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O mighty MvPs I will smite you with my hard, hard stick - Gene Weapon Discussion


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#26 michaeleeli

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:12 PM

Really? I thought it was a big different.

Both Lv4 Weapons, assuming the normal build, and on average you get Expert Archer 4x2 for byeog (being realistic)
Red Twin: 160 ATK, +30% ranged damage
Byeog: 150ATK, +16% ranged damage, +50% against boss type, +2 All Stat

Seems like byeog is waaaay better than Red twin in damage

I don't care about recieving 10% more from normal monsters & players since I won't be using it outside of MvP. If its TI'ing pvm or woe, I'll just use eden mace and glorious mace rofl ^^
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#27 DrAzzy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:23 AM

Funny you should mention this. I was looking at that just last night, and being like "Hey, I wonder if this is any good for bomb"

The main problem is that the +50% boss damage is like a +% card, not a +% ranged damage, so it doesn't effect as much of the damage.

There is, of course, no working and accurate calculator for acid bomb. I think I will do some tests tonight, maybe?
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#28 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:38 AM

There's only a handful of those Byeollungum in the market and if you do get them, expect to burn about 3k-4k WPE from enchanting just to get 2 decent expert archer mods.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 07 December 2012 - 07:38 AM.

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#29 asayuu

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

EA6/EA6/AK Hurricane Fury, the best weapon for acid bombing. By far. and tokens

Good luck making the enchants now that you know the best.

The Byellonguns are the second best if you have decent Expert Archer enchants, but just due to the fact you can carry a shield with it.
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#30 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:59 AM

Good luck tanking MvPs without a shield unless you got Painkiller (but I don't think it reduces your damage from monster skills).
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#31 asayuu

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

It reduces everything. But hurricane is for the top damage, and mainly when you are not the one taking it.

Think about it as a "party weapon".
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#32 DrAzzy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:33 AM

There's only a handful of those Byeollungum in the market and if you do get them, expect to burn about 3k-4k WPE from enchanting just to get 2 decent expert archer mods.

1) Byeollungum is not terribly hard to get.
2) I'm not sure how you came up with that figure. ~1/3rd of enchants give some sort of EA, so you should average 9 attempts at first enchant and 3 at second to get a 2x EA weapon. This would have a cost of 80kp (for the reset fruits) and 84kp for the coins = 164kp.

Now, within the EA enchants, the ratio seems to be around 4:4:2:1
So 2x EA 5 would be around 20k kafra points. But that'd a ridiculously high bar. 9+ levels of EA is ~4k KP - but thats still an unreasonable target imo - you'd be spending forever sitting there enchanting (but please do it and write down all your enchants, so I can refine these rate estimates!), 8+ levels is 1.2k kp, and 7+ levels would cost only 480kp.

Point is, enchanting won't cost 3-4k WPE (4-5k KP) unless you insist on getting EA 5+EA 4 or better. And actually, I just realized that my calculations overestimate the cost, because the 164 KP figure I was using was assuming you didn't dump EA 2 enchants. If you do, the numbers are 17k, 3.5k, 1k, and 460.

EA6/EA6/AK Hurricane Fury, the best weapon for acid bombing. By far. and tokens

Good luck making the enchants now that you know the best.

The Byellonguns are the second best if you have decent Expert Archer enchants, but just due to the fact you can carry a shield with it.


Lol, double EA 6. Hextuple client hard culverts on 2 chars per account every week for 6-12 months would give you enough ALFs for it, if the rate is similar to EA 5 from A class.
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#33 michaeleeli

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:21 PM

Ok...anyways...
I have access to hurricane fury, red twin, and byeog (just no moj lol ^^)
And I have 5k wpe to burn...and lets just say I end up with at least EA4 x2.

If I have a tanker with me at all times - I would go hurricane fury + EA4x2 + abysmall knight (I hear AK is only SLIGHTLY better than AS as if it's almost nothing, not worth the zeny vs damage wise? Is this true?)
If I am solo'ing (or at most have an AB with me), I would go byeog + EA4x2 + alice shield for max damage and max defence

Am I correct? We can agree that byeog > red twin? ^^;;
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#34 DrAzzy

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

Am I correct? We can agree that byeog > red twin? ^^;;


I don't feel confident in saying that. The difference between that and 3x AS RTE and enchanted Bye looks to be small.
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#35 Exvee

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

Getting double EA itself already pain (read:costly) for HF, I even just give up and open trade instead (my +7 AS HF single EA+ zeny = AS HF double EA)
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#36 DrAzzy

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

Getting double EA itself already pain (read:costly) for HF, I even just give up and open trade instead (my +7 AS HF single EA+ zeny = AS HF double EA)

416kp average to get 2x EA enchants on HF. This counts crapola low level EA's though.
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#37 ilovemilk

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 06:50 AM

I'm looking to trade my +9 EA 7 byeog for a +12 x3 Kingbird Red Twin if anyone's interested. I am still low level and need to the red twin for leveling. If not I will hold on to it til I am strong enough to MVP.
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#38 DonatoX

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

Can U guys post the Dmg's pic of those weapons for me?? I wanna see how good? cuz I have all those weapons but Not enchant yet.
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#39 kiefer

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:56 AM

Does enchanting removes the + on the weapon? and is there a chance that the weapon will break too?
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#40 Exvee

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:03 AM

Nope, that's why we "spam" it lol..
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#41 Havenn

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:11 AM

Anyone who says "Red Twins are far superior to Ele sword" does not own a +12 triple AS Red twin and a +12 triple AS ele sword - ELE SWORD > RED TWIN FOR ACID BOMB BUT NOT FOR CC.

Keep in mind, CC is way more effected by ATK - where bomb gets a good deal of influence from MATK as well - thus the 95 matk put you so far ahead on the ele sword, even though it is lv 3 vs lv4. Calculate it.


Yes, versus ANY creature ele sword is about 6-10k more dmg - if the traget is neutral, you're getting a 10% additional dmg.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________


Never tested Vercer with double AS+EAx2 - but +9 Byeollungum EA3/2 is slightly less damage that a Red twin for Acid bomb and about the exact same damage for CC.

A Byeo with EA6/5/4's only would be a very good bombing weapon.






Oh and don't waste your time on HF - the numbers will make you delusional to the actual damage of the bomb.

Edited by Havenn, 07 January 2013 - 06:14 AM.

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#42 DrAzzy

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:22 AM

Anyone who says "Red Twins are far superior to Ele sword" does not own a +12 triple AS Red twin and a +12 triple AS ele sword - ELE SWORD > RED TWIN FOR ACID BOMB BUT NOT FOR CC.

Keep in mind, CC is way more effected by ATK - where bomb gets a good deal of influence from MATK as well - thus the 95 matk put you so far ahead on the ele sword, even though it is lv 3 vs lv4. Calculate it.


Yes, versus ANY creature ele sword is about 6-10k more dmg - if the traget is neutral, you're getting a 10% additional dmg.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________


Never tested Vercer with double AS+EAx2 - but +9 Byeollungum EA3/2 is slightly less damage that a Red twin for Acid bomb and about the exact same damage for CC.

A Byeo with EA6/5/4's only would be a very good bombing weapon.






Oh and don't waste your time on HF - the numbers will make you delusional to the actual damage of the bomb.


My calculations (atk + matk)*0.07*vit are showing equal average damage between +12 RTE and +12 EleS, unless you get the 10%. But the variance is larger with the RTE.
Unless there's something wrong with my calculations - does weapon matk get an int bonus like weapon atk gets a str bonus?

At +12, Byeo 3/2 is like 4% better than RTE by my calculations, with more variation.


What do you mean about bomb with HF?
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#43 Scuba

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:32 AM

How much would the weapon size penalty affect damage? Would it be a full 25- 50%? Or would it only affect a small portion? ie: HF doing 100% on large and twin doing 75%.
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#44 Kasmalisus

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:47 AM

Anyone who says "Red Twins are far superior to Ele sword" does not own a +12 triple AS Red twin and a +12 triple AS ele sword - ELE SWORD > RED TWIN FOR ACID BOMB BUT NOT FOR CC.

Keep in mind, CC is way more effected by ATK - where bomb gets a good deal of influence from MATK as well - thus the 95 matk put you so far ahead on the ele sword, even though it is lv 3 vs lv4. Calculate it.


Yes, versus ANY creature ele sword is about 6-10k more dmg - if the traget is neutral, you're getting a 10% additional dmg.

I dunno... are you absolutely sure? I leveled to 150/50 on my gene with a +12 3xAS Ele Sword, and later made a +12 Red Edge with the same cards — and I'm pretty sure the red edge was giving better damage in areas of both CC and AB. And, AB wise, I think even a +12 2xAS carga does more than the ele. And in contrast to the carga, I was easily doing 10k more on large-size MVPs with the red edge than what that put out, despite the modifier.

I did lots of testing with ele vs. red edge on Sakray, and I just can't remember the ele ever being the better option.
I sold my ele sword yesterday, but if I'm needed to do testing (assuming nobody else has access to an ele and red edge at 12), I can see about borrowing it from the buyer real quick to get some screenshots, considering we pretty much befriended each other.
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#45 Havenn

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

From what I've tested with a +9 HF EA3/3 the damage is poor in comparison to a +9~12 red twin/ele sword/byeoEA2/3.....I don't think I've ever noticed the size mod to test so I will have to do that.

(Side note: I only have maxed sword mastery, not axe mastery and that may be the reason this dmg is awful but 30 atk seems faint in comparison to the 150+ from the HF itself)

I really need to +12 my byeo to test, but at this time it was pulling similar damage to RTE and decided it would be a second genetic wep since the dmg was so similar. I'm not sure how heavily impacted matk is on bomb, but with what I've seen, I only pull similar or more damage than RTE. I do agree though they are so close with the variable AB damage it's almost not even worth having both lol. CC damage with ele sword is not very good tho...



Oh, and just noticed Vecer is lv3 so I think that's out of the question for enchants
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#46 DrAzzy

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:14 AM

Size Mod effects only the weapon attack portion, as usual.
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#47 Scuba

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

Size Mod effects only the weapon attack portion, as usual.


In short, negligible?
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#48 kiefer

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:31 AM

You can use a triple AS scalpel against small mvps and it will do a little more damage than AS HF.
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#49 Exvee

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:31 AM

Really, 225k damage Acid Bomb on HF is a bad number? Lol, I know I'm not expert to Genetic but seeing over 200k damage is already high to me. The only reason I prefer HF is because people sell it lot cheaper.
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#50 DrAzzy

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:36 AM

Really, 225k damage Acid Bomb on HF is a bad number? Lol, I know I'm not expert to Genetic but seeing over 200k damage is already high to me. The only reason I prefer HF is because people sell it lot cheaper.

Depends what you're bombing....
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