Problems of ROSE

Indeed. I too was *knocked back* in the old forum days, over something else. Did it deter me?...nope, it just made me all the more determined.

p.s allbeit under different conditions. I finally did get what i asked for
The moral to this story, dont ever give up.

you got cm? lol

And devs are the main problem with Rose. They think they're always right and players are selfish and wrong most of the time. They want to develop Rose one way and players want it some other way. They want money, players want content, etc.

I can see both sides points from these pictures
(yours and gravitys)

I think biggest issue was (sorry I was too lazy to read, I just watched pictures and glanced at the descriptions) that you submitted these as next tier weapons
(please, correct me if I am wrong)
in such way they don't fit too well

most of these have way too high polycount to be used in Rose the way they are made (it can be fixed with using detailed textures instead of gazillion of polys)

it is true that transformers - spacy scifi gear looks strange in Rose, but IM items are a way to introduce "randomness" into game

anyway, as JB said before - don't give up
don't have a emotional attachment to your old work stuff and be ready for tons of bad comments (it's part of the learning/creative process) and even if you have more than 20 years of experience in field of design/art/gfx/whatever you will always have a chance to get lousy comments although you think it is the masterpiece
most of the time it just comes down to personal taste

so... about your models, take another look at them, compare them to what is currently in game or even better, compare them to old original stuff and try to improve your stuff
also, re-submitting them with another purpose might give you a "green light" this or next time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-VMTIPwk74

Yes after looking at a few of the items there's 1 that needs redesign, 1 that needs less poly [ and btw that wand was around 45k poly, the avg for rose is around 1k-35k before it causes issues just depends on the model in question.] and the sword [Divine Offender] was the basis of a new sword i made, and everyone agreed that it was amazing [another higher* poly, however it didn't exceed 100k poly with is the range limit on most occasions for ROSE's ZnZin engine. yes i know what game engine ROSE uses] and the shield needed to simply be toned down of the shine, which was never going to be added because it was for graphical effect of the screen shot]

So going over them they needed tweeking, but not a complete dismissal especially when Transformer, Ninja Gaiden, Naruto etc were just added along with Epic that are so over sized they move/swing into the ground map, something that was frowned upon in day 1 of user submissions.

at either rate its the point, that the Arua Wand, Vassil Staff [which looks suprisingly like the new epic staff using the "blades" around a halo] MC313 looks like a non-smashed version of the new epic gun, Mighty Avenger and Divine Offender are all within reason for ROSE style ex.

Arua Wand matches perfectly with the Orleon Set
Vassil Staff matches perfectly with the Black set from lower levels
Divine Offender matches perfectly with the Obsidian Armor
MC313 and Mighty Avenger match perfectly with the Mana fusion suit for dealers, only red instead of green, however i think they might have been red, or there was a red dealer suit at some point.
Zuly shield was just an offhand that I'd hoped would have been used to dealer stats or IM shield.

Edited by Feuer, 09 July 2011 - 11:07 PM.

I'd really like to see the Arua Wand implemented, it doesn't stray away from Rose style and it is unique looking.

God i love this xD

i want it

Edited by tythemuss, 09 July 2011 - 09:17 PM.

the avg for rose is around 1k-35k just depends.]

highest poly used on single ZMS is

8.5k and it is for some map mesh

highest poly used on a weapon part is 2k
highest poly used on a character part is 1.75k
highest poly used on a npc part is 3.2k
highest poly used on a pat part is 1.3k

so...
where did you find this "35k" info?

We're glad to have you back on the force, PickUp

Together, I'm sure we can create an idea simple enough to get into the developers mind.

I was planning on giving them the simple idea of : Looking at the Proposals and Suggestions section:

Think it's simple? Or far to complex for these geniuses?

highest poly used on single ZMS is

8.5k and it is for some map mesh

highest poly used on a weapon part is 2k
highest poly used on a character part is 1.75k
highest poly used on a npc part is 3.2k
highest poly used on a pat part is 1.3k

so...
where did you find this "35k" info?

35k before it causes issue with rose* and 100k before the ZnZin engine just doesn't want to handle it.

ill have to edit that

Edited by Feuer, 09 July 2011 - 11:08 PM.

We're glad to have you back on the force, PickUp

Together, I'm sure we can create an idea simple enough to get into the developers mind.

I was planning on giving them the simple idea of : Looking at the Proposals and Suggestions section:

Think it's simple? Or far to complex for these geniuses?

We might have to completely recode the brains of our developers to get them look at the Proposals and Suggestions section.

We might have to completely recode the brains of our developers to get them look at the Proposals and Suggestions section.

Or simply put a thread with a link to the proposal suggestion, theirs no way they can miss that on update day, right?

I'm going to see how much of 1 map i can design in 1 night, roughly 4 hours, no textures just meshes. lets see how this goes

Or simply put a thread with a link to the proposal suggestion, theirs no way they can miss that on update day, right?

Seb i have a question... Say someone told u an idea like piggoesquack BUT you keeped changing it and changing it into something that wouldnt of bin piggoesquack in a million years so its like piggoesquack gets changed into doggoesquack- dogquacksloud - donkeyLaughsLoud - DonkeyJumpsHigh to something that ends up being like ILikeToDrinkChinesePeoplesDonkeySneeze? Would that be ur own idea or someone elses,but uhad no idea that u were just changing someone elses idea into what u have just made O.o

Edit: moved to clan chat

Edited by tythemuss, 10 July 2011 - 12:00 AM.

Well i got tired after about 2 hours lol cause its late.

heres one i got so far



mind you i threw up for textures, those wouldn't be the real thing lol.

Edited by Feuer, 10 July 2011 - 01:31 AM.

Well if it only took you 2 hours to create that I would love to know where the dev's are going wrong.

Well if it only took you 2 hours to create that I would love to know where the dev's are going wrong.

The problem is lack* of going, you cant even go wrong when you dont try

new "planet" is not just about putting up few maps

you have to make:
new NPCs - models, textures, animations
new monsters - models, textures, animations, effects
new items - models, textures
new models for new maps - models, textures, effects

and what would be most important - NEW FEATURES

if they just add bunch of wasteland maps (like they did with Orlo) it won't do any good (but let's say that was part of planets features)
unless you would like to see some patched up wannabe content, new set of armors and weapons that will become old in a week and "go kill 100000 pigs for 1 exp" quests
they have to add some new stuff (coding) to be able to create some new and unique quests that would make it worth leveling and doing whatever quests you would have to do to reach those areas
what would be nice to see is some new map layouts, not just plain old "ground with few bumps" and few meshes thrown away here and there

for example (random googled concept art image):




@Feuer what programs you use(d)?

Edited by Xenobite, 10 July 2011 - 03:24 AM.

Perhaps some cool looking item(s) for large amount of zulie sold by a random NPC in Junon.

Hey! That's mine! LOL. Good job on this. But I have no faith that they will actually read this as their percentage of posts in user topics must be under 1%.
It's gonna be hard to get some good things done. I do believe it's possible for this game and can't wait for something really AWESOME !

I used Cinema 4D Release 11.5

And that concept art is strikeingly similar to the effect i was talking about making the underground parts of Karkia looking like, the map above is where visitors would land on the surface, and do a small info/quest with an npc by the crystal, in order to breath in the Karkian Atmosphere underground, they'll teach you a passive skill.

As for that work load its not as monumental as you might first think it is. When you design the flow goes like this
1 create mesh/model
2 texture / color it
3 rig it with bones and joints [incredibly easy in cinema 4D aslong as you know how]
4 create the animation files using keyframing etc or however your program works.
5 export animation, texture, and mesh. Convert texture and mesh to mesh=ZMS texture=DDS, and animation file i forget the extention.

but thats for a NPC. Adding Dialog is simple aswell

In the NPC list [ i cant remember if this is a VFS or some other file ext used in the ZnZin engine im sure it is] is basically a list of cells, like excel or a database table
each line with a number, dialog, name, options etc.
Simple add a new line, type in the required dialog such as "Hello" >.> and save it.

Next questing
I've never done it for rose but principly your quest will
1 have a name
2 a value / ID
3 condition[s] such as required_item_id=## | required_item_amount=## etc. plug those in real fast.

now you have a fully animated, colored, operational NPC that gives a quest.

maps, just a model easy mode just takes patience coloring it.
Items, that's equally as easy as a map.
map objects, i made crystals and coral trees on that map if you look closely.

Overall I could make up a quest for each NPC, make the NPC, animate it, stick it on the map[s] i made, for the planet i designed, and "code" the questing for it all in less than a year.

links to my novice and older submissions

http://forums.roseon...osts=31&start=1
http://forums.roseon...osts=16&start=1
http://forums.roseon...osts=44&start=1
http://forums.roseon...osts=19&start=1
http://forums.roseon...posts=8&start=1
http://forums.roseon...osts=11&start=1

Your updated version of the vassil staff looks a lot like the shattered hope. I bet they copied it off you because they were lazy.


I loved every single one of them, along with that map you created. You do as much in 2 hours that it takes gravity 3 weeks to do. I think you should be hired^^ or teach me your ways.

Edited by bluehell, 10 July 2011 - 05:20 AM.

Overall I could make up a quest for each NPC, make the NPC, animate it, stick it on the map[s] i made, for the planet i designed, and "code" the questing for it all in less than a year.

you got cm? lol

And devs are the main problem with Rose. They think they're always right and players are selfish and wrong most of the time. They want to develop Rose one way and players want it some other way. They want money, players want content, etc.

Noooo lol, but im not dead yet either
Theres an order to things. You see, at home, im always right, unless its a Sunday. Then i allow him indoors to be right for just that one day.
I have seen and im sure you have seen, the Devs here think they were right and then do a total U-Turn. Its a rarity, but it has happened.

On those occasions, that says to me not only do they screw up and make alot of us mad, but they do try to make amends and listen
to their customers. I dont think they are as blinkered as they appear at times. So when i post a comment directed to them, i carry on regardless and assume they are
reading what we say. Occasionally i see an acknowledgement, One example is a few weeks ago when Genesis posted back to me in forums, with the words "lets make it happen!!"
Im going to hold you to that comment Genesis! or i eat your soul

Im not surprised by, Gravity want to make money, they are a business afterall. Players want content, sure we do. Pacman gets boring. Somehow and in some way a common ground needs to be found.
I dont think it can be found by QQ with caps lock and insulting the very people we want to be improving the game for us.
Pick up, has the right approach. Its irrelevant if i agree with what he has said. The way he is saying it, makes me want to sit and read all of what has been said.

I read about Item Mall and how alot of people say they hate the outfits in there(Warp outfits and Transformer) as examples.
Yet when i walk around ingame, i see lots of customers have bought them. Whats that aboot??! Have they all gone through some time vortex and lost all fashion sense?
May Aura have mercy on our souls.
..... Or is it a case of, the Devs are actually supplying to a demand? which then makes me want to say, if they are supplying to what appears to be a demand, since players are buying, then erm whats the problem here?
Because its not rose related? Some players dont care about that, is how it looks to me.
I dont think that can be fixed

Well if it only took you 2 hours to create that I would love to know where the dev's are going wrong.

true true

Recently I came across some threads complaining about ROSE and, well... about ROSE, but none of them really stated what are the problems, so I decided to try to complile a list of ROSE's current problems.
These are mostly the most recent complaints I found across the forums.

• Inflation: ROSE's economy is suffering from a gigantic inflation. The inflation combined with the zulie cap on trades and vend shops cause a lot of scams, because some items have greater value than the current culie cap. Therefore increasing the zulie cap is unavoidable.
  Possible solution: Introducing "money sinks" to remove some zulie from the game could help. Perhaps some cool looking item(s) for large amount of zulie sold by a random NPC in Junon. Perhaps some adjustments to the drop tables could also help.
  
  Money sinks? really? I don't think it would work.... honestly... there is no way to stop inflation... This incredibly long double drop period though is dropping prices.... unfortunately it's mainly dropping the buy prices... Like honestly though, that idea like... apply that to the real world - people in real life have to much money, lets make something some people will find cool, but most people probably wont, and make it seriously expensive so the rich people spend their money on it and therefor have less money
  
• Zulie cap: Due to the inflation mentioned above people these days can easily stock more zulie than the zulie cap and many items are valued over the trade/vend price cap. This is a source of scam and therefore bad for the game.
  Possible solution: Increase the zulie/trade/vend cap.
  
  cap needs to be increased, bad.
  
• Item Mall vs In-game content: Lately there has been an excess focus on Item Mall content and not so much on in-game content. Orlo part 2 was out for like a half year, and there was still no mention of the final chapter of Orlo. Zeppelin has also mentioned those "Orlo CG's" which should've arrived not long after Orlo 2, but I still can't see them. Bug fixes are cool, but it would be cooler if it wasn't only Item Mall along them.
  Possible solution: More focus on in-game content. Inform players about the state of "in development" contents such as Orlo 3 and Orlo CG.
  
  
• Quality of Item Mall content: Back in the old forums when the 3D creation section started I saw Calanor (or someone) refuse an user created item, because it was "not enough ROSE style", but nowadays when transformers are running around Junon Polis you really can't tell what's the so called "ROSE style". What happened here? Seriously... Transformers?! Did the developers really ran out of creativity? Not just those, but those alien guys... Pogo and his friends...
  Possible solution: Keep Item Mall stuff more on the "ROSE style".
  
  I like mi bumbleebee costume ._.
  
  
• Quality of In-Game content: As far as I could observe: the dev team's concept of content is limited to: new maps, new mobs, new gear. In a world where 60% of the maps and items are not used it's safe to say that we have enough of each of them. What we lack of is stuff like hard instances, Clan Wars, random in-game events, quests, a more interesting pvp and other stuff...
  Other than that... The time we had to wait between Orlo 1 and Orlo 2 was like a whole year. We waited a year for ONE city which is barely visited by anyone and some quests. I for one expected that there would be something special, something new, but I was wrong. One year wasted for an empty city, because nothing's there to draw the players there.
  Possible solution: Adding some fun random in-game events. Reintroducing Clan Wars (which was also mentioned to be in development). Adding some instances with hard and challenging bosses. Adding some more interesting pvp area or beefing the current ones such as the very underused Oblivion Temple Campgrounds.
  
  
  
• Balance of gems: There seems to be a horrible imbalance between gems. It seems like that the only good gem currently is Diamond followed by Topaz for clerics.
  Possible solution: Adjusting the bonus stats given by gems.
  
  I think the gems are fine.... changing them now would alter gameplay way to much.
  
• Lack of feedback on suggestions: This, especially this gives us the feelings that the development team doesn't give a poo about our suggestions. A simple yes or no would at least give us the feeling that they actually care...
  Possible solution: More feedback from the devs on our suggestions.
  
  
• Story: The last addition to the so called hero quest was like... centuries ago and since then, us (the story freaks) still wait till we can finally complete that riddle!
  Possible solution: Continue the hero quest.
  
  
• Quests & NPC dialogues: Not everyone can understand english well, for them it is often hard to navigate in the NPC dialogue to accept a quest, apart of that, most players are lazy, so they dislike reading.
  Possible solution: Adding a quest marker to the option in an NPC dialogue which would eventually lead to a quest.
  
  
• Crafting & Artisans: With Union gear and re-roll hammers around the only useful thing artisans can craft are gems or pots, and occassionally Castle Gears.
  Possible solution: Either improving the current crafted gear (like turning them into sets), or adding new crafting recipes which are better and require items that are only obtainable from specific places like bosses _{or unions}.

These are only some thing I could think of. Post more things if you got them.

There's more I wanted to add to your post but i just too tired/lazzy/don't care.

Well if it only took you 2 hours to create that I would love to know where the dev's are going wrong.

They probably spent their time showing off their new Ferrari which they got with all the money they get from Item Mall.

Canehda if gems are fine why does a D7 cost 3x as much as an P7, R7 or G7?

Edited by Phish, 10 July 2011 - 11:33 AM.

Canehda if gems are fine why does a D7 cost 3x as much as an P7, R7 or G7?

just because a gem is more sought out then another gem doesn't mean you should make it less powerfull/less desirable.

if they nerf gems, I'd b really upset.

(I mearly use d7's for a buffset anyway...)