397 replies to this topic

[Turniper]

I feel like Cruel Bite is put in the game very late.. Or that there was a bit of miscomunication about it...

The description of the skills is something completely different.. I would understand that the heal would not occur if the attack was missed and it was a LEECH like the discription says.. But its not a leech... If it was a leech it would heal 50-150hp .. but it just heals 10% hp ( like 1.2k hp or whatever EVERY TIME) so I don't see why it could miss.. I agree on making the heal 100% but not the dmg.. 33% dmg unblockable dmg is really OP if you ask me..

 

I think that Brutal Strike "90%" dmg skill should be changed though ... I think it should be a single hit.. not two 45% hits that have halved chance of crit as opposed to a 90% hit ( two hits, less chance of both critting).. In colo i have much more succes of using cruel bites to KS then using brutal strike, When the brutal strike dmg registers the enemy is usually already dead...

 

And if you ask me .. Fury Strike is just as usueless as that recently buffed rogue skill.. Why isn't THAT getting buffed?

It seems like BMs in general didn't get much thought to be honest. >.>

When they put brutal strike in i imagine they though it was a powerful skill and gave it a cool animation without realizing that it's slow as hell making it hardly any better than fury strike.

 

From my personal experiences I have never been passed over as a Monk for a Knight or something for MT.

Even with AoD the higher def and HP of a monk plus the Defensive skills and ability to double up make them attractive as tanks. A Monk Knight combo would give you the best total defense for a Raid squad.

 

I agree 100% that endgame content needs some looking at and tweaking, but more so than that Monk needs AGI. If we had it you would see a real difference between some Monk builds.

 

Anyway I'm glad so many people are pitching in on this topic.

 

As for the Mod please keep this topic here. Aco board gets almost no traffic and this is a pretty big issue since Monk skills have never been fixed since the game was released.

Instead of adding agi why not make flee a permanent buff like defender and lower it to 10%? Monks are only really missing about 5% dodge and 10% crit rate from the agi that would be on their gear. The dodge boost from tank gear along with accessories, titles and buffs should still put them at at least 20% dodge and crit with full colo which doesn't sound bad considering they have the highest defense coupled with the second highest hp.

[Meconopsis]

Would you be offended if I moved this to the Acolyte class section?

I know it's not exactly in the right section, but this situation really needs light and traffic. Please keep it here just like the one rogue topic as monks really do need help.

Anyway, from what I've read since far - I think that the implementation of losing all 1st class skills is what made BM and monk so awkward. Notice how those two classes are the only two at the moment to lose everything for something new but honestly weak in many areas. Well, I can see that the developers did not fully explore these two classes as their design is flawed.

[SuperGlue]

The sad thing is, most of these suggestions have already been made in the past; and these were ignored.

Lets hope that they'll take notice of them now (unlikely.. But still..)

[DatMONKey]

Instead of adding agi why not make flee a permanent buff like defender and lower it to 10%? Monks are only really missing about 5% dodge and 10% crit rate from the agi that would be on their gear. The dodge boost from tank gear along with accessories, titles and buffs should still put them at at least 20% dodge and crit with full colo which doesn't sound bad considering they have the highest defense coupled with the second highest hp.

 

I think you need to recheck your numbers. The amount of AGI that gives 5% dodge gives 20% crit, not 10%. My numbers came from an assumption based on the same pattern that is in gear from class change.

Dodge from accessories is pretty miniscule. I have more dodge from going AGI wih some DPS armor and all DPS accessories than I ever did with full tank armor and accessories.

There is no reason for a critical stat to be tied to a skill you need to invest in and activate.

 

They goofed when the didn't give us any AGI, simple as that.

Before someone brings it up again Monk AGI situation is not comparable to the Battle Tactics thing.

 

Edited by DatMONKey, 01 September 2013 - 12:38 PM.

[VModSushi]

Please keep it here. It needs to be front and center.

I was actually hoping to drive more traffic to those sections. But okay ._.

[Turniper]

The amount of AGI that gives 5% dodge gives 20% crit, not 10%. My numbers came from an assumption based on the same pattern that is in gear from class change.

 

Actually one point in AGI gives 2 dodge and 4 crit and the translation from points to percentage is the same for every stat so 5% dodge = 10% if you're just looking at AGI. For a tank most of your dodge will come from having tank gear because the dodge it gives is much higher than what gear normally gives. Endgame accessories, titles, and runes all give you more AGI if you want the extra crit rate and dodge. What I think monk gear needs is more STR and INT to increase their parry rate and attack power. They're the only class that uses them equally yet their gear gives half the value for each as knight gear gives STR which is pretty crap.

Edited by Turniper, 01 September 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Vanillarox]

I was actually hoping to drive more traffic to those sections. But okay ._.

 

We have had Monk suggestions in there for months and I've not once seen any CM comment on anything there. I understand your intentions, but realistically, nothing we're saying is being taken seriously. We need more exposure. Very little people play Monks to begin with and the only fix I've ever seen is apparently the stun on Guillotine Fist which as far as I can tell is still useless.

 

The wind-up on our only burst skill is awful. We're so open to being kill stolen and attacked that it's embarrassing. Since the class is pretty much tank only, our lack of vigor makes the skill a joke. There is so much wrong with the Monk class and sadly only Assassins and Rogues seem to get any attention. I can't imagine the development time redoing all those animations for the Assassin class yet all we're asking for is some balance for the Monk class and we go unheard. It's very frustrating.

[DatMONKey]

Actually one point in AGI gives 2 dodge and 4 crit and the translation from points to percentage is the same for every stat so 5% dodge = 10% if you're just looking at AGI. For a tank most of your dodge will come from having tank gear because the dodge it gives is much higher than what gear normally gives. Endgame accessories, titles, and runes all give you more AGI if you want the extra crit rate and dodge. What I think monk gear needs is more STR and INT to increase their parry rate and attack power. They're the only class that uses them equally yet their gear gives half the value for each as knight gear gives STR which is pretty crap.

 

My bad, my calculating was off in my last post, however the amount of AGI a Monk should get is not far off from what I calculated. In terms of build mine would be closer to the extreme end on DPS since I've already accounted for over 200 points of AGI myself. An additional 200 would boost my damage to be comparable to other DPS classes. Once again my desire for AGI is not for dodge. I have a skill that already gives me a flat 20% (Though having more base AGI would give me better incentive to max that skill) Monks need the AGI for the crit to do more damage and generate more threat. It's as simple as that. As it stands right now once I get 4 more blue cards there is nothing else I can do to my character to increase my damage output outside of stacking buffs.

Increasing the base stats on our weapon would be nice, but without a base damage boost our scaling will still suffer. How much more STR and INT will I need on a weapon to make my damage comparable to a Knight Sword after 4 refinements? I will take more consistent crits on Heavy Tackle and GF over just about any other change they could introduce.

On Parry, we have plenty of it. At full colo with Magic Knightage accessories and 2 DPS armor pieces I still have 50% Parry with no buffs.

[Meconopsis]

I fixed some of the original post, added bits and tried to make it a bit clearer.

 

I will try to view some of the buried posts about monk and try to fit that into my original post later.

[ZT0100]

Hahaha, a monk is zero threat to me. They really need to buff this class.

[Leinzan]

up to now I've been in fights with 2 very strong monks!

they are really rare to find, but making them stronger would be awesome!!

[Snowberries01]

Some of Monk's skills revamp that I think would be nice:

 

Lightning Walk/Crush - Hit 5 Targets and gives all targets the Lightning Debuff(The one Mermaid and Chonchon uses).

*This gives Monks a DoT and a Speed Debuff, and simple to inplant in the game.

 

Flee - Becomes a party buff, increasing speed and dodge by 10% each at 5/5.

*Its own name says it all.

*Helps with gap between melee and range.

 

We can debate upon the duration of Flee; 10s, 30s, 30min?

 

Edited by Snowberries01, 02 September 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[U2v85]

I do not understand who complain always see monks last arena in separate rounds that
do much damage and resist too do not see what's wrong with them.

Edited by U2v85, 02 September 2013 - 12:15 PM.

[NuwaChan]

I do not understand who complain always see monks last arena in separate rounds that
do much damage and resist too do not see what's wrong with them.

 

 

Idealy in colo with poring buff, and a crit on a GF monks can do over 9k hp. Unfortunately with no agi on gear

monks have a low crit %.  Also GF misses a lot, and the stun is useless.

 

A solution to this is change wis to agi on all monk gear, and Increase the stun / knockdown on GF.

 

 

 

 

Many of the Monks here say they have gear issues late game, Here is a example of the gear differences:

Honor Knightage Defend Chain Mail

Armor » Heavy Armor » Heavy Armor Top

Requirements

Level: 50

Gender: unisex

Job: Warrior

Properties

Price 37419 (buy), 3742 (sell)

2 Sockets

1 piece stackable

Durability 100.00%

Droppable

Depositable

Destructable

Sellable

Tradable

Composable

STR: 118.0 (59.0)

DEX: 13.0 (6.5)

WIL: 31.0 (15.5)

VIT: 119.0 (59.5)

Defense power: 297.0 (148.5)

Evade level: 76.0 (38.0)

Guard level: 38.0 (19.0)

: 346.0 (173.0)

 

 

Honor Knightage Defend Breastplate

Armor » Heavy Armor » Heavy Armor Top

Requirements

Level: 50

Gender: unisex

Job: Knight

Properties

Price 37419 (buy), 3742 (sell)

2 Sockets

1 piece stackable

Durability 100.00%

Droppable

Depositable

Destructable

Sellable

Tradable

Composable

STR: 118.0 (59.0)

DEX: 13.0 (6.5)

WIL: 31.0 (15.5)

VIT: 119.0 (59.5)

Defense power: 297.0 (148.5)

Evade level: 76.0 (38.0)

Guard level: 38.0 (19.0)

: 346.0 (173.0)

 

 

Honor Knightage Defend Uniform Top

Armor » Cloth » Cloth Top

Requirements

Level: 50

Gender: unisex

Job: Monk

Properties

Price 37419 (buy), 3742 (sell)

2 Sockets

1 piece stackable

Durability 100.00%

Droppable

Depositable

Destructable

Sellable

Tradable

Composable

STR: 55.0 (27.5)

INT: 55.0 (27.5)

WIL: 31.0 (15.5)

VIT: 119.0 (59.5)

Defense power: 148.0 (74.0)

Evade level: 76.0 (38.0)

Guard level: 38.0 (19.0)

: 346.0 (173.0)

 

 

Edited by NuwaChan, 02 September 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Rukaroa]

A solution to this is change wis to agi on all monk gear, and Increase the stun / knockdown on GF.

 

We say WIS is useless to invest in, but in a raid, you will want to have a lot of buffer that comes from equips and cards. The base SP for any class is 100. That's what you start with at lv1 and it NEVER increases naturally unlike HP. To switch all WIS to AGI would make a Colo geared monk lose 1610 SP. With blue cards and title, you're left with 700 SP or less. You'll be using quite a bit of SP in raids. You can say "pack blue pots", but that gets expensive really fast on top of the other pots you may be using.

 

What I'm trying to get at is that it may not be such a good idea to go that route. You need a healthy SP pool no matter what class you are for extended periods.

Edited by Rukaroa, 02 September 2013 - 04:54 PM.

[NuwaChan]

One thing I did notice when looking at raid and colo gear for monks, is that monk weapons have about 300 to 400 less patk

than knights and warriors.

[SuperGlue]

One thing I did notice when looking at raid and colo gear for monks, is that monk weapons have about 300 to 400 less patk
than knights and warriors.

That's because half of their attack comes from Int isn't it?

[DatMONKey]

@ Nuwachan
VIT and WIS are uniform across all tanks if not all class gear in the same tier. As I said before the lack of AGI is a bit more difficult than just replacing a stat on gear. The amount we are missing is supposed to scale appropriately in comparison to the other tank classes.

@Superglue
Look more carefully. Knight has more STR than Monk's combined STR/INT AND more base ATK on their weapon. I did not check out the actual scaled difference on the weapons but I will say that it's almost 300 more ATK difference on the colo weapons at level 0.

On that note I wouldn't be surprised if PATK is somehow determined solely on STR stat on a weapon. It would explain some things.

[Meconopsis]

Like I said before, monk are way too dependent on percentages.

If their gear gets a small increment, their stats explode. But if their gear was initially low, then they suffer because of how percentage boosts work.

50% from Iron Body. Defense.
200% from Steel Body. Defense.
35% from Steel Body. Health.
30% for Fury Explosion. Physical Attack.
-10% from Steel Body. Physical Attack.
10% from Throw Spirit Sphere. Physical Skills.

I can toss in Flee also but that's more for the lack of AGI subject.

Also, because monks are obviously forced to be under a constant -10% Physical Attack, gear scaling STR and INT will be sceptical number-wise.

Even though monks have the fastest tank auto attack speed... Their lack of DoT makes up for faster attacks but...

[DatMONKey]

I've never felt gimped bt the damage reduction from Steel Body. The benefits are so good that I have never taken the buff off except to show people what it looks like and check my hp.
I honestly believe giving us our crit will solve all of our damage issues. Critting on HT and GF will solve any threat issues and put us on par with BT knights and wars.

[zJuliusx]

up to now I've been in fights with 2 very strong monks!
they are really rare to find, but making them stronger would be awesome!!

What class are you? Have u battled a Monk before? They do need a buff lol. GF does like 2 - 3k, but it is really unreliable.. From what I am hearing also there defense stats are in the low.

[Vanillarox]

What class are you? Have u battled a Monk before? They do need a buff lol. GF does like 2 - 3k, but it is really unreliable.. From what I am hearing also there defense stats are in the low.

 

Monks have the highest defense stat out of all the tanks. That's their main appeal. Steel Boy adds a lot.

[NuwaChan]

Not sure if anyone had mentioned it but with a monks matk they should have healing pet, like Assassin Elder or WIllow Worker.

Mermaid works well too for Slow and DOT

[Meconopsis]

What class are you? Have u battled a Monk before? They do need a buff lol. GF does like 2 - 3k, but it is really unreliable.. From what I am hearing also there defense stats are in the low.

Their defense is one of their biggest pros.

A near 250% defense increase makes even the smallest defense gear upgrade pretty big.

 

In fact, I just won Colo today thanks to my defense eating Sorc's VS as if they tickled. Although surviving is easy... the KS part was kinda rough.

Edited by Meconopsis, 03 September 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[zJuliusx]

Monks have the highest defense stat out of all the tanks. That's their main appeal. Steel Boy adds a lot.

 

Their defense is one of their biggest pros.

A near 250% defense increase makes even the smallest defense gear upgrade pretty big.

 

In fact, I just won Colo today thanks to my defense eating Sorc's VS as if they tickled. Although surviving is easy... the KS part was kinda rough.

 

 

Was talking about Dodge/Parry. If you can't get hit, then you won't take damage.

Edited by zJuliusx, 03 September 2013 - 03:59 PM.