169 replies to this topic

[Cer89]

If you think assassins should never be able to transform into things that look like an alien you're greatly mistaken. Why don't you just go make your own game then?

I don't want to continue this since you strongly believe I'm trolling you or spamming but seriously read over what you posted about the Dev's agreeing to something and tell me what it really means, I will tell you what I think it meant since it was not fully thought out.
Just like when you misunderstood me when I was giving an example towards what people do in the game being assassin such as PvP , so go ahead and accuse me for something you greatly contradict yourself in. I apologize if you think I was trolling you, I honestly believe Pinocchio is a cute doll and by no means offensive, was another way of telling you to cool down that's all.

Sorry to anyone for the disruption I may have caused, I just don't think to justify one person over everyone. Thank You.

[ZeroTigress]

The RO1 version of Shadow Form is called "Shadow Transformation" and by definition has a completely different use than what is meant for in RO2. Try harder next time.

Why don't you actually try to read the iRO Wiki page? The original name of the skill is SHADOW FORM; it was localized as Shadow Formation for our server, so you're still wrong in that regard. It doesn't matter that it works differently in RO compared to the RO2 version, the fact is that the original Shadow Form doesn't change the caster's appearance. We just want it to work like that for our Shadow Form.

Just because you don't give a crap about your character's appearance, that doesn't mean the rest of us should accept it as is. This thread was created for a reason and that reason is that the concept of Shadow Form that the developers came up for RO2's Assassins downright SUCK. What's the point of letting us create our own characters if the developers are just going to overwrite what we've worked for with an unappealing sprite? They might as well tell us at the character creation screen:

HEY, if you're going to go Assassin, don't bother customizing your hair, eyes, or anything else for that matter because you're all going to look like STUPID WOLF THINGS.

[Rhint]

Why don't you actually try to read the iRO Wiki page? The original name of the skill is SHADOW FORM; it was localized as Shadow Formation for our server, so you're still wrong in that regard. It doesn't matter that it works differently in RO compared to the RO2 version, the fact is that the original Shadow Form doesn't change the caster's appearance. We just want it to work like that for our Shadow Form.

Just because you don't give a crap about your character's appearance, that doesn't mean the rest of us should accept it as is. This thread was created for a reason and that reason is that the concept of Shadow Form that the developers came up for RO2's Assassins downright SUCK. What's the point of letting us create our own characters if the developers are just going to overwrite what we've worked for with an unappealing sprite? They might as well tell us at the character creation screen:

HEY, if you're going to go Assassin, don't bother customizing your hair, eyes, or anything else for that matter because you're all going to look like STUPID WOLF THINGS.

This. Shadowform removes all customization, which is wholly unacceptable.

[Cer89]

Why don't you actually try to read the iRO Wiki page? The original name of the skill is SHADOW FORM; it was localized as Shadow Formation for our server, so you're still wrong in that regard. It doesn't matter that it works differently in RO compared to the RO2 version, the fact is that the original Shadow Form doesn't change the caster's appearance. We just want it to work like that for our Shadow Form.

Just because you don't give a crap about your character's appearance, that doesn't mean the rest of us should accept it as is. This thread was created for a reason and that reason is that the concept of Shadow Form that the developers came up for RO2's Assassins downright SUCK. What's the point of letting us create our own characters if the developers are just going to overwrite what we've worked for with an unappealing sprite? They might as well tell us at the character creation screen:

HEY, if you're going to go Assassin, don't bother customizing your hair, eyes, or anything else for that matter because you're all going to look like STUPID WOLF THINGS.

For the record, I am clearly replying to ZeroTigress at this point:

The irowiki pages also states that it is out of date so where do you get that the skill is called "shadow form" within the skill description it DOES mention shadow form but only because it's describing the skill's use...the description has nothing to do with transforming unlike RO2 where you become quicker and stronger, so the wolf/alien like appearance justifies it. Would rather not repeat myself on the rest but that's about it for that.

Now the fact that you are saying I don't give a crap just nulls the fact I am replying to you now. You think if I didn't care, I would talk about my opinion knowing someone would bash on me? No, I would rather much not post at all which is what i was telling one guy who started bashing on me for thinking there's nothing wrong with shadowform in RO2 or other games... wait no, just RO2!. Unfortunetely he thinks I play all the MMO's or something, so what can I say? and nothing I did, just gave him my thoughts on it and that I had a right to.

Beastmaster also has a transforming scenerio because that's what they do in this game, what hapens to their costumes?? in RO1 were the game was 2D you never see anything at all transforming being a main skill. So what's wrong with it here? Did they have BeastMasters in RO1? If you're that fed up with looks then go play wow, since there you can show off your looks with transmogs.

Either way I was partially agreeing with the suggestions while saying they're not really needed and why. There are other things they could do other than have a toggle option but even if things like xmog or other things I could suggest won't really concern my playstyle as it is now. That is all, you didn't need to take my opinion to another level like the someone else has too. Sorry if you're easily offended, that's not my fault honestly.

[Cer89]

This. Shadowform removes all customization, which is wholly unacceptable.

So does Bear form as a BeastMaster... what if i dont want to be a bear? or look like the ones they made for us? these are all premium options at the most and I don't really care about spending money to change appearance on something that by default should be there. Which I don't really see a problem with it as is right now

[Rhint]

This will be my only response on bear form because this thread is about shadowform and you're strawmanning. I don't think any class should spend the majority of their time transformed unless they're druids and that form has gear models made specifically for it, for every armor type.

[ZeroTigress]

We're not here to discuss Beastmasters, we're here to discuss Assassins. (Regardless, I'm pretty sure Beastmaster players are advocating for an on/off toggle for themselves, too.) Assassins have never been a were-animal job class and never should be so it boggles the mind why the developers would make them this way in RO2.

As I've already mentioned earlier in this thread:

not everyone wants to play a character that looks like everyone else. In RO1, that's unavoidable due to the nature of the sprites, but here in RO2 where we have more freedom to differentiate our characters, Shadow Form is pretty much a slap in the face.

The concept and story for Shadow Form overall just sucks. I'd rather get a complete revamp of the Assassin job change quests that give me replacement skills that do the same effects without forcing me to transform at all. They took a popular job class from RO and made it lame in RO2. That is why we're upset.

[Cer89]

After this I probably won't comment further on this topic.

@ZeroTigress: You think that people should know about assassins not creating a customized character because later it will look like a wolf thing, Then why would you create an Assassin in the first place knowing it will transform?
It's pure sillyness if you ask me.
Like I told Rhint, all he had to do was talk about his poll and move on, instead he was putting everyone's ideas down, because voting is all you can do about change tbh. Discussing peoples ideas is not part of the topic, it's like saying lets discuss Rhint's bann for example, which you can't really do in any forum or game.

@Rhint I was never disagreeing with your idea, just saying it was not really needed. Some people honestly don't care that assassin have to look like a wolf thing most of the time. But you told me if I wanted a transforming class to play a BM which is not right at all. If you feel that strongly about it throw a riot or start a poll, no need to bash me for my own opinion. that is all you need to know. Thank You.

[Cer89]

I took the bait. Dumb on my part.

Dude, I messaged you when you started bashing me and accusing me of things. Then after your third post i decided to read through the whole forum and came to the assumption you were starting drama.

If you feel like I was bashing you then why would you reply back? I told you in the message it was a misunderstanding. You are really making it personal now.

Edit: You think your slick now? deleting your last comment and putting "I took the bait, dumb on my part" with the OP saying "I haven't bashed you at all, but you have been bashing me. If you continue to try to make this personal, I'm going to report you" Will not help you report me any much better. Try harder next time you Troll.

Edited by Cer89, 28 May 2013 - 11:19 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

I play an Assassin because that's what I played in RO and I loved it. Shadow Form is simply a part of RO2's Assassin I do not like and seeing as how they've changed some job classes in RO dramatically, I'm hoping for the same to be done for RO2's Assassin because it deserves to be on par with RO's Assassin in that it shouldn't have to transform to become stronger.

I may have known that Shadow Form will change my sprite, but newcomers who are just entering the game and wanting to become an Assassin without researching it will be upset after acquiring Shadow Form. What would you say to those people who spent all that time to make their Assassin just to be disappointed that they will be spending all their time in an ugly Shadow Form? Delete and make a Rogue? Some people will just roll over and accept it, but those of us who are passionate about being Ragnarok Assassins aren't going to put up with it.

It's as the saying goes, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil." The more noise we make about this, the more likely the developers will listen. This thread is made for people who do not like Shadow Form and want to see it changed. If you honestly don't care to see it changed and are fine with it, then why bother posting in this thread at all? All you're doing is upsetting the people who actually do want change.

[Cer89]

I play an Assassin because that's what I played in RO and I loved it. Shadow Form is simply a part of RO2's Assassin I do not like and seeing as how they've changed some job classes in RO dramatically, I'm hoping for the same to be done for RO2's Assassin because it deserves to be on par with RO's Assassin in that it shouldn't have to transform to become stronger.

I may have known that Shadow Form will change my sprite, but newcomers who are just entering the game and wanting to become an Assassin without researching it will be upset after acquiring Shadow Form. What would you say to those people who spent all that time to make their Assassin just to be disappointed that they will be spending all their time in an ugly Shadow Form? Delete and make a Rogue? Some people will just roll over and accept it, but those of us who are passionate about being Ragnarok Assassins aren't going to put up with it.

It's as the saying goes, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil." The more noise we make about this, the more likely the developers will listen. This thread is made for people who do not like Shadow Form and want to see it changed. If you honestly don't care to see it changed and are fine with it, then why bother posting in this thread at all? All you're doing is upsetting the people who actually do want change.

Just to clarify sometihng , I already told your friend Rhint that I don't mind change. I understand everything you just said but basically you are like the fifth wheel here because I have already made it clear that he should just start a poll since that's the only way change will be made, is this a poll? NO

This is a topic where the op is basically talking about ideas because he is one of the people who don't like the wolf like appearance. So like Rhint who has been criticising people for their ideas on new appearance I just said they weren't needed but go and make your poll. I said your suggestions were good quote for quote. If you infered something else again, that's not my fault.

Thanks for all your attention, I think I'll go jump off a bridge now.

Edited by Cer89, 28 May 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote to get so much attention.

When will people learn looks aren't everything in a game? Just the other day people argued with me in-game about Ro2 not having the best graphics, which they claim they don't care about, Ok? I agree that these are great suggestions but the fact that changes need to be made in the first place to accommodate some payers visual needs is funny as nobody's business to me. I still don't understand why the phantom cape was so expensive, it's mainly for looks because people wanted to look like an Asian anime star... if I'm not mistaken. In colo, there's a lot of benefits to being in shadow form, people can't tell which sin is who, the element of surprise, unless you're trying to find your sin friend because your teaming up in colo.... in which case someone should tell you colo is a Free-For-All type of PvP. Personally, I love my sin, in whatever form it may be, if it looks Alien most of the time so be it! For those arguing about personal opinion, this is not Ro1 or McDonalds, lol.

That last bolded line is what gives off the impression you don't care whether they change it or not.

Edited by ZeroTigress, 28 May 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[Cer89]

You edited "impression" from something else there lol, luckily i SS it just in-case.

FYI you are saying i give off an "impression" so you're basically assuming something wrong of me.

in response to the bold letters, just because I put funny in there does not mean im trolling the thread.
I only meant to say that after a few weeks of the NA version being out people at WP all of sudden start bombing the threads and now the in-game chat about Shadowform. So what if i feel that it's not needed and funny that it's happening in the first place? Again, I know not what you infer.

[Rhint]

I play an Assassin because that's what I played in RO and I loved it. Shadow Form is simply a part of RO2's Assassin I do not like and seeing as how they've changed some job classes in RO dramatically, I'm hoping for the same to be done for RO2's Assassin because it deserves to be on par with RO's Assassin in that it shouldn't have to transform to become stronger.

To get back on topic, it isn't like assassin is a druid. It's a guy who is trained to kill secretly. So why the doggy morph? Why cover up our gear with it? It's a design oversight, and a big one for those who are playing this game because of nostalgia felt for the first one.

Edited by Rhint, 28 May 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[Zanbee]

Please stay on topic and please do not post anything that might cause an argument. Any further arguing will cause the closing of this thread.
Thanks.

[Lawful]

When I cracked out on RO back in the day, my main character was an Assassin. I was really excited to bring him back to life in RO2, but when I heard about this dreaded shadow form, I had to do a search online to find a picture of it.



When I finally found one, I understood why every post I've seen on the subject is negative. I can't find a single instance of someone appreciating it. I'm not sure sure I want to bring my Assissin back now if that's all I have to look forward to.

I had lv99 cross in RO, the only reason why i wanted to play Sin in Ro2 is cause i saw the shadow form and i loved it, looks amazing, otherwise i would have picked sage as my primary class.

[4196130101022707487]

To get back on topic, it isn't like assassin is a druid. It's a guy who is trained to kill secretly. So why the doggy morph? Why cover up our gear with it? It's a design oversight, and a big one for those who are playing this game because of nostalgia felt for the first one.

It is symbolism. An ultimate "triumph" from your training. You get posessed by some evil being and you learn to keep it in check and call upon it at will showing your "power". It was kinda like Ashley in Wild Arms 2. Lord Blazer is the Lord of all demons.. he was the one that started the great blaze, and during the story he posesses Ashley and offers him power hoping to taint and corrupt him for a proper host. Ashley obtains use of the ability to become Knight Blazer giving him amazing strength and otherwordly powers. During the course of the game Lord Blazer attempts multiple times to assert full dominance over Ashley in Blazer form with absolutely no success. Ashley is then viewed as "powerful" for it as he is the one in control. We have the same display here.

I honestly hate the form as it just feels.. weak. As a cooldown skill I could see it working.. but I'm just not fond of all the time I spent making my character, and growing with them on their journey that I have to completely forsake my attachment to "look cool" as some wolf beast. I want to see the character I made. I want to enjoy the armor designs for assassins. (Though I wish they'd get rid of those stupid claws and give us actual Katar.) A toggle option that just removes the form entirely for those of us who don't want it, or a toggle option that gives us some little smoke waves around us.. or even our weapons so it at least lets people see we have it activated would be great.

[Rhint]

It is symbolism. An ultimate "triumph" from your training. You get posessed by some evil being and you learn to keep it in check and call upon it at will showing your "power". It was kinda like Ashley in Wild Arms 2. Lord Blazer is the Lord of all demons.. he was the one that started the great blaze, and during the story he posesses Ashley and offers him power hoping to taint and corrupt him for a proper host. Ashley obtains use of the ability to become Knight Blazer giving him amazing strength and otherwordly powers. During the course of the game Lord Blazer attempts multiple times to assert full dominance over Ashley in Blazer form with absolutely no success. Ashley is then viewed as "powerful" for it as he is the one in control. We have the same display here.

I honestly hate the form as it just feels.. weak. As a cooldown skill I could see it working.. but I'm just not fond of all the time I spent making my character, and growing with them on their journey that I have to completely forsake my attachment to "look cool" as some wolf beast. I want to see the character I made. I want to enjoy the armor designs for assassins. (Though I wish they'd get rid of those stupid claws and give us actual Katar.) A toggle option that just removes the form entirely for those of us who don't want it, or a toggle option that gives us some little smoke waves around us.. or even our weapons so it at least lets people see we have it activated would be great.

I agree with your second paragraph. As for your first, it's a trope, sure, but it's also a trope that when a person is forced to transform, they aren't in control. And that's honestly how it feels. Transform or gimp yourself.

[Ihm]

I agree, Shadow Form feels week, it should be +100% attack rather than +30%, because we're not already the strongest DPS out there...

[sephiroso]

I agree with your second paragraph. As for your first, it's a trope, sure, but it's also a trope that when a person is forced to transform, they aren't in control. And that's honestly how it feels. Transform or gimp yourself.

you are in control. it is what defines the class. if you do not transform, you're not being the best you can be. its that simple. there is an assumed lore so to speak based around all the classes. its like going beastmaster and refusing to change to your animal spirit. why the hell did you go beastmaster in the first place then?

I agree, Shadow Form feels week, it should be +100% attack rather than +30%, because we're not already the strongest DPS out there...

you can't get the best of all worlds. understand what it means to balance classes. assassins are the fastest beings in the game hands down. no one can touch them when it comes to speed. if they also did as much dps as rangers/rogues they'd be overpowered.

the only dps class imo that should be complaining about not having enough dmg is wizards cause wizards get shafted in all their orifices.

Edited by sephiroso, 30 May 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[Ihm]

you can't get the best of all worlds. understand what it means to balance classes. assassins are the fastest beings in the game hands down. no one can touch them when it comes to speed. if they also did as much dps as rangers/rogues they'd be overpowered.

the only dps class imo that should be complaining about not having enough dmg is wizards cause wizards get shafted in all their orifices.

You missed my sarcasm sorry... I guess it's not that apparent on the internet.

Assassin is the highest DPS job in the game atm due to the large boost from Shadow Form.

Woosh...

[Rhint]

you are in control. it is what defines the class. if you do not transform, you're not being the best you can be. its that simple. there is an assumed lore so to speak based around all the classes. its like going beastmaster and refusing to change to your animal spirit. why the hell did you go beastmaster in the first place then?

I can't and won't speak for Beastmaster because I didn't play it in RO1, but in RO1 assassin was an assassin, not a shadow were wolf unicorn. This is RO2. The sequel to RO1. It uses classes from RO1. So why change ? It doesn't even hint that it's going to change anything. Eremes isn't a shadow were wolf unicorn and he's the iconic character for the class. You don't see any assassins (pre level 37, at least) who are shadow were wolf unicorns. So "why roll assassin if you don't want to be a shadow were wolf unicorn" doesn't hold water at all.

[sephiroso]

I can't and won't speak for Beastmaster because I didn't play it in RO1, but in RO1 assassin was an assassin, not a shadow were wolf unicorn. This is RO2. The sequel to RO1. It uses classes from RO1. So why change ? It doesn't even hint that it's going to change anything. Eremes isn't a shadow were wolf unicorn and he's the iconic character for the class. You don't see any assassins (pre level 37, at least) who are shadow were wolf unicorns. So "why roll assassin if you don't want to be a shadow were wolf unicorn" doesn't hold water at all.

First off Eremes isn't a player character. He was an MVP in RO1 so if you're so intent on keeping the same as RO1 then why the-_- can we talk and chill with Eremes instead of killing him? Why are cards so -_-ty compared to RO1's cards. Why are the graphics so different. Why this, why that. Do you realize how stupid you sound?

This is the game you're playing. Get used to it. Cause its not gonna revert back to RO1.

[Mondaiji]

you are in control. it is what defines the class. if you do not transform, you're not being the best you can be. its that simple. there is an assumed lore so to speak based around all the classes. its like going beastmaster and refusing to change to your animal spirit. why the hell did you go beastmaster in the first place then?

...

I disagree. If I have to transform to some demonic dog, that means that I'm not controlling it, because I let his appearance take control of mine. Transformation means loss of control. If you control that power, you would be able to call for it without any transformation. The only thing you control is it's power it gives, the +30% STR and MS buff(maxed).

As for beastmasters:

Beastmasters build upon their bond with nature by utilizing the powerful strength of animals to improve their physical strength. Some even become so powerful that they are able to take on the form of these feral beasts and tear through crowds of enemies. - http://www.playragnarok2.com/

I want to highlight the word "bond". Forming a bond with the nature and utilizing the power of an animal and taking its form is "acceptance". It's another world. However, I didn't play beastmaster yet and just read about whats written about them on the playragnarok2 page. Correct me if I got it wrong~

I still prefer dancer/bard (¬､¬)
__

Like Rhint said earlier, they should just make it "only assassin" :3
+1 Rhint, you share the assassins heart and soul xD

You shouldn't argue about this anymore... but sephiroso... you don't seem to understand this at all~

Edited by Mondaiji, 30 May 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[sephiroso]

I disagree. If I have to transform to some demonic dog, that means that I'm not controlling it, because I let his appearance take control of mine. Transformation means loss of control. If you control that power, you would be able to call for it without any transformation. The only thing you control is it's power it gives, the +30% STR and MS buff(maxed).

As for beastmasters:
[/color]

I want to highlight the word "bond". Forming a bond with the nature and utilizing the power of an animal and taking its form is "acceptance". It's another world. However, I didn't play beastmaster yet and just read about whats written about them on the playragnarok2 page. Correct me if I got it wrong~

I still prefer dancer/bard (¬､¬)
__

Like Rhint said earlier, they should just make it "only assassin" :3
+1 Rhint, you share the assassins heart and soul xD

You shouldn't argue about this anymore... but sephiroso... you don't seem to understand this at all~

i understand perfectly. Transforming is not the same as Possession. Maybe initially Assassins were possessed by this demon thing but they OVERCAME it. And as a result they are able to keep control when they use the form and get enhanced effects from the new form.

In anycase you're just trying to split hairs for the sake of splitting hairs. I get it if you don't like the way the form looks and still want to play the assassin class without gimping yourself i get that. They are working on a fix for it but to sit here and split hairs about the issue and claim others dont get it...