions remaining to be answered:
1) For fact #5, the calculation remains a bit unknown whether how much variance ATK needs to exceed variance MATK for Bakonawa Tattoo to be more effective than Buwaya Tattoo. For 100 variance MATK + 100 variance ATK, 2x Buwaya would be better. Obviously, 500 variance ATK + 100 variance MATK Bakonawa would be better, and vice versa. But generally on what scale does variance ATK need to be to exceed variance MATK? E.g. Does +12 Elemental Sword x3 AS with 2x Buwaya get more bonus damage from maximizing the MATK variance, so much more bonus that it can be better than +12 RTS x3 AS with 2x Bakonawa? Or does 2x Buwaya on +12 RTS already exceed 2x Bakonawa?
2) Does Elemental Sword's +10% damage on neutral monsters work, and on Acid Bomb or Cart Cannon?
3) What other modifiers affect Fire Expansion Lv5?

4) Is FE formula and AB formula drastically different? -Pending with tests, highly suggestive
 

 

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COMBO WEAPON + EQUIPS

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Now many of you will ask, "So when do I know which weapon to use in what situation??". If you are inexperienced, you can read info here as it might help you. For old players, you get a gist of how you fight yourself so no need to look over these.

 

For a detailed list of combo equips, skill, and stat build, please look at Dr.Azzy's thread: http://forums.warppo...rk-in-progress/

For a simulation of your equip's damage, use Dr.Azyy's Gene Calculator (in his signature):http://forums.warppo...ser/328-drazzy/

For in-action on how to kill certain MvP's, watch Havenn's videos here: http://forums.warppo...ist-mvp-videos/

However, Azzy's thread do not include god items or MvP cards, so I will include those below. What I will do is give you certain combo uses in specific situations (so, not-so-general general use). 

 

If I don't list a certain equip, you're freely to choose either defensive (to save pots) or offensive (save time), since either wouldn't kill you. Shoes should always be variants/sleips for suvival, EA enchanted dex boots for damage. Stat foods include the cheapest Savage BBQ, Petite Noodles, and Box of Resentment. You can use INT food, too.

From Azzy: Note that BDM can be switched with Dark Ping Black Frame Glasses, Robo Eye, or Improved Opera Phantom Mask for lower wATK choices for AB(such as RTS)

 

Versus Large-size Boss:

With a team:

Hurricane Fury | AK Cards | EA Enchant

Fallen Angel Wing EA10

Evil Marching Hat, BDM

Pyroclastic Skill

Damage Accessories

Stat Food

 

Without a team:

Erde | AK Cards | EA Enchant

Alice Shield

Heroic Backpack w/ Deviling or Raydric

Abysmal Knight Helm w/ Elemental Reduction

Glasses w/ Elemental Reduction

Kafra Blossom Card Accessory + Under a Cast

Defensive Armor w/ Element or Damage

Pyroclastic Skill or Pain Killer Skill

Stat Food, Resist Potions, HP Large Increase

 

Situation: With a team you can dish out pure damage, especially if you have an AB + String, you can kill most large MvP's in mere seconds before they dish out damage. Using Hurricane Fury is not a good way to fight against MvP's who can use strong Earthquakes, unless you have a very responsive team who can get up within seconds, or unless you have god speed to spam Ygg seeds + Ygg Berries in time.

Without a team, you can solo many bosses while potting like crazy (with ygg seeds!). If you are fighting a low/mid-tier large size MvP, you can swap out many of the defensive equips to offensive, such as Accessories and Headgear. Pain Killer will help drastically against fast-hitting MvP's. 

Both weapons deal 100% to large-size enemies and they won't break! Thus, Pyroclastic skill works wonders with this setup.

 

Versus Mid-size and Small-size Bosses

With a team:

Byeollungum | EA Enchants

Erde | EA Enchants

Alice Shield

Fallen Angel Wing EA10

Evil Marching Hat, BDM

Pyroclastic Skill

Full Chemical Protection Skill

Damage Accessories

Stat Food

 

Without a team:

Red Twin Sword | AK Cards | EA Enchants

Alice Shield

Heroic Backpack w/ Deviling or Raydric

Abysmal Knight Helm w/ Elemental Reduction

Glasses w/ Elemental Reduction

Kafra Blossom Card Accessory + Under a Cast

Defensive Armor w/ Element or Damage

Pain Killer Skill or Overboost Skill

Stat Food, Resist Potions, HP Large Increase

 

Situation: Currently Byeollungum deals better damage than Red Twin Sword, so it's a good use when fighting with a team. It does make you 10% more vulnerable to the MvP's non-boss spawns, so using it alone could be risky - thus use Red Twin Sword. Erde is also use-able if you have Pyroclastic, but remember to not use Pyroclastic with the other swords as you might risk breaking them (even with Full Chemical Protection), making you useless if you don't have other weapons. You can risk it with a team, just remember to bring extra weapons.

Again, when fighting solo against low/mid tier MvP's, you can swap out some defensive for offensive equips.

 

 

Now, on to Versus Ghosts. Assume Strings give -50% Variable Reduction. There are only 5 significant ghost bosses you have to deal with (not including KK MvP).

 

Versus Evil Snake Lord

With Strings and Tank:

Hurricane Fury | AK Cards | EA Enchants

Fallen Angel Wing EA10 w/ Raydric Card

Crown of Deceit w/ Katheryne Keyron Card

RWC SP3/3 Accessories x2

Pyroclastic Skill

Stat Food

 

Without a team:

Erde | AK Cards | SP Enchants

Alice Shield

Fallen Angel Wing EA4 SP12

Crown of Deceit w/ Ketheryne Keyron Card

Kafra Blossom Card RWC SP3/3 Accessories x2

Unfrozen Fire Armor

Pyroclastic Skill

 

Stat Food, Elemental Resist Potions

 

Situation: Very self-explanatory here, easiest ghost MvP boss so no need to defend yourself much. Just make sure to have your Unfrozen Volcano armor while solo'ing so you don't get one-shotted when frozen. 

 

Versus Thanatos

With Strings and Tank:

Erde | AK Cards | EA Enchants

Alice Shield

Fallen Angel Wing EA10 w/ Raydric Card

Crown of Deceit w/ Katheryne Keyron Card

Kafra Blossom Card RWC SP3/3 Accessories x2

HP, Damage, or Angeling Card Armor

Pyroclastic Skill

Stat Food, Elemental Resist Potions, HP Large Increase

 

Without a team:

Erde | AK Cards | SP Enchants

Alice Shield

Fallen Angel Wing EA4 SP12

Crown of Deceit w/ Ketheryne Keyron Card

Kafra Blossom Card RWC SP3/3 Accessories x2

Angeling Card Armor

Pyroclastic Skill or Pain Killer Skill

Stat Food, Elemental Resist Potions, HP Large Increase

 

Situation: If you have a team and you're a good gene, you'll stand outside of Thanatos's spell range. However, there are times you'll be hit no matter what so always be prepared to swap an Unfrozen Armor and Elemental reduction gears. If you solo Thanatos, position yourself well so that your cart cannon also kills Thanatos's mobs, thus reducing your damage taken. Pain Killer works wonders here. If you don't kill him fast enough he could also Element Change, thus you should switch to Acid Bomb to kill him instead.

 

Versus Beelzebub:

With Strings and Tank:

Byeollungum | EA Enchants

Hurricane Fury | AK Cards | EA Enchants

Alice Shield

Fallen Angel Wings EA4 SP12 w/ Deviling Card

Abysmal Knight Helm, Evil Marching Hat

Insomniac Glasses, BDM

RWC SP3/3 Accessories x2

Pyroclastic Skill

Stat Food

 

Without a team:

Erde | AK Cards | SP Enchants

Alice Shield

Fallen Angel Wings SP Enchants w/ Deviling Card

Abysmal Knight Helm, BDM

RWC SP3/3 Accessory, Under a cast

High DEF or HP Armor

Pain Killer Skill

Stat Food, HP Large Increase

 

Situation: First equip Byeo, Shield, and Insomniacs before Beelz's evolution. After evolution, swap to Hurricane Fury and BDM. You can choose to save on pots by equipping Erde/Alice and Abysmal Knight helm, but I choose not to since Beelz will use a 666 pure damage (non reducable) AoE skill so I go for straight damage, killing it as fast as I can. The boss deals no elemental damage so equip as much neutral resist and DEF as you can. Make sure to not stand within Beelz's Pulse Strike skill, which many do and get one-shotted while wondering what killed them.

Solo'ing a Beelz is highly not recommended as you will die and need to come back to it. To really see someone doing it in action, look at Havenn's MvP videos.

 

Versus Gloom Under Night

With Strings and Tank:

Hurricane Fury | AK Cards | EA Enchants

Fallen Angel Wing EA10

Crown of Deceit w/ Katheryne Keyron Card

RWC SP3/3 Accessories x2

Pyroclastic Skill

Stat Food

 

Without a team:

Erde | AK Cards | SP Enchants

Alice Shield

Fallen Angel Wings SP Enchants w/ Raydric Card

Abysmal Knight Helm with Leib Olmai Card

Glasses with Leib Olmai Card

Kafra Blossom Card RWC SP3/3 Accessories x2

Fire Armor

Pyroclastic Skill or Pain Killer Skill

Full Chemical Protection

Stat Food, Fire Resist Potion, HP Large Increase

 

Situation: With a team is fairly easy, killing it like any other (doesn't have huge AoE's to even hurt you). Solo'ing is a bit tricky, as you need to deal with its Bomb skill somehow. There are a few ways: 1) If you have a homunculus who can use Castling, you can teleport yourself outside of Gloom's Bomb. 2) Gloom walks really slow, so you can kite with running and Castling (only if you have instant-cast CC). 3) Place a Bomb under yourself; it will prevent Gloom from casting his under yours. 

 

Versus Naght Sieger

With a team:

Erde | AK Cards | EA Enchants

Alice Shield

Fallen Angel Wing SP Enchants w/ Raydric Card

Abysmal Knight Helm w/ Leib Olmai Card

Glasses with Leib Olmai Card

Unfrozen Fire Armor

RWC SP3/3 Accessories x2

Pyroclastic Skill

Stat Food, Elemental Resist Potions, HP Large Increase

 

Situation: Since I have never seen a Gene solo Naght Sieger in time, there should always be a team with you. Always wear Unfrozen Fire Armor to prevent one-shotted by Meteor Storm and getting frozen. Sorcerer's should be using Warmer while AB's spamming their skills too. You should always FCP the tank. Some people, like me, like to go all offense to kill it as fast as possible - you can do so by swapping the headgear or FAW for damage. 

I've also seen plenty of people who Duo ET with a tank (either Sura or Royal Guard). In this case, the equips are highly similar, but you should always be on your toes in case your tank dies.

 

 

This section will be fighting difficult and hard mobs that are not Bosses [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

 

Versus Biolab 3:

 

 

Now, off to the OP section!

 

God Builds:

I'm gonna deal the highest Acid Bomb number in the game! (I still need minimum survivability, though):

Megingjard x2

120 Base STR

Hurricane Fury/Erde | AK Cards | EA Enchants

Fallen Angel Wings EA10

Orleans Gown with Porcellio Card or Brynhild

Sleipnir

+12 Evil Marching Hat with Seyron Windsor Card

Pyroclastic Skill

Stat Food

 

Situation: You should be doing this only with a team - with AB and Strings, 90% of the MvP's you summon through Bloody Branches can be killed under a few seconds.

 

I'm going to be a Cart Cannon master but without Spell Enchants where you muggles use!:

Mjolnir

Sleipnir or Dex Boots of Time (EA Enchant)

120 Base DEX

100+ Base INT

Stat Food, +10 Stat Food

Brisingamen or Megingjard or Kafra Blossom Card Black Rosary

Well-Chewed Pencil (if it makes a difference)

 

Situation: You can also go pure damage for non-threatening bosses, such as +12 EMH Seyron Windsor Card, FAW EA10, etc. But this setup doesn't need you to sacrifice any defense at all, thus allowing you to instant cast while being able to tank monsters! Go, go, ghost busters!

 

 

MvP Cards? Yeah I have all of them...and I'm still reading this guide somehow...I don't know how I got them myself, I think I should give them to you michaeleeli:

Damage Cards:

Gloom Under Night Card - Allows you to butter melt certain MvP's such as Valkyrie Randgris. A very, very strong MvP card.

Beelzebub Card - Allows you to instant cast so much easier, especially with two, thus easily maximizing your damage with other equips.

Kiel-D-01 Card - Increases your Acid Bomb DPS, which is very nice especially when solo'ing. 

Ktullanux Card - Semi useful, you can kill Ifrit much easier but without fire armor you can also die as easily.

 

Defense Cards:

Golden Thief Bug Card - Allows you to fight so much differently with it, certainly one of the best MvP cards you can own.

Detardeurus Card - AoE Magic?? Pfffffft. Allows you to auto-cast Magnetic Earth, making a few bosses much easier to fight.

Hatii Card - Freezes all non-boss mobs, including MvP spawns, thus allowing you to survive much longer.

Tao Gunka Card - If for some reason you feel like you shouldn't need to wear Elemental armor, and need HP to survive Earthquake, this can help a lot.

Amon Ra Card - Only helps if you somehow (seriously, somehow) you have super low Skill Delay, you are basically immune to auto-attacks.

Maya Card - Weird if you use this, but if you time it right, you may reflect some Earthquakes back, also it's insanely cheap compared to the other MvP cards.

 

Support Cards:

Pharaoh Card - Saves tons of SP, maybe great in a Rideword Hat, highly efficient in Endless Tower.

Dracula Card - Also saves tons of SP by acting as a better version of Rideword Hat.

RSX 0806 - Cheap card to replace Brynhild's effect, useful in certain parts of Endless Tower. 

 

 

 

 

More to come!

 

 

 

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Old post:

Sample Full Build:
Thus, in conclusion, we can say with some confidence that in the future, the best affordable and available and realistic weapon + accessory max damage combo against general MvPs would be:

Headgear: +9 Evil Marching Hat with Dark Pinguicula Card (If it is +10 or higher, Seyren Windsor Card is better) (Against Undead/Demon, witch hat + mask is better) (For reductions, slot Abysmal knight helm with leib obal/other elemental reduction cards) (Optional: +9 Crown of Deceit for excellent Cart Cannon cast time)
Mid-gear: Black Devil Mask (Or mid-slot with elemental reduction cards for reduction)
Low-gear: Pirate Dagger/Gangster Scarf
Armor: Orleans Gown and Elemental Armors (Porcellio card, +3 INT enchants, elemental cards, unfrozen, bakonawa armors)
Weapon: See above
Garment: +9 Heroic Backpack (Deviling and Immune, even further you can have Jakk cards or other elemental reduction cards), +9 FAW (Spell 18/19, EA20, or EA4/Spell6/Spell6)
Shield: Valk Shield of Royal Guard, Cranial Immune/Valk shield (Optional: Race reduction valk shield)
Shoes: +9 Enhanced Variants w/ Firelock Card
Accessory: 2x Medal of Honors, 2x Buwaya Tattoo, 2x Bakonawa Tattoo, RWC Accessories | Bloody Shackle, +ATK Accessories (Phen Card if no orleans gown) (Optional: Kafra Blossom Cards)


Details of RWC Combo on post 113, page 5 of discussion.


Edited by michaeleeli, 08 July 2014 - 03:01 AM.

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#2 Riakuta

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:26 PM

From what I've read the 2 best possible Weapons for Acid Bomb damage are:
Triple Kingbird Twin Edge of Naght Sieger [3] (Red)
Byeollungum Expert Archer 4~6 Expert Archer 4~6

Edit: @Joaco
michaeleeli wishes he had access to one :3, but as his friend I say not happening /gg.

Edited by Riakuta, 02 December 2012 - 10:30 PM.

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#3 Joaco

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:28 PM

Mjolnir?
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#4 Baturiano

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

Acid Bomb is partially endowed right?
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#5 Riakuta

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

Acid Bomb is partially endowed right?


Nope 100% Forced Neutral.
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#6 michaeleeli

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

How come I sometimes see people argue elemental sword is better than red twin though? Don't get x.x
And the vecer axe with two expert archer 5, you could get +40% AS damage, which is 10% more than red twin. Dunno, the ATk bonus you get could be worse though.

I might just settle on the byeogg x2 expert archer 4, it looks like it does waaaaaaaaay more damage than red twin to mvps

Hurricane fury with expert archer 4x2 seems superb too = =? Even though you don't get shield anymore and die super fast lol

Edited by michaeleeli, 02 December 2012 - 11:16 PM.

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#7 Riakuta

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

How come I sometimes see people argue elemental sword is better than red twin though? Don't get x.x
And the vecer axe with two expert archer 5, you could get +40% AS damage, which is 10% more than red twin. Dunno, the ATk bonus you get could be worse though.

I might just settle on the byeogg x2 expert archer 4, it looks like it does waaaaaaaaay more damage than red twin to mvps

Suggest Renewal Formula

Damage = Skill Level x [VIT x (ATK + MATK)/ K] x modifier

+12 Triple Kingbird Elemental Sword

Skill Level x [VIT x (165 + 155)/ K] x modifier
Skill Level x [VIT x 320/ K] x modifier

+12 Triple Kingbird Twin Edge of Naught Sieger (Red)

Skill Level x [VIT x (244 + 84)/ K] x modifier
Skill Level x [VIT x 328/ K] x modifier

Elemental Sword is close to Twin Edge, but in terms of upgrade bonus and total atk vs total matk it holds no cigar.
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#8 TopDog18

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

Yeah,Red Twins are far superior to Elemental Swords....
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#9 kasshin

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:26 AM

Vecer axe is probably a bad choice in most situations with 50% small, 75% medium, 100% large. Maces and Swords have better size modifiers and are one handed too.
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#10 Exvee

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:42 AM

Does size modifier really matter? Because I just doubt Axe cons matter more on size modifier rather than no shield... CC can one or two shots most enemies in same range level regardless their size using +7 HF... I just take quick test regarding this..

monster stats
http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1989/
http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1986/
http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/2024/

cart cannon
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open281.jpg
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open280.jpg
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open284.jpg

acid bomb
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open282.jpg
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open283.jpg
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open286.jpg

The damage only varies on monster stats rather than size weapon, Hills and Tacho has same vit but differ size yet they take same damage for both skills...
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#11 sb120495

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:32 AM

Wouldn't a mjollnir be the best? It has a much higher attack.
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#12 Baturiano

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:39 AM

Nope 100% Forced Neutral.


http://irowiki.org/wiki/Acid_Bomb

I was confused when it said element of weapon can increase damage O_O I thought it was endowable
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#13 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:45 AM

Wouldn't a mjollnir be the best? It has a much higher attack.


Archer Skel cards boost attack that far exceeds Mjolnir. When MvPing Demi-humans though, Glorious Morning Star owns 3x AS Red Twin.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 03 December 2012 - 06:45 AM.

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#14 sb120495

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:49 AM

Also not entirely related but do megs increase damage by a lot when your base strength is less than 120?
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#15 Jen1oak

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

+12 RED twin naught with 3xArcher skeleton
its pretty much like Mjolnir already. just slower casting coz Mjol has 50dex

Edited by Jen1oak, 03 December 2012 - 09:58 AM.

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#16 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:47 AM

Still on my +12 x3 AS Red Sieg not only for decent dmg but it has cool weapon sprite.
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#17 michaeleeli

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:40 PM

Whats the weapon sprite for byeoglum? Lol feels like +50% to boss and +16% ranged is gg/
I got my glorious star so no worries against bio3 monsters and mvps ^^
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#18 kasshin

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

Does size modifier really matter? Because I just doubt Axe cons matter more on size modifier rather than no shield... CC can one or two shots most enemies in same range level regardless their size using +7 HF... I just take quick test regarding this..

monster stats
http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1989/
http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1986/
http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/2024/

cart cannon
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open281.jpg
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open280.jpg
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open284.jpg

acid bomb
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open282.jpg
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open283.jpg
http://i228.photobuc...rie_Open286.jpg

The damage only varies on monster stats rather than size weapon, Hills and Tacho has same vit but differ size yet they take same damage for both skills...


Size modifier definitely matters, I've tested it on multiple monsters. DEF is probably one of the things showing varied damage on your results. Bradium Golems have really huge DEF in particular. For Acid Bomb it also depends on the target's VIT. CC isn't a very strong attack in the first place so the damage differences are smaller.
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#19 Quills

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

+12 RED twin naught with 3xArcher skeleton
its pretty much like Mjolnir already. just slower casting coz Mjol has 50dex

Acid Bomb has a 1 second fixed cast time, so it wouldn't matter as much unless it's for Cart Cannon to clear the mobs.
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#20 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

+12 RED twin naught with 3xArcher skeleton
its pretty much like Mjolnir already. just slower casting coz Mjol has 50dex


Mjolnir cant reduce Acid Bomb's cast time.... It's mostly fixed cast time is what makes it slow. Sacrament slave is nice to have when bombing.
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#21 RennaSaintsworth

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:00 PM

So, between Byeollungum and Red Naght sword, which one is better in term of damage?
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#22 Riakuta

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

So, between Byeollungum and Red Naght sword, which one is better in term of damage?


Byeollungum if you have 2 Expert Archer 5~6 Enchants, but only by a small portion.
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#23 ChellyXD

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

It'll be very hard to get 2 high Expert Archer enchants on a weapon, unless you're very lucky xD. There's also the +10% damage from normal monsters and players that it gives. It's best to stick with Red Twin Edge since getting a decent Byeollungum can be hard and expensive due to rarity and enchantment needs, and there won't be a big difference between the 2 swords in terms of damage I expect :}.
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#24 RennaSaintsworth

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:52 PM

I got a Byeollungum from High Weapon Box :V
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#25 DonatoX

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:14 AM

Still In Love with the Mjolnir.. ^^ My name is "Foo Fighter III"
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