128 replies to this topic

[StygianBlade]

Healers as people are not entitled to help anyone, but ironically they're a support class so they're kind of a service class...

It's a conundrum as old as time, being an Everquest vet healer here I understand the problem entirely.

No matter what you say, being a healer is a service class, just like a tank.

I am a tank, and despite those who treat my class simply as a service, I can manage myself without dipping too far out of the grey area.

Tanks and Priests should not EXPECT full-parties, nor should they be entitled to anything.

However, it's not their job to start parties either, but they should do so more often just like any other class.

[Emelenzia]

Tanks and Priests should not EXPECT full-parties, nor should they be entitled to anything.

I see a lot of people throwing around the word Entitlement recently but it really doesnt imply to this situation. Sure it is short sided for anyone to expect a perfect party composition. Elitism exists in any game. Sure you can argue that healers have a mental entitlement of "people should treat me superior because I am offering them a service they need". But the wish to join a party that is complete has nothing to do with "demanding to be treated as a superior".

Edited by Emelenzia, 13 May 2013 - 12:05 AM.

[Tkwan]

Again, they have the right to turn you down if they please. Maybe they don't think you'll be able to get the other roles filled. Maybe they're looking to party with specific people, or just a particular make up of classes. They don't have to party with you just because you spammed them with an invite.

On this note, I tank, and as such, I form parties myself generally when I feel like dungeoning. I use the 606 raidcall thats been advertised here and get parties fairly quickly.

Now I said all that so I can say this.

or just a particular make up of classes

During dungeon runs, I try not to invite doubles of classes. It leads to better party rounding, and happier looter. That is except when theres no monk/beastmaster/knight in the freaking party, seriously I see so much of this I want to puke. Monk gear is the worst offender, followed by beastmaster, and then knights. I hardly see wizard or priest gear ever drop. On that note, loot table rates need to be checked for balance. Or ideally, only drop gears of classes actually present


Loot tables aren't an issue so much in other games because they aren't dropping offensive and defensive of half the classes in the game. Here, that makes for at least 17 different possible drops (counting rangers quiver). Considering only 5 of the 17 will actually be present, and you'll generally only see 2-3 pieces of gear per boss. 1 of those pieces of gear could possibly be your class, thats a 1 in 17 chance, a 5% chance that your specific piece of gear will drop. Seriously, lets get some loot table revision in here to at least only drop gear for classes present in the instance. I have never called for this in any game, but having to run something 20+ times for One piece of gear for lesser dropped classes should Not happen. I feel sorry for all the priests and wizards out there.


/end hijack

[StygianBlade]

I see a lot of people throwing around the word Entitlement recently but it really doesnt imply to this situation. Sure it is short sided for anyone to expect a perfect party composition. Elitism exists in any game. Sure you can argue that healers have a mental entitlement of "people should treat me superior because I am offering them a service they need". But the wish to join a party that is complete has nothing to do with "demanding to be treated as a superior".

I shouldn't need to specify that not every priest has a superiority complex or a party-value ego. To top this off, I don't know too many players who act this way, but the few who do are rather sad.

[Emelenzia]

I shouldn't need to specify that not every priest has a superiority complex or a party-value ego. To top this off, I don't know too many players who act this way, but the few who do are rather sad.

Yep I just wanted to make the point there wasnt a direct correlation of what OP mentions and entitlement. In general I am finding RO2 community to be extremely friendly and the least elitist I have found in awhile. But that could simply be my select experience.

[Scott]

On this note, I tank, and as such, I form parties myself generally when I feel like dungeoning. I use the 606 raidcall thats been advertised here and get parties fairly quickly.

606 Raidcall? What is that?

[StygianBlade]

It's definitely your select experience. I've found a few snoody players who think they're a cut above the rest because they simply exist. Let's not forget people who try to take over tactical direction of dungeons when nobody asks them.

For the most part most of the players a chatspeaking braindead MMO monkeys...

Maybe I'm harsh but this is 2013 and there's no reason people need to be lazy with TYPING. Something made for fast, efficient LAZY communication.

[Gatcha]

Playing as Rogue in every single game.
Never was been invited to any party or raid.
Allways take the lead all of them

Edited by Gatcha, 13 May 2013 - 12:23 AM.

[Emelenzia]

Maybe I'm harsh but this is 2013 and there's no reason people need to be lazy with TYPING. Something made for fast, efficient LAZY communication.

Just remember this is iRO2, it isnt meant as a exclusively english based game. Some players really try hard to speak as best as they can so of course some minor grammar errors will pop up. I run a guild and I have members from all around the world. Although I have no right to ask you to be patient with these players, I would atleast like to point out because someone struggles with the english language doesnt make them slow, dumb, or a bad player.

Although I do get annoyed when people are lazy to be lazy. With a bunch of U, 2, EZ, r, or whatever dumb shortening of the english language. Its not cool or hip to intentionally have bad grammar -.-

Edited by Emelenzia, 13 May 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[Tkwan]

606 Raidcall? What is that?

6061865

Couldn't remember the rest of the numbers, and didn't want to look it up at the time.

[Owlsu]

I've seen the thing you're talking about in the first post, in soooooooooo many games that it's quite funny really.

Have you seen the opposite thing yet?

The thing where one person leaves the party because they have to go sleep etc, then a second person silently leaves...then the third goes because the second went...then another one says they have to go..and you're just standing there all alone.

Edited by Owlsu, 13 May 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Melony]

Or people playing priest just think they are a god and we must offer them the parties done even de drop for them (i found a priest with conditions, we had to give him all green drops)
Really, some priests thinks the are gods, and we have to pray them...

This sounds like an extremely isolated issue. I wouldn't agree to those terms, you do not have to accept that kind of behavior no more than they have to play with you.

[Nitro]

The real problem is people don't know how to press the N key and use party finder properly. Flooding it with loads of 1 person "parties" is a bad idea. Instead, form a group and say what you need instead. DPS are going to join parties that say "need DPS" and healers are going to join parties that say "Need healer" for the dungeon they run. I saw a lot of 1 person parties getting no action last night, but was quick to join groups which stated the roles they needed in party finder.

TLDR; Missing someone? Press N and put your party in the list. Looking for party? Press N and find a party that says "Need <insert role here>" and good to go!

[Riyk]

I get where you are coming from. I am still leveling atm, (currently level 22) I am avoiding the dungeon quests because by the time a party is formed and the dungeon is completed, I would have made more experience doing multiple quests during the same time frame.

[ODKN]

Most healers are just "pocket Healers" and only play with certain people anyhow.

[Nitro]

If you don't help the baby acos during the questing, then you will be like many DPS sitting waiting for priests to show up at dungeons. In the end, I shelved mine because it was painful leveling and a ton just reject party invites for whatever reason on my aco. I'll probably get back to the healer eventually...

[Vashh]

Just fix the damm dungeon finder, i'm sick (actually not playing since i got bored of spamming the find party channel) because +30lvl dungeon requires at least 4-5 hours if you're DPS (Range dps are excluded)

[HoshiRaidon]

As a priest I personally don't leave half formed parties. I'll either join any party or create my own. The only ones that I don't accept like everyone else said are those that are just like, "Hey look a priest lets invite him and not say a word!"

[Skize]

Most healers are just "pocket Healers" and only play with certain people anyhow.

Lol that is true to an extent. There are quite a number of people I know that are couples so they stick to themselves really.

The real problem is people don't know how to press the N key and use party finder properly. Flooding it with loads of 1 person "parties" is a bad idea. Instead, form a group and say what you need instead. DPS are going to join parties that say "need DPS" and healers are going to join parties that say "Need healer" for the dungeon they run. I saw a lot of 1 person parties getting no action last night, but was quick to join groups which stated the roles they needed in party finder.

TLDR; Missing someone? Press N and put your party in the list. Looking for party? Press N and find a party that says "Need <insert role here>" and good to go!

Lol, that's how I find most of my parties!
To be honest, I find that parties already formed and listed via "N" much more reliable.

[raela]

Just fix the damm dungeon finder, i'm sick (actually not playing since i got bored of spamming the find party channel) because +30lvl dungeon requires at least 4-5 hours if you're DPS (Range dps are excluded)

I play DPS and haven't had it take *that* long. :/ Search the party listens and whisper any potential fits, then post an ad saying you're looking yourself, then go to populated channels and see if anyone's sitting around outside looking for DPS, then maybe check the party chat (do *not* spam, whisper if you see DPS needed, put 1 request in yourself). If I don't find a party from that, I go work on some kharas until someone contacts me based on the find party tab.

I've been able to get into several different parties from every dungeon up to where I am now (Verta Delta) to complete kharas. I don't think it's ever taken over an hour (or close to that), as long as I'm looking in the evening.

[Aeynia]

Most healers are just "pocket Healers" and only play with certain people anyhow.

Probably because leveling solo as FS Priest is a chore and a half.

That and no one ever realizes that Sorcerers can, in fact, heal.

[Tsukura]

Probably because leveling solo as FS Priest is a chore and a half.

That and no one ever realizes that Sorcerers can, in fact, heal.

I haven't seen any full support sorcerers yet due to the fact I am a priest. But I have heard that they aren't nearly as strong as priests. However, I'll take a DPS Sorc who has healing capabilities anytime in my group to help out when needed.

It's definitely your select experience. I've found a few snoody players who think they're a cut above the rest because they simply exist. Let's not forget people who try to take over tactical direction of dungeons when nobody asks them.

For the most part most of the players a chatspeaking braindead MMO monkeys...

Maybe I'm harsh but this is 2013 and there's no reason people need to be lazy with TYPING. Something made for fast, efficient LAZY communication.

I don't mind typing. please do not make the mistake that I do. But there is nothing wrong with vocal communication. It's faster, easier, and allows keyboard use to still function in combat. That being said, it's not lazy to use voice communication. It's more efficient if used properly.


And in any case! You should NEVER generalize an entire class or people in any matter based on your experience with one person or a few. I can tell you right now that plenty people who play priests or healing sorcerers are not the rude people you met. The people you met are selfish and will suffer in their pride long term by being stuck alone in the end. Please choose to focus your distaste for people as who they are, not whom they represent.

Everyone is different. That being said, people should be held responsible for their own actions. It is improper to blame the group.

Edited by Tsukura, 13 May 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[NiaAdha]

maybe it's because you're a rogue? -.-

i dont mean to be selfish, but if a rogue/sin invites me into their party, and see only him/her, i will be like "i'm healing a tanking rogue?this will go nowhere."
there's no guarantee you'll be having a tank.

my advice, in case something like this happen, just go on next quest. come back when you're a bit over-levelled.
if you're on izrude cave, you only need sea stone to go to next quest. considering thief skill, that's like super-easy. (been a rogue in past server, but couldnt go on because lacking people to party)
for any dungeon, its perfectly fine to skip.

[NiaAdha]

/hijack

When I was in lv14++ and levelling up, there's a thief ask me to party him.
I did, since levelling as an aco sucks big time.
When he did finish his khara, he quits. I have some blue horn rackuf left.

That is RUDE.
Little did he know its hard teaming up with a squishy thief and its tendecy to appear here and there.

We were not really wanted.
When people are levelling, having a priest only makes them level up slower. shared exp.
We were only wanted when it comes to dungeon.
That sucks. :\

/end of ranting

[Tsukura]

/hijack

When I was in lv14++ and levelling up, there's a thief ask me to party him.
I did, since levelling as an aco sucks big time.
When he did finish his khara, he quits. I have some blue horn rackuf left.

That is RUDE.
Little did he know its hard teaming up with a squishy thief and its tendecy to appear here and there.

We were not really wanted.
When people are levelling, having a priest only makes them level up slower. shared exp.
We were only wanted when it comes to dungeon.
That sucks. :\

/end of ranting

I feel sorry for the way they treated you seeing as that is no way to treat someone. It is definitely not the right way to treat someone who is dedicated to helping other people when the game is already stacked against them in terms of fighting monsters. I can say that I've been treated this way.. RO2 being one of the most memorable where I power leveled everyone. But no one stepped up to level my classes.

I'm not saying healers should be handed things and should demand respect.. But think of how much hard work a healer has to put into leveling when they do significantly less damage, and they have less defense than you. If you see a healer struggling with something, or anyone struggling with something. You should always offer to help. And stick around if you have time to help them finish their task.

And /hug for that person treating you that way. That is just rude. ><